Who starts at the 2 guard position with Marcus gone?
- Thread starter DSouthr
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Dave, my brother... I don't dispute your logic. We both liked Nate better at the 2, and he played a lot there this season with Berry eating up 75-80% of the PG minutes... even a little bit of 2 with Marcus late in the regular season.
BUT, think back to when Marcus went down pre-season and the question was raised as to whom Roy would start opposite JB (and contrary to some lazy reporters' narratives, Paige's injury had ZERO to do with JB being our PG). I believe we both thought it would be Nate since he was set to back up Marcus anyway. But of course Roy fooled us and went with Theo, and I think that served benefits. That's why I'm thinking that unless he has to step in for JJ at the 3, Theo may be the choice if Kenny Williams can't establish himself.
As for White, this is a direct quote from Roy's post-Indiana presser during the tourney (and he said this without the least hint of humor or bluster):
"But Stilman -- and the good thing is this last week or so, I mean we let Stilman be Yogi the last couple of days in practice and he ripped those guys a new one. I'm telling you he made every shot right in Joel's face, Marcus's face, Nate's face. He's gotten a lot better. If he continues to get better he's going to play a lot of basketball for us next year."
Time will tell what Roy decides to do, but I know the guys know he can play, and I'll tell ya what, I'd trust him running the show behind JB long before I'd put 7th at Point.
One thing the jury is not out on is his defense. Made this ol' coach smile watching a dadgummed freshman with technique that sound. I'll say right now he is already our best on-ball defender among our Wings (the prospect of being guarded by a Berry/Williams backcourt would be a nightmare for opponents). Once he rehabs, if that confidence light goes on and that practice-legend 3-ball shows up KW will awfully hard to keep off the court.
Going off the fact Roy likes having two guys that can push the ball, I would say Nate gets the job.
Kenny Williams will definitely get a shot at the job. As a fan I really do not have an opinion on his abilities. I want to say he is our best option to make 3s from that position. I thought he was a little slow. Just did not see him enough to say one way or another. Nate handled the back up position for both Paige and Berry so naturally I would think Nate has the leg up.
Brandon Robinson is the guy who could force himself into the starting spot. His lenght could make our starting line up look scary, but why not just start an experienced Pinson if that is what your looking for.
Pinson is my choice, he lacks an consistent offensive game, but he is an offensive threat and demands attention. JJ should take the pressure off him because I think Roy lets JJ loose on offense if he returns and Berry will put up his fair share of shots for sure. Pinson would help on the boards for sure.
Roy Williams team = Nate Britt (can't resist another guard who can push the ball)
Kenny Williams will definitely get a shot at the job. As a fan I really do not have an opinion on his abilities. I want to say he is our best option to make 3s from that position. I thought he was a little slow. Just did not see him enough to say one way or another. Nate handled the back up position for both Paige and Berry so naturally I would think Nate has the leg up.
Brandon Robinson is the guy who could force himself into the starting spot. His lenght could make our starting line up look scary, but why not just start an experienced Pinson if that is what your looking for.
Pinson is my choice, he lacks an consistent offensive game, but he is an offensive threat and demands attention. JJ should take the pressure off him because I think Roy lets JJ loose on offense if he returns and Berry will put up his fair share of shots for sure. Pinson would help on the boards for sure.
Roy Williams team = Nate Britt (can't resist another guard who can push the ball)
Going to be GOOD at practices as these guys all fight for that spot! LOVE to be able to go watch some. 
When did I say Britt can't play SG? I said I wouldn't list him in the top 4 to play the position for us next year in my opinion.
If you can show me where I said Britt is physically unable to play the SG position I would be enlightened. I see him as a straight PG backup with our depth on the wing.
Guys! All of these guards can play the 1 or the 2--we showed all year they are basically interchangeable--we get the ball out and run..I love Nate too, looking forward for him to get a shot for serious minutes, I think his brothers '3' will motivate him more if it's possible--he's a great great young man too
I understand your line of thinking and you make good points, Theo starting when Marcus was out is a great point. BUT, ya know there is always a but with me (LOL) that was first, a temporary situation as opposed to a long term decision. Roy was impressed with Joel in practice and he was impressed by the off season work Nate put in but he did not know how that would play out in game situations. With Theo you always know you are going to get his defensive work, that is a given but how Nate would play in games based on that off season work and how Joel would react as the starting PG were more risky bets, granted Joel being the lesser risk. So I think Roy elected if he was going to take a risk go with the guy that is the better defender and that was Theo. That was a decision Roy knew would be only for a handful of early games, games against teams we should whack, unfortunately one of our losses came to NI during those few games marcus did miss.
Kenny was not ready to the extent he will be this coming season, with the experience from this past season as well as a full off season to work and develop. Would a soph kenny have seen Theo still start those early games last season with Justin still with us or with Nate's new found defensive work? Not to mention back ups like 7th and Brob also in the fold?
I just strongly feel you can not put Theo at the 2 and be developing not only kenny but 7th and maybe Brob. Roy pretty clearly to me showed us he prefers nate at the 2 because IMO (no stat to prove this) Nate maybe played the PG role less than 10% of his PT this past season, the lion share of that was Joel & marcus. But we have to have someone backing up Joel and I think Roy would prefer having Nate slid over to the point when Joel takes a rest. I may not love Nate at the point but IMO he is the best fit to back Joel up at that position. I definitely do not love 7th at the point but based on what I have seen I think we would be in better shape with 7th than Stillman. No offense to Stillman, maybe you see something I don't but I have not seen anything in games that would comfort me with he getting much PT. For the record and no offense intended, I don't see it with Luke as opposed to many others either.
In all honesty, if we have a lot of PT (lets say over 20mins a game) for Stillman and Luke and I know many don't like me saying this but I would add Nate as well, I just don't see how we can be very good, at least I do not see it at this point but I didn't expect Nate to really work on the defensive end like he did last season after what he had done the prior 2. I know that it will be EXTREMELY important that we get solid productive jump shooting out of our 2 guard position next season because easy inside scoring just is not a given IMO at this point. I believe Kenny can give us that, Nate can give us some of that, I feel like 7th and Brob can as well but I do not today trust Theo to be able to give us that. I like Theo MUCH more right now as a 3 that can swing down and play the 4 in our version of small ball. I KNOW he can do those things at a high level because he showed us just that late season and thru the post season.
I am not looking to throw any of these kids under the bus or diminish them in any way, I am just making an assessment based on what I have seen in ability, talent, and my opinion of likely-hood of production. I would rather be honest in what I see than be deceived by expectations that can not be realized.
Like you I think KW has a very bright future. But all I can say on the other part is I disagree 100% on Stilman and Luke. 7th is very talented and can be a dynamic player but his AAU experiment at PG did not go well --- cost him several spots in the rankings in fact. The PG slot is far too critical to the Carolina system to experiment here except against over-matched opponents. Speaking of PG, to be brutally honest, Nate running Point was not a pretty sight during his first two seasons. Sorry folks, it just wasn't. To his credit his PG play improved markedly this past season and cleaned up some of his old bad habits. I'm sure Nate will swing back and forth at the Guard positions, but if he starts at 2 as you think, I'll be more than happy to have Stilman as a backup PG.
I agree Mike. And if JJ returns, I like Theo spelling him at SF and playing some at PF when we go small. Ergo, I like BRob or KWill starting at SG. I think it will be BRob unless KWill's shot is greatly improved. I love his defense bit we're going to need our SG to make some treys.
Isn't it nice to be able to disagree without having to be disagreeable? That is what happens when folks respect each other, I respect gary and he myself in return so we can discuss and not always agree and still remian friends!
Ain't what Gary told me about you Dave!
Don't make me do it Mikey, don't make me have to tombstone your butt!
No one really expects that but a select few homers.
And, if you point out how silly it is you are called a bad fan and accused of throwing players under the bus.
Just stop that divisive stuff Jericho. You guys are a broken record. I imagine very few UNC fans expect Stilman to play much.
And if he is, he will have earned it. But I'm not expecting it. I leave lineups to Roy as I figure he knows the team better than I do.
I love guys like Stilman and James but I never expect a lot from them other than playing spot minutes and being great teammates. Anything beyond that is icing on the proverbial cake.
Stilman is an outstanding young man and I am glad he is a Tar Heel. He could have gone to a lesser program, UNC W for example, and probably started but he chose the Carolina big time experience.He is in all candor a mop up end of game player at this level and his in game stats sort of prove that. He was pressed into emergency duty and performed well when Butter was attacked and injured intentionally by that POS thug from Cretin.
I am sure that he adds a great deal to the team. Roy loves him and he will provide some positive leadership this season. He will continue in his role as a mop up, end of blow out player, who gets perhaps a minute or two for many games that are not close. He will play bigger minutes if, GOD FORBID, we incur injuries to any of our guards
I am sure that he adds a great deal to the team. Roy loves him and he will provide some positive leadership this season. He will continue in his role as a mop up, end of blow out player, who gets perhaps a minute or two for many games that are not close. He will play bigger minutes if, GOD FORBID, we incur injuries to any of our guards
Back to the OP, but on a related note, my feeling is that if our goal is to be in a position for a FF run that minutes for the three youngsters (KW, Woods, Rob) will help us more than Nate getting those minutes. Nate's improvement in supplementing Berry will be key and he will l be a contributor but the upside of the others is more important and requires more PT investment in my mind. I'm of the opinion that Jackson leaves but if he doesn't I still see the court time for these guys as key.
I am divisive yet someone just said he is better than our backup PG who played major minutes last year and not a peep.
You guys make no sense. We are too deep for Stilman to play. We would need numbers of injuries for him to play and I am putting all you saying he is going to play a ton of minutes down as wishing injuries on our team.
You guys make no sense. We are too deep for Stilman to play. We would need numbers of injuries for him to play and I am putting all you saying he is going to play a ton of minutes down as wishing injuries on our team.
Yeah, it is not my intent to diminish Stillman in any way, I think he is a wonderful kid and I am glad he stepped in when kendal went down and gave us best he had to give. But if I am being totally honest and I look who IMO can help us more, I see Joel as the clear cut leader at the point and gets well over 30mins a game there. I think his back up is and should be Nate but I do want to see 7th get a few minutes there every now & then just to see if we can develop some PG skills there, maybe he can't develop that but worth a try IMO.
7th tried to play the PG spot for the first time in AAU play last summer and didn't show that he was ready to be a supreme PG so his over all stock dropped. Not sure AAU is the best place to try to learn to be a PG for the first time, those circuts are more traveling all star teams than real teams. Guys are looking to show case for college coaches and scouts, looking to get their recruiting pop, just a hard place to learn to be a PG. Not saying the kid will ever be a college PG, would suggest his NBA future may require him to be a PG.
We had a guy not long back, started with Marcus when Marcus was a frosh, that came to UNC wanting to be a PG, it never really worked but he did become at very least a solid back up PG and actually played more point when Marcus was a frosh than Marcus did. But it took time to develop that and IMO if 7th becomes a PG it will as well take time, it wil take getting on court experience in that role and fortunately we have Joel and Nate to help him learn.
Let me ask you guys that feel Stillman should be ahead of 7th in the PG pecking order, would you prefer Stillman at the 2 over 7th playing beside Joel Berry? Reason I ask is that actually would be a bit of duo PG role, as it was this past season all season long, as it will be with Nate & Joel on court together next season.
Look, I am really not wanting to trash Stillman, in most cases I would gladly go along with Stillman being option 3 as our PG (this past season being a great example of just that). But 7th Woods is an amazing talent, he has some things he needs to work on for sure but this kid is going to play and I think he has more ability to play at the point as a combo guard than many realize. I know his audition for the role did not work out great last summer but don't give up on him until he has had the time to work with Roy and his staff because that can make a HUGE difference in his understanding of that role and his ability to play it.
I think Seventh would be happy with whatever PT comes his way. He has some PG skills and has had some games where he has shown he can be a playmaker. I think with his kinda speed with the ball that he needs to be given ample opportunity to develop in to being a good PG. Streaky shooter that can get to the rim and finish, his playing time @ UNC will be there for him on based on his defensive skills alone IMO . .
He is. Think Dexter Strickland as for the "combo" role. Roy will probably eventually give him some work at the 1 but that shouldn't be his main gig.
PG skills? Nope. Flip the bottom two.
Nate is quicker and faster --- Stilman is stronger, has a little better vertical (truth, BTW) and is a better passer and takes better care of the ball. Shooting could be a push.
That is 7th, a more, maybe MUCH more athletic version of Dexter. Thanks by the way, I have had a brain freeze on recalling Dexters name! I do think 7th shoots from distance better than Dexter but he does need to work on his shooting and specifically shot selection. Definitely needs to work on his ball handles, gets sloppy with it at times but that was absolutely true of Dexter when he got to UNC. Dexter, prior to UNC was a slasher finisher at the rim, good length for a guard really helped him finish over most high school guards but in the ACC what you did in high school doesn't matter. Dexter became a OK defender late for us but 7th is a much more dedicated defender than Dexter was and exponentially a better athlete. I liken 7th to a shorter version of Rodney Purvis that actually loves to defend. I actually think 7th could play the wing if needed, telling ya right now the kid is going to get solid PT, BRob will as well and not one doubt in my mind Kenny will. There are only so minutes to spread around at the 2 and IMO Nate is going to get a lot of those.
Maybe this is not the right thread for this but I love this freshman class, I think we are getting a real gem in BRob. I don't think many were prepared for that kid to have the senior season he had, you talking a kid that hit treys at a high 40% clip! I say this because I suspect folks are sleeping on BRob, they gonna be surprised with the player we get in that kid, gonna be surprised with Surrat as well but I just don't know how far he will be behind losing valuable practice time while playing football. Truth is Surrat could actually be our 3rd or even second most ready and talented PG behind Joel.
You already know how I see 7th and of course Tony is VITAL, even if it takes him a while to acclimate, that kid is special. I just wish we could have added 1 more talented front court guy, I would be thinking a great shot at getting back to the national title game had we got Bam...
Don't sell Strickland short on athleticism. He never got completely healed from the knee injury, but before that Dex was a blur --- one of the fastest guys we ever had and could jump out of the gym (which of course 7th can as well). Dex's issue was always consistent outside shooting for a Guard --- he wasn't a natural Point but couldn't shoot well enough to be a legit threat at the 2. 7th is streaky but is already a better shooter.
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