Plus as a key reserve Little and Coby too can provide the offensive spark to keep us or get us going when reserves come in. That is something that hurt this years team as noone off the bench was a pretty constant offensive threat. Think how other team will feel as both teams go to the bench and we bring in Little and Coby!!!
Which Freshmen Start Next Season?
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If we start the game with Little and White on the bench, we're really going to need that spark - because the starting lineup will really struggle to score.
What makes you think that? Williams, Cam and Maye can all score. Are you attributing their scoring solely to Theo and Joel? Are you expecting them to significantly decline because those two are gone?
They can score when there is space to operate, and anytime Joel wasn't in the lineup this year our spacing went to garbage, even with Theo in the lineup in most cases.
None of those players can create offense against good defenses. They're great complementary scorers, but somebody has to create offense against a set defense - and to be very good, multiple somebodies.
Maybe Manley will become a viable post-up threat (that's a big "maybe"; he mostly scored on put-backs and dump-offs this year), but that still leaves us with no shot-creation from the perimeter.
White should be able to attack off-the-dribble. Little should be able to score in the post against wings and attack off-the-dribble against 4s. That'd open up opportunities for Kenny, Cam, and Luke.
"On the next episode of ridiculous things said on THR"
Every walk-on is like Luke Maye.
Not only this but think of it this way...
We have 120 minutes at SG, SF and PF
Cam can play SG, SF or PF
Nas can play SF or PF
So even though a good chunk of those 120 minutes are going to go to Kenny and Luke, there are plenty of minutes for Cam and Nas to split - including some time on the court together. Which could be pretty exciting.
How many minutes is enough to keep these guys happy? 25? You give all 4 of those guys (Kenny, Cam, Nas and Luke) 25 minutes and you still have 20 minutes for other guys at those 3 positions. If Luke plays some in the post, you have even more. If Coby plays half his minutes at PG, he'll still have plenty at SG.
Tellin g ya right now, I will be absolutely SHOCKED if Naz does not start, maybe not the first game but well before we get in to the ACC slate. Depends on Cam as to where he starts, Cam back Naz IMO will start at the 4 and Luke at the 5, Cam not back Naz is our 3 and I think Manley starts at the 5 (he or Brooks anyway).
White, not going to start over a healthy Kenny at the 2, could b e a battle with 7th for the starting role at the point but I think 7th has the edge but that will be an interesting battle maybe all season, White will get starter minutes IMO even if he is not in the starting line up, kid is dynamic. Fortunately we have a very experienced Kenny to play beside White and Kenny can really help his transition. I do think BJet can get some time as well as a more pass first PG with good handles and speed.
White, not going to start over a healthy Kenny at the 2, could b e a battle with 7th for the starting role at the point but I think 7th has the edge but that will be an interesting battle maybe all season, White will get starter minutes IMO even if he is not in the starting line up, kid is dynamic. Fortunately we have a very experienced Kenny to play beside White and Kenny can really help his transition. I do think BJet can get some time as well as a more pass first PG with good handles and speed.
If Nas and Colby are the best players at their position on this roster, they should start. End of story.
in 04-05, I can make the argument that Jawad was the better college player while Marvin was the better pro prospect. Jawad's numbers across the board per 40 minutes were better than Marvin. It was at least close. Jawad was a hell of a college player.
If the quality of player is significantly in favor of Nas and Colby, then they should start. I'm not going to say this will be a LD2/Kendall Marshall thing, but it was pretty clear once KM got some significant PT who the better player was. If the talent disparity is that clear, then the freshman should start.
in 04-05, I can make the argument that Jawad was the better college player while Marvin was the better pro prospect. Jawad's numbers across the board per 40 minutes were better than Marvin. It was at least close. Jawad was a hell of a college player.
If the quality of player is significantly in favor of Nas and Colby, then they should start. I'm not going to say this will be a LD2/Kendall Marshall thing, but it was pretty clear once KM got some significant PT who the better player was. If the talent disparity is that clear, then the freshman should start.
To answer the question on the video screen cap...literally every guard in the ACC.
Hope we don't have to start Luke at the 5. He needs to be able to mainly play the 4 if we want a chance to win it all. If Manley and Brooks aren't ready to play most of the center minutes we're deep trouble.
UNC and Roy hopefully won't ever throw away our tradition and loyalty/commitment to our players. If Cam comes back after a year of learning the system and an off season to work on things, Little is not starting ahead of him I don't care how much better a pro prospect he is. That's just not how we roll here. K and dook sure would do something like that but can't see Roy giving up everything he learned and has stood for. Besides if Little is going to be that significantly better than Cam to start under your scenario how is he not the top prospect and heaven help us for the god's those players above him are going to be at dook.
Seniority doesn't guarantee you a starting spot at UNC, nor should it.
How do you think Roy will look at the situation between Nas and Cam? Cam may be a Sr but he has only been with this team one year. Plus, next year he's gone. Where as Nas may or may not make the jump to the NBA. Does look at Cam the same as Kenny and give him the nod just because he's a Sr, or does he give Nas the nod because he could be the future? (This is based on them both showing that they have earned the starting roll.)
So Nas will be good enough to beat what would be a 2 year ACC starter with pretty darn good numbers with a summer to get even better in our system but not then be good enough to leave like all the others ranked as high as he is. If Nas is good enough to dominate Cam so that he starts then he ain't here a 2nd year. Which if he is that unbelievably good then what the hell are those dook kids going to be like.
Why did Bradley never start a game over Hicks then because frankly that's probably a damn good comparison as I just can't see Little being that clearly head and shoulder better than Cam. It took Cam an ACC starter a while to find his way in our system yet Nas will stroll in and instantly pick it up and be clearly better in all phases. I love Little's potential and that he is a Heel but please help me understand why it would be so wrong if he comes off the bench like so many stars before him and plays starter type minutes?
You okay? Maybe you need to slow down when reading post on a message board. Can't believe I have to explain my post to you.? <---- that is a question mark. When used, it means a question is being asked. I asked you how you think Roy might look at Cam when it comes to seniority since you mentioned Roy sticking with tradition.
Also, where did you get that I was implying that Nas would be more dominant than Cam since I never mentioned any of that? What I did say is, does Roy give the green light to Nas over Cam since Cam is gone next year but Nas could stay another year if he chooses to. This question is based on if they both prove themselves during practice such.
As far as the dookies ahead of him... When did rankings automatically mean that you were so much better than the guys below you? Does Giles ring a bell?
I would have the line up Woods, SG Williams , F Johnson, F Maye , C Manley
With Black backing up Woods , White backing up WIlliams , Little backing up Johnson and Maye and Brooks backing up Manley. I go 10 deep with err body getting a lot of minutes.
With Black backing up Woods , White backing up WIlliams , Little backing up Johnson and Maye and Brooks backing up Manley. I go 10 deep with err body getting a lot of minutes.
A few reasons:
1) Bradley and Meeks would not coexist well. Both were 5s. Isaiah was a 4.
2) Isaiah was a very good go-to scoring big. Bradley scored mostly on dump-offs and put-backs. Hicks could post-up and dribble.
Why not? Cam was the 5th best starter on a team that lost in R32. It's not like we're returning Justin Jackson. Little is an elite player who will be an NBA player in a little over a year. Will he be better than Cam? I don't know, but he certainly could be.
Nas will absolutely have growing pains. And he may never be better than Cam, in which case Cam will remain the starter. But it's an open question.
He's the highest-rated commitment we've gotten since Barnes --- who started from the get-go. Justin Jackson started from the get-go. Paige started from the get-go.
Elite players often play early. They sometimes sit when there's a strong enough incumbent - but Cam may or may not be strong enough. Time will tell.
None of them had serious competition though. When there is serious competition, the freshman doesn't win out under Roy. He can still get major minutes though and that's all that matters.
Little's situation is definitely different. But it's also different from Bradley vs Hicks, because Hicks was better than Cam and Bradley was worse than Little (probably).
Little could be sufficiently better than Cam to win the job; it's TBD at this point.
If it's your tradition that essentially your age dictates whether or not you start, that's really poor judgment. It's poor judgment in sports and poor judgment in real life. And I believe that Roy or the program doesn't have poor judgment that way.
It's also a myth.
Roy started Frasor over Quentin Thomas/Hansbrough over Byron Sanders... Why? Because Frasor and Hansbrough were significantly better players than Quentin Thomas and Byron Sanders.
Then Roy started Lawson over Frasor and Ellington over Wes Miller. Why? Because it would have been moronic to start Frasor over Lawson due to seniority... And it would've been criminal to start Wes Miller over Ellington.
"That's just not how we roll here." Yea, I'm sure it's morally wrong to start Bagley or Wendell Carter over Marques Bolden. It must have been a real Duke thing to do to start Jahlil Okafor over Amile Jefferson. LOL.
Please.... I get that UNC fans need to think EVERYTHING Duke does is bad for basketball and society, but that's just silly.
It's also a myth that K just starts freshman. He starts the better player. Matt Jones started over Frank Jackson. Amile Jefferson started over Marques Bolden. Quinn Cook started over Grayson Allen. So "K and dook sure would do something like that" is not really accurate at all.
All I'm saying is if Nas is a better player than Cam, Nas should and will start. If they're even, I'm guessing Cam would start and I wouldn't have a problem with that. This is pretty obvious stuff I'm (and many others are saying). This isn't even controversial. The better player will start... If it's really close, Cam will probably start due to experience and that's ok.
I will say this though... I do think the better isolation wing player will be really important next year. I just don't see a natural playmaker like Theo or an high IQ PG like Berry on next year's roster. If that's the case, whoever can create their own shot from the wing will be pretty important. I don't think that's really Cam's game. He's more of a catch a shoot player. So Nas is going to be really important IMO if he is a good isolation player.
I agree in those cases as they weren't even remotely close in ability. It's freaking ridiculous to bring those up ad similar. I guess my thing is why the new shiny thing is going to be so much better than a 2 year ACC starter who has another summer to develop understanding clearly what he needs to work on. You and others haven't said it's going to be close before. You have pretty much said Nas will start over Cam. You talk about our system and yet Nas will bring intensity on D and rebound and all the Other things it takes to play for Roy and not just be able to do some isolation moves on O. Will it be that bad for Nad to be coming off the bench?
Plus to back and approve much of anything about the rat and dook really makes me question your UNC ties. The rat is a pretty despicable person. He's made the college game worse while Dean and Roy have significantly made it better. go root for dook.
Hicks was light years better than Bradley last season and you couldn't start Meeks/Bradley at the same time and expect them to guard anyone for more than a few min.
This is crazy talk.
This is crazy talk.
I don't think I ever said I know definitively Nas is or will be better than Cam. I've only said if Nas is better, he should start. Again, that's not a real controversial statement. I do think Cam's production will suffer without a play maker like Theo and without a floor general like Berry because Cam's game depends on others. He's not a player that individually can break down his opponent consistently. Roy's system obviously isn't based on isolation. That's not what I'm saying. What I meant was I'm predicting our offense is going to be less fluid next year without a natural point guard. So I foresee half court offense being a problem next year... and if it's a problem, we'll probably face more late clock, 9-1-1 situations. In those situations, you need isolation players or players that can hit contested jumpers. If Nas is a good isolation player, I think that will carry an important value next year because we don't have a lot of guys that can breakdown defenses individually.
And just because I pointed out facts that Coach K doesn't sacrifice experience or loyalty for freshman to disprove your notion, it doesn't make me a Duke fan... It doesn't make me less of a UNC fan. It just means that Coach K (like every other coach in America) will almost 100% of the time start the better players when there is a position battle.
If your disdain for Coach K and Duke's program is shielding you from facts, I'm just pointing out what the facts are.
I "back and approve" starting whoever is the best player at each position. If Coach K does that, then yes, I'm in favor of that. If Roy does that, then yes, I'm in favor of that. If Coach K doesn't do that, then no, I'm against that. If Roy doesn't do that, then no, I'm against that. There are exceptions to that rule... Some guys are just better coming off the bench despite being clearly one of the 5 best players on the team. But in general, I support starting the 5 best players.
Any player is allowed to do all of that. You don't actually have to start the game to be a factor in the game. You guys are hung up on the starting label. Little will get plenty of playing time if Cam comes back. Him being the first option off the bench and getting 20-25 minutes per game isn't going to hurt us. There is no difference between that and him starting and getting 20-25 minutes. It's about who finishes, not who starts.
In my very strong opinion, Nax will be the most talented kid on our team next season with White maybe being the second most. Now that does not mean they will be better players than our more experienced guys but I see no way to keep Naz out of the starting line up. White and 7th are likely to battle all season for the lion share of the PG minutes. Now me personally, I would prefer Naz at the wing and Cam come off the bench, I could, few are gonna like my saying this, but I could even see Luke start and Naz come off the bench but Naz get more PT than Luke, especially in longer team matchups. Like you, I am not real confident with Luke at the 5 but at the same time I see the potential of Naz (George Lynch level warrior). So he starts at the wing and Cam comes off the bench or he starts at the 4 and Luke moves to the 5 because we all know Roy will have Luke in the starting lineup no matter how much I feel we will be much better next season with Manley/Brooks/Huff at the 5.
As for those bigs I just listed, rather than be worried if those fellas will step up, I am extremely excited by what I have seen in them translated to an off season of work with Jonas and crew. Manley, as I said prior to him getting to UNC, my main concern was his fitness and stamina, I think we saw that play out, strongly believe we will see this kid's stamina and strength expand a lot by start of next season and would not be shocked to see at least 10-15lbs of muscle added to his frame.
Brooks, to me it is about just working on his confidence and physicality of finishing thru contact in the paint. Love to see him explode up stronger and continue to refine and hone his mid range jumper (that I think is going to be very solid in the future). Huff, we all know, it is about skill development, very raw but very physically imposing, her is a bull in a china shop but if he can develop some type of back to the basket scoring move to go along with dunking, a jump hook, a step thru, he could be really hard to stop with his strength. May not be pretty but he has hit some mid range shots in his limited time this past season, still say he is Alec Steveson like. I am as well VERY interested to see if Walker can add some useful bulk this off season, if he can that kid is better skill wise than your typical walk on, he can shoot it folks and if you are 6'10" and can shoot the rock you can play at this level.
Sounds logical to me.
Naturally we all hope both Nas and Coby are ready to go as freshmen. (Leaky, too, but that seems less likely.) We haven't had a lot of those, for reasons already discussed.
A lot of scoring guards (Coby) have trouble getting on track at the next level and in our system. Coby looks good in clips. Maybe he'll be the exception. But Jalek looked good, too. As did Dex. Just to name a couple of scorers who struggled as freshmen. It took Marcus 2/3 of a season in the frying pan before he finally got things clicking. The season was nearly over before Roy indicated Berry would be the PG for the following year. And so on.
Nas probably has the best shot at being ready to go, based on the clips I've seen. But I'm not sure he'll be any more ready than Justin was. Not suggesting they are the same kind of player. Justin was good enough to start. But we also needed him to start. We don't need Nas to start. There isn't a void to fill at his position. But I'm reasonably sure he can if we want him to.
I recall watching a clip of Nas and Zion in the same game. Nas looked good. Zion looked better. Zion looked OAD, Nas didn't. That was then and Nas will have developed another year before he hits our court. So he might be OAD by now. We'll see.
What does Little like to be called? In this thread I've seen Nas, Nax, Naz.
He probably likes to be called something completely different. Anybody know?
Who (college or pro) does he remind people of? Dave mentioned Lynch. Is that a good comparison? I think of Nas being more of an outside-in player, whereas Lynch did his work closer in.
He probably likes to be called something completely different. Anybody know?
Who (college or pro) does he remind people of? Dave mentioned Lynch. Is that a good comparison? I think of Nas being more of an outside-in player, whereas Lynch did his work closer in.
Suppose Manley and Huff improve a lot over the summer and are capable of handling most or all of the post minutes next season. In other words, pencil in Manley-Huff at center.
How does the rest of the team slot in? Lots of options (some less probable than others), including
PG - Seventh - Coby - Andrew - Smith - Leaky - Maultsby
SG - Kenny - Coby - Andrew - BRob - Cam
SF - Cam - Nas - BRob - Leakey - Shea
PF - Luke - Brooks - Nas - Cam - Walker
C - Manley - Huff - Luke - Walker
[For those who are counting, that's 16 guys, including 4 walk-ons. Those with sharp eyes may notice that I snuck in someone who has been mentioned but isn't on board.]
I'm assuming PG is Seventh's to lose. But he'll need a backup. So there could be a real race for that. And Seventh's grip on the job isn't exactly what I'd call secure.
I'm also assuming SG is Kenny's to lose. Unless Coby turns out to be suited to PG, Coby will be Kenny's main challenge to start at SG. If Kenny makes another step forward on the offensive end, he will be hard to dislodge. If we see the same Kenny we saw this season and if Coby is the scorer we hope we got, then we might see their playing time divvied up according to whether we need offense or defense at any given point in a game. And, no, I'm not ruling out guys like BRob or Andrew making good strides over the summer.
At PF, one of the big benefits of seeing Manley and Huff step up (if that happens) would be that Brooks could then play his natural position. Which would mean less pressure on Luke. Win-win.
How does the rest of the team slot in? Lots of options (some less probable than others), including
PG - Seventh - Coby - Andrew - Smith - Leaky - Maultsby
SG - Kenny - Coby - Andrew - BRob - Cam
SF - Cam - Nas - BRob - Leakey - Shea
PF - Luke - Brooks - Nas - Cam - Walker
C - Manley - Huff - Luke - Walker
[For those who are counting, that's 16 guys, including 4 walk-ons. Those with sharp eyes may notice that I snuck in someone who has been mentioned but isn't on board.]
I'm assuming PG is Seventh's to lose. But he'll need a backup. So there could be a real race for that. And Seventh's grip on the job isn't exactly what I'd call secure.
I'm also assuming SG is Kenny's to lose. Unless Coby turns out to be suited to PG, Coby will be Kenny's main challenge to start at SG. If Kenny makes another step forward on the offensive end, he will be hard to dislodge. If we see the same Kenny we saw this season and if Coby is the scorer we hope we got, then we might see their playing time divvied up according to whether we need offense or defense at any given point in a game. And, no, I'm not ruling out guys like BRob or Andrew making good strides over the summer.
At PF, one of the big benefits of seeing Manley and Huff step up (if that happens) would be that Brooks could then play his natural position. Which would mean less pressure on Luke. Win-win.
WWJD - I guess I don't watch or understand enough, but I always thought of Manley and Brooks as interchangeable, sort of the same kind of players this year. I know, though, they were on the court together at times this year, as our sort of super-big, lots-of-development-needed, twin towers.
I guess I'm saying that as underdeveloped, and needing to improve Brooks and Manley are, I still see them BOTH as very far ahead of Huffman. Unless Huffman makes some quantam leap in basketball IQ, ability to defend, finishing skills - I think its a problem next year if he sees significant minutes. I hope the minutes at the 5 are split more between Brooks and Manley. But are you saying Brooks has the shooting skill and face-up to the basket sort of game to be a good scorer at the 4?
To me, Huffman seems to be similar to role Joel James filled for us - soak up some minutes when we were way up or way down in games, but never really part of a viable rotation, especially in close games.
Some combination of Kawhi Leonard and Gerald Wallace.
Kawhi is the best-case scenario, if his rapid skill development continues for a while. He'll probably never be nearly that good, but Kawhi is what he should shoot for.
Wallace isn't his floor exactly - Wallace was a net-positive NBA player for almost a decade, and Little could bust entirely. Wallace is basically the best case scenario if Little doesn't develop high-level offensive skills.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Brooks was used in the middle a lot this season but strikes me (and a lot of others) as very much a PF and hardly at all a Center. I think if he gets to play PF - first as Luke's backup and maybe starting there as a junior - he and we will be very pleased with the results.
Both Brooks and Luke had to play in the middle a lot this season, simply because Manley, Huff and Walker couldn't handle it. We saw Manley look pretty good, on occasion, so we're all hoping/expecting him to be very good next year.
If it happens that Huffman can't make enough gains to be a reliable backup for Sterling, then Brooks could still sub there. But at least he wouldn't be playing most of his minutes out of position. As you mentioned, there were a few stretches when Manley and Brooks were in together. It didn't kill us, but it wasn't that great. But it could be really good as these guys develop.
As for Huff, it's hard to know. His hands look a bit hard, but not as hard as Joel James' hands. So I hope that's coachable. He runs the court very well. Seems to have a good motor and plenty of enthusiasm. I think there's great potential waiting to bust out. I hope we get to see it sooner rather than later. He's a guy who might benefit from a redshirt year, but Roy doesn't seem to go for that.
The only high-ranked big we've landed in a while was Tony - and he didn't stick around. Unless something changes, these bigs could be all we have for a while. They need to improve. All of them.
Even if we were to sign EJ, that wouldn't solve our problem (in my opinion) because he just doesn't look like a center to me. He'd be another good PF, so would be a help and a fine addition. But not exactly what we need.
You should be able to vote for more than 1. I have a feeling come sometime in January both Little and White are starting. Manley and Brooks are going to have to make some serious strides. Roy is loyal to his Jr and Sr guys with playing time and starting. But he will put Frosh out on the court starting over a Soph if they are just flat out better.
btw, this is really fun to do. Trying to look into the future and guess what's going to happen is one of my favorite things to do as a sports fan.
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