Orlando Night Club Shooting
- Thread starter UNC '92
- Start date
I'm not sure if it was fueled by Christian doctrine, but I can't dismiss it. But regardless, what can be done at this point?
Well Obama just gave a speech I actually agree with! hmmmmm Yep, go ahead and give me the crap... I know it's coming... you guys are exasperating sometimes... I need to go run on the treadmill for four hours! ughhhhh! I feel like I've been beating my head in a wall.... on that note... some of you (NOT ALL though lol) can
KISS MY TAR HEEL BUTT!
not my butt! hahahaha I am just being nice and showing you a cute one before I leave! toodles!
Oh shut up. You talk about how we're exasperating yet you poast a irrelevant, baiting and stupid poast just so we can reply and you can get all exasperated some more. You love this shit more than you love the D, which is significant by your own admission.
Frankly, this is a mess that I'm not sure can be corrected without some very humble actions. I don't think that you're going to ever be able to stop these people from acting-out violently at this point. I think a great deal of these acts are acts of revenge, directly and indirectly, for the reasons heelmanwilm has been offering. This guy in Orlando was not an Islamic Terrorist act, in my opinion. I think I've seen enough evidence to prove that this man was not acting on behalf of any larger group, like ISIS.
But, as far as trying to lower the possibilities by removing people or keeping people out? I think you'll wind up doing more harm than good in the long run. What we are seeing now, and for the last 30 or more years, in terms of terrorist attacks, is the blowback from our own (and other western countries) actions dating back to the early-mid 20th Century. I think it will just have to play itself out. What you DON'T want to do is perpetuate it! You don't want to make future terrorists by your actions NOW!
Maybe that's so. But he felt empowered enough to do it because of the tension between the west and muslims. That's the biggest problem of all - that we submitted to a culture where we value the feelings of minority groups over the lives of Americans. 20 years ago, this poor, bullied muslim kills only himself. Boy, those were the days.
This thread is getting more action than Ron Jeremy.
Do his pledging allegiance to ISIS on the 911 call and saying that the Boston Marathon bombers were his heroes, serve as sufficient evidence?
Speculation.
How do you know he felt empowered from that? Or, if he did, to what level or extent that triggered his behavior? Most of these lone killers are just off their rockers... period. It's practically impossible to stop people who have come unglued like that. That kid in Charleston, same thing. I think we're more aware of these things due to being so linked-up to each other by the Internet. 30 years ago, you read about it, or heard about it, maybe. But, you didn't sit and type and discuss it with people for 2-3 days, or weeks afterward, and dwell on it. That only makes it more vivid and seem more dangerous.
Based on how and when he pledged his allegiance? Nope.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-gunman-omar-mateen-sexual-confusion-isis-loyalty/
Not to nit pick, but it was actually Charles Martel who defeated the Muslims at Tours, not Charlemagne. Charlemagne was a the grandson of Charles Martel.
saw the speech as well...the dude can't win, no matter what he says.
at any rate, some opinions on why it's so important to say "radical islam" or "islamic extremism"?
at any rate, some opinions on why it's so important to say "radical islam" or "islamic extremism"?
So given that we can;t stop these people from acting out violently, how would you suggest we go about keeping the violence away from our neighborhoods? Or do we just accept that they will be violent and let them go about their business of killing?
What do you suggest doing for the next 30 years until they have played themselves out?
Don't tell me what we don't want to do. Tell me what we should do.
I would like to see Congress to formally declare that a state of war exist between the U.S.A. and the Islamic State in Iraq and The Levant. Activate the National Guard and State millitias in the U.S.A to guard the border, high-value targets, and other targets as directed by National Command Authority.
Speaking of speculation, how do you know what course of action will or will not perpetuate this problem? @UNC71-00 beat me to it by asking what exactly it is we are supposed to be doing. "Letting it play out" is going pretty badly IMO.
And now apparently there is an "active shooter situation with hostages" in a Walmart in Texas right now.
Quick - let's give the guy a hug so he'll let everyone go. smh.
Quick - let's give the guy a hug so he'll let everyone go. smh.
A few quotes from the article you linked:
"This to me suggests somebody that may have had sexual identity issues and may have actually been struggling with the idea that he himself was gay and that would add a different motive and a different perspective on the case," O'Toole said.
The former FBI profiler said that while he may have been confused, that wasn't reason enough for the rampage.
It is unlikely that Mateen hated gays alone, O'Toole said. People who do what he did are generally not that specific.
"It involves an ability to view the world not as an angry man, but as a person filled with hatred, and not just hatred for gays," O'Toole said. "I've never had a case yet where the individual was just hateful of one particular group like women or blacks or gays -- they hate everybody. So they have this nihilist view of the world."
Ok - so he may have even been gay himself, and regardless - the FBI person essentially ruled that out (the whole gay angle) as reason for the rampage.
I think the rationale is that by not acknowledging that radical islam is the cause of these attacks we are deflecting the real issue at hand.
Well, knowing what you shouldn't do is helpful, no? It's very helpful when you're quite possibly making the same mistakes and not learning from them.
I think it would be very helpful if our leaders in Washington, and even on state levels, made a concerted effort to interact with Muslim organizations and groups, domestically, who are opposed to these attacks, and make that very public. To try and find some solutions with them as guidance. I think if our leadership made visible efforts to work with these groups in a joint effort to try and solve this as best they can, for everyone, it would do wonders and maybe help shed some light on it from many angles that we may have never considered. Those Muslim groups could act as a conduit. They can hopefully be able to have better insight and act as a sort of emissary, or advisory group. Basically, the President, or some representative(s) of our government works with the peaceful elements of that religion here at home and try to come up with a plan. That way it doesn't seem like a one-sided, arrogant effort on behalf of our government and whatever religion THEY are associated with according to these extremists (assuming that is an issue with them).
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Well, you believe what you want, and I'll do the same. I think it's pretty obvious that the "gay angle" is precisely why he did it.
How it's playing out could be much worse, believe it or not.
I'll ask you directly:
Does violence create more violence?
Fair enough. I'll trust the judgment of the person who's job it is to determine what "angle" was the cause of it. Call me crazy.
So your proposed solution is to have federal and state leaders publicly meet with Muslim organizations and groups and have them provide guidance in coming up with a solution so it is a bi-lateral solution?
Did I sum that up correctly?
Well, in this situation, where it's come down to who can "out-violence" each other, I don't think it's reducing further violence.
LMAO..... nah, I can honestly say I do not love this more than the D.... well, maybe more than miserable, hateful, uptight, boring D so you're half way correct! LOL
I get exasperated because I simply do not understand how, despite of us all admitting that there are some really sh*tty people out there that want to hurt us from all over the world and plenty right here in our own country, that you and a few others just cannot fathom that MAYBE since we have been going things in an aggressive way for SO long and it obviously is not working, and it is only making things worse, that MAYBE we need to try something different.
I am not saying send roses over to Afghanistan and kiss and make up but maybe we should look at other options to disable the enemy and try our damn best to find ways of making peace with the ones that are left over there that actually DO NOT hate us!
It is also very frustrating with this left/right crap you guys are so married to....If Obama said we needed to go and blow them up and get rid of them all and ban them all from the country, you would all be outraged over it but let some dumbass with a R (NOW) beside his name say it and it is the most genius plan ever!
It's like you cannot see how utterly ridiculous this left and right BS really is! Whatever one side says, the sheep follow it and it only, and then when the other side says the same thing 8 years later, you are suddenly against it! If you don't understand my little "mumbo jumbo" as I know you will call it then YOU have a problem and might want to consider taking your head out of your BUTT for a minute and actually think, not just react! xoxoxo
I believe that your proposal has been and continuous to be utilized with scant results. But maybe you have a twist on what is being done now.
Do you have a Plan B if your Plan A doesn't work?
Exactly. What we've been trying hasn't been working - we need to try something different. This is the main reason why I would vote for Trump before I would vote for Clinton. Clinton's goal is maintain the status quo tactics that Obama has used - which have gotten us nowhere. I'd like to see a new tactic deployed.
Not sure what you're referring to. Only a few people here have pointed fingers, and that was pages ago.
I haven't seen any evidence that it's being done with any sort of fervent resolve. I haven't seen where it's being considered, let alone utilized. You get out what you put in. Why should we give-up on that? You don't think that working with domestic, and even foreign, Muslim organizations that want these radicals to stop, and using their influence and recognition wouldn't bring improvements? It would at least separate the "bad" from the "good."
I think Plan A would have a huge impact if it were done with a sincere effort. I KNOW that there are an abundant amount of Muslims that hate this association. I think they have got to become the louder voice and they could use the help of our governmental leaders.
Trying to out-fight the radicals is just going to breed newer radicals and get more innocent people killed. And, if those innocent people are Muslim, it will create more vengeful radicals. if they're American and Christian, it will create more rage from everyone back here to hate ALL Muslims without distinction. That's not going to fix this.
Trump's tactic is to go back to what got us the hatred and revenge motive to begin with. That will be perfect. Invest in munitions and any war industry. Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, whoever makes tanks and guns, etc.. You'll make a killing (no pun intended).
Recognizing not everyone will agree with every point here, but it's time for....
The OOTB List of Proposals to Stem Radical Islamic Terrorism in the U.S.
1) Have federal and state leaders publicly meet with Muslim organizations and groups. Have them provide guidance in coming up with a solution so it is a bi-lateral solution.
2) Halt all Muslim immigration
3) Re-institute some type of assault weapons ban
4) Presidential public acknowledgement of the influence of radical Islam in such attacks
5) .....
The OOTB List of Proposals to Stem Radical Islamic Terrorism in the U.S.
1) Have federal and state leaders publicly meet with Muslim organizations and groups. Have them provide guidance in coming up with a solution so it is a bi-lateral solution.
2) Halt all Muslim immigration
3) Re-institute some type of assault weapons ban
4) Presidential public acknowledgement of the influence of radical Islam in such attacks
5) .....
SOmeone shared this with me:
I'm not sure I agree. But, I don't think an AR-15 is a machine gun.
I'm not sure I agree. But, I don't think an AR-15 is a machine gun.
It is literally in every "political" thread.... left/right.... it is not just on this board either.. People have that crap so ingrained in their conscious now... THAT is what I fear, that society will literally become brain dead to it and just wander about like zombies, doing whatever they are told!
It is the basis of this entire discussion right here.... it may not be specifically typed out in every post but that is the tone... "our way is right", no "our way is right"... it never ends.
I admit I am in the middle on pretty much every political issue because I can see both sides to every argument but this is just nutty how some of these guys on here just cannot see beyond the R or the D. It's crazy!
When I worked for Ron Paul years ago, I literally would watch Sean Hannity rake him over the coals about his foreign policy and then four years later he was ALL for the very thing he was critical of when "his candidates" were not saying that very same thing. It happens on both sides too. How can anyone take it seriously anymore?
