Very quick stuff (Clemson game)...

[gary-7]

...and this will be extremely quick, as I am out of patience for this whole process.

With the caveat that asking for a win tonight was gonna be tough on a good day --- Clemson is arguably (and I think are) the best team in the ACC, and they have size and strength, and when they can get away with crawling your back, or have guys throwing in fall-away 30 footers (whether or not they hit the rim 2 or 3 times), there's only so much you can do about that...
BUT, with that said, why would you lay back and play into their hands?

So, yeah, I had several notes, and I could ream a lotta guys for a lotta things (including giving Clemson myriad wide-open looks), but I'm tired of barking at the burglars only to have them let in the house --- so, if you want a sum-up in micrcosm, it's in the next paragraph:

- Early on when the game was competitive, we came out of a timeout with 44 and got a TO --- didn't even hafta force that one, as they fumbled one away just from being sped up --- but y'know, that's one reason you scramble. Then, seemingly eons later (with just 6 over minutes to go in the damn GAME), we start scrambling again --- and lo and behold, we forced 5 TOs and an inbounds timeout in pretty short order. But, by then the deficit was too big to erase.

So yeah, I would just love for anyone on the staff to sit down with me, and explain to me like I've never seen a basketball before, why it wasn't a good idea to do that again --- not even once --- during the 30+ minutes in between? Or, speaking of timeouts, why it wasn't a good idea to maybe use one of those when the game was on the verge of getting away in the 1st half?

Again, getting a W down there this time was gonna be a tough ask... BUT, it's NOT too much to ask that we put forth our best approach to try...

 

[alabamaheel]

...and this will be extremely quick, as I am out of patience for this whole process.

With the caveat that asking for a win tonight was gonna be tough on a good day --- Clemson is arguably (and I think are) the best team in the ACC, and they have size and strength, and when they can get away with crawling your back, or have guys throwing in fall-away 30 footers (whether or not they hit the rim 2 or 3 times), there's only so much you can do about that...
BUT, with that said, why would you lay back and play into their hands?

So, yeah, I had several notes, and I could ream a lotta guys for a lotta things (including giving Clemson myriad wide-open looks), but I'm tired of barking at the burglars only to have them let in the house --- so, if you want a sum-up in micrcosm, it's in the next paragraph:

- Early on when the game was competitive, we came out of a timeout with 44 and got a TO --- didn't even hafta force that one, as they fumbled one away just from being sped up --- but y'know, that's one reason you scramble. Then, seemingly eons later (with just 6 over minutes to go in the damn GAME), we start scrambling again --- and lo and behold, we forced 5 TOs and an inbounds timeout in pretty short order. But, by then the deficit was too big to erase.

So yeah, I would just love for anyone on the staff to sit down with me, and explain to me like I've never seen a basketball before, why it wasn't a good idea to do that again --- not even once --- during the 30+ minutes in between? Or, speaking of timeouts, why it wasn't a good idea to maybe use one of those when the game was on the verge of getting away in the 1st half?

Again, getting a W down there this time was gonna be a tough ask... BUT, it's NOT too much to ask that we put forth our best approach to try...

Gary I agree. My son watched that out of the timeout and asked where in the crap has that been. An hour later he laughed when it caused a turn over again. We may be deficient in a few spots on the court, but our coaching staff doesn’t make it any easier.

 

[tarwhiz]

Season over.
This staff will very likely be back, but I am meh.
I would be very ok if the rebuild began with the new GM and a new coaching staff.
Don't let Dook and Louisville take a two lap lead while we are shuffling chairs on the titanic

 

[Goheels83]

This whole thing needs to get blown up!

 

[Quest4Seven]

Yes. Add maybe a player capable of being emergency/spot depth, along with Blue Steel, and let's rock...

1. Hubert has not, repeat NOT "spent all summer trying to land" a starting center. He already has one. And BTW, had we landed one of our legit Center targets like the kid from Rutgers, even that was to give us a one-two punch at the 5 with a bruiser to complement JWash's skills, and there was NO guarantee of a starting job --- it would've (properly) been a competition and the minutes would have likely been split pretty evenly.

2. What Hubert HAS (quite logically) been doing is due diligence to try to a add a big-body to our frontline rotation to combat bruisers... and THAT, my friend, is precisely what the interest in the NZ kid was about. He was NEVER looked upon by the staff as being a starter here this season.

3. This Claude dude would just be a no-risk pickup of a local and experienced banger (who had a good game against us), but as I understand it, our interest came late and is pretty much a "why not?" situation, i.e., ok, if he wants to join a top-tier program, as opposed to going somewhere he'll get more minutes.

So LMAO, no, I was not "wrong". And look, man --- in all sincerity, whatever does (or more likely doesn't) happen to the roster going forward, I would just gently suggest chilling out a skosh and to get ready to watch a really good team take the floor this Fall. If what has gone on in practice this Summer is any indicator, it's gonna be a helluva lot of fun to watch and hell to play against...

JWash is our starting 5 and it would be self-defeating to do anything else.

You knocked it out of the park

 

[NathanFielder]

We have a pretty soft team. I know size is limited but rarely has there been a game where I felt UNC at least tried to play physical. Never once did anyone bump either the ball screen or the ball handler. No hard fouls during Clemson’s first half run. Or at least it seemed like Clemson was just practicing against air.

Major upgrades are needed across the board with this roster. You cannot be uncompetitive at Duke and at Clemson and be accepting of where your program is. To any people that think the eligible players should run it back, I don’t know what to tell ya, lol.

After the game Hubert said that they started the game great because it was 23-22. My have the standards changed. I recall the days a great start being leading 20-8 at the under 12. Not basically tied.

But, par for the course with this team. Can’t fall behind by 20 and come back every time against good times. Eventually the well runs dry.

But hey, at least some full court pressure worked in garbage time minutes at Duke and at Clemson!!!

 

[Goheels83]

You knocked it out of the park

Oh boy

 

[tarwhiz]

We have a pretty soft team. I know size is limited but rarely has there been a game where I felt UNC at least tried to play physical. Never once did anyone bump either the ball screen or the ball handler. No hard fouls during Clemson’s first half run. Or at least it seemed like Clemson was just practicing against air.

Major upgrades are needed across the board with this roster. You cannot be uncompetitive at Duke and at Clemson and be accepting of where your program is. To any people that think the eligible players should run it back, I don’t know what to tell ya, lol.

After the game Hubert said that they started the game great because it was 23-22. My have the standards changed. I recall the days a great start being leading 20-8 at the under 12. Not basically tied.

But, par for the course with this team. Can’t fall behind by 20 and come back every time against good times. Eventually the well runs dry.

But hey, at least some full court pressure worked in garbage time minutes at Duke and at Clemson!!!

Of those on this roster eligible to return, I am now down to 3 that I hope return.
Trimble: in a 6th man role
Powell: as the starting 3
Brown: As the 4th big.
That leaves a whole bunch of portal holes to fill. The new GM better be worth it.
Maybe a new coach while I am asking

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I could care less of any of them return honestly including the staff. They’ve all shown to be double digit losers and play well below the standard and expectations at unc.

 

[Hoops244]

Until Hubert is replaced, this will be the way of things. Every few years we make a decent run but on the whole it is a very underwhelming and mediocre product.

 

[Bubspub88]

I used to go to a handful of games a year and would actually schedule things around when UNC was playing so I could watch the games. Now, if there is nothing else going on I might watch some of the game. I do not even bother to record anymore. I have accepted that the Carolina basketball I grew up loving is gone, and it ain't coming back.

Others are running their programs like a Fortune 500 corporation while UNC is still trying to be a family-run business.

 

[chickenhunter]

I didnt watch the game at all. I never thought I would say this about UNC Basketball but Im just numb and apathetic to the team since Roy retired. Then with the added NIL shit, I just cant anymore...cant watch, cant take it, cant understand, cant give a good damn anymore. As @Bubspub88 said, the UNC basketball I loved is gone and never coming back. That's just how I feel about this program.

 

[sdingeldein]

UNC BB as us oldsters (and Hubert) learned it, has been going away for a while. Roy was talking about never having to coach effort before not long after he came to UNC. The kids have changed as they become more and more used to early adoration and looking for a payoff of some type. Even Roy didn't adjust well to the changes after 2017 and even though he said differently, I have no doubt the change in the culture and basketball culture was a major reason he retired. $$$ now rules it all. Hubert continued to preach about the school, the uniform, etc and thought that was enough to get the players he needed. He was mistaken. I was mistaken. You now buy a team. That's it. Period.

 

[tarheels0015]

Guessing we got our arse kicked again last night

 

[sctarheel30]

Guessing we got our arse kicked again last night

Ding ding ding ding we have a winner

 

[notashelbyfan]

You knocked it out of the park

NIL never has been our problem they all thought just like gary did that our team was going to be great they had their 5 in Jwash. We need a coach!!!

 

[Tarheelsman71]

only sport I still watch is college basketball. But with transfer portal and NIL it has been harder to stomach. Watching this team is making me think it might be time to hang it up and wait for them to be good again and then start watching. Hard to watch subpar performances night in and night out. Like Gary said...Hard to come away with a win at clemson with their team playing as well as they are, but if we could just put forth some quality basketball. Only way we stay relevant...PRESS PRESS PRESS! and go 13 deep on the roster to keep fresh.

 

[JovialMuse]

Appreciate the analysis. The staff has stubbornly chosen their hill to die on. There's no denying it at this point. They've had multiple breaks in the schedule to make changes and enough results pointing to the system not working. We can all debate whether it's players not executing or coaches not getting through or poor roster construction or lack of NIL, but the staff is and should always be responsible for the product on the court. If players aren't executing, sit them...we have no shortage of eager players willing to contribute and it's not like our current starters are winning very much anyway. I know the players want to win, you can see it, but there's no confidence and I think they know what the coaches are telling them isn't going to work at this point. Sorry, Hubert and staff, I appreciate your commitment to UNC but this whole thing needs to be jettisoned directly into the sun.

 

[DSouthr]

This game if I just look at the box score and not watch the game played, a very different story pops up that did not reflect the game I watched. 2 examples, box score tags Cadeau with 6 TOs? RJ runs one of those circle flares that he loves, typically he does this to get a pop up jumper or a drive to the basket, he has done this a LOT this season. But for some reason RJ stops as Cadeau passes it, ball goes out of bounds, looks really bad, TO on Cadeau but that was totally on RJ, not Cadeau. Example 2, Drake makes a hard cut down the short corner but he cuts to deep, Cadeau's oops try went off the rim because Drake took the wrong angle on the cut, yet again, TO Cadeau when Drake made the wrong cut? Cadeau's TOs were not the bone headed to casual varity in this game, maybe 1 or 2 but not all 6 as he wil get the blame for.

RJ had what 18pts, 2 assists, 3TOs? He shot the ball efficiently at at 8-14, well box score says he had a great game? But what the box does not tell you is RJ went in to savior mode, went right back to looking to take over the game again, when he did, Clemson expanded its lead hard, RJ playing one on 2, 3, 4...

And then there was Jackson, for a while there I wondered which team he was playing for? We start the game defending strong, credit Hubert for finally starting some size. We took a nice early lead but Larkin hit a couple of wide open treys because Lubin tiptoed out to him rather than closing out hard, Lubin has a habit of this but still we were solid. But then all the sudden Jackson goes totally brain dead on 3 straight possessions, either giving Clemson really easy scores or fumbling the ball, taking horrible shots. For the game, aside from hitting 3 or 4 foul shots in the closing minutes, I did not see a single positive thing Jackson did to help us in this game but I saw a LOT that hurt us. And Lubin, well if Larkin is going to hit treys from straight up, as mots Euro big men do, and hit those mid range jumpers, there isn't much Lubin will be able to do, it is pick your poison for our under sized center. Put all that together with Clemson, which may well be the best coached team in the ACC, hitting some very "fortunate" shots, you going down hard and we did.

The roster construction has left this team with a razor thin margin for error, we knew that day 1 of practice. So thin that 1 or 2 guys we depend on playing poorly slips us off the edge in to the abyss. Yesterday, the game I watched, RJ and Ian shoved us off the abyss. When RJ goes in to hero mode he pounds the ball forever outside, until all our guys are spread way out and RJ just yet again goes 1 on 1, totally leaves the team game and starts playing HORSE. At least RJ got to HOR, Ian didn't even scratch H...

 

[gary-7]

You knocked it out of the park

You can go f*** yourself, but then again, you probably already do.

 

[NathanFielder]

Appreciate the analysis. The staff has stubbornly chosen their hill to die on. There's no denying it at this point. They've had multiple breaks in the schedule to make changes and enough results pointing to the system not working. We can all debate whether it's players not executing or coaches not getting through or poor roster construction or lack of NIL, but the staff is and should always be responsible for the product on the court. If players aren't executing, sit them...we have no shortage of eager players willing to contribute and it's not like our current starters are winning very much anyway. I know the players want to win, you can see it, but there's no confidence and I think they know what the coaches are telling them isn't going to work at this point. Sorry, Hubert and staff, I appreciate your commitment to UNC but this whole thing needs to be jettisoned directly into the sun.

I know it's easy to blame it all on in-game coaching right now and Hubert definitely deserves his fair share of the blame, but this notion that this team is full of capable players is a fallacy and has been a fallacy since the preseason when people said this team could be 10-11 deep.

This is the list of dudes who can really play at this level right now at least on a semi-consistent basis:
Cadeau, RJ, Jackson, Powell, Seth

That's it. Lubin, Washington, Withers probably aren't rotational players on good teams. Tyson and Claude are mid-major level players. James Brown is a 1 year away from being 1 year away project.

I'm not alleviating any of the blame on Hubert. This is his roster so he has to own it. But this team has very few players that are actually quality players. It's a 5-deep team. I'll say it's 6-deep because someone needs to start at the 5.

 

[NathanFielder]

You can go f*** yourself, but then again, you probably already do.

 

[DSouthr]

Of those on this roster eligible to return, I am now down to 3 that I hope return.
Trimble: in a 6th man role
Powell: as the starting 3
Brown: As the 4th big.
That leaves a whole bunch of portal holes to fill. The new GM better be worth it.
Maybe a new coach while I am asking

I absolutely want Cadeau back and I do want either Jalen or Lubin back, not sure there is going to be room for them both. If, big IF, we do what I now think is in the making, I think folks will like what our roster construction looks like next season. As poorly as Jack played yesterday, I would love to see him back because you have seen the talent, that talent now has to get under control because right now the kid is completely out of control and of course I welcome Drake back, Seth absolutely and Brown of course.

We spend a lot of time being upset with our front court and for good reason for sure but our back court is a problem. That problem in shirt is RJ does snot seem to trust his team mates and Cadeau seems to trust his teammates to much. This team needs those guys to find more of a center rather than being at the extremes.

 

[tarwhiz]

Let me rephrase my answer in regards to Cadeau.
I should have said, I don't want the current immature version of him to return.
He he continues to develop more of mentally tough persona, I would welcome him back. I think we can overcome his weak perimeter game, if he can bring down his turnovers and reign in his bad body language.
As for the bigs?
I am hoping High is back to play both positions as I think he is immediately better than both Lubin and Washington.

 

[thompsjj]

DSouthr - a perfect analysis. I also was glad I actually stuck with watching this game as the box score does not reflect what happened in the game - not even close.

 

[NathanFielder]

I absolutely want Cadeau back and I do want either Jalen or Lubin back, not sure there is going to be room for them both. If, big IF, we do what I now think is in the making, I think folks will like what our roster construction looks like next season. As poorly as Jack played yesterday, I would love to see him back because you have seen the talent, that talent now has to get under control because right now the kid is completely out of control and of course I welcome Drake back, Seth absolutely and Brown of course.

We spend a lot of time being upset with our front court and for good reason for sure but our back court is a problem. That problem in shirt is RJ does snot seem to trust his team mates and Cadeau seems to trust his teammates to much. This team needs those guys to find more of a center rather than being at the extremes.

This reminds me of 2 years ago when people wanted Caleb Love back because he'd be an experienced talent returning. And when people thought losing Dmarco Dunn, Puff Johnson, Tyler Nickel, etc was like the worst thing in the world. I was really surprised that some people basically wanted that thing run back despite it showing largely over 2 years that wasn't working.

This team needs to upgrade everywhere. They were never good enough at any point this season.

It would be personnel mismanagement to bring back Cadeau with the majority of eligible players from this current roster. It just isn't a good fit. And Lubin and Washington should be the easiest dudes to replace on this roster so they should replace them. You can't play this game with Washington and hope that he's returning somewhere back to his athletic form of yesteryear.

Nothing against you obviously, I just disagree with your opinion. I mean this team wasn't close this season. I don't think this group is a better 5 and some ancillary parts away from being good. They need upgrades in skill, physicality, size.... and leadership.

 

[alabamaheel]

This game if I just look at the box score and not watch the game played, a very different story pops up that did not reflect the game I watched. 2 examples, box score tags Cadeau with 6 TOs? RJ runs one of those circle flares that he loves, typically he does this to get a pop up jumper or a drive to the basket, he has done this a LOT this season. But for some reason RJ stops as Cadeau passes it, ball goes out of bounds, looks really bad, TO on Cadeau but that was totally on RJ, not Cadeau. Example 2, Drake makes a hard cut down the short corner but he cuts to deep, Cadeau's oops try went off the rim because Drake took the wrong angle on the cut, yet again, TO Cadeau when Drake made the wrong cut? Cadeau's TOs were not the bone headed to casual varity in this game, maybe 1 or 2 but not all 6 as he wil get the blame for.

RJ had what 18pts, 2 assists, 3TOs? He shot the ball efficiently at at 8-14, well box score says he had a great game? But what the box does not tell you is RJ went in to savior mode, went right back to looking to take over the game again, when he did, Clemson expanded its lead hard, RJ playing one on 2, 3, 4...

And then there was Jackson, for a while there I wondered which team he was playing for? We start the game defending strong, credit Hubert for finally starting some size. We took a nice early lead but Larkin hit a couple of wide open treys because Lubin tiptoed out to him rather than closing out hard, Lubin has a habit of this but still we were solid. But then all the sudden Jackson goes totally brain dead on 3 straight possessions, either giving Clemson really easy scores or fumbling the ball, taking horrible shots. For the game, aside from hitting 3 or 4 foul shots in the closing minutes, I did not see a single positive thing Jackson did to help us in this game but I saw a LOT that hurt us. And Lubin, well if Larkin is going to hit treys from straight up, as mots Euro big men do, and hit those mid range jumpers, there isn't much Lubin will be able to do, it is pick your poison for our under sized center. Put all that together with Clemson, which may well be the best coached team in the ACC, hitting some very "fortunate" shots, you going down hard and we did.

The roster construction has left this team with a razor thin margin for error, we knew that day 1 of practice. So thin that 1 or 2 guys we depend on playing poorly slips us off the edge in to the abyss. Yesterday, the game I watched, RJ and Ian shoved us off the abyss. When RJ goes in to hero mode he pounds the ball forever outside, until all our guys are spread way out and RJ just yet again goes 1 on 1, totally leaves the team game and starts playing HORSE. At least RJ got to HOR, Ian didn't even scratch H...

RJ got picked by his own man on that play and even then idk if he catches that pass. It was out front. But you are right they have ran that a lot. But I do think it’s bs to call RJ out for savior mode. If he would have been guilty then the box score would have reflected it. During that stretch, you are referring to their starters were in. They subbed in three bench players one which hasn’t even played when we finally got to make a short run. You looked for an out for two of EC turnovers, but you didn’t notice RJ getting ran out of bounds for his. I understand it. We will never agree on what you see in RJ‘s play.

 

[Heelicious]

I used to go to a handful of games a year and would actually schedule things around when UNC was playing so I could watch the games. Now, if there is nothing else going on I might watch some of the game. I do not even bother to record anymore. I have accepted that the Carolina basketball I grew up loving is gone, and it ain't coming back.

Others are running their programs like a Fortune 500 corporation while UNC is still trying to be a family-run business.

UNC basketball and overall college basketball as we knew it is gone and not coming back.

But UNC basketball name, history, and player / coach etc alumni and connections and brand name still carry enough weight and allure to attract top people (coaches, players, funding) to be a top 5 program again IMO / if right coach and decisions are made. Choose from best available anywhere, not just UNC family

 

[alabamaheel]

I absolutely want Cadeau back and I do want either Jalen or Lubin back, not sure there is going to be room for them both. If, big IF, we do what I now think is in the making, I think folks will like what our roster construction looks like next season. As poorly as Jack played yesterday, I would love to see him back because you have seen the talent, that talent now has to get under control because right now the kid is completely out of control and of course I welcome Drake back, Seth absolutely and Brown of course.

We spend a lot of time being upset with our front court and for good reason for sure but our back court is a problem. That problem in shirt is RJ does snot seem to trust his team mates and Cadeau seems to trust his teammates to much. This team needs those guys to find more of a center rather than being at the extremes.

You do realize RJ averages right at 4 assists per game right? And as Gary used to do, has several blown assists by literally every big man two ft from the rim, as does EC btw.