White Men Can't Jump - But They Used To

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I have been thinking about whether it would be possible to create a starting lineup of UNC's great white players that would be as good as the awesome lineup we can create from our great black players. I have never started such a thread because I thought it might upset people. But what the heck. I hope we are mature enough to keep it civil and just look at the players.

So I did a quick run through the players of yore to pick out candidates. I started with Billy Cunningham, because I simply don't know the players before then.

Billy could really jump. Hence the title of this thread.

If anyone wants to add Rosenbluth and other guys from before my time, feel free. Ditto for anyone I forgot. Since I'm not all that great at telling race, feel free to correct any errors in that department, too.

I set a cut-off of a 10-point scoring average. I only broke that rule for 1 player - John Kuester, whose best average was 9.7. He played alongside and backed up Phil Ford. If you saw him play, you understand.

After a while I realized it might be more interesting if I grouped the players by decade, so I did that.

The numbers for each player are POINTS, REBOUNDS and ASSISTS. Assist numbers weren't available for all players. The numbers are the best in each player's career. Often the same year, sometimes not. I wanted to give a feel for how good they were at their best.

Unless I am miscounting or forgot someone, 5 of these guys have championship rings.

I've highlighted the 5 best numbers in each category. Only 2 guys - Cunningham and Kupchak - were among the best in 2 categories. Notice how close Luke is to joining them, if he can keep it up.

1960s
Bob Lewis -------- 27.4 8.0 NA
Billy Cunningham - 26.0 15.8 NA
Larry Miller ----- 22.4 10.3 NA
Dick Grubar ------ 13.0 3.4 2.9
Rusty Clark ------ 15.8 11.0 NA
Lee Dedmon ------- 13.8 9.4 2.8

1970s
Mitch Kupchak ---- 18.5 11.3 1.9
Dennis Wuycik ---- 18.4 6.1 2.8
Mike O'Koren ----- 17.3 7.4 3.6
George Karl ------ 17.0 3.3 5.8
Bobby Jones ------ 16.1 10.5 3.9
Darrell Elston --- 15.3 3.2 5.6
Tommy LaGarde ---- 15.1 7.6 1.2
Ed Stahl --------- 12.4 6.1 2.5
Brad Hoffman ----- 10.7 1.8 4.0
John Kuester ------ 9.7 2.2 4.0

1980s
Joe Wolf --------- 15.2 7.1 2.9
Jeff Lebo -------- 13.5 2.6 4.8
Steve Hale ------- 11.3 3.6 5.1
Matt Doherty ----- 10.5 4.0 4.2
Dave Popson ------ 10.0 4.8 1.3

1990s
Eric Montross ---- 15.8 8.1 0.8
Pete Chilcutt ---- 12.0 6.6 1.4
Serge Zwikker ---- 11.5 8.1 0.3

2000s
Tyler Hansbrough - 22.6 10.2 1.3
Kris Lang -------- 14.0 6.0 0.9

2010s
Luke Maye -------- 18.2 10.8 2.2 (so far this year)
Tyler Zeller ----- 16.3 9.6 0.9

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

So . . . who makes your team? And who are your starting 5?

With 28 guys to choose from, this won't be easy. A few picks are obvious, but then it gets hard.

 

[BillyL]

Not a UNC player, but, the Atlanta Hawks drafted Herb White in 1970. I attended a Baltimore Bullets v. Hawks game in 1971 and had an opportunity to watch the pregame warm ups, his dunks in the warm ups may be the greatest thing I have ever seen at a Pro game. Unbelievable doesn't describe it. At 6'2" 190lbs, he did some absolutely amazing things. 47 years later, that evening is still fresh in my memory . .

Anyone else remember seeing this player . . ?

From the article linked:

Known for his great leaping ability, White's nickname was "The Elevator from Decatur". He was cited by Hall-of-FamerWilt Chamberlain as the greatest dunker he ever saw during pregame warmups. He once received a standing ovation from the Madison Square Garden crowd for his pre-game dunking show.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_White

 

[gobblercalls]

Kupchak, Tyler, B.Jones, O'koren, Hale. Next 5 would be Kuester, Wuycik, LaGarde, Lebo, and Karl. I watched the 60's but was too young to remember them and have to wonder how the numbers would look if they had played after desegregation.

 

[iwish]

WWJD, are you bored?

 

[Heelswin]

You have got to inclide Lenny, TH, Joe Quigg, O'Koren, Eric, T Kearns, of course Billy C, Mitch ..... my O my ... there are so many ... havdn' we been blessed ... ???

 

[TarHeelMark]

whoa nelly...

 

[Ozheelfan]

WWJD, are you bored?

At best this seems more like a mid-July, smooth as butter thread.
Also not sure how appropriate it is to classify players based on race?

 

[iwish]

At best this seems more like a mid-July, smooth as butter thread.
Also not sure how appropriate it is to classify players based on race?

Exactly - in today’s world, just asking for trouble.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

The old-timers' team:

George Karl ------ 17.0 3.3 5.8
Bob Lewis -------- 27.4 8.0 NA
Larry Miller ----- 22.4 10.3 NA
Billy Cunningham - 26.0 15.8 NA
Mitch Kupchak ---- 18.5 11.3 1.9

Not even counting production from their subs, that's

111.3 points
48.7 rebounds

 

[soap - new and improved]

Not a UNC player, but, the Atlanta Hawks drafted Herb White in 1970. I attended a Baltimore Bullets v. Hawks game in 1971 and had an opportunity to watch the pregame warm ups, his dunks in the warm ups may be the greatest thing I have ever seen at a Pro game. Unbelievable doesn't describe it. At 6'2" 190lbs, he did some absolutely amazing things. 47 years later, that evening is still fresh in my memory . .

Anyone else remember seeing this player . . ?

From the article linked:

Known for his great leaping ability, White's nickname was "The Elevator from Decatur". He was cited by Hall-of-FamerWilt Chamberlain as the greatest dunker he ever saw during pregame warmups. He once received a standing ovation from the Madison Square Garden crowd for his pre-game dunking show.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herb_White

Sadly, very little game footage but here's all I could find on Herb.....

 

[UNCTarheel1984]

I tried to read the whole thread, but was laughing so hard once I saw the post that didn't have Larry Miller in the first OR second five, I couldn't continue. Surely a parody post. Just for the record, Miller replaces O'Koren in the starting five and if they played one-on-one for the starting spot, O'Koren may not even score.

 

[gobblercalls]

I tried to read the whole thread, but was laughing so hard once I saw the post that didn't have Larry Miller in the first OR second five, I couldn't continue. Surely a parody post. Just for the record, Miller replaces O'Koren in the starting five and if they played one-on-one for the starting spot, O'Koren may not even score.

Not all of us are old enough to remember Larry Miller or the other guys from the 60's. I'll be sure to check with you next time I need to know what my opinion should be.

 

[BillyL]

I tried to read the whole thread, but was laughing so hard once I saw the post that didn't have Larry Miller in the first OR second five, I couldn't continue. Surely a parody post. Just for the record, Miller replaces O'Koren in the starting five and if they played one-on-one for the starting spot, O'Koren may not even score.

Miller was awesome, no questions there . . but, to say that he'd hold Michael O'Koren scoreless in any kind of a game is just ridiculous.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

We could also field a pretty good Mixed race team that would have a high bball IQ AND could still jump! Lol

 

[UNCTarheel1984]

I tried to read the whole thread, but was laughing so hard once I saw the post that didn't have Larry Miller in the first OR second five, I couldn't continue. Surely a parody post. Just for the record, Miller replaces O'Koren in the starting five and if they played one-on-one for the starting spot, O'Koren may not even score.

Miller was awesome, no questions there . . but, to say that he'd hold Michael O'Koren scoreless in any kind of a game is just ridiculous.

Obviously that was hyperbole, but Miller was two time ACC Player of the Year, two time consensus All-American, named one of the ACC’s 50 greatest players ever, and was ABA rookie of the year.

 

[BillyL]

Obviously that was hyperbole, but Miller was two time ACC Player of the Year, two time consensus All-American, named one of the ACC’s 50 greatest players ever, and was ABA rookie of the year.

. . and about the same for Mr. O'Koren . .

• 2× Consensus second-team All-American (1979, 1980)
• Third-team All-American – NABC (1978)
• 2× First-team All-ACC (1978, 1980)

As of 2013, O'Koren is the only player in North Carolina history to have scored at least 1,500 points (1,765), 800 rebounds (815) and 300 assists (348). He also had 183 steals and a career field goal percentage of 57.2.

 

[ProfessorOwl]

We could also field a pretty good Mixed race team that would have a high bball IQ AND could still jump! Lol

All lightskin team. Marcus and Justin would start for sure.

 

[Ozheelfan]

How bout an all-minorities team.... Lenny Rosenbluth and Larry Brown would be there and Kane Ma would likely be a walk-on....

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

How bout an all-minorities team.... Lenny Rosenbluth and Larry Brown would be there and Kane Ma would likely be a walk-on....

Let's not forget Orlando Melendez. Every once in a while that kid would do something spectacular. I don't really know his story but it's a shame he couldn't put it all together.

I'm a little disappointed we no longer seem to have any foreign connections. We've had a few good foreigners over the years. Rodl and Okulaja come to mind. But probably not enough to make a respectable team.

 

[tarheel0910]

So is this the thread where we say happy MLK day?

 

[Heelswin]

I tried to read the whole thread, but was laughing so hard once I saw the post that didn't have Larry Miller in the first OR second five, I couldn't continue. Surely a parody post. Just for the record, Miller replaces O'Koren in the starting five and if they played one-on-one for the starting spot, O'Koren may not even score.

No need to put O'Koren down to make your point ..... he was great player in his own right!

I'llnever forget hin v. Unlv!