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WTF? Theo...

DSouthr said:
gary, as I have shared all summer, I think Nate starts the season as our starting 2, Roy loves his seniors does he not? But as I have as well shared, I believe kenny will either earn that starter spot or at very least get starter minutes at the 2. I know, que up the kenny was 1 for 13 from trey last season so he can't shoot and I have to que up Roy's words when asked about kenny shooting when he reminded us that at one point Marcus was 2 for 24 or so last season but no one is suggesting Marcus couldn't shoot. Roy shared that Hubert Davis was 3 for 18 on his treys as a freshman yet Hubert was one of the best shooters ever. Not to mention that Roy spoke several times last season about how good a shooter kenny was in practice. Point being, Kenny can shoot. LOL
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I believe Hubert said he was 4/13 but still, point taken, and yeah, KW will be fine shooting.

Ironically last season IC and some reporters were assuming Theo was gonna start before Marcus went down but that was simply not true. JB and Marcus were playing white team together in the practices right before that when they divided up that way. This time however I was told the assumptions are correct, that Theo WAS in fact set to start.
 
Sophiakarly said:
Really sorry to hear that guys ! I was feeling he was going to be an extremely important cog for you guys this year , Hoping for a speedy recovery,
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Hi Sophiakarly, THANKS.

!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
gary-7 said:
Seriously, dude. Put all those past numbers aside. KW did NOT have much PT last season.
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Sure, I will ignore all evidence such as stats from a year, his scrimmage, and his 3pt shootout performance to let you try and state it is indisputable he would make our team shoot higher from 3.
 
imajericho said:
Sure, I will ignore all evidence such as stats from a year, his scrimmage, and his 3pt shootout performance to let you try and state it is indisputable he would make our team shoot higher from 3.
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Very little evidence to even talk about. C'mon man.
 
gary-7 said:
Very little evidence to even talk about. C'mon man.
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And, all evidence we have so far, whether little or not, is that Williams cannot shoot when their is pressure on him. There has been players out there who were great practice players but could not do the same in games.

It is on Kenny Williams to prove otherwise. Until he does, saying it is indisputable he at the 2 starting would provide better 3 point percentage is just unsupported by evidence. Hell, under your argument, maybe if Pinson played more he woulda shot better too!
 
I hope KW lights it up this year and becomes lethal from the perimeter but until I see him do it in games, it's all hypothetical. Some players are practice all-Americans and others are gamers. I hope KW ends up being the latter because now we are gonna need him to step up more than ever.
 
Basic Qualifications
To qualify for a medical redshirt, a basketball player must sustain an “incapacitating injury or illness.” The injury or illness does not have to be related to basketball, but must take place after the first day of classes in the athlete’s senior year of high school. To gain a medical redshirt for a specific season, the athlete’s illness or injury must occur before the first game of the second half of the team’s schedule. If the team plays an odd number of games, the exact midseason contest is considered part of the second half. For example, if a basketball team plays 25 games, the injury or illness must occur before the start of the team’s 13th game. Games played in postseason tournaments, such as a conference tournament or the NCAA or NIT tournaments, count among the team’s total games played.

Games Played
To gain a medical redshirt, the athlete cannot compete in more than 30 percent of her team’s games within a season, not counting contests officially designated as scrimmages or exhibition games. When such computations are made, fractions are rounded up. For example, if a team plays 27 games, the exact 30 percent mark is 8.1. For the purposes of medical redshirt eligibility, therefore, the player may compete in nine games and still be eligible for a medical redshirt.

So, if we played like 40 games en route to a national championship, Theo could play in 12 games and STILL get the medical redshirt. (As he did not play in more than 30% of the games as of rounding). If we had 41 games (not sure if possible), he could play in 13 games and still get a medical redshirt.
 
imajericho said:
And, all evidence we have so far, whether little or not, is that Williams cannot shoot when their is pressure on him. There has been players out there who were great practice players but could not do the same in games.

It is on Kenny Williams to prove otherwise. Until he does, saying it is indisputable he at the 2 starting would provide better 3 point percentage is just unsupported by evidence. Hell, under your argument, maybe if Pinson played more he woulda shot better too!
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Not at all. I never said anything was indisputable and I can't understand why stuff degenerates into these silly rants, Theo fixed his shooting motion and we were about to see that come to fruition with a better pct this season. In fact by YOUR logic Theo would have surely led the team this season since he was 100% in the scrimmage. Small sample spaces are not valid indicators.

As you know there were some misguided people who doubted JB because his freshman stat lines were modest. All it took was a learned eye to understand the folly of that thinking. Same for Kenny. KW can play and can shoot the rock.
 
imajericho said:
Kenny Williams 1 - 13
Theo Pinson 7 - 26

I can't take it. Steat are you even serious?

"He still needed to do it in actual games and he did not do it with a lot of playing time last year"

Kenny Williams as our 2 is indisputable that we would be a better 3% shooting team.

I can't...really dude?

Nothing has shown Kenny Williams can outshoot Pinson in game situations. Kenny Williams shot horrible in the 3 point contest, as well. And, I think he missed all 3 point attempts in the scrimmage (I think he took 1 and missed - wide open if I remember correctly).
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Note that I said either Williams or Robinson. Statistics do not always tell the story. Perhaps with 26+ three point shots last year Williams would have been right there or better than Pinson or better. Shooting 25% from the 3-point line (Pinson last year) is terrible for your starting 2-guard. Yes, he problably would have done better this year. If Kenny would have played more last year he probably would have shot a better percentage than Pinson.
 
imajericho said:
Sure, I will ignore all evidence such as stats from a year, his scrimmage, and his 3pt shootout performance to let you try and state it is indisputable he would make our team shoot higher from 3.
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So in all honesty you think he will shoot in the 7-10% range from 3? Really?
 
Theo was not a starter last year. Making up Theo's 4.5 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.9 apg will fall on other shoulders.

The concern is making up Paige's 12.6 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.8 apg, 87% FTS, and 38% 3PTS. Robinson and Williams can make this up.
 
Archer2 said:
The door is wide open for Nate/Brandon/7th. While Nate may start initially, Brandon will supplant him by ACC time.
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There's a solid prediction.

I assume DSouthr would pick Kenny.

I'm going with 7th.

It isn't an easy pick. Kenny has the year of experience and that pretty, high release on his shot. Plus he showed some decent D in his limited minutes last year.

Brandon looked good in the scrimmage and comes closest to replacing Theo's length. Plus a promising shot that could be exactly what we need.

But I like Seventh's overall athleticism and aggression. That's a big part of what Theo brings. He doesn't have Theo's length but he's supposed to be a good defender and he can attack the basket.

Here's what I would try early in the season if I were Roy - starters and 1st sub:

Joel - 7th - Stilman
Nate - Kenny - (7th)
Justin - Brandon - Shea
Isaiah - Luke
Kennedy - Tony

I won't be surprised if Kanley Coker and Aaron Rohlman earn some good minutes. It's happened before. Rohlman is 6'6 210 and a junior. If Brandon, Luke or Shea aren't ready to back up Justin, maybe he's what we need.
 
Butterbutt44 said:
I really am not sure what some people are watching, but Im guessing its not the same sport as I am because Theo is so clearly the starting 2 guard for this team its almost like saying Joel wouldnt start at PG. Of course Im not saying hed play ALL his minutes at the 2, but hed certainly spend most his time there. Anyways you can read here where it says he was expected to be in unc's starting backcourt...

http://www.scout.com/college/north-carolina/story/1719699-pinson-out-indefinitely
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Lol. I said in my poast that he was probably the best 2 guard we had, so I think it's clear we're watching the same sport. My issue was that Roy has shown through past lineup decisions that Nate starting the year at the 2 was not only a possibility, but in my opinion a probable result.

And as Dave pointed out, Roy seemed to think differently than the author of the article you linked.
 
Look, we're all a little upset about yet another UNC injury. No need to cannibalize here. At this point, whether Theo would have started at the two is completely irrelevant, not to mention purely conjectural. Let try to concentrate on the players we do have, shall we? Because that's what the team and Roy must do.
 
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I really like Britt shooting the ball. I think he can really help us there. He can't replace all the other stuff Theo did though. It will be interesting to see what Roy does. We just lose so much versatility in our lineup now.
 
What Would Jesus Do? said:
There's a solid prediction.

I assume DSouthr would pick Kenny.

I'm going with 7th.

It isn't an easy pick. Kenny has the year of experience and that pretty, high release on his shot. Plus he showed some decent D in his limited minutes last year.

Brandon looked good in the scrimmage and comes closest to replacing Theo's length. Plus a promising shot that could be exactly what we need.

But I like Seventh's overall athleticism and aggression. That's a big part of what Theo brings. He doesn't have Theo's length but he's supposed to be a good defender and he can attack the basket.

Here's what I would try early in the season if I were Roy - starters and 1st sub:

Joel - 7th - Stilman
Nate - Kenny - (7th)
Justin - Brandon - Shea
Isaiah - Luke
Kennedy - Tony

I won't be surprised if Kanley Coker and Aaron Rohlman earn some good minutes. It's happened before. Rohlman is 6'6 210 and a junior. If Brandon, Luke or Shea aren't ready to back up Justin, maybe he's what we need.
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Fair look, yeah I would go with Kenny for much the reason you laid out, a year of experience but his ability to defend as a 2 was the main factor that had me wanting him to start well before now. But no, I don't see it as a slam dunk because 7th has the tools and has the attitude, IMO has more upside but I don't think he is as ready as kenny is, we will just have to see.

And as I have shared, I do think Roy starts with nate at the 2, heck he could stay with nate at the 2 all year as the starter. For me what is more important is who gets the minutes and I do think kenny will earn starter minutes, even if the senior begins the games.

But there is another factor that may play in to 7th getting a lot of PT at the 2. We all know that Roy prefers 2 PGs on the floor together, now with Joel and nate he can have that but nate is a senior, and so is Stillman, Joel could be gone after this season. That means it would be smart to prep another PG to play in the event Joel does leave. We have jalek coming in for sure but you need a back up for jalek, if Joel leaves and Roy prefers 2 PGs on the floor together. The natural fit for that is 7th, give him time to learn playing beside either joel or 7th now to get him ready for a larger role the season after? So that could factor in to who plays the 2 and the minutes on the court.

1 other 7th consideration, with Theo out, I would suggest Theo was/will be our most athletic player. But while Theo is out that most athletic tag could well belong to 7th Woods. When I consider our 2 guards, I would suggest the weakest jump shooting 2 could be 7th, his game has been more as a slasher, finisher, distributor. He is a decent jump shooter that I think can become a better shooter but I would call him more of a streaky shooter right now. he is no where as long as Theo but he does have some of the same traits. Loves to defend, wants to take the opponents best scorer. 7th could be an interesting pick to back up Justin?
 
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imajericho said:
And, all evidence we have so far, whether little or not, is that Williams cannot shoot when their is pressure on him. There has been players out there who were great practice players but could not do the same in games.

It is on Kenny Williams to prove otherwise. Until he does, saying it is indisputable he at the 2 starting would provide better 3 point percentage is just unsupported by evidence. Hell, under your argument, maybe if Pinson played more he woulda shot better too!
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Actually the 1 trey kenny did hit was a big one in the post season so ALL the evidence does not support he can't shoot under pressure unless you consider a post season game for a freshman to be no pressure?

For me it is kind of simple, watch a kid shoot, watch his shooting form and stroke, that don't lie. The ball does not always go in for a shooter but when the form is there it will begin to drop at some point. kenny has solid shooting form, BRob does to, up to now in real games Theo had not shown solid or repeatable form in his shooting.

Kenny didn't get a lot of PT, he came off the bench cold and knew he had to not make mistakes or he would get pulled, that is what happens when you have marcus and a very experienced nate ahead of you. All kenny needs to show folks what he can do is the PT and know he has Roy's confidence, to know that it is ok to miss a good shot.

Fortunately, we are just around the corner from being able to move from speculation to knowing. I really do not think it is fair to judge the kid based on such a small sample size, I don't think wanting folks to give the kid a chance to show what he can do is asking to much. I think many will be surprised and I think folks wil see why I am so high on the kid.
 
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mikeirbyusa said:
Not seen it here but Nate plays some wicked D and that may decide it.
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True. However, Nate's lack of size and athleticism concerns me when he has to guard bigger 2's. Also, Nate has to get more consistent with his shot. Some games last year he was on and other games he was badly off. Theo had the combination of size and athleticism that we cannot replace with someone on the current roster.
 
I did read somewhere that Kanler Coker the ex-QB can really shoot , but he gave up FB because of an injury so that remains to be seen. I also could not pick him out of a police lineup.
 
DSouthr said:
gary, as I have shared all summer, I think Nate starts the season as our starting 2, Roy loves his seniors does he not? But as I have as well shared, I believe kenny will either earn that starter spot or at very least get starter minutes at the 2. I know, que up the kenny was 1 for 13 from trey last season so he can't shoot and I have to que up Roy's words when asked about kenny shooting when he reminded us that at one point Marcus was 2 for 24 or so last season but no one is suggesting Marcus couldn't shoot. Roy shared that Hubert Davis was 3 for 18 on his treys as a freshman yet Hubert was one of the best shooters ever. Not to mention that Roy spoke several times last season about how good a shooter kenny was in practice. Point being, Kenny can shoot. LOL
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We don't agree on much but we're on the same page here. Kenny can shoot his butt off and I also wouldn't be surprised at all if he's getting major minutes by the end of this season.
 
heels05champs said:
True. However, Nate's lack of size and athleticism concerns me when he has to guard bigger 2's. Also, Nate has to get more consistent with his shot. Some games last year he was on and other games he was badly off. Theo had the combination of size and athleticism that we cannot replace with someone on the current roster.
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Think you selling Nate short.
 
dadika13 said:
We don't agree on much but we're on the same page here. Kenny can shoot his butt off and I also wouldn't be surprised at all if he's getting major minutes by the end of this season.
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Dadika13 I'm not arguing but how do you know that Kenny can shoot his butt off? Just curious.
 
alabamaheel said:
Dadika13 I'm not arguing but how do you know that Kenny can shoot his butt off? Just curious.
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HS stats for one. Practice stats for two. That form for three. He was a frosh last year and struggled. Not the first, nor the last. Bottom line is once he gets more comfortable at this level, those shots will go in.
 
I definitely think Nate will get first crack at the starting 2 spot. He looked very steady in the scrimmage and of course his experience will help. I hope Williams can bring that sweet stroke into games because now more than ever we will need it.
 
I think what's clear is that every candidate has good points as well as a flaw or 2. No one is the perfect starter for us at SG or to fill Theo's minutes.

But we have the flexibility to cover the challenges.

I think that Nate is the logical choice. But suppose he's defending a guy who is just too strong for him. Put in 7th. Or suppose he's defending a guy who is too tall for him. Put in Kenny or Brandon.

When Joel and Nate are in together, you divide up the defensive responsibilities the same way. Give Joel the stronger guard to defend, give Nate the quicker guard to defend.

So I think the default option is Nate, but Roy can pick one of the others depending on the opposing lineup or in-game play.
 
DSouthr said:
But there is another factor that may play in to 7th getting a lot of PT at the 2. We all know that Roy prefers 2 PGs on the floor together, now with Joel and nate he can have that but nate is a senior, and so is Stillman, Joel could be gone after this season. That means it would be smart to prep another PG to play in the event Joel does leave. We have jalek coming in for sure but you need a back up for jalek, if Joel leaves and Roy prefers 2 PGs on the floor together. The natural fit for that is 7th, give him time to learn playing beside either joel or 7th now to get him ready for a larger role the season after? So that could factor in to who plays the 2 and the minutes on the court.
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Excellent point.
 
Nate's defense is improved but certainly not what I would call "wicked" Mike. And while I do think he's the natural default SG after Theo's injury, I'll be surprised if it turns out to be our optimal lineup. Now if he shoots 38-40% from 3-pt range, perhaps. I just can't help but think his starting role will be usurped as the season progresses.

What concerns me most about losing Theo is that he's one of our better defenders, able to defend multiple positions. It also kills our small ball lineup where he slid down to PF and that was one of our most effective lineups late last season.
 
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