Is it time to consider starting Trimble over Cadeau

[IDUNK4HEELS]

Yes I know the statement “if it is not broken don’t change it” but at this time it is something that the coaches must think about and consider.

Like everybody else I like how Trimble this season is day and night different from last year when he was scared to even considering shooting and the big time spark he gives the team off the bench when he and Washington come in and more importantly how he plays in your face tough defense without picking up silly unnecessary fouls. He has also added long range to his offensive game. His one year of playing at Carolina also really shows how he has grown.

Trimble does NOT look as much as Cadeau does for an assist but he does several times a game attack the rim. Against teams with a big backcourts like Pittsburgh and Duke I personally would like him playing to offset the height difference.

Cadeau is still learning the Carolina offense and at times plays like a green freshman but every game he looks better and better. He reminds me somewhat of Jimmy Black who hardly ever looked for his own shot and was more concerned with getting the ball to Worthy, Perkins, Doherty and Jordan in scoring positions.

Like Black, Cadeau has four players in Bacot, Ingram, Davis and Ryan who can carry the scoring load so that he does not need to score to help the team win but if Cadeau could look to score like Trimble does the team could go from great to elite.

Sooner or later opponents will begin to lay off him like they did to Black and Nance last season making life tough on Bacot again who will be double teamed.

I have seen enough of Cadeau to know there is not a defensive guard in the ACC that can hold him or stop him from going to the hole when he decides to take the rock strongly to the basket but he just does not do it enough. In my humble opinion he could be like another Lawson and that is saying a lot.

Cadeau’s outside shooting will eventually come around as will his free throwing shooting at a higher percentage which will make him a superstar in the near future but right now both leave a lot to be desired.

Carolina seems more fluent when Cadeau is running the team freeing up Davis for his shot but all of these careless silly fouls is really hurting his growth and the team when he spends more time on the bench than in running the team.

Let the debate begin because as I have clearly listed how both players bring a ton of talent to the table and contribute to the team’s recent success.

I look forward to see how others feel about this discussion and why…

 

[Heelicious]

I don’t know what good would come from this. Obviously he’s done enough to earn a starting spot in preseason and during practice. And hasn’t played himself out of the starting position.

If we want to run and have a primary or secondary break we need to have EC in the game. And it’s worked out that Trimble is getting plenty of minutes. Trimble isn’t good enough passer, scorer, or qb on the court - to be like a 30-34 minute guy.

And if it’s a coin flip, EC has a lot of pride. What if he goes into a funk being relegated to the bench and looks to transfer? Only bad things can happen from removing him from the starting lineup- if he hasn’t done anything to warrant that. They are just as good with ec on the court - if not better - than with Trimble. Like Gary said ec is better than Trimble at getting rj and everyone else the ball in a right spot than Trimble.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I think Seth is a role player who’s doing a really good job at playing his role right now. Elliot Cadeau is a role player who’s really important that he plays at a starter level for us to do anything significant this season.

I would fear that we would be very dependent on iso ball with Seth getting 28 MPG as a starter. And I’m not quite ready to turn this team into a defense-first team. I still think scoring is the best way for this team to find March success.

And Seth has played really well, no question. But his improved shooting is on a really small sample size. He’s what? 7-12 from 3 this year? It’s great that those shots have gone in and, in the end, that’s all that matters. But I don’t know if his jump shot has improved to the degree his statistics say they did.

Obviously Cadeau is a shooting 0 so far. But I think this team’s upside is tied to how he plays this year. Honestly, a reason why we’ve been good but probably short of great is that Cadeau probably hasn’t lived up to expectations. If Cadeau were anywhere near freshman Kendall Marshall, Ty Lawson or Jason Kidd, UNC would be a top 3 team in the country right now and one of the favorites to win it all.

I don’t think this is a bandaid situation. Cadeau is a true PG. This team desperately needed a true PG. I don’t think Seth is a true PG.

As opposed to making a significant change. How about Cadeau just play better? How about go a game without getting into foul trouble?

 

[Ozheelfan]

To answer the question: No.

EC needs to be given the room to grow into the role and to make mistakes. Thankfully, the mistakes he's making are due to him trying too hard and not having yet adjusted fully to the college game.

But EC is a true point guard who can control tempo and make important passes. I believe RJ plays visibly better when EC is on the floor and for me, that's one of the main reasons for EC to start - he allows the Heels' top scorer to get going from the beginning.

Seth is going to have a terrific career at UNC, he'll be part of a dynamic 4 guard/wing line-up next year with EC, Captn Jack and Drake Powell and he's already a very important piece to this years team. So no need to muck things up.

 

[DaveChapelle]

No

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

No.. but Cadeau isn't doing much to help us either.. true PG or not, he hasn't had a big assist game since the Tennessee game. He isn't putting up any kind of passing numbers to be called a "true PG".. he fouls out or gets in foul trouble constantly. If he was averaging 5-6+ assists per game I'd say he's exactly what we need.. a facilitator. But he's not doing that.

We really need Cadeau to step it up. He doesn't have to score. He needs to find the open guys better than anyone else on the floor. That's what a true PG does. If he can do that and stay out of foul trouble, we will have a deep run in March. If he doesn't, I look for an early exit in the tournament.

 

[tarwhiz]

I think Seth is a role player who’s doing a really good job at playing his role right now. Elliot Cadeau is a role player who’s really important that he plays at a starter level for us to do anything significant this season.

I would fear that we would be very dependent on iso ball with Seth getting 28 MPG as a starter. And I’m not quite ready to turn this team into a defense-first team. I still think scoring is the best way for this team to find March success.

And Seth has played really well, no question. But his improved shooting is on a really small sample size. He’s what? 7-12 from 3 this year? It’s great that those shots have gone in and, in the end, that’s all that matters. But I don’t know if his jump shot has improved to the degree his statistics say they did.

Obviously Cadeau is a shooting 0 so far. But I think this team’s upside is tied to how he plays this year. Honestly, a reason why we’ve been good but probably short of great is that Cadeau probably hasn’t lived up to expectations. If Cadeau were anywhere near freshman Kendall Marshall, Ty Lawson or Jason Kidd, UNC would be a top 3 team in the country right now and one of the favorites to win it all.

I don’t think this is a bandaid situation. Cadeau is a true PG. This team desperately needed a true PG. I don’t think Seth is a true PG.

As opposed to making a significant change. How about Cadeau just play better? How about go a game without getting into foul trouble?

Perfect response! I couldn't have said it better.

 

[strummingram]

If it ain't broke, don't FIX IT. That's the phrase. It's not broken...so, no need to fix anything.

 

[dtodd4475]

I actually like the split time as needed that they are getting. We have a core 4 and a split time 5th (Cadeau & Trimble as needed). Withers and Washington as the bench minutes. Solid 8 man rotation. As always hope the core stays healthy.

 

[superstar57]

Trimble is in a position with not starting he can play without high expectations. He can guard any guard, but offensively and from a PG standpoint he is limited.
RJ is possibly ACC player of the year, but he is not a great PG, and that is why you start EC, he makes everyone else a weapon when he is in the game.

Hats off to Seth he deserves every minute he gets this year, although EC is having growing pains, he is still our best PG.

 

[sdingeldein]

No. RJ is a bigger threat at the two position. Cadeau needs to stay out of foul trouble and become more of an offensive threat. He is learning to play at this level and will be fine. Trimble will start next year for sure.

 

[Agsmith9]

I think Seth is a role player who’s doing a really good job at playing his role right now. Elliot Cadeau is a role player who’s really important that he plays at a starter level for us to do anything significant this season.

I would fear that we would be very dependent on iso ball with Seth getting 28 MPG as a starter. And I’m not quite ready to turn this team into a defense-first team. I still think scoring is the best way for this team to find March success.

And Seth has played really well, no question. But his improved shooting is on a really small sample size. He’s what? 7-12 from 3 this year? It’s great that those shots have gone in and, in the end, that’s all that matters. But I don’t know if his jump shot has improved to the degree his statistics say they did.

Obviously Cadeau is a shooting 0 so far. But I think this team’s upside is tied to how he plays this year. Honestly, a reason why we’ve been good but probably short of great is that Cadeau probably hasn’t lived up to expectations. If Cadeau were anywhere near freshman Kendall Marshall, Ty Lawson or Jason Kidd, UNC would be a top 3 team in the country right now and one of the favorites to win it all.

I don’t think this is a bandaid situation. Cadeau is a true PG. This team desperately needed a true PG. I don’t think Seth is a true PG.

As opposed to making a significant change. How about Cadeau just play better? How about go a game without getting into foul trouble?

Yes - let him play through his mistakes, and just play better.

 

[gberry78]

No

 

[DaveChapelle]

No.. but Cadeau isn't doing much to help us either.. true PG or not, he hasn't had a big assist game since the Tennessee game. He isn't putting up any kind of passing numbers to be called a "true PG".. he fouls out or gets in foul trouble constantly. If he was averaging 5-6+ assists per game I'd say he's exactly what we need.. a facilitator. But he's not doing that.

We really need Cadeau to step it up. He doesn't have to score. He needs to find the open guys better than anyone else on the floor. That's what a true PG does. If he can do that and stay out of foul trouble, we will have a deep run in March. If he doesn't, I look for an early exit in the tournament.

Your mistake is assuming only big assist numbers are indicative of Elliot having a positive impact.

We fast break more with Elliot out there. Our secondary break is better with Elliot out there. Our half court offense works better with Elliot out there. He may not be the one getting the assists, but he's usually the one making the first pass in a series of passes that gets us an easy bucket.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Nope!

Alpha Dogs are different animals! With or without growing pains, EC is an absolute DOG! Once a Dog is off the porch, you never try to force him back onto it! There are ramifications like: EC could get frustrated and regress not grow; EC could get dissatisfied and either divide the team or transfer; other 5*s will see this and wonder if their play dips at all will they be on the bench; EC will not get the chance to learn from his mistakes and might be tentative waiting for a hook after each one; Seth might feel more pressure and play tighter due to the responsibility or to protect his status.

No benefit to fixing what is being shown to be highly effective! EC and his teammates must learn to play together, and EC will quickly learn to keep his hands out of the cookie jar. He will learn that he is more important than one play and will adjust to the speed, strength, and trickery of D-1 guards!

 

[tarwhiz]

No. RJ is a bigger threat at the two position. Cadeau needs to stay out of foul trouble and become more of an offensive threat. He is learning to play at this level and will be fine. Trimble will start next year for sure.

For sure?
It is early and we have all Summer to debate this, but " For sure" is a pretty strong comment.

 

[DSouthr]

The bar of expectation was set to high for the kid by everyone, myself included frankly! While I do believe my expects for the kid were more tempered than most it has been a difficult transition for him, which everyone of us should have expected. But his talent is just to much to look away from because that kid is special, I mean really special.

Should he be benched now, I sure don't think so but I would like to see Hubert give him a strong coaching lesson, I would love to see Hubert tell him and enforce it, as soon as you pick up your first foul in the first half I am pulling you for the rest of the half. You have to learn to defend without fouling, you do not help us sitting on the bench in foul trouble. So want to play, don't foul, defend but stop taking risks that get you in to trouble.

WE are just a more potent team with Cadeau on the floor in that our pace ramps up, we become a breaking team, RJ at the point and we are a half court team. RJ is a much better player when he is able to worry about his own offense rather than setting the stage.

I am not really worried about Cadeau not shooting much, not worried that defenses will back off him and double elsewhere, like they did with leaky or Nance. Would you really want to back off Cadeau, and give him free space to operate in? You really want to allow Cadeau to drive without a defender to even slow him down, you really want to give a great creative passer a free unencumbered ability to pass any where he wants unchecked? That would play right in to the kid's wheelhouse strength, that would build his confidence, last thing I would look to do if coaching against him. You can back off a touch and give him a shot and just play him to drive, lot of that is going on now and has been. But you can not back off Cadeau like they did Leaky because Cadeau will drive you and pick you apart.

I don't think you will find a greater supporter of Seth than myself, love the kid, felt he should have played a lot more last season. What Seth gives us is vital and he is getting solid minutes, I don't see reason to mess that up, if it ain't broke.

 

[UNC-75]

I like the spark that Trimble gives us when he is first called on. That would be lost if he starts. Just hope they have EC shooting 1000 shots a day to help that along.

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

Great responses so far and that is what I hoped for. I think we all agree that Cadeau is the straw that stirs the drink and we also agree he needs to look for his shot more often like driving and more importantly stop picking up silly fouls. Here are the keys young man now drive us home to March madness…

 

[superstar57]

It feels like if Cadeau can get it together before March, and we stay healthy this could be a special team. Shout out to Coach Davis for given us fans a fun team to watch!

 

[Heels5150]

EC has a tendency to turn his head momentarily on defense at times and when that happens he loses his man and he is in recovery mode. Why he is trying to recover 2 things happen 1) EC comes in late and fouls 2) as we rotate over the opposing team catches us scrambling and scores or gets a good look for a shot. These are learning disciplines that EC is still learning. EC’s ceiling is incredibly high and to get where we want to EC has to be on the court. EC just seems to be thinking too much instead of just getting lost in the game and playing and that is a result of playing high caliber Division One games and trying to get adjusted to this team and the competition. We see the flashes and his over talent and he just needs continuous seasoning. We also need for EC to become a reliable outside threat. We are already tough to beat but if that happens we will be almost impossible to beat.

 

[al would]

Don't think so bro. EC needs to start both for his confidence and further development. Besides the team plays with, or at, a much better tempo with him at pg. Somebody mentioned ECs shot mechanics the other day and it does seem he's shooting to much with his arm and not his wrist which has a tendency to make his shots flat but that's not really that uncommon with younger players as their upper body and legs haven't developed quite enough strength so they tend to compensate by using their arms more. Same with the shots on his drives lacking elevation. Those coaches at UNC know this but as a freshman pg I'm sure there are other things a little more important atm. His shot will come soon enough and he's not that far off now. Bacot still does it more often than not and that's why his shots continue to hit the iron on the shot side. Zion hit a sweet baby baseline hook against Clem and all he hit was net. That was a purty shot.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I also don’t really view Seth as a PG right now. I view him closer to a wing to be honest. Something between Dexter Strickland and a wing.

That doesn’t mean he can’t start. I actually can see RJ, Ryan, Seth 1-3. But I wouldn’t want to place added responsibility on RJ. He already has to do a ton offensively.

Like Dex, I don’t think Seth can really run the offense. I cringed everytime Dex would get the ball in the backcourt, waive off Kendall then take the ball up the court. Dex was more of a wing than he was a PG.

(I know a lot will disagree. Lol)

 

[gauchoheel]

No. RJ is a bigger threat at the two position. Cadeau needs to stay out of foul trouble and become more of an offensive threat. He is learning to play at this level and will be fine. Trimble will start next year for sure.

I see RJ, Cadeau, Ingram, Jackson, Powell as all potentially on the roster next year. Maybe 1-2 won't be, but outlook still seems unsure on starters.

 

[2DDIMOND]

I see RJ, Cadeau, Ingram, Jackson, Powell as all potentially on the roster next year. Maybe 1-2 won't be, but outlook still seems unsure on starters.

I don't think that both RJ and Cadeau will be on the roster next year. I think it will be one or the other. No info, just my gut.

 

[alabamaheel]

I don't think that both RJ and Cadeau will be on the roster next year. I think it will be one or the other. No info, just my gut.

If RJ stays at the same level he’s been playing, I see him leaving to go get paid to play somewhere. Don’t know where, but plenty of places to make a decent living.

 

[superstar57]

I don't think that both RJ and Cadeau will be on the roster next year. I think it will be one or the other. No info, just my gut.

RJ going pro, nothing left to prove in college. If Colby White is making a living in the league, RJ will surely get a shot.

EC and Ian Jackson will be the show next year.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

I love and am thoroughly enjoying this year's team, but just thinking about the athleticism of next year's team gets me giddy. Drake, Captain Jack added to Seth, a stronger Jalen and High after his soph bump..... Oh my!

 

[tarwhiz]

I love and am thoroughly enjoying this year's team, but just thinking about the athleticism of next year's team gets me giddy. Drake, Captain Jack added to Seth, a stronger Jalen and High after his soph bump..... Oh my!

Return to Carolina basketball in 2024 ✔️
Return to Carolina talent in 2025 ✔️

 

[Geth]

What if he goes into a funk being relegated to the bench and looks to transfer?

EC has proven to be a walking foul out clearly has not fully adapted to the speed and complexities of playing defense effectively without putting the team in danger by being at risk of fouling out almost every game- he needs to improve his composure.

Trimble is not a true PG and will not run the team like EC but he certainly is more of a scoring threat and is without question the better defender if not the best on the team. Seth has earned more game time through his off season commitment to improving, and if those minutes come at the expense of EC not just because he is at risk of fouling out- so be it.

I don't want anything to do with a player who can't take the message that he needs to improve which results in him not starting a game here or there if it changes my coaching instinct as a result. This era of kids throwing their toys out of the stroller and moving to a 2nd, 3rd, 4th school simply because they aren't happy is BS in my opinion and it sets up unrealistic scenarios by which a coach has to go soft and not put the needs of the team in front of the egos of a kid.

 

[sdingeldein]

For sure?
It is early and we have all Summer to debate this, but " For sure" is a pretty strong comment.

strong wild ass guesses seem to be common here. I think he will start.

 

[sdingeldein]

Return to Carolina basketball in 2024 ✔️
Return to Carolina talent in 2025 ✔️

Perfect view. It takes time. HD knows what he is doing.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Your mistake is assuming only big assist numbers are indicative of Elliot having a positive impact.

We fast break more with Elliot out there. Our secondary break is better with Elliot out there. Our half court offense works better with Elliot out there. He may not be the one getting the assists, but he's usually the one making the first pass in a series of passes that gets us an easy bucket.

Either way, he is in foul trouble way too much. Even if its not his fault.. He has to stay out of foul trouble in order for us to be special. Also, his expectations were a lot higher than this to keep giving him excuses..

 

[DSouthr]

Folks saying that Seth can not play the point strikes me as funny, I would ask how you know that considering that you can count the number of minutes he has actually been in as our PG on 1 hand since he has been on our team? I actually believe that before you say a kid can't play a position that maybe you would want a kid to have the chance to before you say he can't.

Maybe the better question is why has he not been given the chance and of course the answer to that is easy, Caleb/RJ, Cadeau/RJ. Wilcher is not a Tar Heel why, because he wanted a shot at playing the point and the Cadeau/RJ road block was not going to allow that. Recall that Hubert had to tap dance with RJ just to get RJ to accept Cadeau coming in early, no way you didn't know that RJ was going to be our PG any time Cadeau was not in the game. If the 3rd guy in line at the point wants to play at all he has to learn a different position, exactly what Seth has done, exactly what Wilcher did not seem interested in doing.

There are all types of PGs, anything from Magic Johnson at what 6'9" to Mugsey Boges who has a summer place in Munchkin land. To say that Seth could not be a Cadeau like PG well duh, no they are very different types of players so of course they are not going to play it the same way.

 

[DSouthr]

Either way, he is in foul trouble way too much. Even if its not his fault.. He has to stay out of foul trouble in order for us to be special. Also, his expectations were a lot higher than this to keep giving him excuses..

Cadeau should not be held to the expectations of fans, fans believe and expect all kinds of crazy things and most of the time fans expectations are crazy way to high. Frankly I think what we see from Cadeau should be where the expectations should have been, he is a freshman, he is trying to learn the hardest position as a freshman, he is going to make mistakes. The kid is going to learn by playing thru his mistakes but make no mistake here, kid is dynamic and once he gets thru this adjustment to the college game you will completely forget about any concerns you may have for him now. You have to let the cake bake before it tastes like it should.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Right now, Seth is excelling as a change of pace sub and a defensive stopper! He is playing with freedom and his confidence is growing by the minute! It would be idiotic for our coach to start giving him time at Point when we have two better options already! The entire time he has been here, there were at least 2 better options. Seth is a true Tar Heel and has found a niche. He is the perfect example of the Carolina Way and has decided team is greater than personal. The end result is that he is making the team better AND is showing peeps his skill + his dedication to a team! Win-Win!

 

[TPFKAPFS]

EC was anointed as a savior the day he committed! Decades of evidence that proved few PGs hit the ground running, especially in our system, was ignored by our giddy fans! He has grown very rapidly, but he still hasn't reached the expectations of many. The good news is he is exactly where calmer fans and, more importantly, our coaches want him to be! This is one more proof that we have the perfect set of coaches and the exact successor UNC needed to restore us to our traditional glory! Hubs didn't just hand a newbie the keys to our program, he went with experience! This one brilliant move in the face of strident complaints to the point that many questioned his fitness for the job, led to a tight knit group of players who are growing together and who play for each other instead of themselves! It removed a great deal of the pressure from EC and allowed him to start adjusting to the D-1 game! Each game, we see evolution in his game, and it is clear he is very close to a breakout!

 

[DSouthr]

Right now, Seth is excelling as a change of pace sub and a defensive stopper! He is playing with freedom and his confidence is growing by the minute! It would be idiotic for our coach to start giving him time at Point when we have two better options already! The entire time he has been here, there were at least 2 better options. Seth is a true Tar Heel and has found a niche. He is the perfect example of the Carolina Way and has decided team is greater than personal. The end result is that he is making the team better AND is showing peeps his skill + his dedication to a team! Win-Win!

I watched Seth before coming to UNC, the kid played with absolute abandon especially as a creative scorer using that insane athletism, it was something to see. He got to us and was put in as a defensive specialist but he was not running the team, in fact the very very few ops he came in as our PG he still was not running the team, it was always either Caleb or RJ but Seth picking up the PG on the defensive end. Yeah, I felt that was a mistake by Hubert but considering that Caleb/RJ back court started in the natty game the season before it is a mistake I understand him making. I didn't agree with it but I did understand it.

But I watched as Seth's confidence shrank, he went from giving us really good play in that triple OT loss to bama to a shell of what he was to end the season, I was worried that he would enter the portal, so glad he didn't. What Seth has done is he has just become a basketball player that is not defined by position, you don't see that often, not in the day where kids go back on their commits just because they may not play the position they define themselves by, Seth stands out in that respect.

 

[tarwhiz]

strong wild ass guesses seem to be common here. I think he will start.

I tend to think he will start too, but won't go the " For sure starter "yet
I don't think BOTH Jackson and Powell start next season, I would prefer Jackson to start with Cadeau, Trimble, Ingram and JWASH.
I do think we need Zayden High to make the big Freshman to sophomore jump to be our primary 4 in the big lineup.
High would either sub in for Ingram or move him to the 3 spot. This has got to be an option vs tge bigger more athletic teams we will see in big games.

 

[DSouthr]

EC was anointed as a savior the day he committed! Decades of evidence that proved few PGs hit the ground running, especially in our system, was ignored by our giddy fans! He has grown very rapidly, but he still hasn't reached the expectations of many. The good news is he is exactly where calmer fans and, more importantly, our coaches want him to be! This is one more proof that we have the perfect set of coaches and the exact successor UNC needed to restore us to our traditional glory! Hubs didn't just hand a newbie the keys to our program, he went with experience! This one brilliant move in the face of strident complaints to the point that many questioned his fitness for the job, led to a tight knit group of players who are growing together and who play for each other instead of themselves! It removed a great deal of the pressure from EC and allowed him to start adjusting to the D-1 game! Each game, we see evolution in his game, and it is clear he is very close to a breakout!

I want to make sure I draw a hard line between Hubert's coaching decisions last season and his decisions since that decision was made not to play in the NIT. TP, you and I went thru it a little bit back then, a lot of those decisions last season made little sense to me, we went thru those best I recall point by point and yes it sure did shake my faith in Hubert as a coach.

BUT, I have been very pleased with his decisions since then, don't agree with all of them but I didn't always agree with Roy either but it never meant I didn't want him to be our coach. What I am saying is Hubert seems to have developed as a coach and he did it really quickly, his decisions are like night and day from his first 2 seasons as our coach.