From A UNC JV Manager

[Raising Heel]

I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong, but I don't anticipate that will happen on this issue.

Oh, I don't either.

In particular, if Rojstaczer was voicing this criticism in 2006 and all of this UNC issue comes to light over the course of the next 9 years, makes you think something would have come up by now if there were issues at Duke.

Why would anyone think that? It apparently went on at UNC for almost 20 years before anyone knew about it.

Just because it hasn't come to light doesn't mean it's not happening. Surely you realize the fallacy of thinking otherwise.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Mark Gastineau

 

[gunslingerdick]

 

[TarHeelMark]

Well, of course NOTHING ever comes of anything at dook. The rat will have it all neatly covered up like everything else that happens at that fake-aZZ cathedral of morality.

 

[UNC71-00]

Duke is not confined by FOIA, without which, this never gets very far at UNC.

 

[Raising Heel]

Duke is not confined by FOIA, without which, this never gets very far at UNC.

'zactly.

 

[Heel Gyeah]

dooK fans trolling the board and April isn't even over yet!

 

[DSouthr]

"I've said it before, there are no legit UNC basketball violations"

Well actually there could be legit UNC basketball violations. What if they look at the no show classes and try and determine that some players would not have been eligible without them. For example, we all know that Julius Peppers' transcripts were leaked and if he didn't take the no show classes or given certain grades, he wouldn't have been eligible. That's pretty much a fact. This could have been the same for other players over the years, who would have otherwise been ineligible if it weren't for the fake grades.

John, the problem there is that the atheletic staff in football or basketball would have to have been found to have put him in those classes as well as have influence over the grading. That is what happened at Syracuse and why they got slapped so hard. NOTHING has indicated this with UNC, nothing has been linked directly to the basketball staff, the football staff, or the AD.

So the ONLY other option would be for the accreditation body to invalidate those classes and that invalidation effect players AFTER the limitation period, I believe we are talking players that played in 2011 or maybe even 2012.

But the logistics of telling every student at UNC that took those AFAM classes, not just atheletes, that those classes have been invalidated by the accreditation body would be unbarable and simiply put not something they would ever really do. I mean, they could not just go back to the statute of limitations that the NCAA has for such things, they would literally have to go back pretty much to the inception of the AFAM program itself. And you know that just is not going to happen.

I expect something different than what we see so many reacting out of fear see. The NCAA is currently looking in to over 20 different programs concerning abuses in "NO Show" classes, on line classes, directed reading classes ect. They are going to find a lot of problems there and I am expecting them to come out and form some kind of committee to try to force schools to either eliminate those types of classes as being able to allow NCAA eligibility or at least try to send the message that things must be done differently but no further individual punishment comes to UNC.

What is taking so long in our case is that the can of worms has been opened, NCAA eligibility is achieved by easy grade classes all across its member institutions, you can not punish one for what they are all doing. This dragginbg out because the NCAA is ivestigating so many other programs for this same stuff and actually their taking the time to do that helps them not single us out for punishment that is outside of their scope anyway. Academics is up to the schools, the validity of classes is up to the schools, it is not within the scope of the NCAA. The NCAA has already said this as it applies to us, how many more times do they have to say the same thing before UNC fans will take their word? LOL

 

[gary-7]

Your Duke hatred is something I have never witnessed, gary, and that is saying something. Can almost see the smoke rolling out of your ears just reading your posts. What academic scandal was Duke involved in, as you seem to infer, here?

All I can say to this rant of utter idiocy is.... well, I just said it.
And you're posting this crap on a Carolina board?.... wow, just wow.
BTW: there's nothing in my post to "infer"... dook has been notorious for sketchy classes.
Now go peddle your pizzas elsewhere, dookie.

 

[KellenPatrick]

All I can say to this rant of utter idiocy is.... well, I just said it.
And you're posting this crap on a Carolina board?.... wow, just wow.
BTW: there's nothing in my post to "infer"... dook has been notorious for sketchy classes.
Now go peddle your pizzas elsewhere, dookie.

Yes, gary, everyone is an idiot besides you. That's quite obvious, isn't it? Yeah, you seem like a very rational fella. Lol. And "sketchy" classes at Duke? Have you actually heard of that or did you just throw it out there because of your frustration? Unreal.

 

[DSouthr]

I'm not really that concerned what Stuart Rojstaczer thinks. Also, pretty suspect/dated "evidence" you've got there. Personal blog post from a former professor. Not exactly the NYTimes...

Amazing, the look of the boards change and here come the dukie cockroaches. Have to lkove it, gas-a-toe comes on here spouting his nonsense and is shown proof of his BS and he replies "Oh, guess I was wrong but I don't care what that bad man says"?

Hey goof ball, ya want to say that the info that online classes was dated but the problem is they were not stopped, meaning they continued, meaning they still exist. And yes, the NCAA is looking in to online classes on a nation wide basis.

That is your problem dummy, you guys go shoot your mouths off about our easy grade classes yet hide behind the fact that duke is a private institution to stone wall investigations. Duke has easy grade classes that atheletes cluster to, did you really believe that such a large % of duke players wanted to be social workers after their playing days were done? How does that work, I am going to duke to get this world class socialogy degree so I can go make about $30K a year?

Every major program has those easy grade classes that atheletes cluster to and not because ALL atheletes are dumb but more the demands on time from atheletes is not like what most regular students experience.

Tell me this gas-a-toe, when your coaches are recruiting the VERY SAME TALENTS UNC DOES, how is it that in your WRONG opinion duke doesn't get the ones that need special help getting eligibility grades, in your wasteland of a mind only those that comit to UNC need that extra help?

This is a can of worms that dukies, just like wuffie fans act like they enjoy being opened when it is UNC in the cross hairs but you stutter all the way to the denial when some one shares with you that the problem is at least as bad at your schools. This isn't a can of worms I wanted to see opened no matter who the swchool involved was because I knew that we as well as everyone else had classes that atheletes took advantage of to remian eligible, no matter if coaching staffs directed them to those classes or not. In EVERY SCHOOL you will see clusters of atheletes in the same classes and should the NCAA look in to any of those clusters problems will be found.

But that isn't your narritive is it, you want to believe that it is just UNC, you at very least want to try to convince others that it is just UNC. Should we be allowed on your duke board to say that ONLY AT DUKE ARE WOMEN RAPED, ONLY AT DUKE ARE JEWELRY ACCOUNTS SET UP WHERE PAYERS CAN GET ANY TYPE OF JEWELRY THEY WANT AND NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT? Yeah, let me know when that happens ...

 

[DSouthr]

I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong, but I don't anticipate that will happen on this issue.

In particular, if Rojstaczer was voicing this criticism in 2006 and all of this UNC issue comes to light over the course of the next 9 years, makes you think something would have come up by now if there were issues at Duke. Pretty sure he'd be beating his chest and talking to every major media outlet if that were the case. Also, weren't multiple professors speaking out at UNC about the academic issues, as opposed to one guy who, judging by his wikipedia page, seems hellbent on attacking the integrity of elite academic institutions?

Liar, you have been proven wrong, you said well maybe I was wrong, now go eat crow and be gone.

Oh and as for those multiple professors that spoke out against UNC, yeah multiple, it was 1 assistent professor and one learning specialist (who was not a professor) BOTH of whom were working together on a book they wanted to publish.. But your duke faculty member was speaking for a committee he was on that recomended the online line classes be stopped and yet they never were. lets see the math here, 2 UNC faculty members vs a comitte of duke faculty members? Was that entire dukie committee working together to get a book deal done like the 2 faculty members at UNC were?

 

[DSouthr]

"What is taking so long in our case is that the can of worms has been opened, NCAA eligibility is achieved by easy grade classes all across its member institutions, you can not punish one for what they are all doing. This dragginbg out because the NCAA is ivestigating so many other programs for this same stuff and actually their taking the time to do that helps them not single us out for punishment that is outside of their scope anyway. Academics is up to the schools, the validity of classes is up to the schools, it is not within the scope of the NCAA. The NCAA has already said this as it applies to us, how many more times do they have to say the same thing before UNC fans will take their word? LOL."

DSouthr writes novels in response to everything. Wow. So I just chose one paragraph. Lol. Love how you guys always try to convince yourselves everything will be alright because, after all, this is an academic issue only! Really? Steering athletes to fake classes for the purpose of keeping them eligible and thus able to stay on the field/court isn't an NCAA matter? Wow.

ANOTHER dukie genius, can't focus on anything more than a short paragraph, yeah, wonder the odds of that dude having a job with his name on his shirt...

Hey, did ya make it thru that paragraph Kellen cause that was a lot of words & stuff...Lets try some more, keep up now or have mommy read it to you. There had been ZERO evidence that ANY UNC basketball or football memebr of our coaching staffs directed ANY players to ANY particular slate of classes. These kids may have been directed to them by academic staff members that felt they needed easier classes to survive in the college academic world.

Now I actually understand your thinking a little bit, the problem is K directs & controls all things at duke, the same is not true of UNC coaching staffs, at UNC the coaochcing staffs deal only with them as athletes, the academic side of things is all handled by the academic side. The Weinstien report just flatly stated that UNC coaching staffs did not know of any of these problems. The NCAA has already stated that they do not enforce the difficulty of the classes at member schools, they can ONLY punish if it is discovered that coaches directed kids to those classes as was the exact case with Syracuse but that has not been found to be the case at UNC by any publically offerred report as of yet.

Kellen has no idea what I just said, he admitted his attention span is that of a house fly...

 

[UNC71-00]

Yes, gary, everyone is an idiot besides you. That's quite obvious, isn't it? Yeah, you seem like a very rational fella. Lol. And "sketchy" classes at Duke? Have you actually heard of that or did you just throw it out there because of your frustration? Unreal.

No son, they are actually real. Read the thread.

 

[heelmanwilm]

"What is taking so long in our case is that the can of worms has been opened, NCAA eligibility is achieved by easy grade classes all across its member institutions, you can not punish one for what they are all doing. This dragginbg out because the NCAA is ivestigating so many other programs for this same stuff and actually their taking the time to do that helps them not single us out for punishment that is outside of their scope anyway. Academics is up to the schools, the validity of classes is up to the schools, it is not within the scope of the NCAA. The NCAA has already said this as it applies to us, how many more times do they have to say the same thing before UNC fans will take their word? LOL."

DSouthr writes novels in response to everything. Wow. So I just chose one paragraph. Lol. Love how you guys always try to convince yourselves everything will be alright because, after all, this is an academic issue only! Really? Steering athletes to fake classes for the purpose of keeping them eligible and thus able to stay on the field/court isn't an NCAA matter? Wow.

Well dumass first of all they werent fake classes and second noone was steered to them. What an idiot. Read the report nancy

 

[NENCHeel]

Yes, gary, everyone is an idiot besides you. That's quite obvious, isn't it? Yeah, you seem like a very rational fella. Lol. And "sketchy" classes at Duke? Have you actually heard of that or did you just throw it out there because of your frustration? Unreal.

Actually you may want to Google your school, ESPN and Sociology. ESPN found the clustering of jocks taking Sociology classes and even off-campus classes at NCCU quite interesting.

If you want to throw rocks make sure you don't pick them up from a cow pasture....easier to keep your own hands clean that way.

 

[ElizabethtownHeel]

Hey Liz, can you get me the number of the guy who has the boot leg movies? That is, unless you're in them.

I don't have the number ! But he drives a White Lexus with the big Ghetto wheels and he is backed up to the store and deals out of the trunk of the car. If you are white , he is going to shut the trunk and ask if you are the Po Po ! Tell him South side east wick sent you , that you want to see a man about a boat ! Then you are in ! He deals mostly in Cam shot illegal copies of what is in the theater now. If you pay up front he can get you some old movies. It is the Great Stops gas station on East Market st. a couple of blocks down from the Highway Patrol station in Greensboro. Also don't be in this neighborhood at night unless you are looking for drugs , a lady friend you can rent by the hour or like being the victim of a violent crime !

PS Don't call them Ghetto wheels in front of the Movie business owner as I did , he no longer will do business with me.

 

[gary-7]

Yes, gary, everyone is an idiot besides you. That's quite obvious, isn't it? Yeah, you seem like a very rational fella. Lol. And "sketchy" classes at Duke? Have you actually heard of that or did you just throw it out there because of your frustration? Unreal.

Everyone?... Nah, you've got it covered, bud.
As for the sketchy "correspondence" classes for dook athletes, well, anyone who can read a newspaper should have heard of those.

 

[DSouthr]

Yes, gary, everyone is an idiot besides you. That's quite obvious, isn't it? Yeah, you seem like a very rational fella. Lol. And "sketchy" classes at Duke? Have you actually heard of that or did you just throw it out there because of your frustration? Unreal.

No kellen, gary was not saying everyone is an idiot, he was just saying that YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Glad I could clear that up for ya...

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Why don't they just designate practices and games as "classes"? Each semester they get 2 4-credit grades (because they are like labs) - one for Basketball Practice Lab one for Basketball Game Lab.

These kids are in school to learn their profession. If you want to be a chemist and you take chemistry labs, you get credit. But most of what you are doing is practicing what the prof tells you to practice, right? Why not look at sports the same way?

Sure, they'll still have to take some other classes. I mean no student is allowed to take classes exclusively in his major. But they will be getting graded for taking courses in what they have come to college to study. Basketball. And it probably isn't unreasonable for most of them to get good grades in their chosen field, either.

At worst, it might require coaches to add a little more course-like structure to practices, but probably not a lot - since they already grade players on a variety of things. They would just have to formalize it a bit and actually issue grades like regular classes.

What's wrong with that approach?

 

[UNC71-00]

@What Would Jesus Do? that's an excellent idea. ROTC students get credit for Army class and lab, so why not for athletes? Should at the very least count as a PE credit.

 

[HeelFan58]

All I can say to this rant of utter idiocy is.... well, I just said it.
And you're posting this crap on a Carolina board?.... wow, just wow.
BTW: there's nothing in my post to "infer"... dook has been notorious for sketchy classes.
Now go peddle your pizzas elsewhere, dookie.

How the hell can this dook wanker be on our board and only witnessed this kind of dook hatred from Gary7? I can damn well tell you my hatred for dook (and moo also) equals or exceeds Gary7's.

 

[EastRutherfordFan]

I don't have the number ! But he drives a White Lexus with the big Ghetto wheels and he is backed up to the store and deals out of the trunk of the car. If you are white , he is going to shut the trunk and ask if you are the Po Po ! Tell him South side east wick sent you , that you want to see a man about a boat ! Then you are in ! He deals mostly in Cam shot illegal copies of what is in the theater now. If you pay up front he can get you some old movies. It is the Great Stops gas station on East Market st. a couple of blocks down from the Highway Patrol station in Greensboro. Also don't be in this neighborhood at night unless you are looking for drugs , a lady friend you can rent by the hour or like being the victim of a violent crime !

PS Don't call them Ghetto wheels in front of the Movie business owner as I did , he no longer will do business with me.

Good reply my Tar Heel sister!

 

[DSouthr]

Why don't they just designate practices and games as "classes"? Each semester they get 2 4-credit grades (because they are like labs) - one for Basketball Practice Lab one for Basketball Game Lab.

These kids are in school to learn their profession. If you want to be a chemist and you take chemistry labs, you get credit. But most of what you are doing is practicing what the prof tells you to practice, right? Why not look at sports the same way?

Sure, they'll still have to take some other classes. I mean no student is allowed to take classes exclusively in his major. But they will be getting graded for taking courses in what they have come to college to study. Basketball. And it probably isn't unreasonable for most of them to get good grades in their chosen field, either.

At worst, it might require coaches to add a little more course-like structure to practices, but probably not a lot - since they already grade players on a variety of things. They would just have to formalize it a bit and actually issue grades like regular classes.

What's wrong with that approach?

Careful now boss, you could be considered guilty of thinking outside the box, oh and by the way, I LOVE IT! You are sneaking up on something I have talked about several times, something I really wish both the member schools as well as the NCAA would take a strong look at. A major for these athletes, those at least that want it, that is about professional sports, what to look out for, what you need to know. Things like managing your money, how to deal with agents, how to work with professional players, just the whole gamet of what a professional athlete needs to know but has to discover on their own. You would have a degree program that would fit area of interest of these athletes and face it, if you are interested it makes all the difference.

This could be a universal program tailored by the NCAA and handed down to it's member schools so that you have uniformity of the classes. Other kids get credit for versions of Phys Ed, why not lab credit for working out properly for their sport as well as games they execute what they have learned. Proper preparation of foods that athletes need and how their diet can impact them professionally as well as for the rest of their lives.

Don't make a kid get a degree in an area he doesn't give 2 hoots about, that causes kids to cheat because they could care less about the topic of study but give them a topic they are not just interested in but one they know they need to learn and the majority of them will not only be engaged but will be happy to be so. Gob forbid we actually give these athletes what college is suppose to give students, a needed education in that students area of interest, that would be such a bad thing, wouldn't it...

 

[Ozheelfan]

Why don't they just designate practices and games as "classes"? Each semester they get 2 4-credit grades (because they are like labs) - one for Basketball Practice Lab one for Basketball Game Lab.
....

It's a great idea and very practical. I'm a swim coach and the sports staff at my daughters high school have used my seasonal lesson plans for teaching physiology. I'm sure my swimmers also learn while they work, it's hard not to gain an understanding when you're 'living' it.

Just think about the exposure to sports science and movement studies the players are getting when working with Jonas.... 10 x better than sitting in a lecture hall or reading a textbook!

I know Marcus was writing articles for one of the websites and newsletters - did he get credit towards his journalism degree for that? I reckon he should have.