Stats and stuff (Clemson game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
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You just answered your question, and I already have. The default is lay-in --- dunking is players' initiative. While forcing dunks is not always wise, when he does have leverage or the angle I would like to see him utilize the dunk a bit more. It's that simple.
You ALWAYS complain about the refs, in some way or another... always. The only time you don't make sure to complain about the refs is when you comment on the team's playing style that happens to influence the refs in a way that negatively impacts UNC! And, frankly, when someone chooses to read your post, there's no way to tell the difference.
So I was right that you were saying Dean and unc coaches since him are the reason Meeks doesn't dunk a lot or barely ever. Got it. You do realize you coul have just answered "yes" when I asked the first time and spared us the back and forth right?
Every time we lose or even win, many posters here including gary, blame the refs.
And, every single time we lose a recruit, many posters here including gary, blame handlers, shoe or money shadyness, not being a Carolina type, or us not wanting him anymore.
There really is no point to come to this board if you cannot understand and accept the fact that North Carolina is never second best to anyone and always has a reason they lost a game or a recruit.
And, every single time we lose a recruit, many posters here including gary, blame handlers, shoe or money shadyness, not being a Carolina type, or us not wanting him anymore.
There really is no point to come to this board if you cannot understand and accept the fact that North Carolina is never second best to anyone and always has a reason they lost a game or a recruit.
Do you realize if you weren't constantly trying to be snarky and needlessly combative an intelligent conversation could be had? Once again you oversimplify it, but historically a lot of our Bigs use the lay-in as a default, including very athletic ones.
I asked you simply if you were seriously implying Dean smith and the unc coaching tree were responsible for Kennedy meeks not dunking often. To which you retorted " are you seriously posting this?- Reading comprehension is hard I suppose". Seems to me you were the one being "combative". And funnily enough when it came down to it thats what you Were saying after all. All you had to do was answer "yes".
Dude, you complain about the refs every time after a game. Every time. No ifs, ands or buts.
GMAB. You asked me two questions, both in sarcastic tones. Mike called you out for it, but I answered anyway. The fact is historically a lot of UNC Bigs have eschewed the dunk more often than not .For example, you rarely saw Sam Perkins or Brad Daugherty or more recently, Tyler Zeller force a dunk. A few like James Worthy or Eric Montross would throw it down whenever they got the chance, but they're drilled to default to the lay-in deep.
Ask me a simple question without attitude and I'm happy to converse. Coming across like a troll doesn't accomplish anything.
The refs are part of the game. If I'm commenting on a game, I'll comment on players and coaches, and there's a good chance there'll be a comment on a ref. Not a hard concept... for most.
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SMH...
So, my pointing out that the constant complaints about the refs has jumped the shark has me now a member of the PC police? Oh it is pathetic when a Clemson fans does it but it is unquestionable truth when we do it? It is every game, show me one that you pointed out multiple bad calls that went in our favor, incompetent refs would make bad calls against both teams, don't recall you pointing that out...
Of course bad calls happen, they always have, they always will, it is part of the game that players and coaches have to adjust to. Of course a bad call that puts the other team on the line in a 1pt game is a big time tuff pill to swallow, had that guy made those 2 free throws in the first 5mins of the game it would be a 3pt game and not a 1pt game, isn't that true. The final result of any game is what occurs thru the entire 40mins, plus OT if needed. What occurs in the first 39mins of a game is always more important than what happens in the last minute.
As for Hicks and his foul issues, he is not picking up fouls because refs are picking on him, he is picking up fouls because he puts himself in position to have those calls go against him and he should know better by now. That is not even a reasonable debatable point unless we have to put our tin foil hats on...
I don't have a problem with that mentality. I use it regularly in my personal life. The only reason I've ever lost anything is because I didn't care enough about it to win.
But that's the least of what's annoying about this board.
I won't get into this back and forth between gary and Butter, but I actually agree that I think the staff does indeed suggest that bigs lay the ball in instead of dunk it. Zeller used to drive me mad with that because he never would dunk the damn ball. YOU'RE 7 FEET TALL, for cyin' out loud. Plus, a dunk sends a message and gets the crowd excited. Then there was that Miami game that he won at the buzzer and replay showed that had he attempted to dunk the ball, he wouldn't have had the ball out of his hands in time. So I learned that I don't know everything.
There ya go, dick. It has been an issue at times for years, and yeah, it does come from a general philosophy that is taught in drills. Big Z drove me crazy at times as well not dunking enough, but dunks do take more time. Speaking of which, remember when Brian Reese tried to dunk in the NCAA tourney game with 0.8 seconds left after Dean had drawn up an open floater and specifically told him not to try dunking it? Thankfully we won in OT.
I used the Montross example for what I would like to see Kennedy emulate a bit more. Eric wasn't bouncy but he was big, strong and long, and he would just reach up and flush it when they were expecting a finger-roll or lay-in. Kennedy could pick his spots and power through at times.
So........................... here comes Huffman who wants to dunk EVERYTHING! Something has to give. 
So........................... here comes Huffman who wants to dunk EVERYTHING! Something has to give.
Hans sure never had a problem with the dunk shot. never saw Roy gripe about it much either.
Ha! Great point, Mikey. Seriously, a big part if his adjustment here will be drills and skills to increase his post repertoire. He definitely needs that, but that being said, I hope he never loses the aggression.So........................... here comes Huffman who wants to dunk EVERYTHING! Something has to give.
...and Psycho could make shots from his hip with two guys hanging on him as well. Dunking or not, the biggest asset was that he was so danged strong and determined with the ball. That got him points and got him to the line. I'd love to see all our Bigs strive for that.
Rasheed, arguably my favorite Heel ever, was not a subscriber to the lay it in philosophy. Would love to see that mentality back on the court in one of our players.
I love that DES wasn't a big fan of either the 3 pointer or dunks, preferring to take high % shots and work on finishing first! That being said, the game is different now and I don't believe anybody told peeps not to dunk, just to focus on getting the 2 points! Aggression must be an important part of a college bball mindset and this is hard to teach. Meeks had to learn the level of aggressiveness necessary to excel and seems to get it more often than not this year. I've always said he is a finesse player in a bruiser's body. Manley isn't aggressive enough yet, but seems to want to be great so I expect him to pick it up relatively quickly. He doesn't have a problem dunking either.
One of the things I love about Huffman is his insane aggressiveness. He will not be one of those you yell at to just freakin' dunk the ball! A little hard work on footwork and post moves and I expect he will be fun to watch!
One of the things I love about Huffman is his insane aggressiveness. He will not be one of those you yell at to just freakin' dunk the ball! A little hard work on footwork and post moves and I expect he will be fun to watch!
D, that's a great example for what we're talking about.. At a clinic Dean made the remark that he didn't have a problem with Worthy dunking so much because 1) James had a full arsenal at the rim, and 2) he knew when to dunk it and never missed. Dean later said the same about Sheed... and even came to accept Sheed's demonstrative behavior. What was the quote? "If I could dunk like that I'd probably scream too"
So have I and many others on this board...I don't know why you keep throwing that out in so many posts, it doesn't make you unique or your perspective any better.
Because we hear about the fact that he played and coached in almost every thread on this board and he's the only one that uses it to defend some of his more questionable opinions. Everyone else rarely brings it up.
Never noticed myself. But then I'm not coming here looking to pick a fight over every stinkin thread either.
Nor am I. I pointed out that officials are bad, both sides. You even said something similar on this thread. Yet Gary has to argue with my assessment that it's wrong and it's wrong because he played and coached so he knows more. Who is starting what here Mike?
Oh brother! WHY go to his post if you can't without wanting to stir the pot?
Why is it me stirring the pot? I literally commented the SAME opinion that you did...Gary liked your comment and argued mine. Who is stirring the pot in this situation? Please, tell me.
I'm giving you a like for that post just because Emma Stone is hot and deserves a like.
Sorry if my delivery offended you, man. It was not my intention. I liked Mike's comment because I agree with it. In a typical game there will be a few missed calls. Ideally they balance out a little, but that was just not the case against Clemson. As for my other comments I was just pointing out that it at least used to be understood within the game that there are some calls you just don't miss if you're gonna keep a job as a ref (even at the HS level, much less college) and the JJ grab was one of those. Good refs make honest mistakes, but there was no room for judgement on that one, which only leaves two choices --- incompetence or an agenda. You said yourself that college officiating is in a bad place overall, and well, Nestor (for whatever reason) was directing all of his ample badness at us Tuesday, and it affected the game in both halves.
Man, if Kennedy played with as much passion as this board over silly little things we wouldn't be having this discussion!
Fellas what makes me mad is our players get fouled and you can obviously see some of them, but yet no call. On the other hand if they were to fall or throw themselves to the ground like other teams are taught, then they would get more calls. Listen, I may be the only one but I never want my kids or the teams I pull for to ever do those things. But, it is frustrating to see that if they were to embellish a little more we would get triple the calls we get. Blah
Very poorly officiated game both ways. I do believe we came out on the short end. But I've come to expect poorly officiated games as the norm. Bigs routinely get mugged inside with no call, yet ticky tack fouls 20 feet from the hoop elicit a foul call. Makes zero sense to me. I believe it's why more and more teams are going to the dribble drive offense.
Personally, I'd like to see us open the floor up more.
Personally, I'd like to see us open the floor up more.
OK, so moving on past the tin hats discussion, LOL.
Kinda confusing side discussion going on, asking if Roy teaches his players not to dunk? I don't know that any coach would teach his players to not dunk in todays game. Dean had to because the rules didn't allow it but Roy has different rules his players play under. What many coaches do teach is take the simple dunk, most do not like the extra mustard that takes a simple dunk and adds degree of difficulty as if it were a slam dunk contest, you better make that extra mustard dunk or your coach will park you.
Coaches all want the simple play, the easy play that ends in a score, if you struggle to dunk then yes, they will want you to lay it in. Meeks & Deon are examples of guys that you would think with their height and strength would have been big time dunkers but reality is Deon wasn't and Meeks isn't, just a lack of explosion, nothing shocking there, we have seen it for 3yrs with Meeks and saw it 4 with Deon. Meeks, struggles to dunk in traffic, he can dunk when he has an open lane but he has to have a step, he does not dunk on a post catch and explode up and thru like Tyler did. Not sure if it is a balance issue or a leg drive issue, or slow quick twitch reaction but at this point why does not really matter, it is what it is at this point.
While meeks does struggle to dunk because he does not get great elevation, the fact that he does not get great elevation does actually allow him to hold his balance and be able to go back up quicker than most for that tip back, it allows him to follow right back up on his misses where as a higher elevation would take him longer to regroup and be able to go back up for the tip drill.
Kinda confusing side discussion going on, asking if Roy teaches his players not to dunk? I don't know that any coach would teach his players to not dunk in todays game. Dean had to because the rules didn't allow it but Roy has different rules his players play under. What many coaches do teach is take the simple dunk, most do not like the extra mustard that takes a simple dunk and adds degree of difficulty as if it were a slam dunk contest, you better make that extra mustard dunk or your coach will park you.
Coaches all want the simple play, the easy play that ends in a score, if you struggle to dunk then yes, they will want you to lay it in. Meeks & Deon are examples of guys that you would think with their height and strength would have been big time dunkers but reality is Deon wasn't and Meeks isn't, just a lack of explosion, nothing shocking there, we have seen it for 3yrs with Meeks and saw it 4 with Deon. Meeks, struggles to dunk in traffic, he can dunk when he has an open lane but he has to have a step, he does not dunk on a post catch and explode up and thru like Tyler did. Not sure if it is a balance issue or a leg drive issue, or slow quick twitch reaction but at this point why does not really matter, it is what it is at this point.
While meeks does struggle to dunk because he does not get great elevation, the fact that he does not get great elevation does actually allow him to hold his balance and be able to go back up quicker than most for that tip back, it allows him to follow right back up on his misses where as a higher elevation would take him longer to regroup and be able to go back up for the tip drill.
