Zion

[RoseHeel]

Attributed by whom? Your use of passive voice is duly noted. Kevin Durant, Mike Conley Jr., Brandan Wright, Spencer Hawes, Thaddeus Young, Derrick Rose, Kevin Love, Jerryd Bayless, Michael Beasley, Eric Gordon, J.J. Hickson, DeAndre Jordan, O.J. Mayo, DeMar Rozen, Jrue Holiday, and Tyreke Evans all say hello. And that's not even a full listing of the OADs that preceded Wall. But you want us to believe that the advent of the OAD era came *after* these guys?

I'm not trying to feed any conspiracy. I'm just disagreeing with you and providing ample evidence to show why you're wrong.

Calipari's first season at UK in 2009-10 was the first time 4 freshman went 1st round in the draft from the same school. Furthermore, since this board loves whining about Cal for OADs, and apparently everything else wrong with Basketball, I've always had the opinion that John Wall's class was the first big showing of what OADs can do.

But okay, fair enough. I used my opinion in an unfair premise.

The OAD argument was never even important to this. The fact is, we still have only 1/3 of our wins in that same time span and the schools named still have better records and titles to show for.

Even without the OAD bit, picking the year 2010 was not some random point pulled out of the air, as you seem to claim it was.

A: 2009 was our last title year. I did not include it in the 6 year span since because that was the last time we were "Kings of College Basketball".

B: It's the half-way mark of that same timespan provided by the infographic. Now obviously you can't divide 13 years perfectly in half so I did 6/7. I would hope you wouldn't complain as the numbers work even less in your favor if I give the 2010 season to the first half.

Yes, it was the year right after our title that we went straight to the NIT. The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy. I'm not complaining or blaming, but that is simply how it is. If you're upset with the way those numbers add up, then go take it up with him.

Now if you want to talk about tricks, Try the one where you've already arrived at the conclusion that I'm wrong without providing any valid proof except your rejection of my opinion. That's a pretty good one.

Or, If you want to complain about my opinion or bicker about OADs like these old folks seem to get their panties in a bunch about, fine. That's all that these threads ever boil down to anyway.

You believing me is by far the last thing I'm concerned about here. The numbers are there. whether you accept them or not is on you, buddy.

[INSERT SNIDE IMAGE OF YOUR CHOICE HERE]

Somebody said this? Where?

Paraphrased, yes. The Search function is your friend, though.

 

[RoseHeel]

Why do peeps believe the Zion and Knox ships have sailed? I have seen nothing definitive.

Didn't you also say the same things about the PJ and Vanderbilt "ships"?

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Yup. And just like now it was true at the time!

BTW: I have been wrong many times before, so research isn't necessary; remember I'm just an internet poster giving his feelings just like all of you! The biggest difference is I fully realize my opinions are just that!

Weird thing is, after they committed elsewhere I considered that definitive!

 

[Archer2]

No denying they happened, but please don't look at them in a vacuum... a horror run, before the NCAA "Stuff" of mitigating circumstances:
Larry Spew
The Twins
PJ and LMac being idiots
Rash!t McC*nt and his dad
All contributed to roster instability, poor public perception and negative recruiting.
.... and then came Mary, Kane and the NCAA!

Point being, it's not just one thing that's made it tougher to reel in the odd OAD.

Good post Oz. Things never occur in a vacuum. It was only a few years ago that d00k recruiting was going through a down cycle and we were on top of the recruiting world. We had just "stolen" Barnes from them. d00k fans were saying Krazywhiskey was spending too much time with the USA team and it was having an adverse effect on their recruiting. And we freakin' agreed.

Then the worm turned. We had a couple of players who couldn't get their act together and then the NCAA came to town. It just snowballed from there and the effect on our recruiting was very significant. So now we're in a down cycle and d00k is on the upswing. But the worm will turn again, it always does.

Let's disregard OAD's for a moment. Knowing the way we utilize bigs as much or more than any other program, why in the world would bigs ranked from 20-100(non OAD players) not be lining up to play at UNC? Those players really shouldn't be overly concerned about NCAA sanctions, something most believe won't effect men's basketball anyway. We have great facilities, a HOF coach, a great university, and tradition second to none. So why would we have trouble signing quality bigs? Roy is working as hard, if not harder, on the recruiting trail than he ever has.The answer is that like global warming, everything is cyclical.

So that is why most of us have faith that the worm will once again turn, because it always does. The only constant in life is change. Do I wish we had signed Brooks or Washington? Yes. Do I hope we can sign Knox? Again, yes. But we have one of the best coaches in the game and I have faith in him. So I will enjoy the ride this year and deal with whatever comes in the future.

 

[coryfly]

Yes, it was the year right after our title that we went straight to the NIT. The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy. I'm not complaining or blaming, but that is simply how it is. If you're upset with the way those numbers add up, then go take it up with him.

That isn't completely fair. We go to the FF if Kendall doesn't get hurt. I haven't heard anyone (even rival fans) disagree with that. So we can't blame Roy for that. In fact, Roy gets a ton of credit for that because of Kendall, who many people (including people around the area where he lived) felt would never contribute at UNC.

 

[heelmanwilm]

No coach has out performed williams on the court during his tenure here. Yea he frustrates the hell outta me with his time out strategy and early season roster juggling and lately with his inability to land elite big men but his body of work here at UNC is freaking stellar. The ncaa crap is def taking its toll and will continue to. Thats what makes the job hes done even more remarkable. He has bad games. Hell even bad seasons (by our standards). But noone has done better ON THE COURT since hes been here. Noone.

 

[Raising Heel]

Calipari's first season at UK in 2009-10 was the first time 4 freshman went 1st round in the draft from the same school. Furthermore, since this board loves whining about Cal for OADs, and apparently everything else wrong with Basketball, I've always had the opinion that John Wall's class was the first big showing of what OADs can do.

But okay, fair enough. I used my opinion in an unfair premise.

The OAD argument was never even important to this. The fact is, we still have only 1/3 of our wins in that same time span and the schools named still have better records and titles to show for.

Even without the OAD bit, picking the year 2010 was not some random point pulled out of the air, as you seem to claim it was.

A: 2009 was our last title year. I did not include it in the 6 year span since because that was the last time we were "Kings of College Basketball".

B: It's the half-way mark of that same timespan provided by the infographic. Now obviously you can't divide 13 years perfectly in half so I did 6/7. I would hope you wouldn't complain as the numbers work even less in your favor if I give the 2010 season to the first half.

Yes, it was the year right after our title that we went straight to the NIT. The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy. I'm not complaining or blaming, but that is simply how it is. If you're upset with the way those numbers add up, then go take it up with him.

Now if you want to talk about tricks, Try the one where you've already arrived at the conclusion that I'm wrong without providing any valid proof except your rejection of my opinion. That's a pretty good one.

Or, If you want to complain about my opinion or bicker about OADs like these old folks seem to get their panties in a bunch about, fine. That's all that these threads ever boil down to anyway.

You believing me is by far the last thing I'm concerned about here. The numbers are there. whether you accept them or not is on you, buddy.

[INSERT SNIDE IMAGE OF YOUR CHOICE HERE]



Paraphrased, yes. The Search function is your friend, though.

tl;dr

 

[DSouthr]

There's also this other neat trick that you should've used, called context. As I've said multiple times in this thread, the OAD era is often attributed to getting it's official start when John Wall and the other Kentucky kids went first round in the draft. Which you know, is basically what this entire discussion evolved into? (or devolved, based on your opinion) It just happens to fall right after our last title.

There's no conspiracy theory as to why I picked those dates, that's just how the numbers go. Blame the stats, not me.



Correct. That was my error saying "over one-third". I counted a 6th win last year. Maybe freudian slip, probably because I wish I could count a 6th win. Maybe I was tired. Either way, I was wrong.



So, two of those teams have a title to show for it. That's what.

You could make an argument that KU has underachieved since 2012, but that's not the point that the graphic was making.


Yeah, already said I'm not "arbitrarily selecting dates." Stop trying to feed this conspiracy narrative.



Now this is arbitrarily selecting dates.



Three of those teams you claimed had embarrassing losses also have a title to make up for it.



Based on last year and early signs from this year, I'd certainly agree. Next year, it's anyone's guess.

The 1&D era started when Ky players went 1st round in the draft? Where in the world did that come from, where ever it was it isn't true, the one & done era began when the one & done rule came in to being. It didn't magically begin when kal started pandering to it, it began when the rule began. LOL

This one & done thing, way I see it is, I could make a good bit of money selling Meth but all it would take is one thing to happen and the meth selling career is ended and I am given a new address that I would not prefer. Point being one change is all it takes and that one change should be more expected to happen than not. The one & done, all it takes is a rule change, a greater funding of the NBADL, or any variations of a new rule that would allow kids from HS a path to the draft (which does not require waiting on a new CBA) and the one & done is gone. One change and you are toast, just like the meth dealer!

And look what happens when the one & done goes away to those programs that have hitched their fate to it. Their team is decimated by the one & dones that came and had to do that 1 college season and they are not able to reload as they are now because the re-loads are also gone to the NBA... You go from kings of the hill to to praying you can at least make the NIT? That is problem #1...

Now you have to swing as hard as you can for the next best in line talents, problem there is those guys are not the day 1 game changer level talents the one & doners are. No, those guys are the Tony Bradleys, the Delaurer, the 7th Woods, Jeter, ect, all across the board but not day 1 dominators. More guys that may be able to help in their freshman seasons but guys that more developed experienced players will find easier to handle than the one & done level guys are. I love Tony but he is not a dominator at this level yet, he is a role player for now, at least a season away from becoming a major factor for us. So all the sudden experienced developed players retake center stage. That is problem #2...

Next, those programs that have committed so heavy to the one & done deal have gravitated to winning by being able to out talent their opponents with raw big time freshman talents. Even coaches that were very good at developing guys long term can easy slip in to relying on out talenting and not coach the same way they used to. It isn't easy to switch back to doing what Roy has had to do for the last several seasons for those coaches that have been able to rely on one & doners to lead their teams. We under Roy are already doing what those one & done programs will have to figure out how to get back to and that gives us the big time advantage and it gives them problem #3...

 

[mikeirbyusa]

How convenient for Rose to not mention the most injury plagued season in UNC history. Kinda had a lot to do with it too. And yet Roy STILL keeps us competitive.

Some of y'all would have been finding fault with Coach Smith as well. Afterall, he only had 2 titles in all his years at UNC.

 

[RoseHeel]

tl;dr

Im glad reading is hard for you. Saves me the trouble of responding to you complaining about my opinion.

 

[RoseHeel]

That isn't completely fair. We go to the FF if Kendall doesn't get hurt. I haven't heard anyone (even rival fans) disagree with that. So we can't blame Roy for that. In fact, Roy gets a ton of credit for that because of Kendall, who many people (including people around the area where he lived) felt would never contribute at UNC.

Im not blaming Roy for KM's injury. Like most, I also believe we'd have made the FF and probably the title game too.

I also believe that had Kris Jenkins shot missed at the buzzer, we'd have had a chance to win our 6th title in one of the greatest title games ever and these conversations wouldn't even be necessary. But that's not what happened. I'd bet Roy isn't harping on the past as he prepares this years team for a deep title run.

Furthermore I'm not, nor have I ever implied I was "blaming" Roy for any of the stats/decision. Not in the negative stance being implied. These things happen. They've happened to other schools as well.

Thr problem is when any thing that isn't positive is brought up, you have the very same group of folks that can't stand to have anything Roy's done questioned or even discussed. If anything's not fair, it's that.

 

[RoseHeel]

How convenient for Rose to not mention the most injury plagued season in UNC history. Kinda had a lot to do with it too. And yet Roy STILL keeps us competitive.

Some of y'all would have been finding fault with Coach Smith as well. Afterall, he only had 2 titles in all his years at UNC.

About as convenient as that graphic continuously posted in every other thread that only takes a bit of investigation to cast light upon? Lol

Like I said, I truly look forward to eating that crow if Roy proves my worries wrong and keep us competitive with next year's class.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Like I said, I truly look forward to eating that crow if Roy proves my worries wrong and keep us competitive with next year's class.

Maybe the better approach is to wait and see before assuming the worst? That way, no crow needs to be eaten. Look, I'm just trying to help you. I've heard crow doesn't taste well. Never had any myself though.

 

[tarheel0910]

I've heard crow doesn't taste well. Never had any myself though.

Tastes like chicken.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I'm one of the peeps who respond to the negative, but it's because I think I have an answer or response. I have never even implied that our coach or players couldn't be critiqued. (this is a silly claim) If peeps just posted what they thought and there was no dissenting opinions this would be a boring place don't you think?

I do have a problem with posters in 3 categories:

1. Trolls: the litterers of the internet world and truly pathetic wastes of skin!
2. Bashers: who unfairly attack players/coaches/UNC with no merit and inane points.
3. Those who are almost always negative and derail every thread with their joy killing!

BUT: I welcome any opinion, especially the easy to refute ones, lol!

 

[RoseHeel]

Maybe the better approach is to wait and see before assuming the worst? That way, no crow needs to be eaten. Look, I'm just trying to help you. I've heard crow doesn't taste well. Never had any myself though.

Well, I'm perfectly fine with being called out for being wrong. On the rare chance it does, it tends to still be a good thing in the end. I hate seeing UNC having bad seasons or struggling in any aspect. Like any other fan would. If it turns out our class next year comes in and continues to compete at a high level, that's a good thing.

Also, if you'll check any of my previous posts regarding the future, I've never said with certainty that bad things will happen. But I did say it looks like they may happen. Mainly because there is good reason to think so. I'm just not the type of person to look up in the sky, see gray clouds and thunder and think "well, maybe it'll be sunny in a few hours" (This is just a metaphor. Please don't take it out of context).

I'd rather not sugar coat my opinion and be pleasantly surprised than keep making outlandish predictions and end up disappointed each time. Unlike some, I don't enjoy pain.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Then why do your post not reflect a title run last year and a dern good chance to make it there again?

 

[RoseHeel]

Then why do your post not reflect a title run last year and a dern good chance to make it there again?

A. I have acknowledged our title run. It was obviously a critical part of that graphic.

B. This year is barely halfway through. I think we're primed to make another title run, but expecting a title run is foolish. Furthermore, and I can't stress this enough, the season is barely halfway through.

C. The graphic you posted had nothing to do with this season just yet. We'll see what it looks like when this season is done. But I'd hope Roy adds a few more wins to that list.

 

[Raising Heel]

Im glad reading is hard for you. Saves me the trouble of responding to you complaining about my opinion.

Reading isn't hard at all, but your pablum is definitely tiresome. We're doomed and it's all Roy's fault. Got it.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I'm one of the peeps who respond to the negative, but it's because I think I have an answer or response. I have never even implied that our coach or players couldn't be critiqued. (this is a silly claim) If peeps just posted what they thought and there was no dissenting opinions this would be a boring place don't you think?

I do have a problem with posters in 3 categories:

1. Trolls: the litterers of the internet world and truly pathetic wastes of skin!
2. Bashers: who unfairly attack players/coaches/UNC with no merit and inane points.
3. Those who are almost always negative and derail every thread with their joy killing!

BUT: I welcome any opinion, especially the easy to refute ones, lol!

I find this poast pretty ironic. Especially the bolded.

 

[RoseHeel]

Reading isn't hard at all, but your pablum is definitely tiresome. We're doomed and it's all Roy's fault. Got it.

If you had actually read the "too long" post, you'd see that's not even remotely close to my opinion.

But facts and logic don't seem to be your thing. Oh well.

 

[Raising Heel]

We're doomed and it's all Roy's fault. Got it.

If you had actually read the "too long" post, you'd see that's not even remotely close to my opinion.

Ahem.

The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy.

But facts and logic don't seem to be your thing. Oh well.

Zing! You really got me there. So witty.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I don't understand what is meant by "irony" in response to my post.

Possibly you are referring to the oft used, though ultimately incorrect, assumption that the word simply means someone who espouses an opinion of others that they are unaware applies better to themselves. This definition is only correct when applied to define a literary technique first identified in Greek tragedies and used to describe fictional characters in an attempt to illustrate an abstract theme.

But more to the point, and ignoring the pseudo-ironic spelling of post, I fail to see how it applies to me. Please show me where I have ever said that dissenting opinion is something I do not like or that debate is something I do not enjoy.

I think I have defined what I do not like pretty well, and if you feel you are in one of the categories, I understand the angst!

I love my Tar Heels and I think it fair if I attempt to refute even the so called "objective" criticisms of my favorite team, players, and coach. Why would my defense ever be thought of as an attempt to silence criticism and not an attempt to debate? Seems a little lazy to me.

BTW: I do absolutely hate that some feel every thread has to be turned into a personal grudge match. AND it is obvious that the change is recent!

 

[RoseHeel]

Ahem.
Zing! You really got me there. So witty.

LMAO! And You tried to call me out for picking and choosing facts I want to accept??? It takes an really special person to stop reading mid-paragraph. I literally refuted that in the next sentence:

I'm not complaining or blaming, but that is simply how it is. If you're upset with the way those numbers add up, then go take it up with Roy

Also, in another response to someone else:

Furthermore I'm not, nor have I ever implied I was "blaming" Roy for any of the stats/decision. Not in the negative stance being implied.

Lol this isn't even about wit. You're simply taking my words out of context and nitpicking at them because you seem to have nothing of substance left to contribute to your original argument.

You know, context? the first thing I said you should've considered in my first response to you?

Theres also this other nest trick you should've used, called context

Lmao, just stop.

Hopefully this one wasn't too long for you this time.

 

[coryfly]

Im not blaming Roy for KM's injury. Like most, I also believe we'd have made the FF and probably the title game too.

I also believe that had Kris Jenkins shot missed at the buzzer, we'd have had a chance to win our 6th title in one of the greatest title games ever and these conversations wouldn't even be necessary. But that's not what happened. I'd bet Roy isn't harping on the past as he prepares this years team for a deep title run.

Furthermore I'm not, nor have I ever implied I was "blaming" Roy for any of the stats/decision. Not in the negative stance being implied. These things happen. They've happened to other schools as well.

Thr problem is when any thing that isn't positive is brought up, you have the very same group of folks that can't stand to have anything Roy's done questioned or even discussed. If anything's not fair, it's that.

I'm actually a pretty pessimistic sort when it comes to the Heels. I'm no sunshine pumper at all. I generally think we are overranked to start the year. I don't have an issue with questioning Roy or being critical. I have a problem with not being reasonable or changing the argument when other posters bring up relevant points.

For example, you said this...

The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy.

Does that not imply you are kind of blaming Roy? When you use a season you agree we didn't make the FF or maybe win it all because of an injury as part of your 'thanks to Roy' argument it kind of matters. Maybe you meant all of that, except for that season where we were awesome and would have gone to the FF if not for an injury, was thanks to Roy.

I get that some people think Roy can do not wrong. He can and does. However, I also get that he is pretty damn good at what he does and we are pretty lucky, which I think you agree with.

OTOH, I don't really understand the 'not fair' stuff.

 

[Raising Heel]

It takes an really special person to stop reading mid-paragraph. I literally refuted that in the next sentence.

No, just a really bored person. I wonder why you feel the need to keep taking personal jabs at me.*

So you said one thing and immediately contradicted yourself in the next sentence. Then you got upset when somebody misunderstood whatever rambling point you were trying to make. Good job.

Lmao, just stop.

Nah, I'm good.





* No I don't. I think we all know why.

 

[Raising Heel]

I'm actually a pretty pessimistic sort when it comes to the Heels. I'm no sunshine pumper at all. I generally think we are overranked to start the year. I don't have an issue with questioning Roy or being critical. I have a problem with not being reasonable or changing the argument when other posters bring up relevant points.

For example, you said this...

The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy.

Does that not imply you are kind of blaming Roy? When you use a season you agree we didn't make the FF or maybe win it all because of an injury as part of your 'thanks to Roy' argument it kind of matters. Maybe you meant all of that, except for that season where we were awesome and would have gone to the FF if not for an injury, was thanks to Roy.

I get that some people think Roy can do not wrong. He can and does. However, I also get that he is pretty damn good at what he does and we are pretty lucky, which I think you agree with.

OTOH, I don't really understand the 'not fair' stuff.

Oh look @RoseHeel, somebody else didn't understand you. Maybe he's special, too.

 

[UNC '92]

Oh look @RoseHeel, somebody else didn't understand you. Maybe he's special, too.

Welllllllll....

* Humor from OOTB not always found here

 

[RoseHeel]

I'm actually a pretty pessimistic sort when it comes to the Heels. I'm no sunshine pumper at all. I generally think we are overranked to start the year. I don't have an issue with questioning Roy or being critical. I have a problem with not being reasonable or changing the argument when other posters bring up relevant points.

For example, you said this...

The fact that our NIT season and subsequent Non-Final Four seasons, sans 2016, fell directly after our National Championship is thanks to Roy.

Does that not imply you are kind of blaming Roy? When you use a season you agree we didn't make the FF or maybe win it all because of an injury as part of your 'thanks to Roy' argument it kind of matters. Maybe you meant all of that, except for that season where we were awesome and would have gone to the FF if not for an injury, was thanks to Roy.

I get that some people think Roy can do not wrong. He can and does. However, I also get that he is pretty damn good at what he does and we are pretty lucky, which I think you agree with.

OTOH, I don't really understand the 'not fair' stuff.

Perhaps the wording is misleading, but I did try to use the very next sentence to try to explain what I meant (as well as other subsequent posts). The overlying point I was trying to make was that the stats were not being manipulated to make Roy look bad, as implied by Raising Heel. Just that they were what they were. It had zero to do with blaming Roy.

I also considered writing "because of Roy", but I feel that would still be misinterpreted as blame. But regardless of the word choice, There was no intention to place any blame on Roy in any of these posts, rather than just to point out the fallacies in that graphic.

Said it before and will continue saying it: We are extremely lucky to have Roy as our coach, regardless of anything discussed on this board. I do believe he'll have more than 2 titles under his belt.

 

[RoseHeel]

No, just a really bored person. I wonder why you feel the need to keep taking personal jabs at me.

So you said one thing and immediately contradicted yourself in the next sentence. Then you got upset when somebody misunderstood whatever rambling point you were trying to make. Good job.

Funny how you accused me of ignoring facts to prop up my argument, then did the exact same thing, but tried to blame it on boredom. Lmao, whatever you say dude.

There was no contradiction being made, as pointed out to coryfly. Like I said, if you have too much trouble reading one sentence ahead that immediately disproves your point, whether it be due to boredom, illiteracy, or hypocrisy**, that's your problem. But you have no room to complain when you're the one who's in the wrong. At this point, you're either just trolling or unable to realize that you're making zero sense.

Oh look @RoseHeel, somebody else didn't understand you. Maybe he's special, too.

Difference is, coryfly was respectful enough to ask me what I meant. Rather than automatically assuming I was wrong or accuse me of lying. You're reaching pretty hard right now.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Really?????????????? EVERY stinkin thread has to be turned into this?

 

[Archer2]

So who's this guy Zion and why does he have such a funny name? Is he any good?

 

[Raising Heel]

There was no contradiction being made, as pointed out to coryfly.

Yet he had the exact same question as me. (Pssst. Maybe it's you.)

illiteracy

There you go again.

But you have no room to complain when you're the one who's in the wrong.

Disagree.

You're reaching pretty hard right now.

Haven't even broken a sweat.

 

[RoseHeel]

Really?????????????? EVERY stinkin thread has to be turned into this?

Who would have thunk it?

IMO, this thread should be locked. It never had anything to do with Zion, than it did to use him as a patsy to complain about Cal's tactic. Between that and this hopeless argument, nothing over the past couple of pages have been of any value.

 

[RoseHeel]

Yet he had the exact same question as me. (Pssst. Maybe it's you.)

I'm not re-explaining this. Either read the last paragraph in my last post or keep crying about it.

Haven't even broken a sweat.

Um good for you? I would hope you don't break sweats from simply typing on a computer.

 

[gobblercalls]

Why don't you 2 love birds go get a room!

 

[Raising Heel]

I'm not re-explaining this.

Probably a good thing considering how badly you did on your first attempt.

Um good for you?

No, it was terrible.