Well, to be fair it wouldn't be all bad. If you didn't watch anymore you wouldn't have the stress of yelling at the TV telling Roy to CALL A DAMN TIMEOUT!
More to come?...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
Good point.
My wife at this point just goes "relax, you know he's not going to call one, why do you still get so mad at him."
She doesn't get it.
What does NIL stand for?
I find several things interesting about the current turn of this discussion:
1. Our "love" of UNC sure seems shallow if all it takes is someone taking a stance I disagree with to tarnish it!
2. Our "love" of UNC sure seems rooted in my own self-worth if I get angry when they don't do as I say!
3. Our definition of "Family" sure seems lacking if it removes the idea that Family members have free will! (I wonder if every member of our families behaves as we would like???)
4. The condescension it takes to assume one knows what the entire BLM movement believes in is titanic and the same idea as trying to tell other people: who they should listen to, have as heroes, what to call themselves, how to speak, where to live, and what percentage of a human they get to be!
I don't know if I am considered part of the BLM movement or not, but I do know that I value all life. I fight hard to resist my urge to paint groups of people with a broad brush, but I do fall short at times. I fight against a lifetime of evidence when I am faced daily with systemic and individual racism. I am proud that my son doesn't understand when my wife and I give each other the look when we are the last served in a restaurant or passed over for seating or followed by a store detective! I am afraid for him because his belief in the goodness of people might just get him killed during a routine traffic stop but I resist the urge to explain why he needs the speech about how to act during that stop! He came to me recently and said, "I'm sorry pops, I just always thought you guys were way too sensitive!"
Change is often uncomfortable and even painful, but it sure seems unavoidable....this time!
We are swiftly learning that some have some not too deeply buried vestiges of a bygone era and are having trouble articulating why they are angry. I posit that the difficulty stems from the knowledge that the real reason for the anger is something they may not be ready to except about themselves. Love will eventually fix it so fight the misplaced anger and, even if one can never release it ourselves, teach your children to: never judge lest you be judged AND love your neighbors as you would yourself! Teach them to get to know someone before they decide how to interact. Trust me, many people are deserving of anger (often including me), but far more people deserve love!
I find several things interesting about the current turn of this discussion:
1. Our "love" of UNC sure seems shallow if all it takes is someone taking a stance I disagree with to tarnish it!
2. Our "love" of UNC sure seems rooted in my own self-worth if I get angry when they don't do as I say!
3. Our definition of "Family" sure seems lacking if it removes the idea that Family members have free will! (I wonder if every member of our families behaves as we would like???)
4. The condescension it takes to assume one knows what the entire BLM movement believes in is titanic and the same idea as trying to tell other people: who they should listen to, have as heroes, what to call themselves, how to speak, where to live, and what percentage of a human they get to be!
I don't know if I am considered part of the BLM movement or not, but I do know that I value all life. I fight hard to resist my urge to paint groups of people with a broad brush, but I do fall short at times. I fight against a lifetime of evidence when I am faced daily with systemic and individual racism. I am proud that my son doesn't understand when my wife and I give each other the look when we are the last served in a restaurant or passed over for seating or followed by a store detective! I am afraid for him because his belief in the goodness of people might just get him killed during a routine traffic stop but I resist the urge to explain why he needs the speech about how to act during that stop! He came to me recently and said, "I'm sorry pops, I just always thought you guys were way too sensitive!"
Change is often uncomfortable and even painful, but it sure seems unavoidable....this time!
We are swiftly learning that some have some not too deeply buried vestiges of a bygone era and are having trouble articulating why they are angry. I posit that the difficulty stems from the knowledge that the real reason for the anger is something they may not be ready to except about themselves. Love will eventually fix it so fight the misplaced anger and, even if one can never release it ourselves, teach your children to: never judge lest you be judged AND love your neighbors as you would yourself! Teach them to get to know someone before they decide how to interact. Trust me, many people are deserving of anger (often including me), but far more people deserve love!
We're in agreement on most of this, but what about if it's something you feel strongly about?
Suppose your team decided to sport swastikas or KKK symbols?
I don't understand why Archer and some others are so upset at the prospect of players wearing BLM. But is that only because I'm OK with BLM?
I think peeps should stand up for what they believe in actually! I would make the extreme sacrifice and disavow my love for the Heels if they supported something so evil as either of those examples. (or if they didn't support the current movement) I would not lose respect for any of the guys who said they would stop supporting the Heels because they are making a philosophical stand, however, I would lose respect for them due to the fact that the gesture proves they support the continued subjugation of my entire race! A fine point but hopefully clear.
I repeat, peeps need to be careful which side of history they fall upon! Sooner or later peeps will write about our era and I want to be on the righteous side!
I repeat, peeps need to be careful which side of history they fall upon! Sooner or later peeps will write about our era and I want to be on the righteous side!
Equating someone's dislike of BLM with their burning, looting, and their chants of "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!"; with "supporting the continued subjugation of your entire race", is about what I would expect from someone like you who appears to be more racially biased with every post.
What about black on black violence, gang banging, high dropout rates, and having two thirds of their kids out of wedlock? Aren't those things harmful to Black Americans? Don't the lives of all the many, many POC killed every week in Baltimore, Chicago, etc... matter? When BLM protests those issues with the same enthusiasm as they display whenever there is a POC killed by a LEO(less than 1% of black homicides), then I'll support them. Until then, it's just selective outrage being fueled by left wing extremists.
If you want to support them, fine. I don't. hat certainly doesn't equate to wanting "the continued subjugation of your race". I don't know a single person who doesn't want POC to be more successful and self sufficient. Not one. So stop looking at everything in terms of race.
I struggle with the acronyms but I think I have it figured out. LEO is Law Enforcement Officer and POC is Person of Color. Let me know if this is inaccurate. I take great pains to be as tolerant of dissenting views as possible and I have never been accused of being racist in my life. (I guess until now, lol) It is unfortunate if my passion for this particular movement causes some to think I am, but it is a risk I'm willing to take. Putting Black Lives Matter on jerseys is NOT an attempt to support one organization; it is the statement of an unalienable right to life! All Lives can't matter until Black Lives Matter too!
Keep in mind that people can fight multiple issues at the same time even if one issue generates the headlines OR is the catalyst.
It is hard to have to keep repeating the same mantra, but I'll try one more time! I don't give 2 farts about what BLM used to believe when they were a marginal and disorganized fringe society! I do support their current efforts to reform society! I do NOT support violence at all so looters and vandals have no place in this movement! All of the things mentioned in the above post are concerns for the African-American population of this country AND all of them have been a focus for blacks and good people of all races for decades. It turns out these things are NOT related to race, but are strongly correlated with poverty! Black on Black crime is a distraction used to keep the myth that Blacks are prone to violence and allow people to ignore the systemic reasons for the crime. The truth is: Poor people commit crimes in their own communities! Since poor communities are largely homogeneous, they lead to peeps that look alike doing things to each other! The out of wedlock thing is a nationwide phenomenon and is related to education, the lack of stigma for single parents, the restrictions on sex education, government programs and many other factors. It does hit A-A populations at a higher rate, but that is due to the higher rate of poverty! Gang violence has no color and there are more whites in gangs than any other race. Just like there are more in poverty as well. The issue is % of the population and this is once again related to poverty! Finally, one does not have to be a Leftist or Marxist or any other group to protest the killing of unarmed and often compliant human beings! The displaying of the murder of George Floyd is a catalyst that started a movement just like filming Police officers as they beat, sicced dogs upon, used water cannons, and bloodied peaceful protesters trying to march across the Edmund Pettus bridge galvanized the Civil Rights movement! Police brutality is the catalyst but not the entire sum of the protests and I love that America is having these uncomfortable conversations! Seeking equality in education, housing, employment, pay scale, the justice system, and in ordinary people's eyes is what the movement is about not just police killings! I pray it results in lasting change and eventually brings us all back together!
Love is all we need!
Keep in mind that people can fight multiple issues at the same time even if one issue generates the headlines OR is the catalyst.
It is hard to have to keep repeating the same mantra, but I'll try one more time! I don't give 2 farts about what BLM used to believe when they were a marginal and disorganized fringe society! I do support their current efforts to reform society! I do NOT support violence at all so looters and vandals have no place in this movement! All of the things mentioned in the above post are concerns for the African-American population of this country AND all of them have been a focus for blacks and good people of all races for decades. It turns out these things are NOT related to race, but are strongly correlated with poverty! Black on Black crime is a distraction used to keep the myth that Blacks are prone to violence and allow people to ignore the systemic reasons for the crime. The truth is: Poor people commit crimes in their own communities! Since poor communities are largely homogeneous, they lead to peeps that look alike doing things to each other! The out of wedlock thing is a nationwide phenomenon and is related to education, the lack of stigma for single parents, the restrictions on sex education, government programs and many other factors. It does hit A-A populations at a higher rate, but that is due to the higher rate of poverty! Gang violence has no color and there are more whites in gangs than any other race. Just like there are more in poverty as well. The issue is % of the population and this is once again related to poverty! Finally, one does not have to be a Leftist or Marxist or any other group to protest the killing of unarmed and often compliant human beings! The displaying of the murder of George Floyd is a catalyst that started a movement just like filming Police officers as they beat, sicced dogs upon, used water cannons, and bloodied peaceful protesters trying to march across the Edmund Pettus bridge galvanized the Civil Rights movement! Police brutality is the catalyst but not the entire sum of the protests and I love that America is having these uncomfortable conversations! Seeking equality in education, housing, employment, pay scale, the justice system, and in ordinary people's eyes is what the movement is about not just police killings! I pray it results in lasting change and eventually brings us all back together!
Love is all we need!
We at least agree on these points. My life’s mantra is “Do unto others...” It pretty much covers everything.
No one is saying they don't. That's the issue. You may wish people believed that black lives don't matter. But to suggest our country, as a whole, doesn't believe black lives matter - so much so that there needs to be a movement to reiterate this fact - is complete bullshit. Black lives do matter. And I've never even met a person that would disagree with that statement. So should we start stating the obvious all the time? How about we make jerseys that say, "Starting Forest Fires Is Bad!" I mean, I don't know anyone that believes starting forest fires is good but maybe we should start a movement just so we can yell at people that don't feel we need to constantly be reminded that starting forest fires is bad.
Then you should be supporting them...because they talk about these issues ALL. THE. TIME.
The news just doesn't cover it.
I went to a small business owners meeting in my city a few weeks back...lots of topics, not just racial issues. However, a few minority owned business leaders got up to speak and they didn't once mention police brutality. They spoke entirely about how they want their business to be successful so their kids can go to better schools, so they have something to leave them, so they will grow up better than they did.
You just likely aren't putting yourself in places to hear those things. But just because you think cuz it's not on Fox News it's not being said is wrong. Most black communities discuss those things a hell of a lot more than they talk about police brutality in my experience of living in some very diverse cities.
Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors said in a newly surfaced video from 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists” – making clear their movement’s ideological foundation, according to a report.
The center, which describes its philosophy as “an urban experiment,” uses grassroots organization to “focus on Black and Latino communities with deep historical ties to the long history of anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, pro-communist resistance to the US empire,” according to the outlet.
It also expresses its appreciation for the work of the US Communist Party, “especially Black communists,” as well as its support for “the great work of the Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970s,” Breitbart reported.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
The co-founder of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, Patrisse Cullors, was the protégé of a communist-supporting domestic terrorist for over a decade, spending years training in political organizing and absorbing the radical Marxist-Leninist ideology which shaped her worldview.
Eric Mann, who mentored Cullors for over a decade in community organizing, was a member of radical-left militant groups: Students for a Democratic Society and the Weather Underground, which bombed government buildings and police stations in the 1960s and 1970s.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...omestic-terrorist-who-worked-with-bill-ayers/
I recall all the fun we had with SDS and the Weather Underground. Those folks didn't play.
The center, which describes its philosophy as “an urban experiment,” uses grassroots organization to “focus on Black and Latino communities with deep historical ties to the long history of anti-colonial, anti-imperialist, pro-communist resistance to the US empire,” according to the outlet.
It also expresses its appreciation for the work of the US Communist Party, “especially Black communists,” as well as its support for “the great work of the Black Panther Party, the American Indian Movement, Young Lords, Brown Berets, and the great revolutionary rainbow experiments of the 1970s,” Breitbart reported.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
The co-founder of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, Patrisse Cullors, was the protégé of a communist-supporting domestic terrorist for over a decade, spending years training in political organizing and absorbing the radical Marxist-Leninist ideology which shaped her worldview.
Eric Mann, who mentored Cullors for over a decade in community organizing, was a member of radical-left militant groups: Students for a Democratic Society and the Weather Underground, which bombed government buildings and police stations in the 1960s and 1970s.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...omestic-terrorist-who-worked-with-bill-ayers/
I recall all the fun we had with SDS and the Weather Underground. Those folks didn't play.
You realize the BLM "group" and BLM movement are two completely entirely separate things right?
BLM leaders of the group are awful, racist, crap people. No one is defending them in any of these discussions.
BLM leaders of the group are awful, racist, crap people. No one is defending them in any of these discussions.
Why aren't those discussions more publicized? Are there organizers for this? Where are they on social media? Are they on the courthouse steps in every major city calling attention to those issues that are far more significant (in numbers) than the microscopic numbers of blacks being killed by police? Are black leaders going on the television and radio tour talking about these issues? If not, why not?
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Then why aren't other black leaders denouncing them? The ones that have condemned BLM have been kicked out of the black race - Terry Crews, Candace Ownes, Larry Elder, etc.
Your first point is the important point.
I'm not sure I'd take the word or spin of folks like Breitbart on how awful the BLM organization leaders are. Maybe they are; probably not. After all, why would anyone accept what Breitbart or NYPost or FOX say about anything?
Yet tons of people donate money to them. Clearly the word needs to get out about what sort of organization this is. Often, people are called racists and shut down when criticizing the org.
Google Allen West - A Black Man’s response to Black Lives Matter
Spot on, I wish he was running for President.
Spot on, I wish he was running for President.
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The definition of Marxism is the theory of Karl Marx which says that society's classes are the cause of struggle and that society should have no classes. It is referring to socio-economic class which is exactly what I proposed as the basis for many of the problems listed by many peeps on this thread. There is nothing inherently wrong with Marxism since it proposes that people should have equal access to resources AND be treated as equally important. Removing barriers to access IS NOT taking from the rich and giving to the poor! It says I will not hinder people from working their arse off to succeed! I do take issue with real-world Communism which, while based on some of Marx's theories, simply places all power in a few chosen ones' hands and keeps the masses from ever rising above their pre-determined class.
BUT I really don't understand why people insist on wasting valuable time, energy, emotion, etc on debating the merits of one organization! Get over the organization and teach those in your bubble to simply love people for being humans-not hate them for being different! Embrace differing ideas and disagree with intelligence not vitriol!
BTW: I thought about being called racist all night. I don't understand the accusation since I have not said one negative thing about a single race in all my posts! For example, I said "people who oppose this movement are supporting the subjugation of an entire race" I did not say or mean or even think "white people" Actually, I have no idea what race most of you are!
The only conclusion I can think of is it keeps people from actually combating the evils in our society while giving them a salve for their conscience! A simple change in one's thinking makes it more palatable: BLM in my mind has nothing to do with the freaking organization, it refers to the movement to fight systemic racism! SO..if you oppose the movement, you are indeed complicit! Disagreeing with methodology, concepts, scope, organizations, or individuals within the movement is simply exercising your right to free thinking and I welcome the debate!
BUT I really don't understand why people insist on wasting valuable time, energy, emotion, etc on debating the merits of one organization! Get over the organization and teach those in your bubble to simply love people for being humans-not hate them for being different! Embrace differing ideas and disagree with intelligence not vitriol!
BTW: I thought about being called racist all night. I don't understand the accusation since I have not said one negative thing about a single race in all my posts! For example, I said "people who oppose this movement are supporting the subjugation of an entire race" I did not say or mean or even think "white people" Actually, I have no idea what race most of you are!
The only conclusion I can think of is it keeps people from actually combating the evils in our society while giving them a salve for their conscience! A simple change in one's thinking makes it more palatable: BLM in my mind has nothing to do with the freaking organization, it refers to the movement to fight systemic racism! SO..if you oppose the movement, you are indeed complicit! Disagreeing with methodology, concepts, scope, organizations, or individuals within the movement is simply exercising your right to free thinking and I welcome the debate!
Bingo!
The other major marxist view has to do with the value added by labor to the production of goods and services. Hardly revolutionary now, but was in his era, when the owners of the land and factories were saying that it's only the owners and investors who generate wealth.
That, by the way, is a big part of why the socialists of yore argued for workers to own the means of production (the factories, etc.). Less relevant today in the gig/service/virtual economy. Which always makes me wonder why so many people are still afraid of terms like "socialism" and "marxism."
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