The Conspiracy Theory: Is it naive to believe it exists, or more naive to NOT believe it occurs?

[heelmanwilm]

So why is the ACC backing the bad call then?

no they're not backing it. They said an official saw a player break the plane. Which is basically restating the obvious. But They never said if it was a good or bad call.

People dont understand that a conspiracy of this magnitude would have to involve dozens of people on all levels of management. There is no way you're going to convince me that so many people could be involved in something like this where careers and reputations are put on the line without someone leaking info or somebody making a mistake and revealing a smoking gun. Any person sitting on this info with proof of such a conspiracy would have the story of the century available to them. They could sell this for millions of dollars to Sports Illustrated or ESPN. So basically someone is trying to convince us that people making maybe 30k a year are ignoring millions of dollars as a whistle blower to reserve an ACC championship Playoff spot. I'm not buying it.

 

[franklin street]

no they're not backing it. They said an official saw a player break the plane. Which is basically restating the obvious. But They never said if it was a good or bad call.

People dont understand that a conspiracy of this magnitude would have to involve dozens of people on all levels of management. There is no way you're going to convince me that so many people could be involved in something like this where careers and reputations are put on the line without someone leaking info or somebody making a mistake and revealing a smoking gun. Any person sitting on this info with proof of such a conspiracy would have the story of the century available to them. They could sell this for millions of dollars to Sports Illustrated or ESPN. So basically someone is trying to convince us that people making maybe 30k a year are ignoring millions of dollars as a whistle blower to reserve an ACC championship Playoff spot. I'm not buying it.

millions of dollars?
espn or si might buy you a cup of coffee at starbucks for this story and that's about it.

 

[strummingram]

no they're not backing it. They said an official saw a player break the plane. Which is basically restating the obvious. But They never said if it was a good or bad call.

People dont understand that a conspiracy of this magnitude would have to involve dozens of people on all levels of management. There is no way you're going to convince me that so many people could be involved in something like this where careers and reputations are put on the line without someone leaking info or somebody making a mistake and revealing a smoking gun. Any person sitting on this info with proof of such a conspiracy would have the story of the century available to them. They could sell this for millions of dollars to Sports Illustrated or ESPN. So basically someone is trying to convince us that people making maybe 30k a year are ignoring millions of dollars as a whistle blower to reserve an ACC championship Playoff spot. I'm not buying it.

It's not like the 1919 World Series... because they got CAUGHT. Not everyone gets caught.

 

[WoadBlue]

On the subject of conspiracy but a different specific, this is a quote from an Iowa fan on a Texas board: "The playoff committee will continue to move the goalposts to justify the selections and/or higher seed of schools from the PAC/B1G/SEC. Look at the make up of the committee the this year (last year was even more stacked for those 3). It has been loaded with people who have connections to those three conferences. The B12 has only had its AD rep the last couple years (which all P5 conferences have) on the committee. Until the B12 is able to get more representation on the playoff committee it is going to continue to struggle with seeding or getting a participant in. This could be a problem for the ACC as well, but until their champ stops going undefeated, it won't be an issue."

 

[The tigerdoc]

Repeated false starts and repeated personal fouls will do that wilm.

The game was called fairly well until that last terribly blown call, one that seems inexplicable under "normal" scenarios. He blew that call by a country mile comparatively.

That is a perspective from a Tar Heel fan, and that's fine. You must understand your own bias, just as CU fans like myself have to acknowledge our bias. As a Clemson fan, I can show you 10-12 blatant holding calls on Spain that were not whistled. CU had 2 DEs that simply dominated your OTs, and there was not 1 holding call that I remember the entire night. If the game had been called "perfectly", I believe CU would have won handily. That is clearly a biased opinion, and I admit it. Even if the onsides kick play had been called correctly, you still lose because there was targeting on #48 that was not called. This is very similar to the Duke/UM game where everyone complains about the knee being down and the illegal block on UM during the final play. They fail to mention 2 bogus pass interference penalties that allowed Duke to score just minutes before. You can't focus on one play toward the end of the game when there were clearly errors that were made over a 60 minute game. I'm an old timer and I've watched ACC sports for over 50 years. I can assure you that in that time frame, UNC has received the better of the officiating over CU by an extremely wide margin. Again, a biased opinion.

 

[gunslingerdick]

That is a perspective from a Tar Heel fan, and that's fine. You must understand your own bias, just as CU fans like myself have to acknowledge our bias. As a Clemson fan, I can show you 10-12 blatant holding calls on Spain that were not whistled. CU had 2 DEs that simply dominated your OTs, and there was not 1 holding call that I remember the entire night. If the game had been called "perfectly", I believe CU would have won handily. That is clearly a biased opinion, and I admit it. Even if the onsides kick play had been called correctly, you still lose because there was targeting on #48 that was not called. This is very similar to the Duke/UM game where everyone complains about the knee being down and the illegal block on UM during the final play. They fail to mention 2 bogus pass interference penalties that allowed Duke to score just minutes before. You can't focus on one play toward the end of the game when there were clearly errors that were made over a 60 minute game. I'm an old timer and I've watched ACC sports for over 50 years. I can assure you that in that time frame, UNC has received the better of the officiating over CU by an extremely wide margin.

I pretty much agree with all of that.

 

[kylep45]

I see offsides on kickoffs all the time. NFL, high school, college. Rarely is offsides called. I'd like to know how many times it was called this year in the ACC. I'd bet it is single digits. Gets called in ACCCG when it didn't even happen. Just bad luck I suppose.

 

[The tigerdoc]

I see offsides on kickoffs all the time. NFL, high school, college. Rarely is offsides called. I'd like to know how many times it was called this year in the ACC. I'd bet it is single digits. Gets called in ACCCG when it didn't even happen. Just bad luck I suppose.

It was a terrible call, no doubt. I hope posters don't think that my posts in any way suggest otherwise. These kinds of calls are hard to explain, but I don't think it was a deliberate attempt to influence the outcome. I have seen worse calls in games where the outcome was less important. CU was playing NCS a few years ago at Littlejohn. CU had a 2 point lead with just seconds to go and State had 1 free throw. It was obvious that State would have to deliberately miss the free throw to have a chance. So if you are officiating the game, there are certain things you HAVE to be looking for. State misses the shot, while the shooter rushed across the line well before the ball hits the rim, and the State players on the lane literally lock their arms around the CU players and pull them to the ground. State ties the game & then win in OT. This was just a regular season BB game with no extreme ramifications, yet an absolutely horrible job was done by the officials. I can't explain it.

 

[heelmanwilm]

millions of dollars?
espn or si might buy you a cup of coffee at starbucks for this story and that's about it.

Lol dude please. A story revealing that a conference bought off officials to help a team win would be the story OF THE CENTURY and worth millions to whomever has the evidence.

 

[Archer2]

That is a perspective from a Tar Heel fan, and that's fine. You must understand your own bias, just as CU fans like myself have to acknowledge our bias. As a Clemson fan, I can show you 10-12 blatant holding calls on Spain that were not whistled. CU had 2 DEs that simply dominated your OTs, and there was not 1 holding call that I remember the entire night. If the game had been called "perfectly", I believe CU would have won handily. That is clearly a biased opinion, and I admit it. Even if the onsides kick play had been called correctly, you still lose because there was targeting on #48 that was not called. This is very similar to the Duke/UM game where everyone complains about the knee being down and the illegal block on UM during the final play. They fail to mention 2 bogus pass interference penalties that allowed Duke to score just minutes before. You can't focus on one play toward the end of the game when there were clearly errors that were made over a 60 minute game. I'm an old timer and I've watched ACC sports for over 50 years. I can assure you that in that time frame, UNC has received the better of the officiating over CU by an extremely wide margin. Again, a biased opinion.

Almost everything you posted is utter BS.

 

[The tigerdoc]

Almost everything you posted is utter BS.

Please elaborate.

 

[BeezerHeel]

Same crew called an illegal procedure penalty on an onside kick off last time out according to Wes Durham. Said his phone blew up immediately after they called it on UNC from everyone who worked the game on both sides of the camera.

 

[PushupMan]

No there isn't. You don't know how the money is allocated. Here are the payouts from the CFP:

1-$300,000 for each school with a passing APR.
2-$50 million base payout for each P5 conference ($18 million for G5 conferences)
3-$6 million for each team selected for a semifinal game. $4 for each team selected for a non-playoff game.
4-Participating teams receive $2 million for expenses.
http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/revenue-distribution

That's it. That's all the money. The contract bowls (Rose, Sugar, Orange) are paid out based on separate agreements between each bowl and affiliated conferences. The only revenue up for grabs was the $6 million from participating in the semifinal.

Good summary, and it's actually even less than that. Had North Carolina won the game, Clemson and North Carolina would both have been in NY6 games (assuming NC didn't jump into the top 4). FSU would have been dropped to the Russell Athletic Bowl.

So instead of the ACC receiving $10 million ($6 million for Clemson and $4 million for FSU), the ACC would have received $8 million ($4 million each for UNC and Clemson).

 

[Archer2]

Please elaborate.

Clemson generated over 600 yards despite being held on almost every play? Total BS. Go back to your board.

 

[HeelFan58]

That is a perspective from a Tar Heel fan, and that's fine. You must understand your own bias, just as CU fans like myself have to acknowledge our bias. As a Clemson fan, I can show you 10-12 blatant holding calls on Spain that were not whistled. CU had 2 DEs that simply dominated your OTs, and there was not 1 holding call that I remember the entire night. If the game had been called "perfectly", I believe CU would have won handily. That is clearly a biased opinion, and I admit it. Even if the onsides kick play had been called correctly, you still lose because there was targeting on #48 that was not called. This is very similar to the Duke/UM game where everyone complains about the knee being down and the illegal block on UM during the final play. They fail to mention 2 bogus pass interference penalties that allowed Duke to score just minutes before. You can't focus on one play toward the end of the game when there were clearly errors that were made over a 60 minute game. I'm an old timer and I've watched ACC sports for over 50 years. I can assure you that in that time frame, UNC has received the better of the officiating over CU by an extremely wide margin. Again, a biased opinion.

here we go with the targeting again and holding could be called on every single play it's just funny you only see it when your team get's held. I'll say it again there was not a single sports talking head that mentioned targeting. Go back and watch every on side kick and you will see the point. Hint: It's impossible to go for a recovery with your feet.

 

[heelmanwilm]

For cryin out loud u cant call targeting when 22 people are going after a loose ball on the ground!!! Enough with that bs.

 

[UNCGridironFanatic]

Please elaborate.

Would you like me to elaborate? OK.

GFY!

 

[Archer2]

I'm not a conspiracy type guy. I very much want to believe that the ACC would not stoop to fixing games. The system is getting more corrupt every year, let's pray it hasn't yet reached that point.

TBS, officiating has reached a level of incompetency that should be impossible to ignore. Unfortunately, the ACC seems to be more concerned with covering their collective arses than in getting it corrected. Like politicians, they merely double down when they're wrong, rather than admit error. So sad.

 

[BeezerHeel]

Has no one from the ACC office admitted there was no offsides in the final 90 secs of the ACC Championship game where it was a one score game to see who possibly goes to the CFP FF? But Dook gets acknowledgement in the middle of the season by the ACC for a bad call in the Miami game on their last play?

 

[heelmanwilm]

So how does this work? Is it just swofford paying the refs out of his pocket in clandestine meetings? Without any emails or paper trails? And the refs dont let spouses or family know and never deposit the cash and never spend it for the attention it attracts? Cause thats pretty much the only way it could be pulled off.

 

[HeelFan58]

I just don't think it's conspiracy. I really don't think the ACC office is smart enough to pull that off and the refs damn sure a'int. I think this Bryan Platt wank off either 1. just didn't want Carolina to win in his subconscious 2. was tired and ready to go home. 3. Had an escort lined up for after the game. 4. Doesn't belong on a college field.

 

[heelmanwilm]

....all more probable choices than being paid by swofford. Course me shittin rainbows and butterflies is more probable than swofford paying the refs to make sure clemson wins.

 

[franklin street]

here's what happened:
swofford wants everyone to love him and he knows clemson fans don't so he felt that if he could throw this championship clemsons way when clemson fans knew they were undeserving
he could walk into the esso club anytime and be the guest of honor.
i have proof, wheres my million dollars?

 

[JimmyinVA]

the acc wanted a team in the playoffs for numerous obvious reasons. a ref would be an idiot not to be aware of that. no conspiracy -- just one individual who was probably an abc-er in college with a semi-corrupt mindset doing what he thinks is best for the conference.

 

[BigBadJake]

....all more probable choices than being paid by swofford. Course me shittin rainbows and butterflies is more probable than swofford paying the refs to make sure clemson wins.

don't know about the butterflies and rainbows ... but no way there is a conspiracy - no way ! what about the 11 games that we did win ... did not notice anything there ... certainly, there will be bias from time to time ... certainly one of the refs/umps will or could be bought ... but no way teams are conspired against by entire officiating crews, conference honchos, tv networks ... simply don't believe it

 

[JimmyinVA]

this thread is a classic example of either-or thinking. either it was a planned conspiracy involving the powers that be, or an honest mistake. how about the middle ground: one individual with a character flaw doing what he (and pretty much every non-unc fan) thought was best for the acc -- i.e., putting a team in the playoffs with all the ensuing media attention, prestige, and of course $$$$. this guy understood how big it was for the conference for clemson to win that game, and he was just preventing the disastrous outcome of unc lucking out on a fluke play (his thinking, not mine).

 

[ethanga62890]

a famous mobster once said there is too much money in college sports for the game to be decided by amateurs.

 

[6666Heel]

a famous mobster once said there is too much money in college sports for the game to be decided by amateurs.

I don't believe for a second that there was an ACC conspiracy here - as pointed out above, there's just too many moving parts, too many parties involved and the additional payoff the the ACC just isn't that huge for anyone like Swofford to even think about it, much less risking it!

But it takes about a New York minute to believe in a potential Las Vegas influence in that call, when you consider that the line on that game was Clemson by 6 - and giving the Heels (trailing by just 8) a first down at midfield at that point in time, with momentum and 3 timeouts in their pocket, that 8 point margin was in substantial danger of being reduced to 2, if not eliminated, altogether. There was plenty of cash that would have gone the opposite direction if the Heels even scored so much as a field goal (which obviously LF would NOT have gone for!!). And I think it's safe to say, if such were the case, said official's "sponsors" (if they existed) would be quite careful to transfer the "stipend" in such a manner that no one would ever think twice about it. Maybe he's a pastor of his own 'church', and it simply shows up in the collection plate at some point in the future ( seems I've heard of such a scam working in the not too distant past) or it's deposited into a Swiss account, which he can only draw upon when visiting said country at some point in the future!

If you're convinced there's a conspiracy, you need to look for it someplace besides Greensboro.

 

[HeelFan58]

here's what happened:
swofford wants everyone to love him and he knows clemson fans don't so he felt that if he could throw this championship clemsons way when clemson fans knew they were undeserving
he could walk into the esso club anytime and be the guest of honor.
i have proof, wheres my million dollars?

That's funny....Clemson undeserving

 

[ethanga62890]

I don't believe for a second that there was an ACC conspiracy here - as pointed out above, there's just too many moving parts, too many parties involved and the additional payoff the the ACC just isn't that huge for anyone like Swofford to even think about it, much less risking it!

But it takes about a New York minute to believe in a potential Las Vegas influence in that call, when you consider that the line on that game was Clemson by 6 - and giving the Heels (trailing by just 8) a first down at midfield at that point in time, with momentum and 3 timeouts in their pocket, that 8 point margin was in substantial danger of being reduced to 2, if not eliminated, altogether. There was plenty of cash that would have gone the opposite direction if the Heels even scored so much as a field goal (which obviously LF would NOT have gone for!!). And I think it's safe to say, if such were the case, said official's "sponsors" (if they existed) would be quite careful to transfer the "stipend" in such a manner that no one would ever think twice about it. Maybe he's a pastor of his own 'church', and it simply shows up in the collection plate at some point in the future ( seems I've heard of such a scam working in the not too distant past) or it's deposited into a Swiss account, which he can only draw upon when visiting said country at some point in the future!

If you're convinced there's a conspiracy, you need to look for it someplace besides Greensboro.

Yeah i was definitely saying it's the gambling part that could make it that.