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UNC cloud forces NCAA to redefine its academic misconduct policy

But but but PackPride, RR & Jacob Kiper all say UNC is going to get hammered. You know, because the NCAA mailed them a copy of the new NOI before they sent one to UNC.
I can't wait till those ass clowns are shut up for good.
 
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Hope your right. There is a thread on TOS about us and the NCAA. Someone is now saying they are expecting sanctions for Men's basketball. Hope they are wrong. You all can venture over there and check it out yourself.
 
Academic scandal, all classes open to everyone, NCAA ain't touching this.

When all these butthurt outsiders show up here after the ruling is made public please refrain from responding to them. We will take the trash out. Gonna get ugly.
 
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Steat said:
This will be over soon....
Click to expand...

Don't bet on it. The new NOA will reset the the clock. Go back to the original timeline and take a look. I don't expect this to end until sometime after NSD next year.
 
"In the new NCAA bylaws, impermissible academic assistance is defined in two ways:

1) “Substantial assistance” that is not generally available to the university's study body and it helps an athlete become eligible to play, receive financial aid or earn an Academic Progress Rate point.

Or 2) An academic exception that results in a grade change, academic credit or fulfillment of a graduation requirement when that exception doesn't exist for other university students and it helps an athlete become eligible to play, receive financial aid or earn an Academic Progress Rate point."

I really don't think the second case applies to men's basketball, it may to womens BB and I do think the NCAA will hammer them on this one.

But case #1 as I read it may open up pandora's box, not just for UNC BUT FOR EVERY COLLEGE PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY, NOTE i DID NOT JUST SAY D-1. Classic case, athletes at UNC or any other college in the country that gives athletic scholarships give their athletes first dibs on class selection. That is a benefit that ONLY scholarship athletes (or non-scholarship team members) have, that regular students do not have. That way with their crazy schedules athletes do not have to worry if they can get their preferred classes. Working with their academic advisors they determine the classes they want and the academic advisor gets them in the classes. Keep in mind, the academic advisors report to the college of arts & science and not to the athletic department.

But according to this case the act of giving athletes first dibs on class selection is now considered as "impermissible academic assistance" ? IN the AFAM case we had more non-athletes in those classes than athletes but athletes did get first dibs on those classes if they wanted them. There may have been some summer sessions classes held that were near but not total athlete dominated enrollments but you may expect that being the greatly reduced regular student population at the school for summer sessions and the large numbers of scholarship athletes that remain for summer sessions. Those classes, however, were not exclusive to athletes nor were there only token regular students allowed in to suggest that we allow regular students in them. During normal sessions there were more regular students in these classes than scholarship athletes. It is just athletes got first dibs on those classes and classes that are perceived as easier tend to fill up quicker than more challenging classes do.

Look at duke for example, K had the 3yr sociology major created to allow his athletes to complete their degree in 3yrs, the fact that it exists is not questioned, K champions it himself publically. I read recently that those classes are 98% scholarship athletes? And not to pick on duke but this is SOP for pretty much every school out there that has scholarship athletes and giving their athletes first dibs on class selection is SOP for ALL.

It looks like with this the NCAA has started with looking back and determining those classes were to easy and realizing they can not hang us with that because the ease of a class is not under their authority. But even thou they use it as part A and then add that the athletes getting first dibs was not something that regular students got so they add the part B defined now as impermissible just so they can get to some kind of punishment? Part A + Part B = punishment but to get the punishment they had to use algebra and divide Part A that is not under their authority by the desire to punish us and get a new rule that did not exists when those classes were being held? Part A / punishment = lets make up a rule that did not exist and hopefully we can find a way to never have to use this rule again?

It reads to me as if they have removed the lock from Pandora's box, can they possibly be stupid enough to open it? If they do, those very programs that laugh at the struggles we have been thru with this mess better now panic because now the NCAA can hit you with the very same infraction, now every clustering of athletes is punishable if athletes were given first dibs on those classes...The NCAA just went nuclear and seem to stupid to even realize it...All for the need to punish us because the media demands we be punished?

I would think this would be a situation easy won in court because the NCAA can not pass a rule now and have it apply to the past, rules & law do not work that way. But I do now expect the NCAA to try and that will blow up in their face, it could destroy the NCAA in the process if they are not really really careful.

One more item to keep in mind, we already had a NOA issued, the only questionable area was the lack institutional control but no specific charge against men's basketball or football. We found a couple more problems in women's basketball and men's soccer and maybe track, the NOA was to be modified to include these new issues and sent back to us. In that there should be NOTHING new concerning the BB or FB programs for the men.With nothing specifically aimed at the men's sports and the entire athl;etic dept hit with the institutional control we would be talking about a fine and no specific punishment for either of the 2 men sports. There were some specifics concerning womens basketball that I expect to be dicey and likely punishment for them in loss of scholarships and maybe post season ban but those specifics were not there for men's BB or FB.
 
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I was going to do a separate thread on the absolute phony and jerk this Emmert is by NOT fulfilling his TOTAL 100k pledge to UW. These NCAA types are just low life's...the way we have been jerked around makes me sick.
 
Thank you for your post David.
In our situation we will be held to the standard in place at that time (which is now a few years ago). I think that may bode well for UNC.
 
These changes will likely be referred to as the "Carolina rules" in the future since it is obvious that they are a response to our ENDLESS investigation
 
Tom79 said:
Thank you for your post David.
In our situation we will be held to the standard in place at that time (which is now a few years ago). I think that may bode well for UNC.
Click to expand...

Whispers are in the wind that the school may get the updated NOA within the next 10 days which means we may begin to see what is in it in the next 2-3 weeks. It will be interesting to see if they use this new language or if they use the language existing when we got the last NOA.
 
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1) “Substantial assistance” that is not generally available to the university's study body and it helps an athlete become eligible to play, receive financial aid or earn an Academic Progress Rate point.

Or 2) An academic exception that results in a grade change, academic credit or fulfillment of a graduation requirement when that exception doesn't exist for other university students and it helps an athlete become eligible to play, receive financial aid or earn an Academic Progress Rate point."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point #1 - The classes were offered to the entire student body so that eliminates totally the first point. Notice it says AND one of the last 2 items, does not say OR applying to all 3 circumstances. Therefore an easy grade class that IS offered to the entire student body can help an athlete remain NCAA eligible OR earn academic progress and the NCAA has no punishable situation. That is EXACTLY our case, they were not only offered to the entire student body but in normal sessions had more non-athletes than scholarship athletes.

Point #2 - The NCAA I believe has always punished for grade changes that allow for eligibility, credit for a class that was not taken. Note, it is not alleged that our players did not take the classes, only that the classes were embarrassingly easy and required little work. So they cannot say athletes did not take the classes or do the little work that was required. The classes are an embarrassment to the school for sure but every school has easy grade classes for athletes as well as regular students and yeah, this was an embarrassing easy grade course but certainly not atypical of any college at any level. Very few college students, none that I have ever talked to frankly, didn't take a few easy classes to relieve the burden of the harder classes they were also taking. I am not aware of any grade changing that is alleged to have occurred or any language to that effect as it applies to men's basketball or football.
 
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heelbent said:
Don't bet on it. The new NOA will reset the the clock. Go back to the original timeline and take a look. I don't expect this to end until sometime after NSD next year.
Click to expand...

Jim, I guess that could happen but I strongly doubt it, not unless something else that applies to men's basketball or football has been discovered since the last NOA. I seriously doubt the NCAA would not have publically made an announcement that something else has been found or at very least leaked it out to the media. The next NOA is just to be updated to reflect the issues discovered in women's basketball and soccer and everything else remain the same. I know that is exactly what Roy believes and the school and I don't see the NCAA dropping that mega bomb shell at the last minute (as much as they would love to be able to and get the media off their backs).

If the NCAA does not punish us for men's BB and Football the media will TORCH them, it is the same as the Penn St situation. But they learned from that deal and now realize they can not punish for things that happen outside of their authority.

Problem is they could try and we end up in court and we would win, that much is not the question. But while we battle it out in court we still take the beating in our 2 main revenue sports with recruits saying we have a post season ban or scholly reductions or both and still shy away from us. In other words we would be harmed but not punished with little to no regress for the undue harm brought upon us. That is the case right now actually, we have been harmed by the NCAA's dragging this out for what, 4yrs now but we have no legal cure for that harm. We have already paid a 4yr price for this and the bill has not finished being added up and yet for the price already paid we have no way of achieving cured status or credit back for future punishment. Hitting us with something we can easily win in court is nothing but additional harm that is uncurable when we win...

Note, I use the term cure, legally it means to make whole again as if the problem never existed.
 
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Word I have is UNC will follow the same time line as before once they receive the updated NOA and that the NCAA is fine with that. UNC has a high powered, very expensive law firm representing them. NCAA wants to stay out of court because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. When SACS lifts UNC's probation the writing is on the wall.
 
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heelbent said:
Word I have is UNC will follow the same time line as before once they receive the updated NOA and that the NCAA is fine with that. UNC has a high powered, very expensive law firm representing them. NCAA wants to stay out of court because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. When SACS lifts UNC's probation the writing is on the wall.
Click to expand...
Are you saying we will drag this out as much as possible, again? Isn't that shooting ourselves in the foot on recruiting?
 
Just passing on what I was told a couple of days ago. I don't get it either...unless UNC believes they can actually come out unscathed beyond women's BB and soccer. I have a hard time swallowing that the NCAA has any jurisdiction at all concerning no-show/paper classes that are approved by the school and SACS. Perhaps UNC feels the same way.
 
mikeirbyusa said:
When all these butthurt outsiders show up here after the ruling is made public please refrain from responding to them. We will take the trash out. Gonna get ugly.
Click to expand...

Here's the first opportunity for you, Mike! Some butthurt UK fan that's upset his squad couldn't get to the second weekend to play UNC haha. To be fair, it's not like he isn't experienced with what he's talking about. His team did get in trouble for their 20 years+ of cheating
 
Yo Mikey...I found a couple of toofs where that hillbilly fell after you pimp-slapped him. He'll be gummin' his 'possum from here on out. Nice work!
 
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mikeirbyusa said:
Academic scandal, all classes open to everyone, NCAA ain't touching this.

When all these butthurt outsiders show up here after the ruling is made public please refrain from responding to them. We will take the trash out. Gonna get ugly.
Click to expand...

Yep, my butt hurts. A LOT!
 
heelbent said:
Word I have is UNC will follow the same time line as before once they receive the updated NOA and that the NCAA is fine with that. UNC has a high powered, very expensive law firm representing them. NCAA wants to stay out of court because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. When SACS lifts UNC's probation the writing is on the wall.
Click to expand...

SACS has already
heelbent said:
Word I have is UNC will follow the same time line as before once they receive the updated NOA and that the NCAA is fine with that. UNC has a high powered, very expensive law firm representing them. NCAA wants to stay out of court because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. When SACS lifts UNC's probation the writing is on the wall.
Click to expand...

SACS/Probation?

The University completed a previous review with SACSCOC in June 2014 related to the academic irregularities that included sharing the various actions and initiatives taken by the University about the more than 70 reforms and actions to tighten oversight and ensure the integrity of University programs.

The University is a founding member of and has a long-standing relationship with SACSCOC. The University is accredited and in good standing with SACSCOC. The University has pledged its full and continued cooperation with SACSCOC in this review.

Updated January 21, 2015



Note: The University notified SACSCOC on March 9, 2015, of a correction in one sentence on p. 20 of the January 20, 2015 printed report. The versions of the reports posted above have been updated accordingly.

Updated March 16, 2015
 
You are gonna want to know why you are about to be banned, so that you will not be confused when it actually happens, I will explain it now.

1) You did not come here to discuss this topic, you just wanted to get your snipe in so you could run back to Wupps Wafters and join the choir of other dummys that have been banned for the same thing. You are not able to discuss facts, you want to make up your own facts to fit what you want the out come to be. Sorry but things don't work that way for the NCAA and our mods are very good at taking you, the trash out.

2) UNC fans do not go to your wuppy wafters and look to cause trouble but your fans seem to come over here in droves to do nothing but stir things up. This has been a reasonable and on topic discussion but you come in as a child and I have no doubt will very shortly be treated as one by being given time out.
 
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Tom79 said:
SACS has already


SACS/Probation?

The University completed a previous review with SACSCOC in June 2014 related to the academic irregularities that included sharing the various actions and initiatives taken by the University about the more than 70 reforms and actions to tighten oversight and ensure the integrity of University programs.

The University is a founding member of and has a long-standing relationship with SACSCOC. The University is accredited and in good standing with SACSCOC. The University has pledged its full and continued cooperation with SACSCOC in this review.

Updated January 21, 2015



Note: The University notified SACSCOC on March 9, 2015, of a correction in one sentence on p. 20 of the January 20, 2015 printed report. The versions of the reports posted above have been updated accordingly.

Updated March 16, 2015
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is kinda my understanding that SACs wanted measures put in place to prevent this kind of thing and UNC complied. I would think maybe probation would be in place until those measures were put in place but I am pretty sure that has all been complied with at this point. Even if we were on probation with them, what would that mean really, they are not going to pull accreditation for 1 rouge program and they do not decertify classes retro actively. If you already have a degree you have your degree and it is not in danger of being taken back.
 
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Yeah David, bet the wolpies can't stand this portion...but then the University does include them, they just don't know it.

The University is a founding member of and has a long-standing relationship with SACSCOC.
 
IN ADDITION, the nut jobs that so enjoy laughing at UNC educating our student athletes they need to go to this link:

http://www.tarheelblog.com/2016/4/20/11476148/unc-posts-perfect-apr-in-18-sports

UNC perfect APR in 18 sports teams! The article ends with a very thought provoking question. How is it that if AFAM was so vital to keeping grades up and yet the UNC student athletes APRs have INCREASED since the AFAM athlete enrollments stopped?

If we needed the AFAM to keep athletes grades up to eligibility level then wouldn't you have expected the APRs to tumble when those easy classes were no longer available?
 
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I hope you enjoyed your visit.

You may want to read up on the subject at hand. Your lack of insight and information is alarming.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
he expressed disappointment that Carolina kept athletes eligible through "fake classes."

The classes weren't fake. They were real. They were just really easy. So you're already 0 for 1.

He asked if UNC fans were okay with, and I'm paraphrasing, our university "cheating student-athletes and regular students out of an education by steering them towards fake classes."

No one was "cheated" out of an education. These aren't toddlers who go to the classroom their pre-school teacher tells them to go to. They are adult men and women who willingly chose their own majors and courses to take. Those that ended up not taking a useful major have no one to blame but themselves. No guns were put to any athletes' heads.

If this had happened at HIS school (I'm assuming Kentucky? But maybe it he meant JJ Daniel Middle School, who knows), he would be upset that his school hadn't fired all responsible parties and enacted policies to prevent such a thing would never happen again, obviously insinuating that UNC hasn't done this.

We've done ALL of this, big guy. AD gone. Chancellor gone. Guy in charge of the AFAM program gone. Secretary in question gone. Professor in question gone. New procedures have been put in place to ensure that it will never happen again.

Facts aren't your strong suit but I don't blame you. The media has horribly failed in their coverage of this whole thing.

ETA: since the person I was quoting has since been banned, his snippets I quoted and addressed have disappeared. Therefore, I've gone back in red and added a paraphrased version of his claims that I contested.
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
he expressed disappointment that Carolina kept athletes eligible through "fake classes."

The classes weren't fake. They were real. They were just really easy. So you're already 0 for 1.

He asked if UNC fans were okay with, and I'm paraphrasing, our university "cheating student-athletes and regular students out of an education by steering them towards fake classes."

No one was "cheated" out of an education. These aren't toddlers who go to the classroom their pre-school teacher tells them to go to. They are adult men and women who willingly chose their own majors and courses to take. Those that ended up not taking a useful major have no one to blame but themselves. No guns were put to any athletes' heads.

If this had happened at HIS school (I'm assuming Kentucky? But maybe it he meant JJ Daniel Middle School, who knows), he would be upset that his school hadn't fired all responsible parties and enacted policies to prevent such a thing would never happen again, obviously insinuating that UNC hasn't done this.

We've done ALL of this, big guy. AD gone. Chancellor gone. Guy in charge of the AFAM program gone. Secretary in question gone. Professor in question gone. New procedures have been put in place to ensure that it will never happen again.

Facts aren't your strong suit but I don't blame you. The media has horribly failed in their coverage of this whole thing.

ETA: since the person I was quoting has since been banned, his snippets I quoted and addressed have disappeared. Therefore, I've gone back in red and added a paraphrased version of his claims that I contested.
Click to expand...

I find it funny the amount of "haters" that claim to be upset that kids were cheated out of a education. How can a UK fan really say they care about kids getting a education, with the amount of OAD they produce?
Why don't they just be honest & admit they're jealous of the UNC Program & the Carolina way & want nothing more to see the UNC basketball team be found guilty of being as dirty as UKs program & its history
 
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This whole thing has gotten pretty complex but I will say any UK fan who thinks that guys like John Wall, Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, and Nerlens Noel actually got an "education" is kidding themselves. All you have to do to play basketball at Kentucky is know how to add 2+2
 
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heelbent said:
Word I have is UNC will follow the same time line as before once they receive the updated NOA and that the NCAA is fine with that. UNC has a high powered, very expensive law firm representing them. NCAA wants to stay out of court because they know they don't have a leg to stand on. When SACS lifts UNC's probation the writing is on the wall.
Click to expand...

So you're saying that UNC is going to delay the NOA for another undisclosed amount of time??? How does SACS probation getting lifted affect our perpetuated situation?

Also, is there a timeframe for all this or should we be expecting another uphill battle as far as recruiting and media scrutiny goes?
 
uncfan in ky said:
I find it funny the amount of "haters" that claim to be upset that kids were cheated out of a education. How can a UK fan really say they care about kids getting a education, with the amount of OAD they produce?
Why don't they just be honest & admit they're jealous of the UNC Program & the Carolina way & want nothing more to see the UNC basketball team be found guilty of being as dirty as UKs program & its history
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean that is it in a nut shell, as someone else says if you believe they educate kids better at Ky then it is not we that have the problem. Ky takes kids that cannot get thru UNC admissions, Ky takes kids from grade point factorys with long standing history of phoney grades to allow eligibility. Ky takes kids with street agents and handlers striking deals with their ambassador William Wesley. So don't give me that spit of Ky cares about educating their athletes, they don't give a squat about how their players are educated, they worship a coach that is the poster child for getting a kid out of his education as quick as possible.

Eric Bledsoe failed Algebra 1 but passes Algebra 2 on line? I have taken both and can tell you without doubt, you do not pass Algebra 2 without being solid in Algebra 1, it just does not happen...FACT
 
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