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Yet another fatal case of police brutality

uncboy10

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Apr 14, 2008
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Amazing how a man who already had his hands pinned behind his back with another officer searching him managed to threaten the lives of these officers to the point where they had to shoot him nearly a half dozen times from point blank range. In the head from the looks of the video. Not only can you not justify shooting this man in the first place, you can't even come close to justifying this kind of execution. This is sick. You don't put that many rounds into another human being unless you are just absolutely itching for the opportunity. And before you convince yourself that he was "resisting" or that he was really some violent thug, just ask yourself how this situation would have ended in the US.



Ya know it's funny, after a mass shooting we hear that if more people carried guns then everything would be safer. I guess conservatives should be more clear, what they really mean is that more WHITE people should carry guns. Because if a black guy is pinned down by two cops, and found to be in possession of a gun then its totally acceptable to kill him. And of course it doesn't even matter whether or not they had probable cause to be searching him or ordering him to get on the ground. Because they're cops. They can tell whoever they want to get on the ground, whenever they want. They don't need probably cause. Much less a warrant. Because they're cops. They're the good guys. They're looking out for us, making sure that dangerous criminals like this guy can't get their cd's into the hands of your children.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I haven't read into this situation too much, and that it seems impossible for anyone to really figure out what happened given all the he said she said going on right now.

I hate the egos of cops as much as the next guy (hell, probably more than the next guy). I think some/many of them go well beyond their jurisdiction frequently. Who knows if they had probable cause to tackle this guy - I'll even go as far to assume that they were overstepping their bounds and didn't have probable cause for it. Even so, if you have a firearm on you and the cops tell you not to move - you damn well better not move. Now again, I have no idea if this guy did reach for his gun or not - but if he did, I have no problem with the cop shooting him, the cop needs to decide if he's gonna shoot or be shot. If he didn't make a move for the gun and the cops are using this as an excuse to shoot him, then they should go to jail for murder.

What I've heard indicates that the guy was making a move for his gun (granted that could be police-biased who knows). If I were in that situation where I had my gun pointed at another guy that I knew had a gun on him, and that guy made anything resembling a motion towards his gun.... I'd double tap him and wouldn't even think twice about it.
 
Yep, agreed with Hark. I know uncboy is trying to stir the pot here but I've been on record on this board of being fairly anti-police. I think way too big of a chunk of cops are power-hungry a-holes who get off on bullying people (regardless of race). But yes, some cops are most likely racist because, again, cops are not paid well at all. You're getting lower rungs of society who decide to be cops. You're getting guys who amounted to nothing after high school in a lot of cases.

This isn't about guns. This is about police wages. Figure out a way to improve cops' salaries and the caliber of cops will improve simply do to the free market. Why do you think so many people try their hardest to be pro athletes? Because of the huge financial potential if you can succeed in that career path. Same thing would happen for cops (and teachers while we're at it).
 
I know uncboy is trying to stir the pot here .

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Yep, agreed with Hark. I know uncboy is trying to stir the pot here but I've been on record on this board of being fairly anti-police. I think way too big of a chunk of cops are power-hungry a-holes who get off on bullying people (regardless of race). But yes, some cops are most likely racist because, again, cops are not paid well at all. You're getting lower rungs of society who decide to be cops. You're getting guys who amounted to nothing after high school in a lot of cases.

This isn't about guns. This is about police wages. Figure out a way to improve cops' salaries and the caliber of cops will improve simply do to the free market. Why do you think so many people try their hardest to be pro athletes? Because of the huge financial potential if you can succeed in that career path. Same thing would happen for cops (and teachers while we're at it).

I would certainly agree that's a huge part of the problem. And probably the easiest aspect of the problem to address.

However we also need to remember the Stanford Prison Experiment. Exploiting power is just a fundamental part of human psychology. That's why so few people have the disposition, much less education necessary to wield power without abusing it.. Yet we have people still arguing that we don't need body cameras or any other system of checks and balances for police officers. Because cops are always the good guys and its only thugs that get shot by them.

To be clear this isn't about stirring the pot. It's about pointing out that this is very much a real issue. White guys get shot and get their rights trampled on every single day too. The issue itself isn't really about race. Its about authority. But race absolutely plays a factor with the public when they make up their minds about whether or not the shooting was justified. Police officers are claiming he had a gun. Are any of us really stupid enough to just take their word for it at this point?

There were enough shots fired for 2 or 3 double taps. If he had shot him once or even twice and then immediately proceeded to disarm him, subdue him, then provide medical treatment it would be one thing. But all too often in these cases we hear about some guy getting shot half a dozen or a dozen times from point blank range and then we argue whether or not the officer's life was in danger. It doesn't matter if the guy had a gun and was reaching for it. The cop should still try to do everything in his power to avoid killing the suspect unless absolutely necessary. But when a guy pops off 6 rounds from two feet away into some guy its pretty clear that he's either a psychopath or at the very least his Adrenalin got the best of him.

And also it's funny to me that you always hear the people say things like "well if he had just got on the ground he'd still be alive" but you never hear anybody say "well if those cops had just gone about their business looking for actual criminals instead of harassing and then tackling this guy when he didn't comply, he'd still be alive." Those officers instigated that altercation. We shouldn't expect citizens to just roll over whenever cops start abusing their power. And we certainly shouldn't defend the cops who use lethal force against the people who stand up to them. Who's to say that guy didn't have a concealed carry permit? Isn't the entire point of the second amendment to defend yourself from a tyrannical government? That would obviously mean as an extension to defend yourself from the officers deputized by said government. Which means cops. Doesn't sound as sexy when it's not an abstract idea painted on a sign at a tea party rally.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I haven't read into this situation too much, and that it seems impossible for anyone to really figure out what happened given all the he said she said going on right now.

I hate the egos of cops as much as the next guy (hell, probably more than the next guy). I think some/many of them go well beyond their jurisdiction frequently. Who knows if they had probable cause to tackle this guy - I'll even go as far to assume that they were overstepping their bounds and didn't have probable cause for it. Even so, if you have a firearm on you and the cops tell you not to move - you damn well better not move. Now again, I have no idea if this guy did reach for his gun or not - but if he did, I have no problem with the cop shooting him, the cop needs to decide if he's gonna shoot or be shot. If he didn't make a move for the gun and the cops are using this as an excuse to shoot him, then they should go to jail for murder.

What I've heard indicates that the guy was making a move for his gun (granted that could be police-biased who knows). If I were in that situation where I had my gun pointed at another guy that I knew had a gun on him, and that guy made anything resembling a motion towards his gun.... I'd double tap him and wouldn't even think twice about it.

But you know, the way they had him pinned down, I doubt the dude could have even reached for his gun well enough to actually get it. They should have just shot him in the hand or something. It appears (though difficult to see clearly) they shot him in the chest area and honestly, that seemed very, very unnecessary to me. Wouldn't simply tazing him at that point have worked as well? I understand some cops are in very dangerous situations and have no other choice but the ones I have seen like this lately, just don't seem to warrant death on the person. You can disable someone just as easy in some of these situations.

We had a case last summer near my hometown where a young kid got shot because the cop claimed he was trying to run him over and clearly that was not the case. Now that young man who should be sitting his little ass in jail, is dead. I think things are just getting way out of hand and cops are taking the easy way out sometimes. I know they have a hard job but they signed up for it. I think some retraining needs to be done. When I was young the things cops did would make you just sick. They do things they should NOT do, I know from personal experiences.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I haven't read into this situation too much, and that it seems impossible for anyone to really figure out what happened given all the he said she said going on right now.

I hate the egos of cops as much as the next guy (hell, probably more than the next guy). I think some/many of them go well beyond their jurisdiction frequently. Who knows if they had probable cause to tackle this guy - I'll even go as far to assume that they were overstepping their bounds and didn't have probable cause for it. Even so, if you have a firearm on you and the cops tell you not to move - you damn well better not move. Now again, I have no idea if this guy did reach for his gun or not - but if he did, I have no problem with the cop shooting him, the cop needs to decide if he's gonna shoot or be shot. If he didn't make a move for the gun and the cops are using this as an excuse to shoot him, then they should go to jail for murder.

What I've heard indicates that the guy was making a move for his gun (granted that could be police-biased who knows). If I were in that situation where I had my gun pointed at another guy that I knew had a gun on him, and that guy made anything resembling a motion towards his gun.... I'd double tap him and wouldn't even think twice about it.

I don't really disagree with anything you said here. The issue is, who gets the benefit of the doubt? And who gets the blame? If the cops didn't have probable cause to tackle him then he would've been well within his rights to use lethal force to defend himself if his life is in danger. At that moment the police officers are breaking the law and they are now the criminals. From that moment on it doesn't matter if he has a gun or not. Or if he reaches for it. The police officers were not operating withing the confines of the law and therefore would not be afforded the normal protection of their status as a police officer. But obviously that isn't how things ever play out. That's why you get the riots. Because their is almost never any accountability for the officers. At worse he'll probably be looking at a suspension without pay. When if the tables had been turned the victim would've gotten life without parole for murdering a cop.
 
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But you know, the way they had him pinned down, I doubt the dude could have even reached for his gun well enough to actually get it. They should have just shot him in the hand or something. It appears (though difficult to see clearly) they shot him in the chest area and honestly, that seemed very, very unnecessary to me. Wouldn't simply tazing him at that point have worked as well? I understand some cops are in very dangerous situations and have no other choice but the ones I have seen like this lately, just don't seem to warrant death on the person. You can disable someone just as easy in some of these situations.

We had a case last summer near my hometown where a young kid got shot because the cop claimed he was trying to run him over and clearly that was not the case. Now that young man who should be sitting his little ass in jail, is dead. I think things are just getting way out of hand and cops are taking the easy way out sometimes. I know they have a hard job but they signed up for it. I think some retraining needs to be done. When I was young the things cops did would make you just sick. They do things they should NOT do, I know from personal experiences.

Zachary Hammond. That case was disgusting. The cop was running next to the car with one arm in the window as he tried to drive away then the cop shoots him and claimed his life was in danger. Dash cam evidence clearly showed this to be the case yet the guy is back out on patrol in no time. That's the part that really pisses me off.
 
Not gonna respond to every post in this thread, but the "shoot to kill" mantra is something I've always had issue with. Cops need to be taught to maim when the situation allows it, rather than kill. Shoot someone in the legs and cripple them, then overpower them. Don't shoot them 12 times in the chest.
 
But you know, the way they had him pinned down, I doubt the dude could have even reached for his gun well enough to actually get it. They should have just shot him in the hand or something. It appears (though difficult to see clearly) they shot him in the chest area and honestly, that seemed very, very unnecessary to me. Wouldn't simply tazing him at that point have worked as well? I understand some cops are in very dangerous situations and have no other choice but the ones I have seen like this lately, just don't seem to warrant death on the person. You can disable someone just as easy in some of these situations.

We had a case last summer near my hometown where a young kid got shot because the cop claimed he was trying to run him over and clearly that was not the case. Now that young man who should be sitting his little ass in jail, is dead. I think things are just getting way out of hand and cops are taking the easy way out sometimes. I know they have a hard job but they signed up for it. I think some retraining needs to be done. When I was young the things cops did would make you just sick. They do things they should NOT do, I know from personal experiences.

I see what you're saying, but if he had a gun on his hip or something, even if he couldn't draw it - fumbling around for it can hit the trigger which can still shoot the officer (or himself, or a bystander). Reaching for a gun while in the course of being arrested is a huge no-no whether or not you can properly draw it (again, who knows if he was reaching for it or not). I do agree that if at all possible (which this seems to indicate that it was) that they should have tazed instead of shot the man. Some people can resist tazing, but I think having one officer taze and the other keep an actual gun pointed at him (and then shot if the suspect continued to reach for his gun) would have been the proper treatment.

The only area I disagree with you on is "they should have just shot him in the hand or something". The cops (and even non-cops when taking firearms safety courses and whatnot) are always instructed that when you fire the weapon, you're shooting to kill. If you're not prepared to kill your target, you don't fire the weapon.
 
Not gonna respond to every post in this thread, but the "shoot to kill" mantra is something I've always had issue with. Cops need to be taught to maim when the situation allows it, rather than kill. Shoot someone in the legs and cripple them, then overpower them. Don't shoot them 12 times in the chest.

In theory this is great. However, the reason they have the "shoot to kill" mantra - is that it prevents cops from firing willy-nilly. If you only shoot when you're shooting to kill, that ensures that any time you fire the gun, you feel as though you're justified to kill your target. It prevents situations where the target might be running away, the cop fires the gun intending to just clip the guys leg to stop him, but the cop misses and accidentally shoots the guy in the back/head killing him. The cop knows he's not justified in killing the suspect if he's fleeing, so there's no cause for him to fire the weapon there, because if he misses - he could end up killing the guy (or someone else).

Now, if someone is in the situation where they are justified in killing the person, but only shoot them in the leg or something, then that can be ok. However, the cop will feel like an idiot (or well, his family will feel like he was an idiot) if he shoots the guy in the leg - and then the guy draws his gun and shoots the cop in the face.
 
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I don't really disagree with anything you said here. The issue is, who gets the benefit of the doubt? And who gets the blame? If the cops didn't have probable cause to tackle him then he would've been well within his rights to use lethal force to defend himself if his life is in danger. At that moment the police officers are breaking the law and they are now the criminals. From that moment on it doesn't matter if he has a gun or not. Or if he reaches for it. The police officers were not operating withing the confines of the law and therefore would not be afforded the normal protection of their status as a police officer. But obviously that isn't how things ever play out. That's why you get the riots. Because their is almost never any accountability for the officers. At worse he'll probably be looking at a suspension without pay. When if the tables had been turned the victim would've gotten life without parole for murdering a cop.

Agreed, the public in general jumps to conclusions on both sides. There are people who claim that the cops are within their rights regardless of the situation, and there are people that claim that it was racist cops killing harmless kids regardless of the situation. Sometimes they even get suspension with pay - which makes it even worse.
 
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The only area I disagree with you on is "they should have just shot him in the hand or something". The cops (and even non-cops when taking firearms safety courses and whatnot) are always instructed that when you fire the weapon, you're shooting to kill. If you're not prepared to kill your target, you don't fire the weapon.

Oh okay, I had no idea that was the rule of thumb for the cops. It's just getting nuttier by the day! I honestly don't understand why anyone that is on the ground, being held down by the cops would even TRY to resist or reach for anything, that is pure stupidity, and sadly this young man had to die because of a lot of apparent bad calls in judgement on several's part.
 
Oh okay, I had no idea that was the rule of thumb for the cops. It's just getting nuttier by the day! I honestly don't understand why anyone that is on the ground, being held down by the cops would even TRY to resist or reach for anything, that is pure stupidity, and sadly this young man had to die because of a lot of apparent bad calls in judgement on several's part.

Witness (the store owner) is claiming that he never reached for his gun. Like you said why would anyone in their right mind reach for their gun when they're already pinned by two cops? Just doesn't really make sense. I think the most likely situation is that they were searching him, saw the gun and were just pretty much put on a hair trigger where any little movement was going to get the guy shot. But if you're getting choked out or pinned down or both at the same time it's pretty hard to stay totally still. Survival instincts will kick in at a certain point.
 
Witness (the store owner) is claiming that he never reached for his gun. Like you said why would anyone in their right mind reach for their gun when they're already pinned by two cops? Just doesn't really make sense. I think the most likely situation is that they were searching him, saw the gun and were just pretty much put on a hair trigger where any little movement was going to get the guy shot. But if you're getting choked out or pinned down or both at the same time it's pretty hard to stay totally still. Survival instincts will kick in at a certain point.

I think I heard somewhere that these cops' chest cams mysteriously fell off? Sounds like a crock of garbage that they're now claiming because they don't want to release the video. If the store owner's account is correct - that's grounds for a murder charge.
 
Sure, these brutal (and potentially murderous) cops are bad but you know what really scares me?? Teenage girls who sleep with their frenemies' boyfriends out of spite, jealousy, and/or revenge!! I mean, sure, the girls' ACTIONS aren't as bad as those of the cops, but still....the girls' INTENT is just as evil and hateful and scary!!!!!!!!! I'm just glad we have angels who can come down and cleanse these slutty girls' souls and get them help. It's just so much scarier to me than police violence.
 
Sure, these brutal (and potentially murderous) cops are bad but you know what really scares me?? Teenage girls who sleep with their frenemies' boyfriends out of spite, jealousy, and/or revenge!! I mean, sure, the girls' ACTIONS aren't as bad as those of the cops, but still....the girls' INTENT is just as evil and hateful and scary!!!!!!!!! I'm just glad we have angels who can come down and cleanse these slutty girls' souls and get them help. It's just so much scarier to me than police violence.

Shots fired...

(grabs popcorn)
 
If a cop asks me to do something, I'm gonna do it. Not because he's a cop or because I was in the wrong. But because I don't want to get shot. And as we've seen, that can happen. I'll do what they say. If the cops have misused their power, then I'll address that on the backside in a court of law. If that still doesn't work in my favor, I guess I'm screwed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Life's a gamble.

With that said, I have zero problem with body cams for all LEOs. I have a feeling that the liberals that clamor for them all the time will end up seeing what I've been saying - the overwhelming majority of instances are justified. That won't sit well with their liberal agenda.
 
If a cop asks me to do something, I'm gonna do it. Not because he's a cop or because I was in the wrong. But because I don't want to get shot. And as we've seen, that can happen. I'll do what they say. If the cops have misused their power, then I'll address that on the backside in a court of law. If that still doesn't work in my favor, I guess I'm screwed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Life's a gamble.

With that said, I have zero problem with body cams for all LEOs. I have a feeling that the liberals that clamor for them all the time will end up seeing what I've been saying - the overwhelming majority of instances are justified. That won't sit well with their liberal agenda.

We're on the same page here. I concede that there are crooked cops and I can buy that pay grievances may play a role in their frustrations...but at the end of the day, from my perspective, there HAS to be some level of common sense to know that the cop has a gun, he/she will shoot you, and you may want to "play ball" and go through the process.

When I was in college, I got one (of many) speeding tickets and was ordered to attend a defensive driving course to keep my license active. I took the course as instructed and went on about my day. Fast forward about 2 years...I get stopped at a checkpoint leaving Wrightsville Beach after work (very routine on that beach every weekend)...cop says I have a suspended license from Virginia. Clearly blindsided by this, I got a little testy and was politely told by the cop that he would "show me some true southern hospitality if I didn't shut the f*ck up and pull over." That was enough for me -- as much of a pain in the ass as it was, I worked it out with the VA DMV and wound up being some dumbass in their office (which is rare, I know) who never filed my paperwork properly...they thought I never took that defensive driving course.

At some point in time, we're all gonna experience that "life sucks" sometimes, but if you just play by the rules and use common sense, you're gonna be fine in the vast majority of times. It's not that difficult.
 
Sure, these brutal (and potentially murderous) cops are bad but you know what really scares me?? Teenage girls who sleep with their frenemies' boyfriends out of spite, jealousy, and/or revenge!! I mean, sure, the girls' ACTIONS aren't as bad as those of the cops, but still....the girls' INTENT is just as evil and hateful and scary!!!!!!!!! I'm just glad we have angels who can come down and cleanse these slutty girls' souls and get them help. It's just so much scarier to me than police violence.

Shameless hussies' lives matter
 
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Sure, these brutal (and potentially murderous) cops are bad but you know what really scares me?? Teenage girls who sleep with their frenemies' boyfriends out of spite, jealousy, and/or revenge!! I mean, sure, the girls' ACTIONS aren't as bad as those of the cops, but still....the girls' INTENT is just as evil and hateful and scary!!!!!!!!! I'm just glad we have angels who can come down and cleanse these slutty girls' souls and get them help. It's just so much scarier to me than police violence.

LMAO you ain't right boy! ;)
 
If a cop asks me to do something, I'm gonna do it. Not because he's a cop or because I was in the wrong. But because I don't want to get shot. And as we've seen, that can happen. I'll do what they say. If the cops have misused their power, then I'll address that on the backside in a court of law. If that still doesn't work in my favor, I guess I'm screwed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Life's a gamble.

With that said, I have zero problem with body cams for all LEOs. I have a feeling that the liberals that clamor for them all the time will end up seeing what I've been saying - the overwhelming majority of instances are justified. That won't sit well with their liberal agenda.

Good luck with that. If you think your odds of getting any kind of recourse against a police officer overstepping his bounds is anything higher than zero then you're wrong. I mean unless you've got somebody video taping the entire thing and you've got multiple eye witnesses, the judge is always going to side with the cop. They're on the same team. That's kinda the whole issue here.

As far as the liberal agenda thing I honestly don't have any idea what you're talking about. The statistics show that American police officers use lethal force at a much higher rate than the global average, and I don't think its because American criminals are just that much more violent. It isn't just about violence though. Cops nowadays are specifically trained to circumvent your rights and intimidate people into just downright letting them do whatever they want. Because its all about asset seizures and generating revenue through citations. The notion that we should just accept that and move on with it is insane. The only way to ensure that cops stop acting like that is to ensure some kind of recourse actually is in place for when they do overstep their bounds. Currently there really is no incentive for a cop to play by the book, because he isn't going to get into any trouble at all if he doesn't.
 
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ahhhh, just find a good one and hang in there... we start loving that around age 40! hahaha seriously!

I have come to believe that women, outside of a handful of genuinely good ones, are often times the dumbest smart people on this planet. I mean that not to be hurtful -- I mean, I have never met an individual that literally argues about EVERYTHING under the sun...with an argument that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...and is convinced she has won said argument simply b/c I lost too many brain cells during the incoherent rambling to muster up a further comment on the matter.

Yet, the same person(s) will use every bit of brain power they have to sneak around on you without getting caught. And when they do get caught...rinse & repeat aforementioned argument thread.

Hang in there THN...I finally slipped up and found a good one. You'll get there.
 
ahhhh, just find a good one and hang in there... we start loving that around age 40! hahaha seriously!
I've got myself a good one who is nearly half that age and loves it. Trust me, I'm well taken care of.....and I'm counting my blessings.

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Hang in there THN...I finally slipped up and found a good one. You'll get there.
Yeah this describes me too. I don't know what I did, but I somehow stumbled into finding a good one back in December.
 
Good luck with that. If you think your odds of getting any kind of recourse against a police officer overstepping his bounds is anything higher than zero then you're wrong. I mean unless you've got somebody video taping the entire thing and you've got multiple eye witnesses, the judge is always going to side with the cop. They're on the same team. That's kinda the whole issue here.

.

Well, I'm pretty good at not breaking the law. So that's always a good start to avoid interaction with cops. Secondly, I'm pretty likable. More times than not, people side with me - or at least that's been the case through the first 41 years. So thanks for your wishes of good luck but I'm not sure I'll need it. I make my own luck.

As far as the liberal agenda thing I honestly don't have any idea what you're talking about. .

I'm talking about the liberal agenda of perpetuating the myth of black victimization by LEOs. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

... and I don't think its because American criminals are just that much more violent..

I don't necessarily think that either. But what I do think is that liberals like you that have bought into the notion that LEOs are out to get us instead of protect us have emboldened criminals and have created the "you're not the boss of me" culture that now exists.

Cops nowadays are specifically trained to circumvent your rights and intimidate people into just downright letting them do whatever they want. .

Link? Or are you just making shit up? And by link, I'm going to need to see something other than some criminal's hypothesis on this.
 
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The spin on this will be that he was shot because he was black. But here in the mid state of SC, if I am confronted by cops, no matter if I have a carry permit or not, if I reach for my weapon no matter if I am just wanting to show it to the cops, this white boy will be shot and not shot to be maimed but shot to be killed. You do not reach for your weapon for any reason with the cops present, you just do not do it.

What you do is in a clear and calm voice inform the cops that you do have a weapon, that you do have a carry permit, and you keep your hands totally away from where your weapon is. Even if you are illegal carrying, even if you are a felon and should not even own any type of fire arm, you do the very same thing or you will be shot until dead. It is not a matter of race folks, it is a matter of being stupid when you have a weapon and the cops confronting you.

And for the record, you do not reach for your weapon for any other reason than to pull it, and you do not ever pull your weapon unless you are 100% ready to use it with deadly force. You do not EVER pull a weapon to scare someone, that gets you dead, quick fast and in a hurry. If you can not live with that rule DO NOT CARRY A WEAPON!
 
The spin on this will be that he was shot because he was black. But here in the mid state of SC, if I am confronted by cops, no matter if I have a carry permit or not, if I reach for my weapon no matter if I am just wanting to show it to the cops, this white boy will be shot and not shot to be maimed but shot to be killed. You do not reach for your weapon for any reason with the cops present, you just do not do it.

What you do is in a clear and calm voice inform the cops that you do have a weapon, that you do have a carry permit, and you keep your hands totally away from where your weapon is. Even if you are illegal carrying, even if you are a felon and should not even own any type of fire arm, you do the very same thing or you will be shot until dead. It is not a matter of race folks, it is a matter of being stupid when you have a weapon and the cops confronting you.

And for the record, you do not reach for your weapon for any other reason than to pull it, and you do not ever pull your weapon unless you are 100% ready to use it with deadly force. You do not EVER pull a weapon to scare someone, that gets you dead, quick fast and in a hurry. If you can not live with that rule DO NOT CARRY A WEAPON!

Bingo. Basic common sense.

FWIW, I've got a permit as well and the instructor repeated over and over and over...if you even get pulled over for a minor traffic stop, you ALWAYS tell the cop that you have a firearm in the vehicle and where it is located.
 
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