Phil Jackson Says What We All Knew!

[HeelFan58]

Eh, you're giving way too much credit to the Zenmaster. Indeed, part of the reason that nickname stuck is he used to masterfully use the media to play mindgames with the refs and opponents. He's an incredibly good coach. But, he's certainly not above taking petty shots. I mean -- this is a guy who wrote a book where he excoriated Kobe as "uncoachable," and just recently criticized Jim Buss (the brother of his fiance) as "a person that's vaulted into position through his inheritance." The Zenmaster has no problem being petty if you get on his bad side.

With regard to the NBA, while I think there may have been some truth to the NBA knock 10-15 years ago, it's been quite a long time since that's been the case. Frankly, Duke's current alums in the NBA today stack up very well against the current alums of any individual program in the NBA -- with the possible exception of UK that has recently churned out so many NBA guys. But, as others have mentioned, Brand, Boozer, Luol, and Kyrie have all made multiple all-star teams in the past decade, and -- health notwithstanding -- I expect we'll see Kyrie, Parker and Okafor all making quite a few all-star appearances in the years to come. And, to the extent we're focused on "expectations" -- which I view as the expectations going into the NBA -- I would argue that more Duke guys of late have exceeded expectations (see Mason & Miles Plumlee, Lance Thomas, and now Seth Curry) -- than have failed to live up to expectations (see Sheldon and Nolan).

Seth Curry in the NBA???? I don't follow the NBA closely but I missed this one. Also did Mason and Miles Plumlee and Lance Thomas exceed NBA expectations or fail to live up to them at dook? All 3 were pretty highly rated out of HS.

 

[lobstersgopinchpinch]

Seth Curry in the NBA???? I don't follow the NBA closely but I missed this one. Also did Mason and Miles Plumlee and Lance Thomas exceed NBA expectations or fail to live up to them at dook? All 3 were pretty highly rated out of HS.

Per 24/7 consensus rankings, Miles was #50, Mason #25, Lance #23, and Seth #514. Except for Lance, all of those guys have had better success in the NBA than you'd expect given both their high school rank and where they were drafted. Mason has a PER of 18 and is expected to sign a $8M+/year contract with Portland.

 

[aah555]

Seth Curry in the NBA???? I don't follow the NBA closely but I missed this one. Also did Mason and Miles Plumlee and Lance Thomas exceed NBA expectations or fail to live up to them at dook? All 3 were pretty highly rated out of HS.

Curry just got a 2 yr. guaranteed deal from Sacramento after leading the summer league in scoring. He's certainly not a guy who many thought would ever get into the NBA -- particularly before he came to Duke. In fact, I'm pretty sure UNC didn't offer Seth even after his big freshman year at Liberty. Miles Plumlee was a 3* recruit who we picked up at the last second to replace a transfer. Rivals had him ranked at 101. Mason's rankings varied a lot by recruiting service, but Rivals had him at 55. A good prospect with great athleticism. But he was very, very raw and far from a sure thing. He's someone who really improved over 4 years. Rivals ranked Lance Thomas at #42, but he too was hardly a can't miss NBA guy and frankly lacked both ideal NBA size for the 4 position and any discernible NBA-offensive ability. While his ranking would suggest that the NBA was within the realm of possibility, the fact that he's managed to have a multi-year career is still an accomplishment. If you look at the same Rivals rankings, for instance, Alex Stephenson was ranked directly in front of him at 41.

While I'd agree with the general point that college coaches get undo credit for the "development" of NBA talent (as, the individual player's natural ability, work ethic, and character are clearly far more important), I nevertheless do think K does about as good as anyone else at maximizing the talents of his players.

 

[HeelFan58]

Curry just got a 2 yr. guaranteed deal from Sacramento after leading the summer league in scoring. He's certainly not a guy who many thought would ever get into the NBA -- particularly before he came to Duke. In fact, I'm pretty sure UNC didn't offer Seth even after his big freshman year at Liberty. Miles Plumlee was a 3* recruit who we picked up at the last second to replace a transfer. Rivals had him ranked at 101. Mason's rankings varied a lot by recruiting service, but Rivals had him at 55. A good prospect with great athleticism. But he was very, very raw and far from a sure thing. He's someone who really improved over 4 years. Rivals ranked Lance Thomas at #42, but he too was hardly a can't miss NBA guy and frankly lacked both ideal NBA size for the 4 position and any discernible NBA-offensive ability. While his ranking would suggest that the NBA was within the realm of possibility, the fact that he's managed to have a multi-year career is still an accomplishment. If you look at the same Rivals rankings, for instance, Alex Stephenson was ranked directly in front of him at 41.

While I'd agree with the general point that college coaches get undo credit for the "development" of NBA talent (as, the individual player's natural ability, work ethic, and character are clearly far more important), I nevertheless do think K does about as good as anyone else at maximizing the talents of his players.

Marshall Plumlee 4* #62 composite national #6 C, Mason Plumlee 4* #25 composite national #9 PF , Lance Thomas 4* #23 composite national #9 PF. Their composite rankings a bit higher than Rivals , so maybe it was poor evaluation on Rivals part that dropped their overall composite. Many 4* players go on to be all stars in the NBA and even more have solid journeyman careers. I don't see anything unique or surprising that these 3 are having good journeyman careers. Did Seth open up a recruiting process after his freshman year at Liberty?

 

[ChapelHeeled]

Seth Curry in the NBA???? I don't follow the NBA closely but I missed this one. Also did Mason and Miles Plumlee and Lance Thomas exceed NBA expectations or fail to live up to them at dook? All 3 were pretty highly rated out of HS.

Josh McRoberts and #1 overall Shavlick Randolph say HELLO! Former #1 ranked player Chris Burgess (also #1) who got the heck out of Durham also says hello! There have been many, many other BUSTS at Duke (imo; fact). These three stand out because of their Top Five rankings. None of the three did much more than below par (imo) while at Duke. Say what you will but the facts speak for themselves here...

 

[Spaceytoyz]

I stopped replying to the guy debating me because he admitted to not watching NBA games yet we were in a debate about a player in NBA games... I watch and attend have attended more NBA games than anyone on this board so if you know about Pro Ball then lets debate..