Stats and stuff (BC game)...

[gary-7]

...and I lied, because this one is gonna be mostly about stuff.

- There was a lot not to like about today's game offensively and it showed over and over in the first half. Fortunately we were able to score 56 in the second, mostly by pounding the ball inside and attacking the offensive glass like we meant it (several tip-ins), and made our FTs

- on the other side, BC is what I call a "bumper-pool" offense, running constant screens off weaves out front and allowing their shooters to get a switch away from the man guarding them, and affording drive and kick-out opportunities. Speaking of which, I know it's tough for our perimeter guys in those situations. They are taught in "Shell" drills to step in the gap to help on drives, but with teams like this that aren't gonna beat you in the paint, I would like to see more emphasis on eschewing that automatic help and keeping contact with the kick-out shooters. The 3-ball kept them in the game (12/27), again, mostly on kick-outs.

- speaking of bumper-pool teams, I really would like to see us attack them more with scrambles. Their guys already had happy-feet and were prone to travelling, and some pressure I think would have sped that process up. I did like the Point Zone possession in the second half --- could've used more of that as well.

- Can't say enough about Theo's hustle plays, creating shots/FT ops on loose-ball situations. They were crucial.

- your real Player-of-the-game was again Kennedy Meeks. 20 and 9 and some strong defense and key plays. Maybe the best was disrupting a late first-half BC possession deflecting a pass then grabbing a strong rebound and making an aggressive lead outlet pass to JJ for a Fast Break lay-up.

- I was very disappointed to see us just fall asleep on a couple of their simple out-of-bounds plays. Sheesh.

- having 2 Steal-and-run-outs stopped by double-dribble calls? C'mon man. Players are allowed to "recover" tipped balls before they start a legal dribble.

- Tony still didn't quite look like himself. Hopefully he'll be back in stride as we go.

- I know Roy hammered the guys about not repeating the GaTech debacle, and we started strong... but our offense bogged down for much of the first half (more on that below).

- This is the issue that I'm most concerned with, and I've seen it rear it's head at times for a little while. You guys know how much I love Buckets, but he has gotten into a really bad habit of late of forcing plays that just aren't there. Look, we know Justin has an impressive offensive arsenal, but the strength of his game is that he can do so much off the pass. And he isn't just a catch-and-shoot guy, he's also a catch-and-create guy. However, what he is NOT is a create-off-the-dribble guy. More and more Justin is forcing drives on his own --- often early in the shot-clock --- and it seldom ends well. Yeah, he scored 22 but was 6/16 from the floor, and there were too many misses off of forced drives with no rebounders in position that resulted in empty possessions. More concerning is that those forces disrupt our continuity. There are too many possessions where Berry doesn't get the ball back after the initial pass, or when Kenny doesn't touch the ball at all. Also, post entries are often easier off reversals. We need to get back to making the extra pass. And when it's time to create on one's own that's JB's department (that late dagger-3 was text-book) or Theo's drive-and-draws. Here's the thing --- it's a fine line. With a player as talented as Buckets you want him to be aggressive, but you don't want him to turn into a black hole. I hope the coaches catch this when they're self-scouting and nip it because it could spell trouble down the road. I don't think it's about JJ being selfish, but more about not letting the possession breathe and trusting the extra pass.

Anyway, we got the win we should have. Schedule's only gonna get tougher in a couple of weeks. Gotta keep getting better!

 

[Tru Blu Tar Heel]

Spot on about Buckets. My 14 year old son has been calling him a black hole for the last couple of weeks and it is a legit name at the moment.

 

[gary-7]

Spot on about Buckets. My 14 year old son has been calling him a black hole for the last couple of weeks and it is a legit name at the moment.

Yep. I love how confident he has become on his catch-and-shoot 3s, and his catch-and-drives are hard to stop, but he doesn't need to be forcing drives into a set defense.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

100% spot on regarding Justin.

 

[Archer2]

I agree about JJ forcing things too much recently. I like that we made a concerted effort to go inside in the second half. We again missed a chance to put them away early. Got to learn to not allow teams to get up off the mat when we get them down.

 

[Archer2]

We kept leaving perimeter shooters open. Joel was often not within 10 feet of his man. Unacceptable.

 

[BillyL]

We kept leaving perimeter shooters open. Joel was often not within 10 feet of his man. Unacceptable.

Sorry to have to say that I agree with you here.

 

[al would]

Excellent observations about JJ. He needs to get in his head that he needs to be a PART of the offense .. and not THE offense. Way to many weapons for one
player to think they have to make it happen every play. Seemed like he was just pressing it a little to much today and tried to take the game to them as opposed
to letting the game come to him.

 

[soap - new and improved]

I agree about Jackson.

And Berry has had a mediocre overall game or 2 here lately. We are fortunate to win when he has been off. He has hit some big shots during crunch time, so credit there..

The travel and the double-dribble calls were ludicrous. Berry was fouled, and Williams did a crossover move to avoid a defender I have seen time and time again with no call.

Interestingly enough, even removing these two poor calls, there were more travels called in this game (on both teams) than I can remember for YEARS!. And most of them were correct calls by the rule book. But the refs also let a ton of shuffles etc. go uncalled (for both teams) that were just as bad as the travels they called.

Officiating is such a random event. They call what they want to, when they want to. We were fortunate today that they were calling fouls on big guys inside, otherwise we could have easily lost this game.

 

[Tru Blu Tar Heel]

Yep. I love how confident he has become on his catch-and-shoot 3s, and his catch-and-drives are hard to stop, but he doesn't need to be forcing drives into a set defense.

Exactly....and it seems like when he goes into hero-mode, the offense bogs down further and the rest of the team becomes spectators. Now, don't get me wrong, I do still think he should have the eternal green light to shoot, but his shot selection HAS to tighten up.

 

[CURRY2WOODYR80]

to me, when you have Hicks shooting over 60% from the floor and around 80% from the foul line you simply have to get him more than 5 shots in a game.

 

[coryfly]

Jackson and Berry need to shot whenever they choose, in a reasonable sense of course. Jackson has shot over 45% in 3 of the last five games, which is about where he (and Berry actually) has been all season. Heck, he has been over 50% from three in four of the last five games and some of those threes were forced. Jackson and Berry both can create for themselves off the dribble.

 

[gary-7]

Jackson and Berry need to shot whenever they choose, in a reasonable sense of course. Jackson has shot over 45% in 3 of the last five games, which is about where he (and Berry actually) has been all season. Heck, he has been over 50% from three in four of the last five games and some of those threes were forced. Jackson and Berry both can create for themselves off the dribble.

Jackson does not do well creating off the dribble. His game is moving without the ball and creating off the catch while the defense is still reacting.

 

[coryfly]

He is great moving without the ball and off the catch for sure. He does ok creating off the dribble as well though. He has made some huge shots for us creating off the dribble. The last thing we need is for him to lose that aggressiveness.

 

[Steat]

Win and advance...

 

[Archer2]

Win and advance...

In the grind that is the ACC, that's often what it amounts to Steat.

An interesting stat I came across. UNC has scored 85 points or more in six straight ACC games for the first time in school history. I was a little surprised to read that.

 

[DSouthr]

I had 2 concerns with that first half, of course it was about offense as 1 of them. I talked over the summer that while both Joel and Justin do need to lead the way scoring, what makes us extra special is balanced scoring. I think at times both Justin and Joel take some shots that have an extra degree of difficulty that is not really needed. Make the extra pass, when the defense closes to you make the extra pass rather than forcing the shot up. You drive in to the teeth of a zone and not make the extra pass you make things harder than they need to be. We have a bunch of guys on this team that will drain the wide open look and the wide open look is there for someone when you draw an extra defender.

Here is what makes no sense, Hicks got a total of 5 shots and made 4 of them, was 6 for 7 at the line, got 5 offensive rebounds and only played 19mins, finished the game with 2 fouls? This vs a team that he had a huge advantage scoring against, he could have scored at will if someone would have looked to get him the darn ball? Meeks was 9-16, Tony was 2 for 3 shooting, that is a combined 17-24 for our bigs. They went 9-11 from the foul line and yet the ball was not constantly pounded in to them? Said it before and will again, no excuse for Hicks not getting at least 10 shots a game and he should be getting 15 in most games, he is amazing efficient when he take shots and when he gets fouled he makes those to. Those long jumpers are a heck of a lot easier when the defense has to protect against the feeds inside to high efficient scorers like Hicks. And what the heck is with 19mins from Hicks when he finishes the game with a total of 2 fouls? Hicks got 6 shots, he got 5 offensive rebounds folks?

On defense, I lost count how many times I screamed the following, "get the ball out of Bowman's hands and do not let him get it back". Yet darn near every time i screamed that there was our guy defending Bowman helping out on someone else and Bowman gets the ball right back and splash? Drives me nutzs, hot shooter, don't let him get the freakin ball and he is not going to hurt ya but when you leave him he can get the ball and the shot?

When this team is balanced on offense between front to back court scoring we are deadly, as good if not better than any team in the country but when we get in to that 2 on 5 deal where only Justin or Joel are taking shots from way way out, we struggle. I am fine with them taking those shots when they get in to that groove and are making them, ride the hot hand by all means. But when they are not clicking hot, we have to not forget to get our front court guys shots to soften up those defenses and that makes those outside looks much cleaner.

It is shameful that Hicks only got 5 shots yesterday, should not be another game this season that he gets less than 10 shots...

One more concern, I love Joel and what he does for this team, really do but as one of our 2 main scoring threats defenses will fly at him, when he puts the ball on the floor defenses will commit to stopping him and yet yesterday he had as many assists as Wanda had? In 35mins not a single solitary assist, in 19mins Hicks had 4? Justin in 31mins only had 2 and defenses key on him as well? In a total of 66mins the 2 of them had half as many assists as our starting power forward did in 19mins? Sorry but when our starting UNC PG plays 35mins and does not get a single assist I have to worry about it.

 

[JimmyinVA]

I think at times both Justin and Joel take some shots that have an extra degree of difficulty that is not really needed. Make the extra pass, when the defense closes to you make the extra pass rather than forcing the shot up....One more concern, I love Joel and what he does for this team, really do but...when our starting UNC PG plays 35mins and does not get a single assist I have to worry about it.

zero assists in a high scoring game is a legitimate concern. joel is scoring well, but he is not playing point guard in the carolina tradition of a playmaker who looks for the open man, penetrates and makes our offense more fluid and difficult to guard, a guy who rewards his teammates for working hard to get open. we've always had a point guard who breaks up defenses with great passing and i think we'll need that to reach the final 4.

 

[gauchoheel]

We scored 90, so hard to complain much about the offense. I think JJ and Berry both forced a couple of shots. That's really the only nit to pick. Theo looks great. Meeks looks great.

On defense, if I were Roy I'd have told those guys not to help off of Bowman or Robinson. Maybe he did but the team didn't do a good enough job. I'd have let the rest of the team try to score rather than give those guys open 3's.

I'd also like to see B-Rob get 5-10 min if possible. Tough right now, things are logjammed because this team looks DEEP!!!

 

[Archer2]

I think at times both Justin and Joel take some shots that have an extra degree of difficulty that is not really needed. Make the extra pass, when the defense closes to you make the extra pass rather than forcing the shot up.

I agree.

Here is what makes no sense, Hicks got a total of 5 shots and made 4 of them, was 6 for 7 at the line, got 5 offensive rebounds and only played 19mins, finished the game with 2 fouls? This vs a team that he had a huge advantage scoring against, he could have scored at will if someone would have looked to get him the darn ball? Meeks was 9-16, Tony was 2 for 3 shooting, that is a combined 17-24 for our bigs. They went 9-11 from the foul line and yet the ball was not constantly pounded in to them? Said it before and will again, no excuse for Hicks not getting at least 10 shots a game and he should be getting 15 in most games, he is amazing efficient when he take shots and when he gets fouled he makes those to. Those long jumpers are a heck of a lot easier when the defense has to protect against the feeds inside to high efficient scorers like Hicks. And what the heck is with 19mins from Hicks when he finishes the game with a total of 2 fouls? Hicks got 6 shots, he got 5 offensive rebounds folks?

Amen!

On defense, I lost count how many times I screamed the following, "get the ball out of Bowman's hands and do not let him get it back". Yet darn near every time i screamed that there was our guy defending Bowman helping out on someone else and Bowman gets the ball right back and splash? Drives me nutzs, hot shooter, don't let him get the freakin ball and he is not going to hurt ya but when you leave him he can get the ball and the shot?

I was ranting about this the whole game. A couple of times Joel was in the lane and his man was spotting up behind the arc and knocking down a trey. No excuse for that. We have enough depth inside to let our bigs fend for themselves. Our losses have mainly come from teams raining treys all game long. If we can shore up our 3-pt defense, we can be a very good defensive team.

When this team is balanced on offense between front to back court scoring we are deadly, as good if not better than any team in the country but when we get in to that 2 on 5 deal where only Justin or Joel are taking shots from way way out, we struggle. I am fine with them taking those shots when they get in to that groove and are making them, ride the hot hand by all means. But when they are not clicking hot, we have to not forget to get our front court guys shots to soften up those defenses and that makes those outside looks much cleaner.

This is crucial, IMO. The things that separate us from most teams are our rebounding and scoring in the paint. We must never forget that.

In 35mins not a single solitary assist for Joel, in 19mins Hicks had 4? Justin in 31mins only had 2 and defenses key on him as well? In a total of 66mins the 2 of them had half as many assists as our starting power forward did in 19mins? Sorry but when our starting UNC PG plays 35mins and does not get a single assist I have to worry about it.

Yes, that simply shouldn't happen. The good thing is that when defenses key on Joel and JJ, as they did yesterday, we have others who can step up. We need to remember that as well. And despite only two assists between Joel and JJ, we had five players with at least two. Theo's return give us another very good passer.

Bottom line is I want our star players to take the majority of shots, Joel and JJ need to remember that they have efficient inside players that need to be fed early and often. We are still a work in progress. Roles are still being refined. If we remember that our bread is primarily buttered on the inside, as it has been for decades with Carolina basketball, we are a tough team to beat and have as good a chance to cut down the nets as anyone.

 

[gary-7]

zero assists in a high scoring game is a legitimate concern. joel is scoring well, but he is not playing point guard in the carolina tradition of a playmaker who looks for the open man, penetrates and makes our offense more fluid and difficult to guard, a guy who rewards his teammates for working hard to get open. we've always had a point guard who breaks up defenses with great passing and i think we'll need that to reach the final 4.

It's hard to do that when the ball's not getting back in his hands after the initial pass.

 

[trestyles]

He is great moving without the ball and off the catch for sure. He does ok creating off the dribble as well though. He has made some huge shots for us creating off the dribble. The last thing we need is for him to lose that aggressiveness.

THIS....bad shots come with being aggressive at times.

Some fans want it both ways...an aggressive alpha dog that don't take a lot of shots. Tell me where does that happen at.

 

[trestyles]

zero assists in a high scoring game is a legitimate concern. joel is scoring well, but he is not playing point guard in the carolina tradition of a playmaker who looks for the open man, penetrates and makes our offense more fluid and difficult to guard, a guy who rewards his teammates for working hard to get open. we've always had a point guard who breaks up defenses with great passing and i think we'll need that to reach the final 4.

He is a scoring point guard. You may want to forget about that tradition. Felton and white are both scoring point guards as well. Roy been recruiting those types since Paige sophomore season when he was a scoring point guard.

 

[Archer2]

He is a scoring point guard. You may want to forget about that tradition. Felton and white are both scoring point guards as well. Roy been recruiting those types since Paige sophomore season when he was a scoring point guard.

Correctimundo! He is doing what we need him to do. He's never going to put up huge assist numbers. But he runs the team, defends well, and makes big shots.

 

[Heelicious]

I think Luke Maye is taking way too many of Hicks minutes and shots. I know we've debated LM to death on this board. Don't want to do that again. But there is no denying that it is a serious step down in terms of athleticism, quickness, jumping ability. And scoring ability in the paint. Hicks just plays at a faster speed and smoother touch inside than Maye. And people that overpower and outquick Maye, Hicks can hold his own against. I didn't look but assume Maye had about as many minutes and shots as Hicks with less good to show for it.

Similar things could be said for Britt stealing pinsons minutes.

 

[gobblercalls]

We won a road game. Most of you will be glad next year that Maye got so many minutes this year.

 

[gary-7]

THIS....bad shots come with being aggressive at times.

Some fans want it both ways...an aggressive alpha dog that don't take a lot of shots. Tell me where does that happen at.

That"s true except JJ does not create well off the dribble. There is a huge difference when he drives off the catch vs trying to create something from triple threat position... that 1) isn't his game and 2) gums up our offense.
As you said in another post JB is a scoring PG and is the alpha with the green light to create when nothing else is happening on a possession, and is very adept at that. And it's not just his ability it is also the circumstances. He does it at the appropriate moments and when rebounders and/or potential pass recipients are in position. I don't think I've seen him take more than a couple of ill-advised shots since he's been here. Saturday he got hit pretty blatantly on 4 drives and got to the line once. There's nothing he can do about that (unless he starts using the dookie offensive flop).

Buckets is a great player but he's not an Iso guy.

 

[gary-7]

We won a road game. Most of you will be glad next year that Maye got so many minutes this year.

Yeah. Luke isn't taking anyone's shots. He's just playing within the system and working hard off the ball.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Roy is using the bench masterfully! We get to the dance with fresh bodies and hopefully no injuries and we in good dern shape! Thanks to Roy and his guidance.

 

[plm]

Have no problem with Maye's minutes but I wish Roy would be as vocal to him as he was to Jackie Manuel about what his strengths and weakness are. May is a tough matchup on the outside and is a great face up guy but his back to the basket game needs a lot of work.

 

[RP12]

0 assists for JB is weird for sure, but I have zero problem with how he runs things. We have rarely had a PG who was making the unbelievable pass for an immediate assist more often than just moving the ball to the appropriate spot. Cota and Marshall are really the outliers here rather than Felton and Berry.

 

[DSouthr]

That"s true except JJ does not create well off the dribble. There is a huge difference when he drives off the catch vs trying to create something from triple threat position... that 1) isn't his game and 2) gums up our offense.
As you said in another post JB is a scoring PG and is the alpha with the green light to create when nothing else is happening on a possession, and is very adept at that. And it's not just his ability it is also the circumstances. He does it at the appropriate moments and when rebounders and/or potential pass recipients are in position. I don't think I've seen him take more than a couple of ill-advised shots since he's been here. Saturday he got hit pretty blatantly on 4 drives and got to the line once. There's nothing he can do about that (unless he starts using the dookie offensive flop).

Buckets is a great player but he's not an Iso guy.

I guess maybe I am a odd kind of fello, gonna hear about that line later today in person I am sure . There is just some stuff I believe in, some stuff I want to see my Tar Heel players do. I want my 2 guards to be shooting threats, I love what Kenny has done for us over all this season but I need him to shoot the ball better. Doubt you will find a stronger advocate for kenny than I have been thru the summer or season but he does need to shoot the ball better.

I need my UNC PG, be he what you would call a score first PG or not, I still need my PG to Lead us in assists in most games. As much as I love what Joel has done for us this season, 1 total assist in the last 2 games combined ain't getting it done. Not for my starting PG that is logging in 30+ mins a game.

When we say things like when everything bogs down I want Berry to create, I can get on that train with you but I can't go as far as you will. Because another thing I am kinda funny about is I want my starting PG to be the guy that does not allow things to bog down. My PG is my old school QB, he calls most of the plays, he is the guy we look to that engages our offense. Now if we have guys that are not working thru that offense, then it is on the coach to get those guys out and get guys in that will, isn't that true?

If the offense is bogging down then I am gonna look at the PG on the floor first, I am gonna look at Joel, Nate, and 7th depending on who is on the floor, I am funny like that. One thing I do know is that of the ball goes sticky to a player then that offense can bog down quick. Guys trying to dominate our offense can gum it up, example JMM and the ball going in to him, not sure he ever really considered passing it back out. On this team, at times I would like to see Meeks kick it back out to a spot up shooter or look for the re-post, or the slip if he draws weak side double.

Kinda funny about this to, I love that Joel and Justin have made some big time hard shots for us, deep treys come to mind but I as well believe that some of those would be easier shots if they gave the pump fake and took a dribble or 2. You know, the defender flies by and all the sudden you have 4 on 5 and unless there is a big time double the pump fake gives you a wide open look. I will argue that I would like to see Justin for example pump fake and take a couple dribbles and let that defender fly by and out of the play. I would like to see our starting PG do the same or drive it to totally collapse the defense and find the open easy score by the finish or slip.

Tell what else I am kinda funny about, when the opposing team has a guy heated up and looking at a huge basket, I kinda want his primary defender to stay closer to him, get the ball out of his hands if he has it and don't let him get it back and if he does make sure it is not a wide open clean look he gets. I watched Monk go off for 47 on us, Kenny was pretty much our starter that got torched, felt he defended for the most part pretty well but he did help to much at times and gave to much space for that quick shooter. I saw my starting PG give a much lesser player than Monk way to much space yesterday and I saw that time and time again and the results were not good.

Another thing I am funny about, when I see my starting PG drive in to the teeth of a zone, I like that, but when 3 guys converge on ya I kinda think at least there are 2 wide open guys that have a much easier look at a finish? Such a thing would actually be considered an assist and it has this funny way of getting your big man rewarded. Theo seems to understand that but he is a wing isn't he.

I see things like Hicks getting 5 shots total in a game and hitting 4 of them and I question, I see my Starting PG with a single assist across the last 2 games and I question. I see Justin being called out for being a black hole for taking 16 shots and I wonder what the heck? I didn't notice Justin's primary defensive assignment torching us all game, I did see their opposing PG drill us for 30+.

My point is if we are going to critique guys then lets be fair about it, not play favorites. If Nate plays a bad game there is no hesitation to call him out, meeks struggles he is called out, lord knows Luke is called out even at times if he didn't have a tuff game. The last 2 games have not been great games from Joel, his bar is set high so more is expected than is of Nate or kenny or 7th or BRob. But none of those guys are our starting PGs either...

 

[JimmyinVA]

I guess maybe I am a odd kind of fello, gonna hear about that line later today in person I am sure . There is just some stuff I believe in, some stuff I want to see my Tar Heel players do. I want my 2 guards to be shooting threats, I love what Kenny has done for us over all this season but I need him to shoot the ball better. Doubt you will find a stronger advocate for kenny than I have been thru the summer or season but he does need to shoot the ball better.

I need my UNC PG, be he what you would call a score first PG or not, I still need my PG to Lead us in assists in most games. As much as I love what Joel has done for us this season, 1 total assist in the last 2 games combined ain't getting it done. Not for my starting PG that is logging in 30+ mins a game.

When we say things like when everything bogs down I want Berry to create, I can get on that train with you but I can't go as far as you will. Because another thing I am kinda funny about is I want my starting PG to be the guy that does not allow things to bog down. My PG is my old school QB, he calls most of the plays, he is the guy we look to that engages our offense. Now if we have guys that are not working thru that offense, then it is on the coach to get those guys out and get guys in that will, isn't that true?

If the offense is bogging down then I am gonna look at the PG on the floor first, I am gonna look at Joel, Nate, and 7th depending on who is on the floor, I am funny like that. One thing I do know is that of the ball goes sticky to a player then that offense can bog down quick. Guys trying to dominate our offense can gum it up, example JMM and the ball going in to him, not sure he ever really considered passing it back out. On this team, at times I would like to see Meeks kick it back out to a spot up shooter or look for the re-post, or the slip if he draws weak side double.

Kinda funny about this to, I love that Joel and Justin have made some big time hard shots for us, deep treys come to mind but I as well believe that some of those would be easier shots if they gave the pump fake and took a dribble or 2. You know, the defender flies by and all the sudden you have 4 on 5 and unless there is a big time double the pump fake gives you a wide open look. I will argue that I would like to see Justin for example pump fake and take a couple dribbles and let that defender fly by and out of the play. I would like to see our starting PG do the same or drive it to totally collapse the defense and find the open easy score by the finish or slip.

Tell what else I am kinda funny about, when the opposing team has a guy heated up and looking at a huge basket, I kinda want his primary defender to stay closer to him, get the ball out of his hands if he has it and don't let him get it back and if he does make sure it is not a wide open clean look he gets. I watched Monk go off for 47 on us, Kenny was pretty much our starter that got torched, felt he defended for the most part pretty well but he did help to much at times and gave to much space for that quick shooter. I saw my starting PG give a much lesser player than Monk way to much space yesterday and I saw that time and time again and the results were not good.

Another thing I am funny about, when I see my starting PG drive in to the teeth of a zone, I like that, but when 3 guys converge on ya I kinda think at least there are 2 wide open guys that have a much easier look at a finish? Such a thing would actually be considered an assist and it has this funny way of getting your big man rewarded. Theo seems to understand that but he is a wing isn't he.

I see things like Hicks getting 5 shots total in a game and hitting 4 of them and I question, I see my Starting PG with a single assist across the last 2 games and I question. I see Justin being called out for being a black hole for taking 16 shots and I wonder what the heck? I didn't notice Justin's primary defensive assignment torching us all game, I did see their opposing PG drill us for 30+.

My point is if we are going to critique guys then lets be fair about it, not play favorites. If Nate plays a bad game there is no hesitation to call him out, meeks struggles he is called out, lord knows Luke is called out even at times if he didn't have a tuff game. The last 2 games have not been great games from Joel, his bar is set high so more is expected than is of Nate or kenny or 7th or BRob. But none of those guys are our starting PGs either...

our team has a lot of talent and our offensive rebounding is winning games, but our offense has not been impressive even against less talented opposition. we can debate who is responsible for this selfish every man for himself style of offense, but this is not carolina basketball and will not win games vs athletic teams that play strong man-to-man defense.

 

[Archer2]

If the offense is bogging down then I am gonna look at the PG on the floor first, I am gonna look at Joel, Nate, and 7th depending on who is on the floor. One thing I do know is that if the ball goes sticky to a player then that offense can bog down quick. On this team, at times I would like to see Meeks kick it back out to a spot up shooter or look for the re-post, or the slip if he draws weak side double.

Tokoto and JMM are both examples of the ball sticking in a players hands too long. I think Nate is guilty of this sometimes as well, as is Kennedy. I did actually see Kennedy receive the ball in the post, kick it out, and then repost for an easier shot against BC. He needs to do that a little more. He missed the shot but it was a 5 foot baby hook, a very good look.

Kinda funny about this to, I love that Joel and Justin have made some big time hard shots for us, deep treys come to mind but I as well believe that some of those would be easier shots if they gave the pump fake and took a dribble or 2. You know, the defender flies by and all the sudden you have 4 on 5 and unless there is a big time double the pump fake gives you a wide open look. I will argue that I would like to see Justin for example pump fake and take a couple dribbles and let that defender fly by and out of the play. I would like to see our starting PG do the same or drive it to totally collapse the defense and find the open easy score by the finish or slip.

I agree. I'd also like to see our players use the pass fake to entice defenders to jump into the passing lane, giving us a man advantage, in effect.

Tell what else I am kinda funny about, when the opposing team has a guy heated up and looking at a huge basket, I kinda want his primary defender to stay closer to him, get the ball out of his hands if he has it and don't let him get it back and if he does make sure it is not a wide open clean look he gets. I watched Monk go off for 47 on us, Kenny was pretty much our starter that got torched, felt he defended for the most part pretty well but he did help to much at times and gave to much space for that quick shooter. I saw my starting PG give a much lesser player than Monk way to much space yesterday and I saw that time and time again and the results were not good.

Amen. Why we sag so far down on defense is a puzzle to me. Joel wasn't even in the same area code as his man at times, and his man torched us. No excuse for that. We have a four man rotation down low that is perfectly capable of defending the paint. There's a reason guys like Monk/Bowman/ and for some of you older guys, Dennis Scott/Randolph Childress have career highs against UNC. Give that much help against d00k and Kennard will have his career high.

I see things like Hicks getting 5 shots total in a game and hitting 4 of them and I question, I see my Starting PG with a single assist across the last 2 games and I question. I see Justin being called out for being a black hole for taking 16 shots and I wonder what the heck? I didn't notice Justin's primary defensive assignment torching us all game, I did see their opposing PG drill us for 30+.

NO excuse for that either. Isaiah and Kennedy both need more touches, especially Isaiah. I keep harping on it but our biggest strengths are rebounding and scoring points in the paint. I hope Roy stresses this every single day.

 

[gary-7]

I guess maybe I am a odd kind of fello, gonna hear about that line later today in person I am sure . There is just some stuff I believe in, some stuff I want to see my Tar Heel players do. I want my 2 guards to be shooting threats, I love what Kenny has done for us over all this season but I need him to shoot the ball better. Doubt you will find a stronger advocate for kenny than I have been thru the summer or season but he does need to shoot the ball better.

I need my UNC PG, be he what you would call a score first PG or not, I still need my PG to Lead us in assists in most games. As much as I love what Joel has done for us this season, 1 total assist in the last 2 games combined ain't getting it done. Not for my starting PG that is logging in 30+ mins a game.

When we say things like when everything bogs down I want Berry to create, I can get on that train with you but I can't go as far as you will. Because another thing I am kinda funny about is I want my starting PG to be the guy that does not allow things to bog down. My PG is my old school QB, he calls most of the plays, he is the guy we look to that engages our offense. Now if we have guys that are not working thru that offense, then it is on the coach to get those guys out and get guys in that will, isn't that true?

If the offense is bogging down then I am gonna look at the PG on the floor first, I am gonna look at Joel, Nate, and 7th depending on who is on the floor, I am funny like that. One thing I do know is that of the ball goes sticky to a player then that offense can bog down quick. Guys trying to dominate our offense can gum it up, example JMM and the ball going in to him, not sure he ever really considered passing it back out. On this team, at times I would like to see Meeks kick it back out to a spot up shooter or look for the re-post, or the slip if he draws weak side double.

Kinda funny about this to, I love that Joel and Justin have made some big time hard shots for us, deep treys come to mind but I as well believe that some of those would be easier shots if they gave the pump fake and took a dribble or 2. You know, the defender flies by and all the sudden you have 4 on 5 and unless there is a big time double the pump fake gives you a wide open look. I will argue that I would like to see Justin for example pump fake and take a couple dribbles and let that defender fly by and out of the play. I would like to see our starting PG do the same or drive it to totally collapse the defense and find the open easy score by the finish or slip.

Tell what else I am kinda funny about, when the opposing team has a guy heated up and looking at a huge basket, I kinda want his primary defender to stay closer to him, get the ball out of his hands if he has it and don't let him get it back and if he does make sure it is not a wide open clean look he gets. I watched Monk go off for 47 on us, Kenny was pretty much our starter that got torched, felt he defended for the most part pretty well but he did help to much at times and gave to much space for that quick shooter. I saw my starting PG give a much lesser player than Monk way to much space yesterday and I saw that time and time again and the results were not good.

Another thing I am funny about, when I see my starting PG drive in to the teeth of a zone, I like that, but when 3 guys converge on ya I kinda think at least there are 2 wide open guys that have a much easier look at a finish? Such a thing would actually be considered an assist and it has this funny way of getting your big man rewarded. Theo seems to understand that but he is a wing isn't he.

I see things like Hicks getting 5 shots total in a game and hitting 4 of them and I question, I see my Starting PG with a single assist across the last 2 games and I question. I see Justin being called out for being a black hole for taking 16 shots and I wonder what the heck? I didn't notice Justin's primary defensive assignment torching us all game, I did see their opposing PG drill us for 30+.

My point is if we are going to critique guys then lets be fair about it, not play favorites. If Nate plays a bad game there is no hesitation to call him out, meeks struggles he is called out, lord knows Luke is called out even at times if he didn't have a tuff game. The last 2 games have not been great games from Joel, his bar is set high so more is expected than is of Nate or kenny or 7th or BRob. But none of those guys are our starting PGs either...

JB hasn't been the problem Dave. Things are getting out of whack elsewhere, and yes Justin has been a black hole too often lately (and that's really not arguable). Our offensive system just cannot afford that. And if you're wondering about Hicks getting only 5 shots? Well, again there's your culprit. You hafta move the defense to get good post entries and if the ball stops and/or never gets back to JB after the first pass to initiate the offense then your Bigs get relegated to offensive rebounders.

As for the defensive end, the BC game wasn't about match-ups because their offense is designed so it won't be. It's about what's going on behind the guards, how we react to their screen/weave game and our Guards needing to adjust to not to help off on drivers

 

[coryfly]

I finally got around to watching the game last night (golf takes precedence). Justin and Berry each had a couple of possibly questionable shots but that was it. Almost every shot both took were good ones. I thought the offense looked pretty good. They got great looks outside and great looks everywhere for the most part.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

I finally got around to watching the game last night (golf takes precedence). Justin and Berry each had a couple of possibly questionable shots but that was it. Almost every shot both took were good ones. I thought the offense looked pretty good. They got great looks outside and great looks everywhere for the most part.

Yeah, 22 points on 16 shot attempts doesn't really seem like black hole territory to me. There were a couple of times he forced one up but he's being told to be more aggressive so I can live with one or two of those.

 

[Ozheelfan]

I finally got around to watching the game last night (golf takes precedence). Justin and Berry each had a couple of possibly questionable shots but that was it. Almost every shot both took were good ones. I thought the offense looked pretty good. They got great looks outside and great looks everywhere for the most part.

Ditto Cory (though I wish I had time for golf)
I'd agree more in the feedback about defense.... JB does drift into the lane to help and he left the hot hand alone on the perimeter. That said, he wasn't the only one to leave Bowman unguarded.
I do agree, the ball needs to get into the post more and extra passes facilitate this.

 

[gary-7]

Ditto Cory (though I wish I had time for golf)
I'd agree more in the feedback about defense.... JB does drift into the lane to help and he left the hot hand alone on the perimeter. That said, he wasn't the only one to leave Bowman unguarded.
I do agree, the ball needs to get into the post more and extra passes facilitate this.

Cause and effect. And what I said about JJ was accurate. It's a very fixable issue, but make no mistake, if it doesn't get fixed it will spell trouble down the road.

 

[Archer2]

Cause and effect. And what I said about JJ was accurate. It's a very fixable issue, but make no mistake, if it doesn't get fixed it will spell trouble down the road.

If I saw an ongoing trend, I might be a little concerned, but I don't. FGA's for the season to date:

Jackson 296
Meeks 215
Joel 202
Isaiah 172
Kenny 116
Nate 110
Tony 97
Luke 69

I think our best players are getting the lion's share of the shots, for the most part. I'd like to see Isaiah get a few more attempts and Nate to get fewer. Theo only has 19 FGA's but he's missed most of the season. As I said in another thread, Kennedy and Isaiah are only averaging 47 minutes combined, I would like to see both averaging 3-4 more minutes per game.

We have just scored 85+ points in 6 straight ACC games, something that we've never done before. So we're doing a lot of things right. We do need to contininue to work on our zone offense because I think we'll see teams opt to make us beat them from outside rather than let us continue to dominate in the paint. But we have to get the shots we want, interior shots, not the shots opposing teams want us to take. And like Gary said, you do that with ball reversals and by getting the ball into the elbow area, by ensuring that the ball and players are moving constantly.