Who will we obsess about after Saturday? :-)

[NorCalTarheel]

On Saturday, around 8 p.m., we will either celebrate Zion’s commitment or pretend we never wanted him anyway. So after the 2 weeks of either high fives or lamentation, which recruit do we all obsess about next.

This year Zion has been a huge recruiting focus, last year it was Knox. Year before Ingram and before that it was....well you get the point.

Guesses? Moore is in the running but many, like me, his ship has sailed. Hurt? Gaffney?

What do you think?

 

[pln2013]

Definitely Gaffney

 

[MWHeels]

Isn't he announcing on Saturday?

 

[Heelswin]

Isn't he announcing on Saturday?

Yes ...8:00 PM

 

[RoseHeel]

Definitely Gaffney

Hard to obsess about a guy who Roy refuses to offer.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

Palm to Face smack! You are 100% correct. Anyone know how to edit my thread name

 

[pln2013]

Hard to obsess about a guy who Roy refuses to offer.

On the contrary - those are quite easy to obsess over. E.g., Joey Baker.

 

[gary-7]

On Friday, around 8 p.m., we will either celebrate Zion’s commitment or pretend we never wanted him anyway. So after the 2 weeks of either high fives or lamentation, which recruit do we all obsess about next.

This year Zion has been a huge recruiting focus, last year it was Knox. Year before Ingram and before that it was....well you get the point.

Guesses? Moore is in the running but many, like me, his ship has sailed. Hurt? Gaffney?

What do you think?

If anyone is "obsessing" that's their own fault. I'm sure as heck not... not now or then.

I never wanted Ingram, but yeah, it sucked Knox's dad took WWW's package delivery --- oh well, Jalek was ulimately our most important recruit in that class in the long run anyway.

As for this class we already got the gem in Little, and along with Coby and Leaky make it complete --- Zion is and has been a luxury. Everyone in my circle of contacts sez Clemson --- and that's what I expect --- but there's a hint we still have a chance, so hey, if Zion crosses everyone up and comes to UNC that will be fun as hell to watch for a year. If not? We good.

The biggest need for 19 has already been addressed, and I'm not so sure any ships have sailed in other positions as many like to state. There are some nice possibilities brewing. We'll be just fine.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Definitely Gaffney

Has no offer, have to believe Roy has a reason.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Palm to Face smack! You are 100% correct. Anyone know how to edit my thread name

You're welcome.

 

[dadika13]

Obsess is a bad word. If any of us obsess over one recruit then we should evaluate our lives.

Was I obsessed on our championship run last March? Guilty as charged.

 

[pln2013]

Has no offer, have to believe Roy has a reason.

There's a ton to like about Gaffney. And plenty to not like, too. I can see why Roy could be torn.

 

[gary-7]

Obsess is a bad word. If any of us obsess over one recruit then we should evaluate our lives.

Was I obsessed on our championship run last March? Guilty as charged.

Well, that's just a requirement.

 

[RoseHeel]

Roy prioritizing non-hits over hits is nothing new, sadly. There's always talk of "baggage" or "headcases", but more often than not it's unfounded.

 

[ClarktonHeel]

I read a little about recruiting but not much. After seeing what Roy did we these kids the last 2 and half seasons I believe he can coach them up and win with who ever he signs. So I no longer worry about recruiting. Roy will bring in high character kids who happen to be good basketball players.

 

[gary-7]

Roy prioritizing non-hits over hits is nothing new, sadly. There's always talk of "baggage" or "headcases", but more often than not it's unfounded.

 

[heels05champs]

I’m sure EJ Montgomery will be talked about and whether we think Roy will offer.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

You're welcome.

Thank you Mike. I quote the great Homer (Simpson)...”Doohhh!”

 

[FranktheHeel]

I think Will Baker is a guy to follow, it seems like his recruitment is going through his father who very much likes Roy as he values what Roy preaches about development, building relationships, family and the UNC way. The last I saw was that they plan on taking an official visit to UNC. This just seems to be all the right signs from the Baker family and a recruitment that Roy does well in winning as they share similar values.
He fills our need for a big in 2019 as a skilled big who has a good inside/low post game while also being able to stretch it out onto the perimeter. He certainly has good size to bang down low and I think he could really become one heck of a defender with our staff coaching him up. I think a lot of versatile bigs like Baker seeing what Luke has been able to do as a stretch 4 has opened a lot eyes and Baker having that ability to play in that mold is great for us as a way to attract him to come here.

 

[pln2013]

I think Will Baker is a guy to follow, it seems like his recruitment is going through his father who very much likes Roy as he values what Roy preaches about development, building relationships, family and the UNC way. The last I saw was that they plan on taking an official visit to UNC. This just seems to be all the right signs from the Baker family and a recruitment that Roy does well in winning as they share similar values.
He fills our need for a big in 2019 as a skilled big who has a good inside/low post game while also being able to stretch it out onto the perimeter. He certainly has good size to bang down low and I think he could really become one heck of a defender with our staff coaching him up. I think a lot of versatile bigs like Baker seeing what Luke has been able to do as a stretch 4 has opened a lot eyes and Baker having that ability to play in that mold is great for us as a way to attract him to come here.

Baker would be our best 4/5 commit in a while. Not sure who'd start, but Jr Brooks, Jr Manley, and Fr Baker could be a really nice post trio.

 

[MWHeels]

Honestly, I'm not worried about this decision at all. He has talent, and would play well in the our system. But with or without him, we still have 7 National Championships and the jerseys of Ford, Worthy, Tyler and the GOAT (not the kid from Akron) hanging in the rafters.

Go Heels!

 

[RoseHeel]

Not sure what was confusing about what I said. Every time Roy chooses not to offer some guy who has UNC interest, it's always some excuse about baggage according to some people here. Yet more times than not, it's unfounded. The list of guys who didn't get offered that didn't turn out to have issues in the end outnumbers the ones that did.

I bet when Roy chooses to not offer Gaffney, it'll be because he's a "headcase" according to the board. lol

 

[Steat]

Still predict Zion will be a Heel.

Recruiting will get more complicated folks. As for 2020 recruits, Roy probably is being careful with OAD types like Gaffney. All indications is that the NBA will repeal OAD and 2020 will be the first year that high school kids can jump directly to the NBA . Recruits like Gaffney will pose a lot of risk, to say the least. A different beast starting with 2020. Why put the significant effort in and the kid can jump directly to NBA in 2020?

 

[Archer2]

Still predict Zion will be a Heel.

Recruiting will get more complicated folks. As for 2020 recruits, Roy probably is being careful with OAD types like Gaffney. All indications is that the NBA will repeal OAD and 2020 will be the first year that high school kids can jump directly to the NBA . Recruits like Gaffney will pose a lot of risk, to say the least. A different beast starting with 2020. Why put the significant effort in and the kid can jump directly to NBA in 2020?

I thought they were leaning the opposite direction, toward requiring players be 2 years removed from high school? If they do return to drafting kids right out of high school, it will indeed make recruiting more complex. I think coaches like Roy would severely limit recruiting top 15 recruits.

I'll say one thing, Steat. You've been consistent in your Zion to UNC prediction. My gut says you may just be right, against all odds. Wouldn't that be something?

BTW, we're leading Texas for Baker in the Crystal Ball predictions but it's still very early and early leads often don't hold up. TIFWIW.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I read a little about recruiting but not much. After seeing what Roy did we these kids the last 2 and half seasons I believe he can coach them up and win with who ever he signs. So I no longer worry about recruiting. Roy will bring in high character kids who happen to be good basketball players.

That’s such a great poast.

 

[RP12]

I say we'll still be talking Zion, just now the focus will be on how he fits into our lineup!

 

[Archer2]

I say we'll still be talking Zion, just now the focus will be on how he fits into our lineup!

We'll just argue about that too. Some things never change. And that's a good thing because it's what message boards are for.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I am consistent in saying I will not bash a kid for choosing someone else since I believe it is his RIGHT! I think it is pretty stupid to say that UNC didn't want a kid they spent years and thousands of dollars recruiting when they go elsewhere! It smacks of insecurity and immaturity.

I am a Family member and I know we will be fine without the services of any one player. I also love to circle the players' chosen school so when we beat that arse, I can say, "maybe you should have chosen more wisely!" That is the worst I will say about them until/unless there is proof of any wrong doing!

 

[pln2013]

I thought they were leaning the opposite direction, toward requiring players be 2 years removed from high school?

Why would the NBA do that?

 

[Archer2]

Why would the NBA do that?

The same reason they went to a 1 year removed from high school policy. It gives them time to see recruits play against quality competition before offering an 18 year old $30 million. The owners are very much in favor of this, yet for some inexplicable reason, the players union is for eliminating the college requirement altogether.

 

[gary-7]

Not sure what was confusing about what I said. Every time Roy chooses not to offer some guy who has UNC interest, it's always some excuse about baggage according to some people here. Yet more times than not, it's unfounded. The list of guys who didn't get offered that didn't turn out to have issues in the end outnumbers the ones that did.

I bet when Roy chooses to not offer Gaffney, it'll be because he's a "headcase" according to the board. lol

First, it's not "always" an excuse, and second, baggage happens to be the actual case more often than gets discussed, if anything. There's a euphemism some writers for UNC sites often use, i.e., "there are some kids UNC can't recruit". That tells ya much of what ya need to know.

If Roy doesn't offer a kid in a position of need who obviously has the chops, that more often than not tells you Roy has seen/found out something that doesn't fit with how we do things. It might be just the way he conducts himself or interacts with his teammates/coaches (which is baggage to Roy), or it might be baggage behind the scenes. And chances are if a kid who goes somewhere else has behind-the-scenes issues, you may never see them come to light. If a program doesn't care and they don't get in NCAA trouble, hey, that's fine for them. Roy doesn't choose to take those chances.

 

[gauchoheel]

Why would the NBA do that?

Adam Silver seems pretty determined to get rid of the OAD rule. Consensus seems something like 0-and-2 could be coming, where a player can go pro out of high school but if he goes to college he has to play at least two years. Baseball already does this, though there the rule is 0-and-3.

I think the frustration on the NBA side is that it's hard to evaluate 19 year olds playing against uneven competition over just a 3-4 month window where the majority of the players they go against are way less talented. Also sometimes a guy's best use in college is way different than the role he will play in the NBA, so they aren't even developing the skills they need. NBA teams would rather have them in their development systems, or at least have a longer window to evaluate players and less yanking them around between systems.

Some links if you're interested:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/17/adam-silver-michele-roberts-ncaa-officials-one-and-done-draft-rule

"Silver is reportedly considering proposing a change that would allow players to enter the draft out of high school but force them to remain in college for two years if they do enter school. It would be a similar standard to the one in place for the MLB draft; players are allowed to turn professional out of high school, but must remain in college for three years once they enroll. "

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/adam-silver-expects-one-done-rule-change/#MsMgwdBDAVdIQP8O.97

"NBA commissioner Adam Silver says it’s “clear a change will come” to the League’s “one-and-done” rule for the Draft."

"Silver, for his part, cited three things that have dramatically shifted. The scandals are one. “It’s clearly not working for the college game,” Silver said. Second is the increase in one-and-done players declaring for the draft. There were 16 last year. Silver said the average had been about eight per year.

What’s really interesting to me is the last two No. 1 picks in the NBA draft, Ben Simmons two years ago and Markelle Fultz last year, both played with teams that did not make the NCAA tournament [LSU and Washington, respectively],” Silver said. “And I don’t think enough people are talking about that. That seems to be a sea change."

 

[gauchoheel]

And chances are if a kid who goes somewhere else has behind-the-scenes issues, you may never see them come to light. If a program doesn't care and they don't get in NCAA trouble, hey, that's fine for them. Roy doesn't choose to take those chances

I don't see how you can dismiss this Roseheel. After this shoe scandal you really think the FBI caught all the guys taking money? No way. That is a pretty valid reason to not pursue or not win the recruitment of a player.

And the mental makeup is super important too. While talent is paramount, having guys who don't want to play team-ball or can't gel with others is self-defeating. There are plenty of talented players out there, Roy doesn't have to want every one just because he is interested in UNC. That's the type of strategy a school in a weaker position than us pursues.

 

[gary-7]

Adam Silver seems pretty determined to get rid of the OAD rule. Consensus seems something like 0-and-2 could be coming, where a player can go pro out of high school but if he goes to college he has to play at least two years. Baseball already does this, though there the rule is 0-and-3.

I think the frustration on the NBA side is that it's hard to evaluate 19 year olds playing against uneven competition over just a 3-4 month window where the majority of the players they go against are way less talented. Also sometimes a guy's best use in college is way different than the role he will play in the NBA, so they aren't even developing the skills they need. NBA teams would rather have them in their development systems, or at least have a longer window to evaluate players and less yanking them around between systems.

Some links if you're interested:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/11/17/adam-silver-michele-roberts-ncaa-officials-one-and-done-draft-rule

"Silver is reportedly considering proposing a change that would allow players to enter the draft out of high school but force them to remain in college for two years if they do enter school. It would be a similar standard to the one in place for the MLB draft; players are allowed to turn professional out of high school, but must remain in college for three years once they enroll. "

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/adam-silver-expects-one-done-rule-change/#MsMgwdBDAVdIQP8O.97

"NBA commissioner Adam Silver says it’s “clear a change will come” to the League’s “one-and-done” rule for the Draft."

"Silver, for his part, cited three things that have dramatically shifted. The scandals are one. “It’s clearly not working for the college game,” Silver said. Second is the increase in one-and-done players declaring for the draft. There were 16 last year. Silver said the average had been about eight per year.

What’s really interesting to me is the last two No. 1 picks in the NBA draft, Ben Simmons two years ago and Markelle Fultz last year, both played with teams that did not make the NCAA tournament [LSU and Washington, respectively],” Silver said. “And I don’t think enough people are talking about that. That seems to be a sea change."

I support the 0-or-2 rule. The 0-or-3 rule has been a win-win for college and pro baseball, and I think 2 is more appropriate for hoops (it takes a bit longer to refine the specialized skills for baseball at that level).

 

[gary-7]

I don't see how you can dismiss this Roseheel. After this shoe scandal you really think the FBI caught all the guys taking money? No way. That is a pretty valid reason to not pursue or not win the recruitment of a player.

And the mental makeup is super important too. While talent is paramount, having guys who don't want to play team-ball or can't gel with others is self-defeating. There are plenty of talented players out there, Roy doesn't have to want every one just because he is interested in UNC. That's the type of strategy a school in a weaker position than us pursues.

Yep. And we all saw Roy have to expand his offer list when the junk was hindering us --- that is not how he likes to roll --- he's back to his normal ways of being selective with offers.

 

[FranktheHeel]

First, it's not "always" an excuse, and second, baggage happens to be the actual case more often than gets discussed, if anything. There's a euphemism some writers for UNC sites often use, i.e., "there are some kids UNC can't recruit". That tells ya much of what ya need to know.

If Roy doesn't offer a kid in a position of need who obviously has the chops, that more often than not tells you Roy has seen/found out something that doesn't fit with how we do things. It might be just the way he conducts himself or interacts with his teammates/coaches (which is baggage to Roy), or it might be baggage behind the scenes. And chances are if a kid who goes somewhere else has behind-the-scenes issues, you may never see them come to light. If a program doesn't care and they don't get in NCAA trouble, hey, that's fine for them. Roy doesn't choose to take those chances.

Couldn't have said that any better Gary. There's a reason Roy has the vetting process that he does where he talks to their coaches, teachers, family, looks at their grades, builds a relationship with the kid and the one that I think is the best is taking the advice of his players on a recruit. There's certainly things that a Coach may not see in the way a player acts, but as a kid feels comfortable with other kids his true colors may be shown. Also, kids have inner circles where they hear stories about a recruit and by the trust that Roy has with his players they are honest in telling him just that. I remember stories of Roy taking the advice of certain players at Kansas and deciding to go recruit a different player, there have probably been similar situations here at Carolina. Roy has too much integrity and cares too much about Carolina to ever put them in a situation where he has any doubt with a recruit and thinks it may hurt his team and the program. His approach is what has made him so successful as he has done things the right way without hesitation. It is also a big reason that he gets the most out of his players because he has built that strong bond with them where each side is fully aware of what they need to do for a common purpose, which is what is best for the TEAM.

 

[Archer2]

I agree, Gary. If Roy doesn't recruit a player who fits a position of need for us, it's because he has his reasons. It could be for many reasons; i.e. that he doesn't feel he has a legitimate chance of landing said recruit, that he feels said player may not fit in systematically or academically, that he feels there may be some extracurricular activity surrounding said player that makes Roy feel uncomfortable, that he simply prefers another player, etc...

Bottom line is, I trust his judgement. I really wanted us to offer Joey Baker, but after reading some things about him, I think he'll fit in better at d00k. And I think Roy sensed that Baker wasn't the best fit, hence the lack of an offer to a guy that was supposedly salivating at the thought of a UNC offer. Gaffney is supposedly a big Heel fan as well. If he is and Roy eventually offers, we'll see how it plays out.

BTW, we're still heavy favorites to land Moore according to the Crystal Ball.

 

[gary-7]

I agree, Gary. If Roy doesn't recruit a player who fits a position of need for us, it's because he has his reasons. It could be for many reasons; i.e. that he doesn't feel he has a legitimate chance of landing said recruit, that he feels said player may not fit in systematically or academically, that he feels there may be some extracurricular activity surrounding said player that makes Roy feel uncomfortable, that he simply prefers another player, etc...

Bottom line is, I trust his judgement. I really wanted us to offer Joey Baker, but after reading some things about him, I think he'll fit in better at d00k. And I think Roy sensed that Baker wasn't the best fit, hence the lack of an offer to a guy that was supposedly salivating at the thought of a UNC offer. Gaffney is supposedly a big Heel fan as well. If he is and Roy eventually offers, we'll see how it plays out.

BTW, we're still heavy favorites to land Moore according to the Crystal Ball.

Spot on, Arch. Folks also have to remember Roy likes to complete his own vetting before offering. Even if one of the staff loves a kid, he doesn't get the offer til Roy is comfortable. Also, it's easier to vet kids close to home (Moore) than guys who show up later on the radar and/or are in other regions (Gaffney).

Personally, I really like Gaffney's gifts and potential --- and as you said, he's a UNC fan --- and from all that I'd love to see us offer. That being said, I have no idea where the staff is on him at this moment, and as of yet I haven't heard any scuttlebutt about his personal situation. If I hear anything thru the grapevine I'll share it but after what we've been thru recently, fighting negative recruiting and overblown media narratives (not to mention the $henanigan$ by the usual suspects), I'm not gonna stress over any one guy, and certainly not over a sure OAD like Zion.

As a buddy of mine likes to say, "you can't sign em all". We're off to a good start by filling a need at PG in the '19 class. There's plenty of time for Roy & Co. to add to that.

 

[FranktheHeel]

And the mental makeup is super important too. While talent is paramount, having guys who don't want to play team-ball or can't gel with others is self-defeating. There are plenty of talented players out there, Roy doesn't have to want every one just because he is interested in UNC. That's the type of strategy a school in a weaker position than us pursues.

You are right on Gaucho. That is something that I think Roy really pays a strong attention to because he realizes that such an important part of having a successful team is having kids that are going to believe in and buy into what he preaches, represent Carolina in a good way and most importantly fit into the dynamic of the team. Because at the end of the day it comes down each one of those guys on the team being able to put aside any of their own personal motives and be able to connect in a way for the good of the team giving them the best chance of winning. I am a strong believer that the true makeup of a good team is not only the talent that they hold, but more importantly the chemistry they hold because a Championship is not just won by one or two guys taking the reins and running with them, it's won by the effort of each and every player that does their part to contribute to that common effort. And that is what I believe that Roy's thought process is as he recruits, as he teaches his guys in practice, pushes them to be their best, tinkers with lineups and coaches them in games.

 

[RP12]

We have gone a while without real knuckleheads to deal with and this is a credit to Roy.

PJ was a fun player to watch but obviously isn't able to get out of his own way. We've seen the destructive forces that the wrong type of guys can bring and we don't need it.