What's all the hubbub about today with NC govt and transsexuals?

[strummingram]

Ok, then my next question is, how do you determine who is in that subset? Or asked another way... If I were to claim I identified as a woman, even though my birth certificate reads male, should I be allowed to go into the women's room? If not, why not?

Do you think these people are doing this for kicks? As a goof? I realize it's fun for you guys to be flippant about it and make these exaggerated similes because you can't empathize with someone who's different from you. I can't really understand it myself. But, I don't understand Down's Syndrome either, or rigor mortis... but, I know people with it aren't just doing it because they're bored. Now, you may not see those as similar conditions, and that's fine. I don't think comparing them to Charlie Manson not being "sane" anymore is accurate either. You ARE doing it as a goof. Theyaren't.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

Strum, serious question, do you have a daughter(s) ?

It doesn't matter if any of you have daughters because we all have mothers and women in our lives that we love and want to protect. But we can't always protect them. There were no laws when a man followed me in the restroom at the mall to harass me. I had to stand firm and tell him he'd soon know what his balls being twisted felt like to get him to leave. If you want to protect your daughters and women then teach them how to protect themselves because last time I heard perverts don't follow rules. This bathroom rule they want to keep won't do anything but give perverts a green light and cause an unnecessary disturbance when people are confused.

Also from the descriptive scenarios I've read in here, some of you might want to seek help for your deviant thoughts. They are a bit disturbing.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Ok, then my next question is, how do you determine who is in that subset?

The same way we've always chosen which bathroom to use - the honor system and common sense.

Or asked another way... If I were to claim I identified as a woman, even though my birth certificate reads male, should I be allowed to go into the women's room? If not, why not?

You could try, but if there are women inside, they're probably not going to make you feel very welcome. Because you're not transgender, you're just some guy trying to make a misguided point.

Once again, the subset we're talking about here are people who don't fit into normal boxes. A regular guy "claiming" to identify as a woman isn't going to be welcome.

There are no bathroom monitors; people are going to have to use their judgment just like they always have. How do I determine when my daughter is too old to go in the men's room with me, and I have to send her into a women's room alone? I have no idea, but when that time begins to get close, I guess I'll have to use my best judgment. Same thing.

 

[prlyles]

But, I don't understand Down's Syndrome either, or rigor mortis... but, I know people with it aren't just doing it because they're bored.

I'm no doctor but you're right, people with rigor mortis aren't bored, they're dead. It's my understanding you never recover from rigor mortis because you are suffering from a fatal case of the dead....lol

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Where have tranys been using the bathroom for all these years. Do they squat in the bushes? I've never seen one in a men's room...

 

[strummingram]

I've never seen one in a men's room...

Yes you have.

 

[tarheel0910]

It's my understanding you never recover from rigor mortis because you are suffering from a fatal case of the dead

Apparently you have never seen the show The Walking Dead. People recover from rigor mortis all the time.

 

[prlyles]

Apparently you have never seen the show The Walking Dead. People recover from rigor mortis all the time.

That's right, I never have.

 

[tarheel0910]

It doesn't matter if any of you have daughters because we all have mothers and women in our lives that we love and want to protect.

I think it matters in so far as it can give you a different perspective on the situation which provides for a better debate. Yes there are other women in our lives that we would want to protect, however I think my wife could handle herself against an older guy. My 5 and 3 year probably couldn't.

 

[tarheel0910]

That's right, I never have.

Then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

[prlyles]

Then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Now you may be on to something there.....

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Once again, the subset we're talking about here are people who don't fit into normal boxes. A regular guy "claiming" to identify as a woman isn't going to be welcome.

I realize that a lot of the tranny women really look like women and it's difficult to tell that they're any different. These aren't the people I'm referring to. I've seen several "women" who are 6'3", 225 lbs of muscle, adams apple, etc. that look like they just got out of the NFL but are wearing heels, have makeup and a wig on, and a purse. Are these people in that subset that would be made to feel welcome, or would they be unwelcome? And my point here is that, a guy with misguided intentions wouldn't just stroll into the women's room looking like your average run of the mill dude. If throwing on heels/makeup/wig/etc, and even if not really fooling anyone, was able to at least appear to be making an effort to look like a woman - he'd fit into that subset.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Do you think these people are doing this for kicks? As a goof?

The people that are really trannies? No, I obviously don't think they're doing it for kicks or a goof. But there are people out there who would. And I'm just curious where we draw the line.

I guess the question I'm asking is - should a real life Mrs. Doubtfire be allowed into the women's room?

 

[prlyles]

The people that are really trannies? No, I obviously don't think they're doing it for kicks or a goof. But there are people out there who would. And I'm just curious where we draw the line.

I guess the question I'm asking is - should a real life Mrs. Doubtfire be allowed into the women's room?

What has Mrs. Doubtfire been doing for the last 200 years?

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I think it matters in so far as it can give you a different perspective on the situation which provides for a better debate. Yes there are other women in our lives that we would want to protect, however I think my wife could handle herself against an older guy. My 5 and 3 year probably couldn't.

Well, who is sending a 3 and 5 year old in a public restroom alone? NOT ME! How stupid can you get? Forget the pervert issue... you don't send a 3 year old or 5 year old in the bathroom alone because they could get hurt if they are not able to get up on the seat by themselves or reach the water faucet. There are a number of reasons not to do that without worrying about a pervert. Hell, young girls are bullies sometimes and mean. OR they will go in there and make a mess playing in the water and paper! No, you do not send children in alone, period! There is no way I would have sent my twins in there alone. I think they were probably 12 or 13 by the time I allowed that and I am very sure they could handle a pervert, as they have before and it was just on an aisle in Walmart, not the bathroom at all. They told the jack ass to get lost and walked off. Pervs are everywhere, trust me! I have encountered plenty in my life as well as a lot of women I know. I think we need to do something about men in general. I think too much TV and/or porn has warped your stinking brains. Some of you think we are having hot girl parties in the locker rooms and public restrooms! LOL ya'll are killing me! smh

 

[tarheel0910]

Well, who is sending a 3 and 5 year old in a public restroom alone? NOT ME! How stupid can you get? Forget the pervert issue... you don't send a 3 year old or 5 year old in the bathroom alone because they could get hurt if they are not able to get up on the seat by themselves or reach the water faucet. There are a number of reasons not to do that without worrying about a pervert. Hell, young girls are bullies sometimes and mean. OR they will go in there and make a mess playing in the water and paper! No, you do not send children in alone, period! There is no way I would have sent my twins in there alone. I think they were probably 12 or 13 by the time I allowed that and I am very sure they could handle a pervert, as they have before and it was just on an aisle in Walmart, not the bathroom at all. They told the jack ass to get lost and walked off. Pervs are everywhere, trust me! I have encountered plenty in my life as well as a lot of women I know. I think we need to do something about men in general. I think too much TV and/or porn has warped your stinking brains. Some of you think we are having hot girl parties in the locker rooms and public restrooms! LOL ya'll are killing me! smh

I didn't say I was sending them in there alone. I was just trying to make the point that people's situation can affect their opinion and having more than one opinion is a good thing for debating purposes. You stated that it doesn't matter that someone has daughters, but people with daughters might disagree.

By the way, women can think and act the same way as men when it comes to having preconceived notions about what men do. You seem to imply that this is all on men. Maybe that wasn't what you were trying to do.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Where have tranys been using the bathroom for all these years. .

This is my point. Why couldn't we let well enough alone? I'm not really concerned about which bathrooms trannies are using. What's far more irritating to me is that we're having this conversation at all. Let trannies do what they want to do. But we do not have to acknowledge it. We do not have to discuss it. We do not have to bring attention to the deviant behavior. Because all that's going to do is rile up those that are against it and make it so they push back harder. The most ardent opposer of trannies was doing just fine until you forced him to acknowledge that trannies are now in his bathroom. And the trannies were doing just fine until you forced everyone to start giving the stink eye to anyone that looks out of place in their chosen bathroom. But this is what liberals do. They can't let trannies be who they are and let others be who they are. They want to force everyone to be ok with who everybody is. And that's f*cking retarded. You cannot force thought. But idiot liberals are always trying.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

What has Mrs. Doubtfire been doing for the last 200 years?

I'm not sure, that's why I was asking. And regardless of what Mrs. Doubtfire has been doing in the past - my other question is - what should be legal? Should it be legal to have a guy dress up as a woman and be allowed in the women's bathroom? That's really all I want to determine here. I think it's difficult to draw the line between someone who legitimately feels like they belong in the women's room, and someone who is pretending they feel like they belong in the women's room.

 

[bleeduncblue]

I didn't ask for, or expect "politically correct." That is not what I am referring to. I want people to be candid. I'm glad they are. It allows me to examine just exactly what, and how, they are thinking! It's important to know that. I do NOT endorse or encourage the censorship of Politically Correct language at all. I never have. I was simply making the observation of what you guys are prone to think and potentially act.

From what you have written here (and I realize that is probably not the actual person. Even though I try to portray myself EXACTLY as I am in person, I don't assume everyone else does, nor does everyone have the capacity to understand an online personality), you come off to me as someone who has intimacy issues, you have lots of shame and guilt surrounding anything sexual, toward yourself and projecting to others. Your default settings, assuming that is what you're displaying here, are set WAY too high!

Just because you have offspring that are female doesn't really mean squat in this discussion. It just means that you project your own insecurities, and presumptions about society's deviant potential (as you define deviant), in general, through them! They are likely to be able to adapt, protect, and take care of themselves just fine without your biased, and fear-based, understanding of what our society is or isn't. With any luck, they'll ignore your fears and base their opinions and attitudes on their own experience and not yours!

Sorry brother, if you've never held your baby girl in your arms, you simply cannot relate to what I'm feeling and saying. I realize there are plenty of fathers who disagree with my stance on this issue and I can respectfully debate with them.

You can argue the discrimination part, that's fine ....but you cannot argue the child safety part. Nothing personal.

 

[bleeduncblue]

And how does this law keep that from happening now????

My lord you seem dense, I'm sure it's just an act though. WITHOUT this law and the Charlotte city council bill staying in effect, men can LEGALLY go into women's restrooms and locker rooms - which should not be happening.

 

[prlyles]

My lord you seem dense, I'm sure it's just an act though. WITHOUT this law and the Charlotte city council bill staying in effect, men can LEGALLY go into women's restrooms and locker rooms - which should not be happening.

What kept them out before this law was passed?

 

[tarheel0910]

What kept them out before this law was passed?

 

[bleeduncblue]

What kept them out before this law was passed?

I already answered that and you know it. If you've forgotten, it's somewhere on page 9. Happy Friday!!

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I didn't say I was sending them in there alone. I was just trying to make the point that people's situation can affect their opinion and having more than one opinion is a good thing for debating purposes. You stated that it doesn't matter that someone has daughters, but people with daughters might disagree.

By the way, women can think and act the same way as men when it comes to having preconceived notions about what men do. You seem to imply that this is all on men. Maybe that wasn't what you were trying to do.

I meant that you don't HAVE to have daughters to get this, we all have mothers (female) and so we can all understand this. I don't think a childless person lacks compassion and desire for all children to be safe no matter what the situation. I have daughters but before I had children I wanted all children to be safe.

Yes, I am sure women do have preconceived notions about men. All we have to go by is our experiences with them and that is where I get my opinion from. My point in what I said though came from actual statistics on who is primarily committing these acts and only 3% of pedophiles are HOMOsexual and about 75% are HETEROsexual men with the remainder being women. So the issue really is not about homosexuals, trannies or women for that matter. The problem we need to deal with is primarily men who cannot control their urges and deviant behaviors. I am not saying you or anyone on this board is like that BUT some of the descriptions of behaviors I have read on here makes me wonder if there is one or two with some closeted twisted thoughts that they may or may not have acted upon or witnessed before.

 

[bleeduncblue]

If you don't have a daughter but you seem to think it's stupid for fathers to worry about this stuff, you're like the cat person who's never owned a dog giving someone dog advice. Sure, you can have a seemingly logical opinion based on observation and life experience,but at the end of the day your voice really isn't credible.

Grown mothers, wives, sisters, grandmothers and aunts are not nearly the same as our daughters, in this discussion.

 

[prlyles]

I already answered that and you know it. If you've forgotten, it's somewhere on page 9. Happy Friday!!

I'm sorry you're right you did. Your answer was: "Seriously, you cannot answer that? The signs on the doors ... the women who would immediately react if a man walked into their shower ... common sense, self policing .. need I go on? c'mon, you're not that stupid". Now I have another question. How does this law stop any of that from being done now?

 

[tarheel0910]

I meant that you don't HAVE to have daughters to get this, we all have mothers (female) and so we can all understand this. I don't think a childless person lacks compassion and desire for all children to be safe no matter what the situation. I have daughters but before I had children I wanted all children to be safe.

I don't think anyone has said that a childless person doesn't want people to be safe. Once again my point was that people can disagree on the subject due to their personal lives/experiences. Just because one disagrees with you doesn't make their opinion any less valid.

My point in what I said though came from actual statistics on who is primarily committing these acts and only 3% of pedophiles are HOMOsexual and about 75% are HETEROsexual men with the remainder being women.

Where are you pulling these stats from. I'm not trying to disagree with you about them, I'm just curious as to where they came from.

 

[strummingram]

If you don't have a daughter but you seem to think it's stupid for fathers to worry about this stuff, you're like the cat person who's never owned a dog giving someone dog advice. Sure, you can have a seemingly logical opinion based on observation and life experience,but at the end of the day your voice really isn't credible.

Grown mothers, wives, sisters, grandmothers and aunts are not nearly the same as our daughters, in this discussion.

Dude, you're afraid of just about EVERYTHING in this context. Sex=shame for you. So, your whole perception is distorted with fear. You've even admitted, openly, how you yourself think in terms of potentially deviant behavior. You even described what you would have become if it weren't for these laws and assumed all men would have become that way. If anything, YOU are in the minority here. I dunno what you experienced in your life to make you so fearful of this, but it was severe, apparently.

This is not about gender at all. This is about seeing another PERSON and being empathetic. If you want to put this in a paternal instinct context- Imagine your "baby girl" growing up and there was a prevalence of a Y chromosome in her and she felt more like a male. Can you drop your fears long enough to want her to feel she is accepted and can go to a toilet that she feels like best represents her identity?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

Yes you have.

I don't recall ever seeing you there...

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

I don't recall ever seeing you there...

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

If you don't have a daughter but you seem to think it's stupid for fathers to worry about this stuff, you're like the cat person who's never owned a dog giving someone dog advice. Sure, you can have a seemingly logical opinion based on observation and life experience,but at the end of the day your voice really isn't credible.

Grown mothers, wives, sisters, grandmothers and aunts are not nearly the same as our daughters, in this discussion.

well I disagree... in fact, I believe all people, regardless of gender, deserves the same care, safety and concern. I love my daughters and value their safety just as much as I do my own, my mother, my father, nieces, nephews, sisters, brother, aunts, uncles, friends and my friends parents and siblings, nieces and nephews. Love is love and care is care... there are plenty of people who don't have husbands/wives/children who care just as much and some who have all of it and could give two shits about their own or others. It is measured by how much a person's soul is able to love that determines that character, not what or who they have in their life.

 

[strummingram]

But we do not have to acknowledge it. We do not have to discuss it.

YES, you do. Otherwise, these people- who have ALWAYS existed- would still be living in the closet and shadows of society. People who have difficulty accepting and understanding what is different from them are the ones who will have to be inconvenienced here. Sorry. Your life is not being limited. Sometimes you have things that you don't understand... but you learn that it is understandable. That is called growing!

We do not have to bring attention to the deviant behavior.

There is nothing deviant about this at all. The only thing that is deviant about it is what you associate with it. That's how it is with everything in life. "Nothing is good or bad, lest thought make it so."

You cannot force thought.

Wrong! You can absolutely force THOUGHT! You cannot force ACTION! I am forcing thought on you right now! That is what Liberty is! To quote Mr. Orwell:

How you ACT on that is up to you. You can continue acting ignorant, but your mind and conscience won't appreciate it. If anything, you teach yourself how to deny thoughts that bother you. If nothing ever bothers you, then you may as well not even exist! If you cannot change and grow, you're basically dead.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I don't recall ever seeing you there...

Uh oh. Look out. Now you'll be on the brunt end of his condescension and accusations. You'll be labeled a scaredy cat, a small-minded individual and he'll hope your offspring will rebuke your tutelage and become empathetic to all human ailments. because after all, we're all one person...or being...or some other nonsensical shit...I don't know but I'm sure you'll get to read it here in a minute.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

This is my point. Why couldn't we let well enough alone? I'm not really concerned about which bathrooms trannies are using. What's far more irritating to me is that we're having this conversation at all. Let trannies do what they want to do. But we do not have to acknowledge it. We do not have to discuss it. We do not have to bring attention to the deviant behavior. Because all that's going to do is rile up those that are against it and make it so they push back harder. The most ardent opposer of trannies was doing just fine until you forced him to acknowledge that trannies are now in his bathroom. And the trannies were doing just fine until you forced everyone to start giving the stink eye to anyone that looks out of place in their chosen bathroom. But this is what liberals do. They can't let trannies be who they are and let others be who they are. They want to force everyone to be ok with who everybody is. And that's f*cking retarded. You cannot force thought. But idiot liberals are always trying.

Well said.

 

[gunslingerdick]

YES, you do. Otherwise, these people- who have ALWAYS existed- would still be living in the closet and shadows of society. People who have difficulty accepting and understanding what is different from them are the ones who will have to be inconvenienced here. Sorry. Your life is not being limited. Sometimes you have things that you don't understand... but you learn that it is understandable. That is called growing!


There is nothing deviant about this at all. The only thing that is deviant about it is what you associate with it. That's how it is with everything in life. "Nothing is good or bad, lest thought make it so."


Wrong! You can absolutely force THOUGHT! You cannot force ACTION! I am forcing thought on you right now! That is what Liberty is! To quote Mr. Orwell:

How you ACT on that is up to you. You can continue acting ignorant, but your mind and conscience won't appreciate it. If anything, you teach yourself how to deny thoughts that bother you. If nothing ever bothers you, then you may as well not even exist! If you cannot change and grow, you're basically dead.

Oh dear...look what I've done. I've said something that made strum feel he should respond to me. Shit. I'm sorry. I take it back.

 

[strummingram]

I don't recall ever seeing you there...

Well, that's the whole point! Most of us use restrooms to pee and poop. We don't make new friends there. And, we don't make new enemies there.

The people who use it to prey upon other people are going to use it whether you pass a law or not. THAT is what I consider deviant behavior. And, depriving people of their own natural identities is a deviant behavior. God GAVE THEM that identity... respect it. God makes transexuals and God makes hermaphrodites and God makes homosexuals and God makes pedophiles. So, it might help if we follow Christ's example and love and accept them all. At least that way, the religion that was spawned after him won't look quite so hypocritical.

 

[strummingram]

Oh dear...look what I've done. I've said something that made strum feel he should respond to me. Shit. I'm sorry. I take it back.

Too late. It's there for all to see and consider. I commend you for it.

You're a wonderful, inspiring muse for me. I do some of my best work from your inspiration and participation.

 

[strummingram]

.I don't know but I'm sure you'll get to read it here in a minute.

And, so will you. I'm always flattered by your admiration and the knowledge that you read EVERYTHING I SAY.

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I don't think anyone has said that a childless person doesn't want people to be safe. Once again my point was that people can disagree on the subject due to their personal lives/experiences. Just because one disagrees with you doesn't make their opinion any less valid.



Where are you pulling these stats from. I'm not trying to disagree with you about them, I'm just curious as to where they came from.

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3

 

[gunslingerdick]

And, so will you. I'm always flattered by your admiration and the knowledge that you read EVERYTHING I SAY.

I also watch a train wreck when I see one. It's human nature. I'm surprised you didn't know that. You're constantly telling all of us how deep your understanding of the human race is. I guess Orwell never touched on that part.