Zion
- Thread starter Nolieforlife
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Good point and one not brought up much.... Whilst a lot of attention is on Zion, I believe Leaky may end up being the steal of the class - especially if he keeps growing.
** I'm counting Black as in-state, even though he's finishing HS in Fl
Linking me to a page I cannot access does not help your case. Point is, you said "Let's ignore Rivals", yet Rivals hurts your own point even more than 247 did.
You keep trying to sidestep dadika's point, but the facts clearly show that 2017 is one of the weakest talent pools for the state of NC in years. So why you're trying to bring up 2018 or absolving Roy for something he wasn't being blamed for is beyond me.
Can you access it here?
https://ncpreps.rivals.com/news/ncpreps-com-top-40-class-of-2017-hoopsters
I'm not sidestepping anything. His point was that Roy is letting the top talent in the state of North Carolina get away. The relative skill level of a given class is not relevant to that point. The fact that Roy nabbed the #2 prospect in NC in 2017 is. The fact that he has Coby White and NC raised and recruited Rechon Black in tow for 2018 is also relevant.
Of course it is relevant. You using the "we got the #2 recruit in NC" according to some rankings means much less when that recruit is a 3 star than if it's a 5 star. That is just a fact.
I won't get petty and start with the name calling because we (well maybe not you) decided that gets us nowhere.
So Ned, you have a great day. Get out and vote today!
Go Heels
I don't know.
Think it is one of 3 possibilities:
Roy feels Brooks is more than what he is rated
Bradley is going to blow up and go pro creating a big void next year.
Brooks with a year under his belt is going to more better than whatever 2018 freshman we can land.
(kind of dovetails with my first thought a little)
Yeah, I think most HS big men don't really need moves because they just dominate with size. It's the ones that can develop a few moves and a 12-15 foot jumper that become successful in college.
OK, so like I am confused, who are these 4 star guys you would have preferred we get, did any of them express strong interest in UNC ?
As for PGs, again, confused, we have Joel right now, we have Jalek next season so why are you upset with who Roy offered?
Not buying the scandal any more because we have not yet signed a 5 star big man for this class, even thou it is down to us and Ky for one? LOL I am going to use the case of Wendel Carter, now duke has this kid all wrapped up and has now for pretty much the whole summer, sorry gary but you know man. But there was a time early on, when carter was a freshman that started turning some heads that he liked UNC a LOT, heard this from several and frankly this was openly discussed a year ago. But the NCAA stuff killed us, our issues were hammered by our rivals and the kid turned from us. I am not saying that without the NCAA stuff that we would have got carter, no way to know that but we would have been in it early and late.
Have to understand when the real relationships are formed with most of these top kids, it isn't their Jr or Sr seasons in high school, it goes much earlier than that. By the time they get to heading in to their Sr season, they know the handful of programs they will consider and many already know their favorite. The NCAA stuff stopped our ability to make early in roads with so many of these kids, it was a dark could they just did not want to be a part of.
But you now see Roy working the 2019 class, forming those early relationships and FINALLY being able to point to the fact that UNC men's basketball is no longer on the NCAAs hit list so those relationships may now grow and not be killed as they have been for the last 4-5yrs.
On paper it may not look great but on paper last years class looked much worse with only Kenny and Luke. But how a class looks on paper doesn't really matter to me, it is how that class plays out that really matters. Example, we got maybe the top class, it was top 3 for sure, when we got Henson, Dex, the Wears twins, and Lmac. Great class on paper but in reality we only had 1 guy play up to his incoming hype and he had to change positions in order to do that? WE got JMM and PJ in the same class, just those 2 alone were supposed to be game changers and yet we got 3 hohum seasons from them. No one was doing back flips when we signed that lesser class of Marcus and Brice and yet those 2 fellas lead us to the NCAA title game.
Point is, doesn't matter how this class looks on paper, lets see how they play. I actually really like this class, to me is is a really good solid foundation building class and even more so adding Brooks tomorrow, PJ or not. There is a lot of blue collar in this class and I love those kids that come in under estimated and work their butts off to show they belong. This class and IMO especially the big men we will have will far out play their incoming lack of hype, why, because Roy and his staff will develop them in to players that want to become the best they can be and not have their eyes more on the NBA their next season.
No, I'm talking about the state, not UNC.
The state of North Carolina hasn't had this bad of a senior class in over 20 years, literally since before rankings came out. This is the worst class to ever be ranked.
Oh, OK, guess I am still confused by what Rose was saying. yeah, this was not a great state of NC class, especially as compared to 2016.
So why offer Weatherspoon or Sexton if Roy didn't want a PG? That either means
- He wanted a PG and didn't bother offering the guy we actually had interest from
- He didn't want one and wasted 2 offers on guys who apparently never had any legit interest in us.
I fail to understand the infatuation with Carter's "early interest". A sleepy, blind man with salt in his eyes could see that whatever interest gary or others claimed Carter had in UNC was not there anymore. We recruited him well after the talk of his tandem with Trent Jr began to take shape. And which one of you claimed that "not recruiting Carter was what K wanted us to do"? Lol, I bet that rat is smiling that we wasted so much effort on his future starter.
I really don't feel like rehashing myself about the NCAA troubles when 2016 completely throws a wrench in that argument. Roy did something different, and got better results. He went back to the original strategy, is getting* worse results (and compared to 2016, yes worse). I don't know how simpler I can make this.
And btw, 2018 and 2019, he's making different choices. We're offering guys much earlier. And getting better results. This is literally the only point I've been trying to make here.
I have never read anywhere that Carter ever had any interest in UNC. Dook picks in the CB started over 12 mos, ago.
RIVALS' REACTION
Duke has been considered the behind the scenes leader for Carter since the very beginning of his recruitment. With a decision looming, the Blue Devils still appear to be in great shape to score Carter’s signature as a member of their 2017 class. Visits to Georgia, Georgia Tech and Harvard all impressed Carter, but it is looking like Mike Krzyzewski and the Blue Devils will win out again.
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I don't understand why the guys that keep butting heads on this board don't just put each other on ignore. You're not going to convince each other and it just makes reading this board painful. Granted I'm a Dukie so you might not care, but a lot of your fellow posters probably agree...
You know what makes reading this board painful? Dynamite drop ins from uk/pukes like yourself. You should feel pain reading our board. As much pain as that little douche of yours did when Danny teabagged him.
I guess you dookies are in lock step?? No wonder you guys come over here so much to relieve the sheer boredom.
Life must really be miserable for pukies and the closet pukie trolls who think they have us fooled if they continuously read this painful board and spend so little time in their own Shangri-La! UK/KU {which is Kentuck?} trolls too!
I teach reading and reading comprehension issues are becoming epidemic. I believe what we have here is intentional misreading of people's points, however.
Roy does well in NC and always has. UNC is trending upwards in recruiting and is a contender every year even during our so called struggles!
Zion clearly sees a bright future for himself at UNC and hopefully will choose the good guys!
I teach reading and reading comprehension issues are becoming epidemic. I believe what we have here is intentional misreading of people's points, however.
Roy does well in NC and always has. UNC is trending upwards in recruiting and is a contender every year even during our so called struggles!
Zion clearly sees a bright future for himself at UNC and hopefully will choose the good guys!
I just say that for certain fans' sake. Dook fans on other boards were licking their chops before this guy was even a Sophomore.
Personally, I really don't care if there was interest or not. This was never in the cards for us. Just tired of wasting time and offers on recruits that don't give us a 2nd thought.
You're right.
NEVER seen a HOF coach doubted/questioned so much in all my life. And I've been a Heel for over 60 years now. Isn't the "measuring stick" how we finish the season not who we bring on board?
First off, having to guess but it seems like you are upset a bit that Roy didn't offer Matt Coleman but did offer Sexton and Spoon? I don't know what Roy didn't see in Coleman but Coleman was not exactly shy about wanting an offer from us not just this summer but last year as well. For what ever reason, Roy just didn't see what he wanted so no offer came. Why offer Sexton and spoon, guessing he like them as multi position players. Considering we have Joel now and 7th and considering both Jalek and White are on the way, those offers may have been wasted but they didn't cost us anything either.
The Carter thing, only brought that up because you seemed to be making the case that the NCAA stuff was not as big a deal concerning our fall off in recruiting and brought him in to it to show just one example where it did impact us so much that it took us our of the game for a 5 star big man. It is wonderful that duke was on carter early as well, think maybe the negative recruiting toward us was in large part coming from a dukie named Capel?
"I really don't feel like rehashing myself about the NCAA troubles when 2016 completely throws a wrench in that argument. Roy did something different, and got better results. He went back to the original strategy, is getting* worse results (and compared to 2016, yes worse). I don't know how simpler I can make this."
^ No offense but I just do not understand what point you are making, the 2016 class I think dramatically needed one more big man, not getting 2 big men from that 2016 class was a hard blow for us coming out of that recruiting season.
Yes, Roy does have a couple of 2019 offers out, think maybe that may have a little something to do with the fact that the NCAA stuff, at least as it applies to men's basketball is no longer a worry? Now those 2019 kids can look at us and not wonder if we will get hit with post season bans or scholly reductions in their freshman seasons with us, that was not the case with this 2017 class was it...
Look, I am not saying that the NCAA stuff was the whole story but it was a HUGE factor for kids early in the recruiting cycle that looked at us. Roy himself has shared that he lost multiple big time kids directly due to this concern.
My main issue is that I'm simply tired that I have to keep explaining things due to a certain group of fans being unable to accept any criticism of anything Roy or the team does.
Yes we didn't need another PG, but your claims and Roy's actions don't mix. I did hope Coleman would get an offer, mainly because we probably shouldn't be trying to avoid talented players that want to be in UNC blue and I would rather avoid a 2012 situation in case of Felton and Woods got hurt (knocking on wood), but it's really not that big of a deal.
It means what it says. Look, everyone knew from the beginning we needed a class of at least one Big guy that could start in 2017, as well as one or two others that could potentially turn into solid multi-year contributors. Assuming Maye doesn't suddenly go All-American in the next 2 years, between Huffman and Manley: which one of those can and will start Day 1?
2016 was a great class in that we got most of what we needed and was very talented (Top 11 IIRC). We had an experienced Meeks and Hicks in addition to a young, talented freshman Bradley and 2nd year Maye.
So yes, 2016 can be considered the better class because, as it is, it fills the need, is a talented one (Top 10 IIRC), AND was during the peak of our scandal problems. 2017 is currently not shaping up to be that, regardless of how many of you want to go down swinging claiming it is...
If the scandal is the main reason why Roy is offering kids earlier than later, than apparently that's the best thing that's come out of this so far (Hey Look! There's a positive!
)And from my 3rd post on the first page:
"Obviously this isn't 100% Roy's fault, but we have had our share of screw ups that contributed to this problem."
Nevermind this 3 page debate is because people can't even accept that much
I've tried countless ways to apply logic to whimsical cheers and predictions in this thread, but this has gotten nowhere (Not directed @ you, DSouth), so perhaps it's time to make like Hillary and concede
Since everyone else put their 2 cents in allow me too. Ahem; no matter how you shake it Carter was going to dook. It was already an uphill climb, but you can bet chapel was telling him unc ball was getting the death penalty, or close to it. Most of the 2017 class has had to hear the same message capel was spewing about the punishments, so some players aren't even, or weren't even considering us. Once the anoa came out UNC could then go into a home and say that coach or asst straight up lied. Except for the 2017 class it may have been to little to late. 2018 is where you begin to see that the scandal is not of significance as we got leaky black (who dook offered and we got) and, coby white who everyone expects to blow up the rankings. We sit pretty with Zion, and he wants to play with close friends guess what? He is very close to Felton who calls him "little brother", and leaky black. Sit back and watch we will have a down 2017-18 season by our standards ,but we will be a recruiting and basketball force again very soon.
My main issue is that I'm simply tired that I have to keep explaining things due to a certain group of fans being unable to accept any criticism of anything Roy or the team does.
Yes we didn't need another PG, but your claims and Roy's actions don't mix. I did hope Coleman would get an offer, mainly because we probably shouldn't be trying to avoid talented players that want to be in UNC blue and I would rather avoid a 2012 situation in case of Felton and Woods got hurt (knocking on wood), but it's really not that big of a deal.
It means what it says. Look, everyone knew from the beginning we needed a class of at least one Big guy that could start in 2017, as well as one or two others that could potentially turn into solid multi-year contributors. Assuming Maye doesn't suddenly go All-American in the next 2 years, between Huffman and Manley: which one of those can and will start Day 1?
2016 was a great class in that we got most of what we needed and was very talented (Top 11 IIRC). We had an experienced Meeks and Hicks in addition to a young, talented freshman Bradley and 2nd year Maye.
So yes, 2016 can be considered the better class because, as it is, it fills the need, is a talented one (Top 10 IIRC), AND was during the peak of our scandal problems. 2017 is currently not shaping up to be that, regardless of how many of you want to go down swinging claiming it is...
If the scandal is the main reason why Roy is offering kids earlier than later, than apparently that's the best thing that's come out of this so far (Hey Look! There's a positive!
And from my 3rd post on the first page:
"Obviously this isn't 100% Roy's fault, but we have had our share of screw ups that contributed to this problem."
Nevermind this 3 page debate is because people can't even accept that much
I've tried countless ways to apply logic to whimsical cheers and predictions in this thread, but this has gotten nowhere (Not directed @ you, DSouth), so perhaps it's time to make like Hillary and concede
Which will start after this season, Huffman or Manley? IDK, what I do know is both are college ready bodies that do not have to eat their way in to or jenny Craig their way in to playing time. Both are able to play above the rim, both are physically strong, and both run the court well. Both are raw but that is what our coaching staff is for to develop their skills, I do see both as kids that want to learn and will do all they can to accept what our staff is looking to teach. Look how many big men we have had over the last few years that had to bulk up before they could actually be effective, Brice had to, Hicks had to, that is the next step for Tony.
You have mentioned that Roy didn't get any of those 4 star big men. What trait do any of those specific 4star bigs have that would so exceed Huffman or Manley as to cause angst? This isn't a situation where Roy called Bamba or Carter and said, hey guys, not gonna recruit ya any more cause I got this Huffman kid. he did not call Tilman or Mitchel Robinson and tell them don't worry about us cause we found this Manley kid.
Clearly, Roy watched a lot of kids, bet the ranch Roy watched pretty much all the 4 & 5 star kids at some point. Those 4stars, Roy watched them and proceeded to offer Huffman, Manley, Brooks, and Stokes. Roy didn't offer the 7ft kid out of Cali, he didn't offer the 7ft Ikey, he offerd who he offered and I can only assume he did so because he liked what he saw in those he offered more than those he didn't.
At some point we have to defer to this being Roy's team, this being Roy's ability to watch kids and determine who he feels he can coach and make part of a solid team. To not means we would not trust Roy knows what he is doing, to believe that Roy can not watch a kid play and have the sense if he can be a solid player for him or not. I am not trying to be that guy that says Roy is above critism, Roy makes mistakes, all coaches do because all coaches are human, BUt i do trust our program is in great hands with Roy, he may do some things I wish he wouldn't do but I believe we are much better with him than not.
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