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Takeaway from the beatdown of the Illini

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UNCGridironFanatic

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Sep 20, 2015
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I think Illinois is an OK team, a 6-7 W team. As we all knew, an avg. D would give us a shot to win 8-10 games. I'm thinking 8 at this point, w/ Ws over Delaware, WF, UVa, Pitt, dook, and one of three vs. Miami, @ vatech, or moo. Could we BEAT all 3 of those, and GT to boot? Sure, but I think we have a couple of fatal flaws that will prevent that:

1- Fed is an inexplicably bad game manager. Hard to understand about a guy who seems to "get it" re: everything else about running a football program (I.e...recognized he needed a credible name to own the D for improvement to materialize). But gameday coaching, wow; him vs. Spurrier wasn't even a fair fight; ditto him vs. PJ. His slavish nature to his offensive system borders on a bullheaded "I'm gonna do it my way, by dang, and situation, needs, and circumstances be darned". We go at warp speed just for the sake of it, even when we don't need to do so. Mind numbing. WF '12, Miami '13, SCar '15, GT '13, dook '12 and ''13. All games where incrediblly ill-conceived and fatally timed coaching moves by Fedora, both schematic and anectodotally situational, doomed us. That's 6 Ls in 3.25 seasons, folks, pulled from the jaws of victory by poor coaching moves, in-game. Not much to do here, other than hope he improves, or fire him and start over. He seems way too stubborn and enslaved to his philosophy to improve by a sufficient increment.

2- we don't have the DE play, either pass rush or setting the edge on the run to feed the play inside, to be really good yet. Bart, Drennon, and Junior are serviceable, but not sufficient to win ACC titles. Did notice Tyler Powell at DE a couple series yesterday, when we were in a " big package", to key on the run. Interesting concept, but I wonder about Powell's ability to be an every down DE from a speed perspective

3- Chizik is a really good DCoord. Our DB play is 5000x better; kudos to Warren as well. Chiz is also really smart; when he took the job, he knew he had some pieces; the D side wasn't devoid of talent. Or said another way; UNC would've been improved to some degree defensively ANYWAY....our D youth in '14 was compounded immeasurably by the suspension of 3 DTs and the starting Ram hybrid less than a month from season's start. Guys got reps before they were ready last year, and necessary position changes hurt us....now that experience is paying off.
 
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I.e., at 29-12, which even decent game-coaching would have Fed's record at UNC at this point, the fanbase wouldn't be up in arms or distrustful to the point of not giving 100% support to Fed. That's the difference in those 6 Ls that Fed's coaching gaffes cost us.
 
I have to agree as far as some of Fed's mind-numbingly inexplicable calls. He simply leaves me shaking my head at times. And I know he loves the fast uptempo style of ball, but there are times when it would behoove us to run a more patient offense, depending upon the opponent and game/time parameters. I would love to see him be more flexible in that regard.

Very happy with the way our defense is progressing. We have a fine defensive staff.
 
It is as if his goal is to max out on ## of plays ran, as opposed to making intelligent decisions that lead to scoring points.

The constant fury of trying to go faster, IMO, is why we have so many dead ball offensive penalties (False starts, illegal procedures, etc).
 
More takeaway:

1- Shak Rasheed is a stud LB. Love his physicality.
2- offense thrives playing north and south. OL doing a nice job creating room to run between the tackles, and Hood can turn the 4 yd gain into 6 most plays; a huge advantage. Unfortunately, Fed has a woody for playing east/west, for whatever dumb reason.
3- Dinkins, Crawford, NJones, Thomason, Clarke, and PowelL make a nice, deep rotation at DT.
4- development from Collins, Jackson, and the aforementioned DE rotation is the key to this being a top half of the ACC D by mid season.
 
I like all the new guys on the D staff. Chiz, Pap, Warren , and Scott. Solid and teaching fundamentals. Now if our offensive staff and head coach would follow suit....
 
No doubt Weiler has given the Heels a valuable weapon. We now can score even when we stall inside the opposition's 30 yd. line.
 
UNCGridironFanatic said:
I think Illinois is an OK team, a 6-7 W team. As we all knew, an avg. D would give us a shot to win 8-10 games. I'm thinking 8 at this point, w/ Ws over Delaware, WF, UVa, Pitt, dook, and one of three vs. Miami, @ vatech, or moo. Could we BEAT all 3 of those, and GT to boot? Sure, but I think we have a couple of fatal flaws that will prevent that:

1- Fed is an inexplicably bad game manager. Hard to understand about a guy who seems to "get it" re: everything else about running a football program (I.e...recognized he needed a credible name to own the D for improvement to materialize). But gameday coaching, wow; him vs. Spurrier wasn't even a fair fight; ditto him vs. PJ. His slavish nature to his offensive system borders on a bullheaded "I'm gonna do it my way, by dang, and situation, needs, and circumstances be darned". We go at warp speed just for the sake of it, even when we don't need to do so. Mind numbing. WF '12, Miami '13, SCar '15, GT '13, dook '12 and ''13. All games where incrediblly ill-conceived and fatally timed coaching moves by Fedora, both schematic and anectodotally situational, doomed us. That's 6 Ls in 3.25 seasons, folks, pulled from the jaws of victory by poor coaching moves, in-game. Not much to do here, other than hope he improves, or fire him and start over. He seems way too stubborn and enslaved to his philosophy to improve by a sufficient increment.

2- we don't have the DE play, either pass rush or setting the edge on the run to feed the play inside, to be really good yet. Bart, Drennon, and Junior are serviceable, but not sufficient to win ACC titles. Did notice Tyler Powell at DE a couple series yesterday, when we were in a " big package", to key on the run. Interesting concept, but I wonder about Powell's ability to be an every down DE from a speed perspective

3- Chizik is a really good DCoord. Our DB play is 5000x better; kudos to Warren as well. Chiz is also really smart; when he took the job, he knew he had some pieces; the D side wasn't devoid of talent. Or said another way; UNC would've been improved to some degree defensively ANYWAY....our D youth in '14 was compounded immeasurably by the suspension of 3 DTs and the starting Ram hybrid less than a month from season's start. Guys got reps before they were ready last year, and necessary position changes hurt us....now that experience is paying off.
Click to expand...
I'm going to go backwards.

3. I think the old D staff had lost the team, and not only would they have failed to deliver an improvement this year, but we might have seen a major team division if they had been retained.

2. That's the reason I assumed Dalton would play and make an impact by mid-season. Maybe he has an injury that Fedora is keeping under wraps. Powell was a wrestler in HS, which requires stamina and quickness. He might might be able to play DE.

3. Coaching ideology. Bear Bryant did not have that disease - he won with passing QBs and with a run all the time offense. The Bear shifted what he did based on the the talent at hand. His last wishbone teams passed 6 or 7 times more per game than OU's teams did, because Bryant had good receivers and knew not to waste them. Switzer, an ideologue, wasted receivers and would have wasted Troy Aikman if he hadn't had the sense to transfer. As for game management - who cares as long as you have a coaching ideology?
 
UNCGridironFanatic said:
More takeaway:

1- Shak Rasheed is a stud LB. Love his physicality.
2- offense thrives playing north and south. OL doing a nice job creating room to run between the tackles, and Hood can turn the 4 yd gain into 6 most plays; a huge advantage. Unfortunately, Fed has a woody for playing east/west, for whatever dumb reason.
3- Dinkins, Crawford, NJones, Thomason, Clarke, and PowelL make a nice, deep rotation at DT.
4- development from Collins, Jackson, and the aforementioned DE rotation is the key to this being a top half of the ACC D by mid season.
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You do realize your hypocrisy in praising the offense and insulting Fedora in the same post, right?
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
You do realize your hypocrisy in praising the offense and insulting Fedora in the same post, right?
Click to expand...

How so? The offense is working well in North/South mode. Recognizing that it's not in said mode but about half the time isn't hypocritical; it's observant. Observant that Larry Fedora is poor at optimizing the weapons at his disposal via subpar utilization.
 
UNCGridironFanatic said:
How so? The offense is working well in North/South mode. Recognizing that it's not in said mode but about half the time isn't hypocritical; it's observant. Observant that Larry Fedora is poor at optimizing the weapons at his disposal via subpar utilization.
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You do realize one of the tenants of the spread offense is to SPREAD the defense horizontally right? Then you hit them vertically. Totally on board with questioning Fedora's in-game gaffes and being pissed by them, but getting angry at the offense for doing what it's supposed to do is strange.
 
I understand the tenets quite well, thank you. Spreading the D horizontally to find vulnerable vertical seams is a different animal from the offense attempting to actually move the ball thru a preponderance of plays that GO east/west. East/West plays are slow developing, and kill one advantage we have over most opponents.... speed. And Fed relies on such plays FAR too much. Every bit the nonsensical BS that is his insistence to throw inside the opposition's 10 yard line. Yes, we scored twice passing inside the Illini's 10 yd line, but that doesn't make the strategy solid (see SCar game). Bottom line, Fed needs to learn to coach P5 football; this isn't Conf USA.
 
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UNCGridironFanatic said:
Every bit the nonsensical BS that is his insistence to throw inside the opposition's 10 yard line. Yes, we scored twice passing inside the Illini's 10 yd line, but that doesn't make the strategy solid (see SCar game).
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So it worked, yet it's bad strategy? Do I wish Hood had ran it in Charlotte on that drive? Yes, absolutely. But on those pass calls, Tar Heels were open everywhere. Marquise just didn't execute. That doesn't make it a bad call.
 
Yes, needs to learn to coach POWER 5 football (RIF). If you think Fed is a good game coach and makes good situational decisions in his play calling, then you and I are watching a different team/coach.

The day he was hired, common buzz in football circles was that UNC had instantly assured themselves of having the 3rd best coach....in the TRIANGLE! And that was w/ TOBY still munching grass on the Wusspecker sideline!
 
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UNCGridironFanatic said:
Yes, needs to learn to coach POWER 5 football (RIF). IFyou think Fed is a good game coach and makes good situational decisions in his play calling, then you and I are watching a different team/coach.

The day he was hired, common buzz in football circles was that UNC had instantly assured themselves of having the 3rd best coach....in the TRIANGLE! And that was w/ TOBY still munching grass on the Wusspecker sideline!
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Now you're just making stuff up. But please continue.
 
Making what up? 3rd best Triangle coach?? Direct quote from the ACC Sports Journal the week he was hired. Cited assts. in the league at the time.
 
UNCGridironFanatic said:
Oooh, internet tough guy. I'm trembling.
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Tough guy? Hardly. But you smell awfully trollish.

Riddle me this. How does a self-proclaimed "UNC Gridiron Fanatic" magically appear on the boards without notice after the 3rd game of the season? Seems legit.

P.S. Kudos for being 3 of the first 4 responses to a thread you started, by the way.
 
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I needed to announce my arrival? That's rich. Not so self-aggrandizing. I'm a football-first Heel fan who decided to start posting. Unlike you apparently, I have a full life w/ other interests, so I decided to join the board when I found it an interesting activity to do.

Troll?? Ludricous. UNC '86. Don't be ridiculous. You don't like my posts? Don't read them.
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
You're telling me Cutcliffe would've navigated this sh*tstorm better than Fedora, without whining like a little girl to the media? Right..
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Absolutely, Cut would've and has done better than Fed....at MORE of a football sh*tstorm than UNC has or likely ever will be, scandal be d@mned. Dook was among the worst football situations in college football for 4 decades (minus 3 OBC years) prior to Cut.

Yeah, Cut whines and waxes philosophical to the point you want to puke listening to him (calling players "young people" ad nauseum), and I can't stand him, or his doting media butt kissers, but he is a heckuva game coach, light years ahead of Fed. Fed is 1-2 vs. him, and has had better talent all 3 times.
 
UNCGridironFanatic said:
I needed to announce my arrival? That's rich. Not so self-aggrandizing.
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You provided 6 of the first 9 posts in your own thread. It's pretty clear you have quite a lofty opinion of yourself.

UNCGridironFanatic said:
Unlike you apparently, I have a full life w/ other interests....
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Ooooh, good one. I mean, you don't know jack squat about me, but don't let that stop you from taking a jab at my personal life. Maybe if you spent a little time on the boards getting to know the other posters first, you'd realize what an asinine comment that was.

UNCGridironFanatic said:
You don't like my posts? Don't read them.
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I know how a message board works. I lead an empty life bereft of other interests, remember?
 
You guys attacked me. I simply responded. One of you hit me re: Cut; I answered w/ the facts. One of you said I was making up what many football people thought/said about Fed when we hired him, and cited the source. One of you called it hypocritical to praise some things the offense is doing well while simultaneously criticizing Fed's insistence on doing things offensively in direct contradiction to the things that work well. I simply explained how that accusation is inaccurate.

I came here to talk football, UNC Football to be specific. And unfortunately until he quits w/ the bone-headed stubbornness born of enslavement to his system, Fedora is part of UNC Football. Maybe his coaching will improve. If not, we need to make a change at year's end.
 
Wtf is a rif? Retirement income fund? Reduction in force? I get gfy though. I became familiar with it after I got married.
 
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OP, talk football all you want. By all means, this board needs more activity.

But when you come on here slamming Fedora, I'm going to call you out. He's not perfect by any means but you make it seem like he's an under qualified buffoon who has done nothing right since he got here. And that dog won't hunt.
 
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I dont disagree with much of what Gridiron has said. (And when I said "new guy", i was referring to you and not GC)

At any rate, Fed has been exposed for the past few seasons, the most recent of which being in Charlotte and that one was particularly bad. Maybe he will learn and adjust and maybe he will keep on going like he has been for 3+ years. We have one more warm up and then the money games begin. Wont take long to see how Fed chooses to go.

Although 1 thing I will give him props for and that is recruiting. We have a lot of talent on the field.
 
Let's review. You make a thread about the takeaways from the Illinois game -- arguably our most comprehensive win against a P5 team since the 2012 VT game, but better -- and your first takeaway is this:

UNCGridironFanatic said:
1- Fed is an inexplicably bad game manager. Hard to understand about a guy who seems to "get it" re: everything else about running a football program (I.e...recognized he needed a credible name to own the D for improvement to materialize). But gameday coaching, wow; him vs. Spurrier wasn't even a fair fight; ditto him vs. PJ. His slavish nature to his offensive system borders on a bullheaded "I'm gonna do it my way, by dang, and situation, needs, and circumstances be darned". We go at warp speed just for the sake of it, even when we don't need to do so. Mind numbing. WF '12, Miami '13, SCar '15, GT '13, dook '12 and ''13. All games where incrediblly ill-conceived and fatally timed coaching moves by Fedora, both schematic and anectodotally situational, doomed us. That's 6 Ls in 3.25 seasons, folks, pulled from the jaws of victory by poor coaching moves, in-game. Not much to do here, other than hope he improves, or fire him and start over. He seems way too stubborn and enslaved to his philosophy to improve by a sufficient increment.
Click to expand...

Not exactly the best timing or place for an anti-Fedora rant. You seem to have an agenda. Other than your OP in the OL thread, every post you've made has been anti-Fedora.

Question: what do you want? Do you want to fire him right now? Like I get that you don't like him....but he's currently our coach.
 
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To be clear, Fedora HAS made in-game mistakes that have cost us multiple games. I'm not disputing that. I'm not agreeing he made one at the end of the SCar game. MW shoulders the blame for that loss.

But even you admit we could win 8 games this year. That's a possibility because of the talent he's brought in.
 
OK, review...but review it ALL. I said in sentence one of the breakdown that Fed's game mgmt. weakness is so very odd in light of all the things he does well in running the program. Good recruiting, particularly under the storm clouds present his whole tenure, clearly is a big part of what he does well.

My agenda is for UNC to be a player in college football. That's all. But no school can reach its potential when the guy in charge brain farts on 3rd and 1 and fails to use a T.O. to avoid a penalty when his 1-4 team is in position with ONE more first down conversion to secure a W over the #7 team in the nation....anymore than he can decide to rely on a struggling QB in the redzone, down 4, and ignore his best RB, AVERAGING nearly 12 yds a pop in the game in question. That stuff is beyond questionable; it's inexplicably stupid.

I don't want Fed fired now. But he needs to tighten up his game coaching, and quit being such a slave to his system. We'll see, but leopards don't change their spots often....remember when Bunting blew the 24-0 halftime lead vs. Wake in 01? He was done, in my mind, that day. Good coaches don't lose games like that, at home. Fed is kinda like that, to me. He just has had too many inexplicable hiccups to trust at this point.
 
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Until the NCAA stuff is over I can't judge Fed either way...UNC has missed on some good players the last few years because of the NCAA on D....Hell we no longer even look at the prep schools anymore...Got 2 guys starting for Ole Miss that would be at UNC right now having big impacts and 1 is a pass rushing machine...
 
UNC '92 said:
Wtf is a rif?
Click to expand...
Reading Is Fundamental, a children's literacy campaign. Basically, an overt and condescending jab at my reading comprehension skills.

UNCGridironFanatic said:
I said in sentence one of the breakdown that Fed's game mgmt. weakness is so very odd in light of all the things he does well in running the program.
Click to expand...
Nobody here is about to suggest that Fedora's play calling and in-game management are exemplary. He's ticked us all off at one time or another with boneheaded decisions. But if you go back and read your post that I responded to, it's entirely devoted to criticizing his offensive philosophy in general and not his decision-making specifically. That's the point to which I took exception. It's an absurd position considering his success at UF, OSU, and UNC. That's all I was trying to say, but you're obviously welcome to continue believing whatever you like.
 
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UNCGridironFanatic said:
OK, review...but review it ALL. I said in sentence one of the breakdown that Fed's game mgmt. weakness is so very odd in light of all the things he does well in running the program. Good recruiting, particularly under the storm clouds present his whole tenure, clearly is a big part of what he does well.

My agenda is for UNC to be a player in college football. That's all. But no school can reach its potential when the guy in charge brain farts on 3rd and 1 and fails to use a T.O. to avoid a penalty when his 1-4 team is in position with ONE more first down conversion to secure a W over the #7 team in the nation....anymore than he can decide to rely on a struggling QB in the redzone, down 4, and ignore his best RB, AVERAGING nearly 12 yds a pop in the game in question. That stuff is beyond questionable; it's inexplicably stupid.

I don't want Fed fired now. But he needs to tighten up his game coaching, and quit being such a slave to his system. We'll see, but leopards don't change their spots often....remember when Bunting blew the 24-0 halftime lead vs. Wake in 01? He was done, in my mind, that day. Good coaches don't lose games like that, at home. Fed is kinda like that, to me. He just has had too many inexplicable hiccups to trust at this point.
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This is valid and I agree with most of the points. But I just don't think you can 'lessen' the importance of the fact that he IS recruiting well, especially amid sanctions and a relentless local media assault. Most of the games you mentioned....we wouldn't even be in a position to win without his recruits.

Also, special teams. Fedora is heavily involved with the special teams as you know. Last year's game at Pitt....single-handedly won by the special teams, including Ryan Switzer, who Fedora recruited. The Virginia game last season, a pivotal onside kick helped us win. LF didn't call the play, but again he strongly emphasizes special teams.

Playmakers -- Quinshad Davis, just set a career record at UNC. Fedora recruited him in 2 months. Ryan Switzer...ties an NCAA record. Elijah Hood, Bug Howard, Donnie Miles, Jalen Dalton, the stable of QB's...all recruited by Fedora.

See? There's more to the puzzle than just in-game coaching. Again, I'm not excusing his in-game mistakes. There's no excuse for it. But to call for him to be fired?? Come on man.
 
UNCGridironFanatic said:
Every bit the nonsensical BS that is his insistence to throw inside the opposition's 10 yard line.
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For the record, here is UNC's performance from inside the opponents' 10-yard line last season:

Total Plays: 74
Running Plays: 50 (68%)
Passing Plays: 24 (32%)

Total Possessions: 35
TDs Scored: 27 (77% of possessions)
FGs Scored: 5 (14% of possessions)
Turnovers: 1 (3% of possessions) [Fumble vs. dook]
Turnovers on Downs: 2 (6% of possessions) [Fake FG vs. Rutgers; 4th down incompletion on final drive vs. Rutgers]

Quite a few takeaways here. First, Fedora does not exhibit an "insistence to throw inside the opposition's 10-yard line." UNC runs the ball more than twice as often in that situation. Also, UNC has been extremely successful scoring TDs inside the 10. Last but not least, the only turnover came on a running play.

In fact, prior to the debacle against South Carolina, Marquise Williams had thrown 89 career red-zone passes with 20 going for touchdowns and 0 being intercepted. UNC was also 5th in the nation last season in red-zone TD percentage.

Conclusion? Most people are overreacting to the decision to not use Hood on the final possession of the South Carolina game. I personally would have preferred it, but it's unknowable whether that would have won the game for UNC. Judging Fedora's coaching in such situations by a single event is unreasonable when he has had demonstrable success in that area.
 
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Hats off to RH for another fine stats job.

Look you 2- Gridiron and RH- you guys strike me as both being knowledgeable about football and passionate about UNC (although I recognize GI's small sample size of posts). You two most definitely do not need to go after the other personally. Now you kids play nice or I am sending you both to your rooms.
 
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