Quick stuff (Miami game)...

[gary-7]

If you think we played our best against Miami then you're crazy. We were up like 12 with less than 8 or 9 mins to go.. we blew the lead doing stupid stuff. Turnovers or jacking up bad shots. None of that was caused by Miami scouting us. Bottom line is we played bad in a lot of stretches during the game. We didn't play a full 40 minutes of Carolina basketball.

Dude, wtf are you even reading into what I wrote? Yes, there were some careless turnovers, but what jacked up shots are you talking about? Miami took way more of those than we did, and probably made more than they should have. And who ITT ever said we played 40 minutes of Carolina basketball?

I said specifically that I didn't like taking our foot off the gas too soon, which played into their hands when they increased half-court pressure. But you've been fussing about not holding them under 70, and that's an area where' scouting constantly comes in. You're acting like we survived a scrub team, and that is not the case.

That was a good and needed road win.

 

[gary-7]

That was a

61% career FT shooter, it's always been an issue. And his FT % has gotten progressively worse each season:

66% as a freshman
60% as a sophomore
55% as a junior

Makes no sense to be a knockdown 3-pt shooter and shoot so poorly from the line! I wonder if he's just overperforming his true talent level on threes this year.

Nah, I just see too much motion for a big strong guy at the line. Would love to see him simplify his FT stroke and emulate Mando in having a consistent routine.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Poor RJ was gassed in the second half

For sure. Missed his last 4 shots that I recall, maybe more.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We once again missed Seth

Definitely. Fortunately for us, they were missing George and his 41% 3pt shooting. We're the deeper team, too, so that a trade we can more easily afford. In theory. Almost didn't work out that way, when our bench was mostly MIA.

Bench totals:
32 minutes
1 point
7 rebounds
1 assist
1 steal
1 TO
4 fouls

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

On that note, extremely important minutes from Pax after Cormac made some silly fouls. Pax busted ass and ran down contested boards and played solid D.

He may not be a starter but he's a competent player. He could be the Matt Doherty of this team. Elliot can be Jimmy Black. Then it gets tricky.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Dude, wtf are you even reading into what I wrote? Yes, there were some careless turnovers, but what jacked up shots are you talking about? Miami took way more of those than we did, and probably made more than they should have. And who ITT ever said we played 40 minutes of Carolina basketball?

I said specifically that I didn't like taking our foot off the gas too soon, which played into their hands when they increased half-court pressure. But you've been fussing about not holding them under 70, and that's an area where' scouting constantly comes in. You're acting like we survived a scrub team, and that is not the case.

That was a good and needed road win.

Didn't need to settle for ANY 3 pointers when up by 11 or 12 points under 10 mins to go.. we had Ryan, davis, and Ingram all taking and missing threes during that.

We took like 31 threes that game. Way too many for us.

 

[dtodd4475]

Nah, I just see too much motion for a big strong guy at the line. Would love to see him simplify his FT stroke and emulate Mando in having a consistent routine.

Yes, he is not fluid on his free throws. It did take Mando 5 years to get it from the line though.

 

[RP12]

Didn't need to settle for ANY 3 pointers when up by 11 or 12 points under 10 mins to go.. we had Ryan, davis, and Ingram all taking and missing threes during that.

We took like 31 threes that game. Way too many for us.

Good threes are good shots. Can’t run a completely different offense for 10 minutes that’s insane.

 

[Bubspub88]

Lots of bad from this one but at the end of the day it's a road win. First of all, getting Trimble back will be huge. Playing a small backcourt extended minutes (especially when neither are exactly defensive stoppers to begin with) is just asking for trouble. I will say I am disappointed in the lack of development from the bench - we will not make a deep tourny run with that absence of production.

I will attribute the end-of-game performance (too many brain farts) to tired legs and being worn down this late in the season. That has to change or they are one and done in the dance.

I saw Cormac's jump shot on my milk carton this morning, really hoping he can find his touch for the stretch run to take some pressure off RJ. I love the hustle but he is too experienced to make so many stupid fouls, especially with a key sub missing.

The silver lining is I think this was the first game UNC has won that was decided by under 6 points. They could have folded on the road but did not. The game at UVa is looking huge now, especially with the defense the cavs are playing now.

Absolutely cannot afford a let down with UVa and dook only having three conf losses.

 

[DSouthr]

That was a

61% career FT shooter, it's always been an issue. And his FT % has gotten progressively worse each season:

66% as a freshman
60% as a sophomore
55% as a junior

Makes no sense to be a knockdown 3-pt shooter and shoot so poorly from the line! I wonder if he's just overperforming his true talent level on threes this year.

Well clearly Ingram can shoot so why has that not been translating to the free throw line? I would jump to one assumption quickly, he is struggling to calm his mind down before taking the shot. At the free throw line a real key is just calming down, you are amped up from play, those in play jump shots you don't have time to think, you just shoot. But at the line the mental clock has to stop, mind has to calm, have to relax and take that solid stroke. Lot of guys are able to do this by taking deep breaths, Bacot went away from as much pre-shot stuff and just shoots free throws now, does not bounce the ball before he shoots it, RJ doesn't either.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

Good threes are good shots. Can’t run a completely different offense for 10 minutes that’s insane.

Half of them wasnt good threes is my point. With Cormac struggling to make threes, he should rely more on making or creating a shot inside the 3 point line. Yes, I know he made a couple of them, but that doesnt mean thats his best shot. If we are up 12 points, we need to attack the basket, not settle for threes.

We all know Hubert preaches about attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line.

With 11 mins to go in the game and up by 12, we attempted 7 threes and made 1.. that is not key. Sorry to anyone who thinks differently.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Half of them wasnt good threes is my point. With Cormac struggling to make threes, he should rely more on making or creating a shot inside the 3 point line. Yes, I know he made a couple of them, but that doesnt mean thats his best shot. If we are up 10-11 points, we need to attack the basket, not settle for threes.

We all know Hubert preaches about attacking the basket and getting to the free throw line.

Ryan, RJ, and Ingram all missed a wide ass open 3 in the final 6 minutes or so. Those were premium looks that weren't forced. I recall a couple 3s that RJ forced when he went into hero mode and forgot he had 4 teammates. I'll give you those. But generally, I thought the looks were terrific.

Just because we shot a 3, doesn't mean it was forced. Good offense, didn't finish. It's a make or miss game. We missed them and the score makes it look worse than the reality.

And if Ryan turns down a wide ass open corner 3... I highly doubt we'll get a better shot just because he drives and looks to shoot a 2.

 

[CanuckChuck]

Generational talent! #3C

Talk about SMDH.

 

[gunslingerdick]

SJung has really been killing it in these threads this year. Love the numbers he crunches and the insights and trends he offers in accompaniment. Probably my favorite poaster here, certainly so this year.

And no surprise, I agree with his most recent poast above. Cormac has to shoot the 3 when it presents itself. When you don’t, you miss the opportunity for a good look and allow the defense to recover. Also, even in misses, teammates are getting rebound position and as we know, sometimes our best offense is just getting it up on the board and letting Bacot and HI work. Plus, I’m personally not convinced Ryan is proficient in driving and finding the open man. Maybe. But he came to Carolina as a shooter. That was the role we defined for him and recruited him to fill. I’ll admit I’m as frustrated with his shooting woes as everyone else. But he needs to keep shooting good looks. We just have to hope he starts making them at a better clip.

With that said, I agree with the West Va Heel in that it would be better for us to drive when up 12 and put the onus on the officials to make foul calls. But when we drive and they rotate, the open shooter needs to be found and he needs to shoot the shot.

 

[ChiShankCity]

SJung has really been killing it in these threads this year. Love the numbers he crunches and the insights and trends he offers in accompaniment. Probably my favorite poaster here, certainly so this year.

And no surprise, I agree with his most recent poast above. Cormac has to shoot the 3 when it presents itself. When you don’t, you miss the opportunity for a good look and allow the defense to recover. Also, even in misses, teammates are getting rebound position and as we know, sometimes our best offense is just getting it up on the board and letting Bacot and HI work. Plus, I’m personally not convinced Ryan is proficient in driving and finding the open man. Maybe. But he came to Carolina as a shooter. That was the role we defined for him and recruited him to fill. I’ll admit I’m as frustrated with his shooting woes as everyone else. But he needs to keep shooting good looks. We just have to hope he starts making them at a better clip.

With that said, I agree with the West Va Heel in that it would be better for us to drive when up 12 and put the onus on the officials to make foul calls. But when we drive and they rotate, the open shooter needs to be found and he needs to shoot the shot.

Thanks! And that makes two in favor of me: You and me! haha

I think a lot of the late 3s criticism is playing the results. I highly doubt there would've been any criticism of the offense if Ingram, Ryan, and RJ made those open 3s.

And I'm definitely in favor of driving aggressively. These college refs universally suck. Put the pressure on them to blow the whistle. But while doing that, if an open 3 comes out of it, have the balls to shoot and make it. I'm sure many people here think I favor moving the basketball around the 3 and then just shooting a 3. I love getting the ball into the paint. I just think there are different ways of doing it. Conventionally, UNC had a dominant big man to take care of that. I think for this team, it's best for Cadeau to drive and get a piece of the paint.

The older I get, this is the randomness in sports that I try to get less emotional about. Good execution, an excellent shot, and it doesn't go in. Hopefully in March, when everything's on the line, Ryan, RJ, and Ingram make their clutch time 3s.

 

[gunslingerdick]

.

The older I get, this is the randomness in sports that I try to get less emotional about. Good execution, an excellent shot, and it doesn't go in. Hopefully in March, when everything's on the line, Ryan, RJ, and Ingram make their clutch time 3s.

Very true. I’m far less emotional about Carolina sports than I was in my younger days. And the only emotion I have with other teams in other sports is tied to how much I’ve wagered.

Hope to see the Heels execute and then let the chips fall where they may. It’s all you can do.

 

[alabamaheel]

Thanks! And that makes two in favor of me: You and me! haha

I think a lot of the late 3s criticism is playing the results. I highly doubt there would've been any criticism of the offense if Ingram, Ryan, and RJ made those open 3s.

And I'm definitely in favor of driving aggressively. These college refs universally suck. Put the pressure on them to blow the whistle. But while doing that, if an open 3 comes out of it, have the balls to shoot and make it. I'm sure many people here think I favor moving the basketball around the 3 and then just shooting a 3. I love getting the ball into the paint. I just think there are different ways of doing it. Conventionally, UNC had a dominant big man to take care of that. I think for this team, it's best for Cadeau to drive and get a piece of the paint.

The older I get, this is the randomness in sports that I try to get less emotional about. Good execution, an excellent shot, and it doesn't go in. Hopefully in March, when everything's on the line, Ryan, RJ, and Ingram make their clutch time 3s.

And like you’ve said in a few other posts this year, no one disagrees with those shots when they are falling. Just like a few lucky games we’ve seen when our opponents miss wide open shots against us. I laugh when everyone credits our defense to their misses. Are we better defensively this year? 💯, but have we been on the lucky side a few times on shooting percentage? 💯

 

[alabamaheel]

Very true. I’m far less emotional about Carolina sports than I was in my younger days. And the only emotion I have with other teams in other sports is tied to how much I’ve wagered.

Hope to see the Heels execute and then let the chips fall where they may. It’s all you can do.

I’m sitting in the same boat. May be the money, portal, and overall state of the sport. Idk. I’ve also realized there’s a whole lot more important things to get tore up about.

 

[al would]

Generational talent! #3C

View embedded media

Generational talent? Nowhere close yet and still makes some really bad plays. Have another gummy.

 

[gary-7]

Generational talent? Nowhere close yet and still makes some really bad plays. Have another gummy.

First, "yet" is not a measure of talent. This kid has a rare gift.

But second, other than a few dumb fouls and/or putting himself in position to get called for nonexistant ones, EC doesn't make "really bad plays"... especially compared to some other freshman PGs we've had here. There seem to be short memories on message boards, but as a frosh Ty drove Roy friggin crazy with his decision-making, but he turned out pretty doggone good.

And I could give you more examples.

Eliot can get a little careless (only very occasionally) but his basketball IQ is off the damn charts. Moreover, most fans don't get it but the kid moves entire defenses at will. The stuff he does ain't random, and it ain't normal. I suspect that if his outside shot hadn't gotten in his head, more folks might at least start to understand what we've got.

 

[IDUNK4HEELS]

To me the biggest thing that came out of this game was EFFORT all around

 

[TarHeelMark]

 

[alabamaheel]

First, "yet" is not a measure of talent. This kid has a rare gift.

But second, other than a few dumb fouls and/or putting himself in position to get called for nonexistant ones, EC doesn't make "really bad plays"... especially compared to some other freshman PGs we've had here. There seem to be short memories on message boards, but as a frosh Ty drove Roy friggin crazy with his decision-making, but he turned out pretty doggone good.

And I could give you more examples.

Eliot can get a little careless (only very occasionally) but his basketball IQ is off the damn charts. Moreover, most fans don't get it but the kid moves entire defenses at will. The stuff he does ain't random, and it ain't normal. I suspect that if his outside shot hadn't gotten in his head, more folks might at least start to understand what we've got.

lol Gary reading your last paragraph made me feel like I was watching one of those Dos Equis commercials. He’s good but dang it man. All in fun.

 

[gary-7]

lol Gary reading your last paragraph made me feel like I was watching one of those Dos Equis commercials. He’s good but dang it man. All in fun.

No worries --- even without the cool GIFs --- but, I've stood next to his team's bench and watched him make finds and looks that normal PGs just don't see (and he's not friggin looking where the rock is going most of the time), and I've watched D-1 coaches shaking their heads in disbelief.

Hell If nothing else I'd hope by now that folks here would know how tough my standards are for even calling someone a PG, and if I tell y'all that one is special, there's a good reason. There's sure as hell a reason opposing coaches have game-planned to get him off the floor. They know, too.

 

[dtodd4475]

Well clearly Ingram can shoot so why has that not been translating to the free throw line? I would jump to one assumption quickly, he is struggling to calm his mind down before taking the shot. At the free throw line a real key is just calming down, you are amped up from play, those in play jump shots you don't have time to think, you just shoot. But at the line the mental clock has to stop, mind has to calm, have to relax and take that solid stroke. Lot of guys are able to do this by taking deep breaths, Bacot went away from as much pre-shot stuff and just shoots free throws now, does not bounce the ball before he shoots it, RJ doesn't either.

He is a consistent 31% from three shooter up to this year. He is an adequate shooter, who is really shooting it well this year. If that is the new him great, but I would not say that is a strong suit for him. He has always struggled from the line.

His three is a set shot type, not a let me get loose and stroke it guy. His free throw routine is herky jerky not fluid. It is a tad different every time. I don't care if you dribble or not, get a rhythm and repeat, repeat, repeat!

Love what he brings, thrilled how he has knocked down 3balls this year, but shooting is not a strength for him in my opinion.

 

[dtodd4475]

No worries --- even without the cool GIFs --- but, I've stood next to his team's bench and watched him make finds and looks that normal PGs just don't see (and he's not friggin looking where the rock is going most of the time), and I've watched D-1 coaches shaking their heads in disbelief.

Hell If nothing else I'd hope by now that folks here would know how tough my standards are for even calling someone a PG, and if I tell y'all that one is special, there's a good reason. There's sure as hell a reason opposing coaches have game-planned to get him off the floor. They know, too.

I like your standards for point guards, and agree often. I also think you can get enamored with "your" guy, and become a bit blurred in vision, if not blinded to the deficiencies.

This one is a freshman with a HUGE ceiling, but a work in progress in my opinion. Absolutely a key to this years roster though. Keep growing young fella !!!! Be that "sophmore" by tourney time.

 

[gary-7]

I like your standards for point guards, and agree often. I also think you can get enamored with "your" guy, and become a bit blurred in vision, if not blinded to the deficiencies.

This one is a freshman with a HUGE ceiling, but a work in progress in my opinion. Absolutely a key to this years roster though. Keep growing young fella !!!! Be that "sophmore" by tourney time.

You really could've started and ended with your last paragraph. Of course he's a work in progress, as are all frosh, and I'm pretty sure nobody here has ever said otherwise. Nothing I wrote about him is blurred or blinded.

 

[ChiShankCity]

For everyone who loves our bench... I saw this online. Won't copy/paste since I think they work for a competing site.

In ACC play, here are the on-off court differentials:

Davis: +18.6
Cadeau: +15.8
Bacot: +8.1
Withers: +5.2
Ingram: +4.6
Ryan: +2.2
Trimble: +0.5

Washington: -7.6
Okonkwo: -12.9
Wojcik: -34.6
High: -67.5

Our top 7 is good. All of them are net positive. Despite Ryan's inefficiency, he's a net positive. Despite Withers' inconsistency, he's a net positive. The other 4 (who many claim we're 10-11 deep) have been really bad. This is a 7-8 deep team IMO and so far the numbers are indicating it. Once you get to Washington, Wojcik, High, and Okonkwo... You kind of hope that they only go -3 in the limited minutes they play, compared to a -6 or worse.

Food for thought... RJ's value vs Cadeau's value in ACC play.

Cadeau on the floor without RJ: -0.8 (49 minutes)
RJ on the floor without Cadeau: +6.1 (192 minutes)
RJ and Cadeau together: +25.7 (272 minutes)

 

[DSouthr]

LOL, so your last line simply says we are better with our starting back court on the floor? Shouldn't we assume that? Your ratings list seems to imply that we are a better teams with JWit on the floor than Ingram? I would suggest that if we went 10 deep on our roster, you could literally expect any of the guys on that list and plug them in with 4 starters and their on court +/- would rise. So run Ryan with non-starters and he is negative?

 

[gunslingerdick]

LOL, so your last line simply says we are better with our starting back court on the floor? Shouldn't we assume that? Your ratings list seems to imply that we are a better teams with JWit on the floor than Ingram? I would suggest that if we went 10 deep on our roster, you could literally expect any of the guys on that list and plug them in with 4 starters and their on court +/- would rise. So run Ryan with non-starters and he is negative?

That's the tale of any plus/minus inspection. It's not meant to tell you but so much. But it can give you some insight as to who is helping us be successful versus who is along for the ride.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Didn't need to settle for ANY 3 pointers when up by 11 or 12 points under 10 mins to go.. we had Ryan, davis, and Ingram all taking and missing threes during that.

We took like 31 threes that game. Way too many for us.

I'm definitely not used to us taking more shots from 3-pt range (31) than from 2-pt range (28), but I don't really mind it.

After all, every 3-pt shot we took returned 1.07 points; whereas 2-pt shots yielded 0.93 points.

Of course that doesn't factor in fouls and rebounds, but it still suggests that we aren't hurting ourselves by shooting more treys.

A quick scroll back through box scores shows that this is the ONLY time this season we have shot more 3s than 2s. It was close in the Tennessee game, but we are much more likely to shoot twice as many from closer in.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Fancy and time consuming way to get it absolutely wrong as usual! No matter how you parse it, we have 9 players who will likely see the floor every game (barring injury) and another who is gaining PT and will be used situationally! This is awesome and I pray it continues! The only reason peeps want to reduce who plays is because it is how most coaches do it! Every team in America is better when their starters play together so.....Sample size matters a lot in this so..... We are a deep and talented team and this will help carry us deep. Contracting the bench would be so stupid it approaches malfeasance.

Thank God Hubs is our coach and he actually trusts what he sees in practice!

 

[ChiShankCity]

The Cadeau/RJ on-off numbers are more for the people who think we've been a disaster when RJ has been on the floor without Cadeau. And Cadeau makes everything better regardless who he is on the floor. No shit we're better when our starting guards are playing together. We probably wouldn't be 19-5 if that weren't the case.... Good lord, some of you people....

Fancy and time consuming way to get it absolutely wrong as usual! No matter how you parse it, we have 9 players who will likely see the floor every game (barring injury) and another who is gaining PT and will be used situationally! This is awesome and I pray it continues! The only reason peeps want to reduce who plays is because it is how most coaches do it! Every team in America is better when their starters play together so.....Sample size matters a lot in this so..... We are a deep and talented team and this will help carry us deep. Contracting the bench would be so stupid it approaches malfeasance.

Thank God Hubs is our coach and he actually trusts what he sees in practice!

Well, I think we've already seen evidence of contracting the bench. The Duke game IMO is a good data point. It's a game that was competitive throughout. We didn't have any foul trouble or injury the entire game. And it was big game that translates to an NCAA Tournament game in terms of urgency and intensity. In that game, Hubert played 8 guys total and Wojcik was a healthy DNP.

And it's playing the results, but we played our best game that game. I'm not saying we played our best game because Wojcik was a healthy DNP. A bunch of factors went into playing our best game. But it was a game that we limited bench minutes and didn't affect the quality of our play.

I also disagree with the small sample size part. Especially for the starters plus Seth and Withers. Those guys have played enough minutes for those numbers to mean something more definitive than a small sample size argument. I guess you can argue Wojcik hasn't consistently played enough minutes, but what's the solution then? You want Wojcik to play more minutes? I certainly don't unless there's an injury.

In a small sample size, Wojcik is shooting 80% from the FT line... Would you trust that in late-game situations over Ingram? Maybe that's another opportunity for him.

 

[al would]

First, "yet" is not a measure of talent. This kid has a rare gift.

But second, other than a few dumb fouls and/or putting himself in position to get called for nonexistant ones, EC doesn't make "really bad plays"... especially compared to some other freshman PGs we've had here. There seem to be short memories on message boards, but as a frosh Ty drove Roy friggin crazy with his decision-making, but he turned out pretty doggone good.

And I could give you more examples.

Eliot can get a little careless (only very occasionally) but his basketball IQ is off the damn charts. Moreover, most fans don't get it but the kid moves entire defenses at will. The stuff he does ain't random, and it ain't normal. I suspect that if his outside shot hadn't gotten in his head, more folks might at least start to understand what we've got.

No shade on EC G ., and I see how he alone makes defenses react and move .. and the difference he makes to this years team when he's on the floor .. they suck without him there. Operative word in that post was "yet". As the Oracle said, "you have the gift kid but it just like you're waiting for something". I think he just needs a little more time and maybe some different players around him. But UNC goes home early NCAAT without him on the floor.