The truth is a tough pill to swallow

[DSouthr]

yeah this would be a good point except almost every team Roy has had at Unc has really struggled guarding the 3.

And yet playing with the same system Roy has won 3 national titles since coming back to UNC...

Why this fixation on how we guard the 3? When we were blowing out Louisville, ND, duke didn't notice a lot of complaining about our guarding the 3, know why, because we scored, our offense clicked like it is supposed to, we hit shots and some of those were mid range shots to! The problem this season was not defense, it was poor offensive efficiency, TOs and poor free throw shooting. When the opponents score 50 in the first half, I will listen to and agree with the defense is a problem but when we struggle to get to 30points in the first half and the other team get in to the high 30s or low 40s, it is a offensive problem more than defensive one.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree. In my opinion, it appears we have suffered without the consistency of a point guard since Berry left. UNC has had great success with our PG's who were highly rated undersized guards who were excellent in college and not quite big enough for the pros to lure them out of school. Felton, Paige and Berry come to mind. Hell even back to Cota or Ty or McInnis. Starting with Jalek and then Coby, Roy got the larger guards to commit but that hasn't worked out for his system as they don't hang around long enough to lead the team anywhere. Jalek was unfortunate and no one knew Coby would be Coby but it didn't work out. Cole was one and done from the jump and Caleb is a mystery as if I understand correctly has never played PG before this year. So, i guess my point is to return to finding the highest rated 4* to 5* talent you can that doesn't quite fit the mold for NBA and things probably improve quickly. RJ seems to fit that mold if he chooses to hang around. Actually, undersized wings and power forwards work out well usually for UNC as well. Great college players, role players at best for NBA. Lynch, Donald, Hansbrough, Jawad Wiliams, Ellington all come to mind in that regard. UNC thrived when those upperclassman were combined with talented future pros like Barnes and Marvin Williams. There needs to be some adjustments in scheme but a lot of issues go away when UNC gets back to scoring 80+ per game and frequently flirts with 100 point outings. Those uncontested 3s don't sting as bad when you run it up their backs 3 seconds later for a dunk.

Yeah, good stuff, if you look at what Roy's 3 nattys with us have in common you see they were mostly Jrs and Seniors so had a lot of experience but they had one other thing in common. They had very quick, experienced, speedy, excellent ball handling PGs, a thing we have not really had since Joel.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I just never have understood what would be too sensitive information. What does that even mean? And if it's all going to come out later, why not be the first to break it? Isn't that what's good about having inside connections?

But, I agree with @HeelzLover in that throwing out that you know something but not telling us what you know is lame. Nothing good gonna come out of that. Best to not mention it at all.

 

[NCAAUCoach]

And yet playing with the same system Roy has won 3 national titles since coming back to UNC...

Why this fixation on how we guard the 3? When we were blowing out Louisville, ND, duke didn't notice a lot of complaining about our guarding the 3, know why, because we scored, our offense clicked like it is supposed to, we hit shots and some of those were mid range shots to! The problem this season was not defense, it was poor offensive efficiency, TOs and poor free throw shooting. When the opponents score 50 in the first half, I will listen to and agree with the defense is a problem but when we struggle to get to 30points in the first half and the other team get in to the high 30s or low 40s, it is a offensive problem more than defensive one.

Roy's philosophy around guarding the 3 is not new. Even in years where we are strong offensively, if we play a team that hits the 3 at a decent clip we get beat. That's why Duke gives us problems even in years where we are good. When a team hits the 3 at a consistent clip, we can struggle. In the Title years, we were fortunate as that is always an area of exposure for us. Those 3 title teams were also VERY strong with JR and SR leadership with experienced players.

We can't always outscore a team only. That's been the biggest "general" strategy with Roy Williams coached teams....that's why his best teams flat put the ball in the basket. But, when we aren't clicking on offense, the glaring defensive hole in terms of strategy looks much worse.

 

[Kadyn930]

Hey HeelzLover, hope all is well with you.

Gary is correct that there are some internal dynamics that are a bit too sensitive to put on a public message board at present. I would think that we would all be remiss if we are not patient enough to wait this out. I know that many, including myself, are not happy with what is taking place within the program currently, and most likely there will be more of the same coming in the next few days to weeks, so ready yourselves for it.

Sometimes a house gets in real disrepair and needs to be refurbished and that's how I see it personally. Does not mean I am right though, but some real tough decisions on the horizon and not just for players mind you.

I know you probably won’t answer this one but you said not just with players is that saying UNC may have some new assistants?

 

[Tarheel75]

I know you probably won’t answer this one but you said not just with players is that saying UNC may have some new assistants?

No, I am not saying that. However, there has to be an analysis done on coaching style and philosophies. Will anything change along those lines? I cannot say, but I know it will be discussed among the staff. What is happening within our program, while unusual, is not just central to UNC, as many programs are suffering similar issues, and with the NCAA mandated free year and transfer rule coupled with COVID19, what we are seeing is unprecedented and hopefully will not be the norm going forth.

 

[unchampions]

Dennis spoke the truth. We can all see it with our own eyes but Roy stubbornly fails to adjust to today’s game. Our lack of perimeter defense this year was absolutely pitiful with no adjustments made.

I agree the last two years are worrying. However, these systemic deficiencies have been part of Roy's system forever and the net tends to be positive. Remember we won in 2017 and had two very good years following. Last year we had more player-games lost to injury than any school in history, and this year many schools relying on young 5*s fizzled.

Hopefully, just a blip...but...concerned it is a trend.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I agree the last two years are worrying. However, these systemic deficiencies have been part of Roy's system forever and the net tends to be positive. Remember we won in 2017 and had two very good years following. Last year we had more player-games lost to injury than any school in history, and this year many schools relying on young 5*s fizzled.

Hopefully, just a blip...but...concerned it is a trend.

This is the most astute and rational poast on this board in the last week. Well done. I couldn't agree more. I guess there's at least reason for some concern, as you acknowledged. Two down years in a row will wear on the players, a coaching staff and fan base. But as you so succinctly put it, it seems more of a perfect storm against us the last 2 years. Last year's injuries were something out of a horror movie. No one could have dealt with the number of injuries we had and come out with a better record. Over 100 games missed by our players. That's unheard of. And then as you also stated, trying to get freshman up to speed in a year where there was no preseason workouts, limited practices, limited time spent with teammates, etc. was going to be an uphill climb. If there are chemistry issues as some seem to think, I would attribute almost all of that to not being able to team build like they have in previous years. It's strange that some here would prefer to lay that at Roy's feet rather than take into account the obstacles we faced. And yes, I recognize that all teams faced the same obstacles regarding COVID. But not every team was attempting to bring in 6 freshman and blend them with a few upperclassmen holdovers. This isn't about Brooks getting more time than he deserved. This isn't about people being mad because Leaky got more run they did. This is about not being able to build the team in the fashion that Roy is accustom to. Ask yourself, have we had many years in the past where Roy wasn't able to build chemistry? The answer is no. It's rare. So why would we assume he all of a sudden forgot how to do that.

Anyway, I'm ranting at this point but I appreciated this rational poast and wanted to acknowledge it.

 

[gauchoheel]

Roy Williams is not coaching his players to leave 3-point shooters wide open.

Not in those words. But he coaches to rotate on the strong side and have multiple guys dig down. These tactics do lead to more open 3s. Lots of other coaches do it differently, and give up far fewer 3s. It's definitely related to our defensive philosophy, which is grounded in numbers from 20-30 years ago when an open 3 wasn't such a threat.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Not in those words. But he coaches to rotate on the strong side and have multiple guys dig down. These tactics do lead to more open 3s. Lots of other coaches do it differently, and give up far fewer 3s. It's definitely related to our defensive philosophy, which is grounded in numbers from 20-30 years ago when an open 3 wasn't such a threat.

I suspect you're right. And I know my feelings on it are irrelevant but I think the 3 point shot has ruined basketball. It's certainly ruined youth basketball. Every kid now wants to be Steph Curry and if they hit 1 of 7 from 25 feet, they're proud of themselves. They could have hit 2/4 from the midrange and scored more points on better efficiency.

My proposal: The regulation basketball court needs to be widened and the 3 point shot needs to be lengthened. The purpose of implementing the 3 point shot was to entice teams to shoot a "riskier" shot and be rewarded with an extra point. If the shot is no longer "risky", then it's not serving its original purpose. Of course you couldn't move the 3 point line back much without widening the court because the short corner 3 would become a very short corner 3 and teams would then overuse that shot. But the 3 point shot needs to be a shot that is taken by good shooters and good shooters only. Move it to 24' for college and to 25' for the NBA. Frankly, those two distances still might not be enough.

 

[Tribgrywubb68]

Yeah should definitely move the line back. Idk the exact dimensions of euro ball but I’d like to see those rules etc enacted get more spacing and the refs need to stop allowing certain teams to commit 70 fouls per game and only call 10(looking at the sister Jean sweethearts Loyola)

ugly f’ing basketball gets rewarded in college way too much.

 

[bleeduncblue]

perfect time to move on. bring in Wes and push the reset button. will be rough for a couple years but then i believe we’ll be right back where we belong. GO HEELS

 

[TarHeelMark]

what we are seeing is unprecedented and hopefully will not be the norm going forth

I sure hope so. Sheesh

 

[unchampions]

Of course you couldn't move the 3 point line back much without widening the court because the short corner 3 would become a very short corner 3 and teams would then overuse that shot.

Interesting. Why not extend the 3 out far enough that the arc meets the sideline? Essentially there would be no 3 point region near the corners. There would be less area to take 3s, which would make it easier to defend. You could also move it back as far as you wanted, which would also bring down %s. Tweak it so that 2 and 3 are more balanced.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Interesting. Why not extend the 3 out far enough that the arc meets the sideline? Essentially there would be no 3 point region near the corners. There would be less area to take 3s, which would make it easier to defend. You could also move it back as far as you wanted, which would also bring down %s. Tweak it so that 2 and 3 are more balanced.

I like the corner 3 and frankly, I wouldn't have a problem widening the court because the length and athleticism of today's players allows them to take up more space on the court now, which effects spacing and passing as well.

 

[HeelzLover]

Some of us like getting those nuggets of info, & after all, to quote you “this is a message board for those of us that love the Heels”.

That's just it. He didn't give any information. He just stated he knew something but couldn't put it on a message board. Then why bring it up if u can't say what it is.

 

[TVJ]

Lol Unc been leaving 3 shooters open year in year out since Roy got here regardless of talent. I’m pretty confident it’s his defensive philosophy.

As we all know, Roy learned from Dean. Dean's philosophy was that three-point shooters won't beat you, and in his day that was true. But shooters are much better now and CAN beat you. Maybe Roy just hasn't been able (or willing) to shake the teachings of his master.

 

[2DDIMOND]

That's just it. He didn't give any information. He just stated he knew something but couldn't put it on a message board. Then why bring it up if u can't say what it is.

2 schools of thought I guess. I like knowing something is out there & look forward with anticipation. I’m pretty patient by nature though, I’m thinking you opened all your presents on Christmas Eve.

 

[gunslingerdick]

2 schools of thought I guess. I like knowing something is out there & look forward with anticipation. I’m pretty patient by nature though, I’m thinking you opened all your presents on Christmas Eve.

I hope you didn’t wait u til Christmas Day and then find all the boxes were empty. But that experience might prepare you for the message board equivalent.

 

[gauchoheel]

I suspect you're right. And I know my feelings on it are irrelevant but I think the 3 point shot has ruined basketball. It's certainly ruined youth basketball. Every kid now wants to be Steph Curry and if they hit 1 of 7 from 25 feet, they're proud of themselves. They could have hit 2/4 from the midrange and scored more points on better efficiency.

My proposal: The regulation basketball court needs to be widened and the 3 point shot needs to be lengthened. The purpose of implementing the 3 point shot was to entice teams to shoot a "riskier" shot and be rewarded with an extra point. If the shot is no longer "risky", then it's not serving its original purpose. Of course you couldn't move the 3 point line back much without widening the court because the short corner 3 would become a very short corner 3 and teams would then overuse that shot. But the 3 point shot needs to be a shot that is taken by good shooters and good shooters only. Move it to 24' for college and to 25' for the NBA. Frankly, those two distances still might not be enough.

I kind of like it. Makes the game less about just pure height. I find the modern teams more interesting then just having dominant big men. Some are certainly shooting improperly, but if anything most teams in college don't take enough threes I think.

Interesting. Why not extend the 3 out far enough that the arc meets the sideline? Essentially there would be no 3 point region near the corners. There would be less area to take 3s, which would make it easier to defend. You could also move it back as far as you wanted, which would also bring down %s. Tweak it so that 2 and 3 are more balanced.

I think this is more likely than the court being widened significantly. Not sure most see the current set-up as a problem though.

 

[gauchoheel]

That's just it. He didn't give any information. He just stated he knew something but couldn't put it on a message board. Then why bring it up if u can't say what it is.

That seems to be the modus operandi in college sports discussion, for some reason. TOS has a podcast on the transfer and basically spent 45 minutes not saying anything. I'd appreciate something like e.g., "Bacot is considering transferring and Love is more likely to declare for the draft than not" instead of "More could be coming. Stay tuned". I think it's mostly because they don't actually know anything though. I'm no insider at all, but even I could guess more roster movement is coming.

 

[Tribgrywubb68]

Ya that podcast was useless. If these are “insiders” then might as well glean info from the board instead.
Maybe if you pony up for “premium” it gets better. Who knows.

 

[heels05champs]

That's just it. He didn't give any information. He just stated he knew something but couldn't put it on a message board. Then why bring it up if u can't say what it is.

Over the years of being on here, I’ve always noticed that those are the people that don’t have any inside information but badly want people to look at them like they do.