So what is Hubert's system?

[al would]

I've been reading through the portal stuff and all the btching about last season, and I might as well throw in the season before that, and the total disasters they were, and as we move forward it seems a good bit of the critique has been over the offensive/defensive schemes Hubert did. or did not, try. And then I got in a bit of a disagreement with @gary-7 (whom I respect as a devotee of DES) over one of his game summaries where he sort of called out the crappy game plan without calling out the coach. With that being said what do you guys think Huberts "system" really is and how will it attract these free agents and why will it appeal to some very talented existing roster players to get them to return?

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

See what happens each possession and hope we can get in transition.

There is no plan.

Having big men be decision makers instead of scorers and rebounders doesn't help either.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

Obviously Quick transition break stuff but I guess more or less you are talking about what are they doing in a half court set

Well it’s an NBA ISO
They bring the big to the top of the key to draw the defender out to create space and he is basically the guy you hand the ball to and get it back and create

If the big at the top could create or shoot it would really work but since it didn’t you saw a whole lot of dribbling and very difficult shot attempts

Late season Lubin did a pretty good job of either faking the hand off and creating or Rolling and going to the basket for Dunks and lay ups

The flawed Roster made it way more difficult than it could be I mean it was 6 foot guards one on one trying to get shots off

 

[JimmyinVA]

dean smith's approach to coaching was a structured and detailed system although he might change it somewhat each year to match the personnel. roy's approach was unstructured -- not much of a system, relying on recruiting and talent to overpower opponents. hubert? seems more like roy, but without the top level talent.

 

[gary-7]

I've been reading through the portal stuff and all the btching about last season, and I might as well throw in the season before that, and the total disasters they were, and as we move forward it seems a good bit of the critique has been over the offensive/defensive schemes Hubert did. or did not, try. And then I got in a bit of a disagreement with @gary-7 (whom I respect as a devotee of DES) over one of his game summaries where he sort of called out the crappy game plan without calling out the coach. With that being said what do you guys think Huberts "system" really is and how will it attract these free agents and why will it appeal to some very talented existing roster players to get them to return?

Well, calling out a game-plan pretty much means calling out the coach(es), right?...😏,
but yeah, Hubert's "system" is the elephant in the room, and TBH, an elephant that has dropped a big ol' deuce on the living room floor.

If the EC debacle (and that is precisely what it is) has the effect of airing that out, then maybe something has been accomplished at least, that is, if it forces a reset. As troubling as the self-defeating restrictions he put on Eliot were, as I said in that thread, the frustration was roster-wide.

The Carolina Basketball "brand" still has some cachet, but what we can sell to players in the film room is getting pretty sketchy.

The fix is easily at hand and that starts with realizing that the Dean/Roy transition game is even more important in the short shot-clock era then it was when it was invented, and then realizing that there are offensive triggers other than ball-screens.

 

[Archer2]

TBH, I still can’t discern WTH Hubert is running. But I can see that it looks like a hot mess.

 

[al would]

Well, calling out a game-plan pretty much means calling out the coach(es), right?...😏,
but yeah, Hubert's "system" is the elephant in the room, and TBH, an elephant that has dropped a big ol' deuce on the living room floor.

If the EC debacle (and that is precisely what it is) has the effect of airing that out, then maybe something has been accomplished at least, that is, if it forces a reset. As troubling as the self-defeating restrictions he put on Eliot were, as I said in that thread, the frustration was roster-wide.

The Carolina Basketball "brand" still has some cachet, but what we can sell to players in the film room is getting pretty sketchy.

The fix is easily at hand and that starts with realizing that the Dean/Roy transition game is even more important in the short shot-clock era then it was when it was invented, and then realizing that there are offensive triggers other than ball-screens.

Then we are simpatico. And one of my biggest concerns over the past 2 seasons was the pg use, or lack of use, of ec and how that would affect recruiting top shelf pg's going forward especially since the traditional UNC system needs a great pg to make it work. I smelled ish when I saw ec getting benched last season in deference to RJ to close out the half's and other crucial situations where a quality pg and offensive scheme could have won the close games.

 

[NathanFielder]

I’m going to focus more against games vs top 50 teams. They were really bad defensively against them and that makes sense. Against good teams, there are mismatches all over that favor the opponents. Whether its the bigs or bigger guards. It became a pattern that top 50 teams scored very easy against UNC. From there, they had to play different to get back into games. But their inability to guard was huge. And obviously having no consistent rim protection and a tiny backcourt didn’t help their defense.

The team turned out to be a 2PT dependent team that shot a lot of 2PT jump shots. And going into the season, anyone can see they needed to take and make a lot of 3s to get the most out of their offense.

I viewed the offense more as a high ball screen then rely on Cadeau or RJ to draw and then kick to a corner shooter. It worked well against terrible teams that couldnt stop the initial penetration. It didn’t work against good defenses where they usually had backcourt size to neutralize UNC’s guards ability to penetrate. Or, high ball screen, if you get a switch then throw it in the post.

I think it’s hard to have a solid scheme when you don’t have bigs that can trigger the offense. You can’t trust Withers to trigger anything through the elbow or high post. And Lubin is more of a catch and finish big opposed to a skilled big.

 

[al would]

TBH, I still can’t discern WTH Hubert is running. But I can see that it looks like a hot mess.

That's why I posted the thread. I have yet to make sense out of much of anything he (hubs) does either on or off the court.

 

[al would]

They say nice guys finish last. There may be some truth to that in this case.

 

[Ozheelfan]

The only time Hubert’s game plan worked was in the FF run…. He had RJ walk the ball up, he had Manek back cutting and shooting, he had Caleb shooting lights out and he had Mando scoring down low.
It wasn’t a game plan, he excelled with Roy’s team… as soon as he had his own roster, a flawed roster, he couldn’t use the pieces properly.
Hubert seems like a really nice guy, he just ain’t a HC

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

The only time Hubert’s game plan worked was in the FF run…. He had RJ walk the ball up, he had Manek back cutting and shooting, he had Caleb shooting lights out and he had Mando scoring down low.
It wasn’t a game plan, he excelled with Roy’s team… as soon as he had his own roster, a flawed roster, he couldn’t use the pieces properly.
Hubert seems like a really nice guy, he just ain’t a HC

Unrealistic shooting. You saw what happened when we had to rely on something else.

 

[gobblercalls]

Do any of the assistants have any experience with whatever this mess is they're supposed to be running?

 

[Old_School59]

TBH, I still can’t discern WTH Hubert is running. But I can see that it looks like a hot mess.

This!

 

[al would]

Do any of the assistants have any experience with whatever this mess is they're supposed to be running?

I don't actually think they knew what they're supposed to be running on any given possession tbh.

 

[gary-7]

I don't actually think they knew what they're supposed to be running on any given possession tbh.

While that is an exaggeration at first glance, in some ways it is not... and I will leave it at that.

 

[Archer2]

Hiring
Unqualified
Besties
Equals
Real
Trouble

 

[sctarheel30]

I’ve already addressed this previously. His system is to get down by 20+ points early, fight like crazy to come back so it looks good to everyone only to run outta time and gas and ultimately lose the game. Then talk about how proud he is to be their coach and watch them fight. Why not have them ready from the tip and come out fighting and just maybe you win by 20+. Just a thought idk it may work.

 

[heels05champs]

We’ve all been asking this question. Who the heck knows what this staff is trying to do but for certain it looks like ymca pickup ball.

As much as I love the program, I could never suggest my kid go there under this regime.

What I do know is that this “system” produces double digit losses every season and huge deficits in games.

We’ve got a nepotistic hired head coach and a buddy system staff which inevitably will give all of them more time than they probably deserve.

 

[Kool1234567]

Live by the 3 and die by the 3….

 

[DrJaaay]

I have no confidence that HD will get us the win in close games. And now I can't watch a player develop (not HD's fault). It's not much fun anymore. I'll continue to pull for all things Carolina, but BBall isn't what it used to be. Sad. Go Heels!!!!!

 

[DSouthr]

LOL, his system? HE IS Trying to run on the offensive end a 4 out isolation with his center setting a high screen around and even beyond the arch. Looked like late season he added the pick & roll with the center. This has 2 fatal flaws, first you need 4 knock down shooters and centers that great screens and flexability to rol down quickly and with good hands. Flaw is you must have 4 knock down shooter on the floor that not only can shoot but have the ability to drive the close outs. That depends on talent evaluation and I do not think this staff is solid at talent evaluation of our own players or the opposing players.

Defensively, we are looking to switch 4 which is having the effect of a weird box & 1 with your center playing drop at times and other times not? The flaw there is it depends on pristine communication, great block outs well away from the basket crashing the defensive boards with 3 guys. The flaw is miss one switch and someone pops wide open for a look and we missed switches consistently. It is to complicated, to many moving parts, needs to be simplified.

To me it is a really poor concept on both ends and we execute it really poorly. It is to dependent on having great talent that has size advantage and we don't have that. You must fit your approach to your talent rather than you talent to your approach. means the coach has to bring in guys to fit the approach he wants and Hubert has not done this. It makes no sense, for example, to put guys in position that requires them to play to the weakest part of their game, far to many example available of just this, Both offensive and defensive approaches are very flawed. We dramatically need both an offensive and defensive consults to show Hubert that his approaches are flawed for the college game and to show him more sensible approaches and better talent evaluation.

 

[DSouthr]

While that is an exaggeration at first glance, in some ways it is not... and I will leave it at that.

I saw a lot, way to much confusion in our players, just not sure defensively of what they were supposed to do and had them constantly a step behind. Many times, to my eyes, what looked like not putting in enough effort in was actually confusion more than being lazy. Even when they understood their roles the execution was horrid on both ends. It was a combination of poor teaching, size mismatches that were consistently against us, and awful execution.

This team was poorly prepared for the opening tip in way to many games. Now saying that, many folks assume I am talking about effort of the players, I am not. What I see is they simply are poorly prepared for what the other team is looking to do, little to no prep for the tendencies that the opposing teams has both as a team and as individual players combined with extremely poor execution. This team needed to take a full half far to many times to figure out how to play against the opponent that solid game prep would have had them ready to do from the tip.

 

[JimmyinVA]

...Why not have them ready from the tip and come out fighting...

that's the million dollar question. when the tv camera shows the team right before tipoff they're dancing and laughing and having fun. i presume that's to loosen them up, so they're relaxed, not nervous. do all teams do that? for the heels, it ain't working.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

Team was better when all coaching was off the table and it became a pick up game at the park with 5 guys playing with their hair on fire

Kind of answers most questions but before you even get credit for a comeback remember it’s difficult to play with a 20 point lead to begin with

 

[Old_School59]

LOL, his system? HE IS Trying to run on the offensive end a 4 out isolation with his center setting a high screen around and even beyond the arch. Looked like late season he added the pick & roll with the center. This has 2 fatal flaws, first you need 4 knock down shooters and centers that great screens and flexability to rol down quickly and with good hands. Flaw is you must have 4 knock down shooter on the floor that not only can shoot but have the ability to drive the close outs. That depends on talent evaluation and I do not think this staff is solid at talent evaluation of our own players or the opposing players.

Defensively, we are looking to switch 4 which is having the effect of a weird box & 1 with your center playing drop at times and other times not? The flaw there is it depends on pristine communication, great block outs well away from the basket crashing the defensive boards with 3 guys. The flaw is miss one switch and someone pops wide open for a look and we missed switches consistently. It is to complicated, to many moving parts, needs to be simplified.

To me it is a really poor concept on both ends and we execute it really poorly. It is to dependent on having great talent that has size advantage and we don't have that. You must fit your approach to your talent rather than you talent to your approach. means the coach has to bring in guys to fit the approach he wants and Hubert has not done this. It makes no sense, for example, to put guys in position that requires them to play to the weakest part of their game, far to many example available of just this, Both offensive and defensive approaches are very flawed. We dramatically need both an offensive and defensive consults to show Hubert that his approaches are flawed for the college game and to show him more sensible approaches and better talent evaluation.

If we need offensive and defensive consultants to show Herbert what needs to be done then he definitely does not need to be the head coach at the University of North Carolina.

 

[Archer2]

LOL, his system? HE IS Trying to run on the offensive end a 4 out isolation with his center setting a high screen around and even beyond the arch. Looked like late season he added the pick & roll with the center. This has 2 fatal flaws, first you need 4 knock down shooters and centers that great screens and flexability to rol down quickly and with good hands. Flaw is you must have 4 knock down shooter on the floor that not only can shoot but have the ability to drive the close outs. That depends on talent evaluation and I do not think this staff is solid at talent evaluation of our own players or the opposing players.

Defensively, we are looking to switch 4 which is having the effect of a weird box & 1 with your center playing drop at times and other times not? The flaw there is it depends on pristine communication, great block outs well away from the basket crashing the defensive boards with 3 guys. The flaw is miss one switch and someone pops wide open for a look and we missed switches consistently. It is to complicated, to many moving parts, needs to be simplified.

To me it is a really poor concept on both ends and we execute it really poorly. It is to dependent on having great talent that has size advantage and we don't have that. You must fit your approach to your talent rather than you talent to your approach. means the coach has to bring in guys to fit the approach he wants and Hubert has not done this. It makes no sense, for example, to put guys in position that requires them to play to the weakest part of their game, far to many example available of just this, Both offensive and defensive approaches are very flawed. We dramatically need both an offensive and defensive consults to show Hubert that his approaches are flawed for the college game and to show him more sensible approaches and better talent evaluation.

I saw a lot, way to much confusion in our players, just not sure defensively of what they were supposed to do and had them constantly a step behind. Many times, to my eyes, what looked like not putting in enough effort in was actually confusion more than being lazy. Even when they understood their roles the execution was horrid on both ends. It was a combination of poor teaching, size mismatches that were consistently against us, and awful execution.

This team was poorly prepared for the opening tip in way to many games. Now saying that, many folks assume I am talking about effort of the players, I am not. What I see is they simply are poorly prepared for what the other team is looking to do, little to no prep for the tendencies that the opposing teams has both as a team and as individual players combined with extremely poor execution. This team needed to take a full half far to many times to figure out how to play against the opponent that solid game prep would have had them ready to do from the tip.

You hit the nail on the head Dave. Both posts mirror my thoughts.

 

[gauchoheel]

That's why I posted the thread. I have yet to make sense out of much of anything he (hubs) does either on or off the court.

The offensive scheme is fine. We run lots of high pick and roll and dribble handoffs, which is a pretty standard pro-style offense. It's what teams like dook and KU run too, they've just done it with better players generally.

The offense was 15th last year in efficiency, which while not spectacular is quite solid. This year we played with a very flawed roster, and the results were correspondingly poor. We have one PG who can't shoot and is a turnover machine, an undersized shooting guard, a 3rd guard who can't do anything except in the half court, and little in the way of big man talent. What do you expect?

To me the problems for Hubert (in order of importance) are:

1. Recruiting players that fit poorly together (this is now the second year he's done this)
2. Poor late game management
3. Not recruiting as well as the very top teams. Mostly he has added talented guys though, but not landing an actual center this year was a real miss
4. Not a great defensive planner / coach
5. Poor initial game prep, slow starts

I'd be okay firing him, but personally I don't see offensive system as an issue.

 

[1heel4life]

You hit the nail on the head Dave. Both posts mirror my thoughts.

If we don`t get some athletes from the portal, It`ll be the same cluster F as this year.

 

[al would]

I'd be okay firing him, but personally I don't see offensive system as an issue.

Since a 4 out offensive scheme requires multiple players that shoot well from the outside, and Jwit was the only one that shot 3's over 40% and the overall team only shot 36% then I'd say that trying that specific offensive scheme was a problem for this team. jmo

 

[Mrs.Jeans15]

The offensive scheme is fine. We run lots of high pick and roll and dribble handoffs, which is a pretty standard pro-style offense. It's what teams like dook and KU run too, they've just done it with better players generally.

The offense was 15th last year in efficiency, which while not spectacular is quite solid. This year we played with a very flawed roster, and the results were correspondingly poor. We have one PG who can't shoot and is a turnover machine, an undersized shooting guard, a 3rd guard who can't do anything except in the half court, and little in the way of big man talent. What do you expect?

To me the problems for Hubert (in order of importance) are:

1. Recruiting players that fit poorly together (this is now the second year he's done this)
2. Poor late game management
3. Not recruiting as well as the very top teams. Mostly he has added talented guys though, but not landing an actual center this year was a real miss
4. Not a great defensive planner / coach
5. Poor initial game prep, slow starts

I'd be okay firing him, but personally I don't see offensive system as an issue.

The scheme requires high percentage shooting which leads to inconsistent play against good teams

It could improve if he gave the bigs more touches in the scheme. Which would help the defense and offensive rebounding.

And yes recruit better players.

 

[NathanFielder]

The offensive scheme is fine. We run lots of high pick and roll and dribble handoffs, which is a pretty standard pro-style offense. It's what teams like dook and KU run too, they've just done it with better players generally.

The offense was 15th last year in efficiency, which while not spectacular is quite solid. This year we played with a very flawed roster, and the results were correspondingly poor. We have one PG who can't shoot and is a turnover machine, an undersized shooting guard, a 3rd guard who can't do anything except in the half court, and little in the way of big man talent. What do you expect?

To me the problems for Hubert (in order of importance) are:

1. Recruiting players that fit poorly together (this is now the second year he's done this)
2. Poor late game management
3. Not recruiting as well as the very top teams. Mostly he has added talented guys though, but not landing an actual center this year was a real miss
4. Not a great defensive planner / coach
5. Poor initial game prep, slow starts

I'd be okay firing him, but personally I don't see offensive system as an issue.

To be honest, they were a bum slaying team. Against top 50 Bart Torvik teams (1-11):

92nd in adj offensive efficiency
101st in FT rate
230th in 3PT%

The top 15 offense was massively skewed by beating up on poor opponents and one awesome offensive performance against San Diego State.

The biggest key going into this season is getting a better starting 5. Whether it was: Cadeau/RJ/Seth/Withers/Washington, Cadeau/RJ/Seth/Powell/Washington, Cadeau/RJ/Jackson/Powell/Lubin, Cadeau/RJ/Powell/Withers/Lubin, all of the starting lineups showed the ability to get off to horrendous starts. So it's simple that they have to get a starting 5 that's better than what they had.

I do think they need to get back to offensive rebounding as a weapon. Hubert isn't a play designing savant and mainly hunts mismatches, followed by some kind of isolation (perimeter or the post). Assuming he isn't going to scheme points ATO or just in general on set plays, the team needs become elite on the offensive glass to mitigate some of that scheme disadvantage.

This past season's team could only beat really good teams if they made a lot of 3s. Next year's team has to be more layered.

 

[gauchoheel]

The scheme requires high percentage shooting which leads to inconsistent play against good teams

It could improve if he gave the bigs more touches in the scheme. Which would help the defense and offensive rebounding.

And yes recruit better players.

Which scheme doesn't require high percentage shooting? That's kind of fundamental to offense in 2025. And we shoot fewer threes than the average college team, so it's not like we were bombs way.

"It could improve if he gave the bigs more touches in the scheme"... What bigs? We had no inside bigs to speak of. Lubin is really just a pick and roll finisher, and Washington can give you some 15 footers but has no real post game.

I completely agree the team would be better with improved shooters and bigs. Those aren't scheme issues though, and I don't know of a scheme that would cover for all that.

 

[gauchoheel]

Since a 4 out offensive scheme requires multiple players that shoot well from the outside, and Jwit was the only one that shot 3's over 40% and the overall team only shot 36% then I'd say that trying that specific offensive scheme was a problem for this team. jmo

I don't think our team had a single good post player, so I'm not sure who you would've wanted as the two guys camped in the post. As I said in my last post, Lubin is really just a pick and roll finisher, and Washington can give you some 15 footers but has no real post game. I don't want either of them doing traditional post-ups very often.

As you mentioned, Withers was a good shooter this year, and is clumsy inside. So any team would have had him space the floor. Since he was our starting 4, who would you have even wanted to be inside with Lubin if we weren't going 4-out? Surely not Trimble, Jackson, Powell?!

This was just a very poorly constructed roster all things considered.

 

[HoopsCoach42]

It's supposed to be a 5-Out System, but good 5-Out Systems are predicated on North-South drives to the basket, good 3-point shooting, and scoring cuts to the basket, which we get none of. All of our penetrations, whether off ball screens, DHOs, or Iso, are all East-West. We rarely get penetrating cuts to the basket that collapse the defense. Think about the last time we scored on a backdoor. We're pretty good in transition off of turnovers, but transition offense significantly drops off on rebounded missed FGs, and is almost non-existent when the opponent scores. Our Transition Offense off an opponent FGM was best in the country year after year. Now, we get nothing. Lots of teams are successful running 5-Out, but they have the right personnel. We just don't have it, and it's not coming with the freshmen class that we're bringing in. With no portal commitments, it doesn't look promising to have a roster to do it next year, but I'm afraid nothing will change from the staff. I would expect the same things next year, just worse.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Whatever HD's half court set is .. it is easily predictable to opposing coaches.. If we don't score in the first 5 seconds of crossing half court.. we run the same set play...