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Stats and stuff (Monmouth game)...

Idk Gary, I certainly grant that Maye is a better perimeter defender than Tony. But does that make up for his weaker offense and rebounding? Not so sure about that.
Maye is actually an excellent rebounder, as his #s per minute show. He also is a legit threat facing up and from 3 and is a good passer. It's not a matter of "making up for" anything, Tony and Luke are just different type players.

Look, since Kennedy has been here he mostly played the 5 because even though he has a face-up game he struggled early guarding away from the block. As he slimmed down and got quicker and smarter he has become a sneaky-good defender further out. I think the same will happen with Tony as he catches up with his body. He runs the floor well but is not quick enough just yet in moving his feet to guard more than 10 feet out --- as that improves so will his ability to play more 4. For example, let's say next season he and Huffman get on the floor together --- clearly Huffman would be the 5 and Tony could play the 4.

Honestly, I wish folks here could grasp that Luke is a very good player and very valuable to this team, and our Bigs' minutes are just about where they should be (silly concerns about who comes in first notwithstanding). We are fortunate to have the flexibility to mix and match, because reality is that teams with two traditional Bigs on the floor together are not as common as they used to be.

As far as Tony goes I was on here preaching about how good he was gonna be even before he committed, and his development is coming along just as I expected. He is far from his ceiling and by next season with another summer of working on his body and game he can be a monster for us.
 
I imagine tony will start seeing those 20 minutes per game towards the end of the season and perform very well. there will be talk of tony is ready to go now based on potential and he will come back for yr 2 to get that playing time he should have had this year and Duke, Arizona, Kansas and Kentucky will use him as another example of how NBA ready players have to wait their turn in Roy's system.
 
I imagine tony will start seeing those 20 minutes per game towards the end of the season and perform very well. there will be talk of tony is ready to go now based on potential and he will come back for yr 2 to get that playing time he should have had this year and Duke, Arizona, Kansas and Kentucky will use him as another example of how NBA ready players have to wait their turn in Roy's system.
...except he isn't really NBA ready.
 
...except he isn't really NBA ready.

I agree with you Gary but neither was skal, Noel, lyles, etc etc.

the bigger question is who is our best big man? I think we would be a better team come March starting tony over Meeks and letting him play thru his mistakes. Side by side Bradley is a better player now and has much more upside but Meeks is a upperclassmen. Please don't take this as a slam on Meeks because it's not. I just don't think the best center we have is starting and other teams are pointing that out to recruits.
 
How many 18 year olds are? They get drafted for what they'll be at 21-22 and Tony would be well within reason if he declared after this season.
Karl Anthony Townes was NBA ready. Tony is not. Could he go after this season and get drafted? Of course. So what? He'll learn more and progress way more here than riding the bench in the league, and that 6'11 ain't gonna shrink.
 
I agree with you Gary but neither was skal, Noel, lyles, etc etc.

the bigger question is who is our best big man? I think we would be a better team come March starting tony over Meeks and letting him play thru his mistakes. Side by side Bradley is a better player now and has much more upside but Meeks is a upperclassmen. Please don't take this as a slam on Meeks because it's not. I just don't think the best center we have is starting and other teams are pointing that out to recruits.
Tony is not better than Meeks at this point. More upside? Yes. But he's not a better basketball player yet.
 
I grant that they are both lousy perimeter defenders. When did Luke Maye become Tony Allen?

He's the Bruce Bowen of the acc therefore only logical he plays against those elite 4 out 1 in teams, such as a Monmouth. I mean we probably only beat them by 28 instead of 33 if we don't employ this strategy.
 
Karl Anthony Townes was NBA ready. Tony is not. Could he go after this season and get drafted? Of course. So what? He'll learn more and progress way more here than riding the bench in the league, and that 6'11 ain't gonna shrink.

Ok...how many KAT's and Davis' are there? Maybe 1 per year.

How many 18 year olds correctly declare because they turn into good NBA players in a few years? Probably about 10 per year, I think Tony is one of them should he choose to do so.
 
Tony is not better than Meeks at this point. More upside? Yes. But he's not a better basketball player yet.

I respect that point of view I know my pov is a little controversial. I just don't see it, if anything it's extremely close and why not get the guy with more upside more minutes.
 
Ok...how many KAT's and Davis' are there? Maybe 1 per year.

How many 18 year olds correctly declare because they turn into good NBA players in a few years? Probably about 10 per year, I think Tony is one of them should he choose to do so.
That number is a bit high, and a Big like Tony has nothing to gain by rushing it.
 
I respect that point of view I know my pov is a little controversial. I just don't see it, if anything it's extremely close and why not get the guy with more upside more minutes.
Not quite that close just yet. Kennedy ain't getting his minutes on sentiment and there are subtleties Tony has a ways to go on. I'm sure he will continue to progress and I like the pace he's on --- it's good for him AND good for the team --- and I look for him to be a force in our run this March.
 
I thought we are having a very respectful conversation. I appreciate Gary's point of view and enjoy the back and forth. you do realize this is a message board. If we cant discuss thoughts and theory's here what is the purpose of the board.
 
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I thought we are having a very respectful conversation. I appreciate Gary's point of view and enjoy the back and forth. you do realize this is a message board. If we cant discuss thoughts and theory's here what is the purpose of the board.

My guess is he was not referring to you.
 
I thought we are having a very respectful conversation. I appreciate Gary's point of view and enjoy the back and forth. you do realize this is a message board. If we cant discuss thoughts and theory's here what is the purpose of the board.

What's the problem with this conversation? We're debating minutes, draft stock, decisions in a pretty respectful way.

Gary, I don't disagree that Tony would do well coming back for another year...but I won't call any decision he makes a bad one since both options are definitely on the table for him.
 
My guess is he was not referring to you.
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What's the problem with this conversation? We're debating minutes, draft stock, decisions in a pretty respectful way.

Gary, I don't disagree that Tony would do well coming back for another year...but I won't call any decision he makes a bad one since both options are definitely on the table for him.
They are for sure.
 
Tony definitely has something to gain by declaring after this year. It'd get him to free agency a year earlier in the league, and add an extra year to his career. That could mean an extra $10M+ added to his career earnings. If he's a 1st round pick he should probably go, unless he really thinks Carolina will develop him better than NBA coaches can.

The uncertainty regarding his status is all the more reason we need backup plans at the 4/5 spots. If he leaves then what do we do next year?
 
Tony definitely has something to gain by declaring after this year. It'd get him to free agency a year earlier in the league, and add an extra year to his career. That could mean an extra $10M+ added to his career earnings. If he's a 1st round pick he should probably go, unless he really thinks Carolina will develop him better than NBA coaches can.

The uncertainty regarding his status is all the more reason we need backup plans at the 4/5 spots. If he leaves then what do we do next year?

There is no way IMO Tony (speaking to his play) is ready to move to the next level, strongly feel he needs at least one more season to develop his body and his game. Kid has huge upside but for right now most of what he gets done is by out lengthing opponents, he is still really raw as a player skill wise. If he can put on 10-15lbs in the off season, work hard on his conditioning, and refine a couple go to scoring moves he could be one of the best big men in the college game next season and then he will not only be able to be drafted high but have a much better chance to play at that next level.

I don't think you get better NBA development than what these kids get in the college game. They get world class coaching and skill development, they play in front of huge crowds of rabid fans, constantly on TV where you get to gauge their maturity as well as degree of improvement. You get to see these kids play in a big time spotlight to see if they are ready to star at this level before moving to a higher level.

The reality is when you get to the NBA you are expected to be a player and if you are not you may not be around the NBA to sign that second contract. Truth is not even many college stars can make it in the NBA, Yeah, there are NBA teams that will draft a kid that isn't really ready for that league but they do so because they are cheap investments but getting that second huge numbers contract is the key and you better show you deserve the mega numbers while you are in that rookie contract or you will lose a heck of a lot more than staying in college a extra year or 2 would cost you. Means, you should be ready to play and produce early to get that next big time pay day, even if you do get that second contract the numbers will not be nearly what they could have been had you hit that league running. You want that second contract to be 4yrs at $80 million or 2yrs at $30 million?
 
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Not quite that close just yet. Kennedy ain't getting his minutes on sentiment and there are subtleties Tony has a ways to go on. I'm sure he will continue to progress and I like the pace he's on --- it's good for him AND good for the team --- and I look for him to be a force in our run this March.

Meeks... While I was mostly happy with the way Meeks played prior to the Christmas break, I could not help but wonder how he would play coming off that break, the last 2 seasons we saw him fade in december and I could not help but wonder if we were going to see the same this season. The good news is Meeks came out still playing vs Monmouth, he so far is noticable a better player than he has been and looks like he may sustain it this season all the way thru. So for me that is really good news!

Meeks is absolutely deserving of his starting role and his minutes, he so far IMO is the most steady of our big men. To me a great example of a kid having more upside raw talent (Tony) but the more experienced guy is the more productive guy in Meeks.
 
Karl Anthony Townes was NBA ready. Tony is not. Could he go after this season and get drafted? Of course. So what? He'll learn more and progress way more here than riding the bench in the league, and that 6'11 ain't gonna shrink.

Totally agree gary !!!
 
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