UNC receives NOA...
- Thread starter acarter0277
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Glenn really laid it out. The ncaa's fixation with the illusion that college sports is amateur, and focuses on education and not corporate sponsorship and money, is about to bite them in the ass... in the fan's favor.
Only thing I saw for men's basketball was a request of transcript from Steve Robinson on how the team monitors and manages academics. I may have missed something though.
Ill have to go back and actually read rather than browse when I get the time then.
"Specifically, individuals in the academic administration on campus, particularly in the college of arts and sciences, did not sufficiently monitor the AFRI/AFAM and ASPSA departments or provide appropriate supervision for these academic units and their staffs. The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that went unchecked for 18 years. This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, men's basketball and women's basketball. Although the general student body also had access to the anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses, student-athletes received preferential access to these anomalous courses, enrolled in these anomalous courses at a disproportionate rate to that of the general student body and received other impermissible benefits not available to the general student body in connection with these courses"
I fully expect UNC will fight this tooth and nail.
I fully expect UNC will fight this tooth and nail.
Not picking on you, but why would your source think that this was good for us and would piss the Moo crowd off? What is his reasoning?
Everything I'm reading implicates people that have already been fired. Roy is only mentioned once, and that was his interview with the NCAA in 2014. I just don't see at this moment how we are going to be hit that hard, or how anything we could be hit for is something we haven't already been hit for. Not saying we won't get hit, I just don't see how they can do anything more, but I've been wrong plenty of times in my life
Its not what some of the UNC insiders were telling us IMO . . there's enough in the NOA to create worry.
Unfortunately, our lawyers are going to be working more hours than I want them to . . let's hope they feel this is all manageable.
Unfortunately, our lawyers are going to be working more hours than I want them to . . let's hope they feel this is all manageable.
Just asked. Was told that nothing in the report concerning MBB or FB will be found to be an impermissible benefit after UNC responds. WBB is in trouble. The classes were available to ALL students. He/she feels the NCAA had to use this specific wording to appease the outside masses but that very wording is too broad to be defended as written. Said nothing in the NOA was unexpected.
As for MY opinion...I don't frickin' know what to believe.
The excerpt that heelbent posted above is the crux of it all IMO
It APPEARS that the NCAA IS really IS determining WHAT an ACADEMIC supervisory role of the university SHOULD be!
it is pointing at ACADEMIC supervisors and saying you did NOT do your jobs. How are THEY able to do that??? What LEGAL right does the NCAA have to determine whether academic deans etc are doing or NOT doing their Jobs??? My impression based on EVERYTHING they have ever said is that is precisely what they do NOT do and is beyond their scope.
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Our legal team is gonna hone in on that for sure IMO
It APPEARS that the NCAA IS really IS determining WHAT an ACADEMIC supervisory role of the university SHOULD be!
it is pointing at ACADEMIC supervisors and saying you did NOT do your jobs. How are THEY able to do that??? What LEGAL right does the NCAA have to determine whether academic deans etc are doing or NOT doing their Jobs??? My impression based on EVERYTHING they have ever said is that is precisely what they do NOT do and is beyond their scope.
.
Our legal team is gonna hone in on that for sure IMO
That sounds about right HB. I kinda figured women's basketball would get hammered, but no one else would be affected much. Since most, if not ALL, who were involved in this have been fired, graduated or otherwise moved on then what else can be done? Of course this IS the NCAA we are talking about. If I had to guess, women's basketball will get nailed pretty good. Football has already been hit so I don't think they will do anything else to them and IF anything is done to the men's basketball team I suspect it will be little more than a loss of a scholarship or two and even that might be a stretch.
Nothing shocking is in the NOA. Women's basketball will get hit the hardest. On the Men's basketball side, no wins will be vacated, no titles will come down & no post season ban. At the worst & I even doubt this, maybe a loss of scholarships for a few years.
Let's just get this mess over with & behind us.
Let's just get this mess over with & behind us.
I think the NOA is really a PR move by the NCAA and the bite will come down on women's bball more so than any other program at UNC. There was obviously request made for special consideration (the young lady was a senior and to ensure graduation a grade level was specified.... dumb move).
If and when people will look at this objectively, we are in the realm of slide courses that students naturally seek out when trying to boast a gpa. Quite honestly, I find it incredibly stupid anyone would believe an academic adviser would advise anyone (student or student athlete to load up on a semester of tough course work. Is it not their job to help students (athlete's included) balance out course selections, etc.
If and when people will look at this objectively, we are in the realm of slide courses that students naturally seek out when trying to boast a gpa. Quite honestly, I find it incredibly stupid anyone would believe an academic adviser would advise anyone (student or student athlete to load up on a semester of tough course work. Is it not their job to help students (athlete's included) balance out course selections, etc.
The more you actually think about these "allegations" and that is all they are right now...the more IMO this is the NCAA throwing all they can against the wall an d seeing what sticks.
I repeat what I said awhile ago..... the NCAA isquestioning the supervision of an ACADEMIC dept Not an athletic dept...l look to precedent here .... when has..the NCAA ever done this???What is THEIR expertise in departmental evaluation at other schools??
I would pound this until the cows come home
They seem to have reached a long way here JMHO
I repeat what I said awhile ago..... the NCAA isquestioning the supervision of an ACADEMIC dept Not an athletic dept...l look to precedent here .... when has..the NCAA ever done this???What is THEIR expertise in departmental evaluation at other schools??
I would pound this until the cows come home
They seem to have reached a long way here JMHO
Our boy Patrick is a better lawyer than those at the NCAA, let him do his thing, as an example one "allegation" is simply a time frame, 2002 to 20011...woohoo
Another actually goes all the way back to the LOIC.
Let the crack ride wail. Even with the NOA in front of them, they will continue to muck it up...
Another actually goes all the way back to the LOIC.
Let the crack ride wail. Even with the NOA in front of them, they will continue to muck it up...
The allegations that people didn't cooperate is BS. UNC cooperated more than they should have. SO what if individuals do not cooperate. They were fired, why should they. Lance Thomas didn't cooperate, but NCAA did nothing about that. The impermissible benefits is tricky. Student athletes and every college get dibs on classes. Always have. I think if UNC chooses to fight this, they will ultimately win a lot of the battle. But they have to choose to fight it. I do fear the NCAA is going to hammer the university just to make a point and give in to the public perception.
Well, the wuffies do know the term 'hammered' pretty well . . . wasn't TCU the latest . . ?
There are no allegations against the fb or mens bball programs. There is no allegation that anyone associated with those programs committed an ncaa infraction. I dont see how they then could penalize (post season ban etc) any program that they themselves have cleared!
Please tell me how in hades UNC gets hammered for particular witnesses being called and asked to tesify, each refusing...one three times, another five times, and each one thoroughly discredited. Wainstein called them to testify and nothing. The NCAA asked them and nothing.
A guy over at CBS has a good piece, lays out some of the time lines and explains some of this LOIC was years ago and under different NCAA rules. Not the newer rules, the old ones. UNC does not get hammered in this instance.
If you're an ncaa school, that enjoys the benefits, in any way, of the system, the way it is now, then you want this to be a faint memory as soon as possible. If you're the ncaa, you want that even more.
[B said:"BillyL, post: 98886, member: 1880"]Its not what some of the UNC insiders were telling us IMO . . there's enough in the NOA to create worry."[/B]
Say what??I've been saying "worry" for several months. It's gonna hurt.
The NCAA seems to be talking out of both sides of their collective mouths. Sorta like he who will not be named who repeatedly said he didn't have the executive power to grant amnesty and is now trying to do just that. Methinks the NCAA is overstepping their purview.
So getting kids into a class that is full is an "extra benefit"
Really??? They are hanging a lot of their hat on that "impermissible benefit"
Really??? They are hanging a lot of their hat on that "impermissible benefit"
Bylaw 16, which is what the NCAA says UNC violated...
"Allegations. 1. [NCAA Division I Manual Bylaw 16.11.2.1 (2002-03 through 2010-11)]"
From the NCAA's own manual...
"For violations of Bylaw 16 in which there is no monetary value to the extra benefit, violations shall be considered institutional violations... however such violations shall not affect the student-athlete's eligibility"
Well, well, well...
"Allegations. 1. [NCAA Division I Manual Bylaw 16.11.2.1 (2002-03 through 2010-11)]"
From the NCAA's own manual...
"For violations of Bylaw 16 in which there is no monetary value to the extra benefit, violations shall be considered institutional violations... however such violations shall not affect the student-athlete's eligibility"
Well, well, well...
Bleed . .
I'm talking of the rumors of what was inside the NOA since we've been in possession of it since 5/22/15 and what the UNC Insiders have offered since that date.
Note ~ Andrew Jones is sticking by his prediction that nothing will happen to Mens BBall.
I'm talking of the rumors of what was inside the NOA since we've been in possession of it since 5/22/15 and what the UNC Insiders have offered since that date.
Note ~ Andrew Jones is sticking by his prediction that nothing will happen to Mens BBall.
Doesn't look as bad as it could have been.
The LOIC hurts and that is where possible penalties will come from. I am not prepared to say the men's basketball is in the clear because you never know when it comes to the COI...but no specific allegations against the program is good news. Roy Williams appears to be safe. Looks like the women's basketball program is in trouble and one has to wonder if Hatchell's time as coach is over. Hate to see her go out like this.
Should be interesting to see what Carolina's response is and if the impermissible benefits stick. Still worried about the LOIC, but other then that, not the disaster many Carolina haters wanted.
The LOIC hurts and that is where possible penalties will come from. I am not prepared to say the men's basketball is in the clear because you never know when it comes to the COI...but no specific allegations against the program is good news. Roy Williams appears to be safe. Looks like the women's basketball program is in trouble and one has to wonder if Hatchell's time as coach is over. Hate to see her go out like this.
Should be interesting to see what Carolina's response is and if the impermissible benefits stick. Still worried about the LOIC, but other then that, not the disaster many Carolina haters wanted.
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