Bigs

[Ned Cota]

I'm not talking about rankings. When did I once mention rankings?

I watch HS and AAU basketball games and the players in them A LOT. I don't care about rankings. I know what I see on a court from a lifetime of playing, watching, coaching bball.

With that said, when comparing PJ and Stokes (we aren't talking about Brice Johnson or Cameron Ridley), PJ Washington is BY FAR the better player. Also, with his size, skill, athleticism he is also the better long term player.

So now, let's keep the convo to PJ vs Stokes on the court. Not any other players, not any rankings. When you do that, it's PJ by a country mile.

Come on man. Rankings are a proxy for a group of people's opinions on how good a player is. If you had to rank these two players alone, you'd rank them
1. PJ
2. Stokes
The other dude would flip them based on what he's seen. Maybe he thinks PJ is a tweener, not skilled enough for the wing or big enough for the post and believes Stokes frame will allow him to grow into a post role better than PJ. For all we know he might be right. These kids are 16-17 years old. To pretend like you know so much about how good these kids will be at 20 that you can call someone else stupid is just that, stupid.

Also, you're very lucky to get to see these kids play live. Seeing their games develop is the best part.

 

[dadika13]

Come on man. Rankings are a proxy for a group of people's opinions on how good a player is. If you had to rank these two players alone, you'd rank them
1. PJ
2. Stokes
The other dude would flip them based on what he's seen. Maybe he thinks PJ is a tweener, not skilled enough for the wing or big enough for the post and believes Stokes frame will allow him to grow into a post role better than PJ. For all we know he might be right. These kids are 16-17 years old. To pretend like you know so much about how good these kids will be at 20 that you can call someone else stupid is just that, stupid.

Also, you're very lucky to get to see these kids play live. Seeing their games develop is the best part.

My thing was that he said I only preferred PJ over Stokes because I look at rankings. I was saying no way that is the case. I watch these guys.

No one is saying you can project with certainty how good someone is going to be at 16-17. Heck, NBA GM's can't do it for 22 year olds. What I'm saying is based on what we see right now, PJ is the obvious choice based on their size, skill set, athleticism, etc.

And yeah, one great thing about living in NYC is that the AAU circuits are never too far away. Plus, some great HS programs in the city and surrounding areas.

 

[Ned Cota]

My thing was that he said I only preferred PJ over Stokes because I look at rankings. I was saying no way that is the case. I watch these guys.

No one is saying you can project with certainty how good someone is going to be at 16-17. Heck, NBA GM's can't do it for 22 year olds. What I'm saying is based on what we see right now, PJ is the obvious choice based on their size, skill set, athleticism, etc.

And yeah, one great thing about living in NYC is that the AAU circuits are never too far away. Plus, some great HS programs in the city and surrounding areas.

No doubt buddy. Send some of that talent down South whenever you can!

 

[dadika13]

No doubt buddy. Send some of that talent down South whenever you can!

I'd send them all to UNC if I could!!

 

[Sk1310]

So, now I am "borderline stupid", "stupid", etc.

This is why people stop coming to this forum a lot.

Like I said, I posted why I wanted Stokes more. Feel free to explain why you want the other guys more instead of using insults and they are higher ranked arguments.

The only thing I have come close to seeing as far as an argument so far is "having more upside". Which means exactly what? Something you read somewhere? What does it mean?

Freshman Video:

View embedded media

Junior Video:

View embedded media

Now remember this is the year now where he has finally dedicated to basketball. He has already shot up the recruiting charts.

Tell me why the guys you are looking at are better. Because they might be taller? Make points. If you want to discuss something, make points. Don't insult me.

Relax. No one is calling you stupid. What exactly are your points? That he just started concentrating on basketball? From what youve seen, what is he better at than Knox and Washington? Mid range game? Thats about the only thing I can think of. Athletic ability? Nope. Ball handling? Nope. Passing? Nope. Rebounding? I dont think so, maybe on Knox. Just not understanding what you are.talking about. Claiming rankings dont matter does not mean Stokes is better, sorry.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

PJ is a gamechanger. Hi motor-do what it takes-get the heck out of my way type guy. LOVE to see him in Carolina Blue.

 

[DSouthr]

If we can move away from picking between PJ and Stokes, from what I can see Stokes does look pretty special. Kinda hard to believe, in how refined his skill level seems to be that it was not that long ago he was a 300lb+ offensive lineman. I am still concerned that he does not elevate real well but his footwork seems strong and solid and there is no deny that shooting touch is sweet for a kid his size.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

PJ is the cream of the crop to me. He is a combination of skill, motor, and perfect attitude! Looks like a Tar heel Man to me! I know peeps are ranked higher, but there is not one I want more. I also want to get Knox, Stokes, Brooks, and Huffman, but I've been accused of being a little greedy.

Reality to me is that we get three to sign. I believe we get one of Knox and PJ AND 2 of Huffman, Stokes and Brooks.
Roy will show his true genius in the coming years, just like he did in '05 .'12, and Last year! It is hard to find better overall coaching jobs than those three and I expect it to just get better.

 

[Ned Cota]

PJ is the cream of the crop to me. He is a combination of skill, motor, and perfect attitude! Looks like a Tar heel Man to me! I know peeps are ranked higher, but there is not one I want more. I also want to get Knox, Stokes, Brooks, and Huffman, but I've been accused of being a little greedy.

Reality to me is that we get three to sign. I believe we get one of Knox and PJ AND 2 of Huffman, Stokes and Brooks.
Roy will show his true genius in the coming years, just like he did in '05 .'12, and Last year! It is hard to find better overall coaching jobs than those three and I expect it to just get better.

That does seem like what its coming down to, but I think Huffman is already in the bag. So 1 of PJ and Knox.
And 1 of Stokes and Brooks.
A shot in the dark Vanderbilt commitment would really confuse things, but I'd love it!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

PJ starts, Stokes backs him up for a year and then starts the next.

Tony starts, Brooks or Huffman back him up for a year and one of them starts the next.

See, getting all 4 works perfectly. We have starters and we have guys who will benefit from a year as backup but then can start.

Great shape for 2017-18 and a good foundation for the future.

 

[Ned Cota]

PJ starts, Stokes backs him up for a year and then starts the next.

Tony starts, Brooks or Huffman back him up for a year and one of them starts the next.

See, getting all 4 works perfectly. We have starters and we have guys who will benefit from a year as backup but then can start.

Great shape for 2017-18 and a good foundation for the future.

And don't forget big contributions by Jr./Sr. Luke Maye by then too.

 

[Archer2]

PJ is the cream of the crop to me. He is a combination of skill, motor, and perfect attitude! Looks like a Tar heel Man to me! I know peeps are ranked higher, but there is not one I want more. I also want to get Knox, Stokes, Brooks, and Huffman, but I've been accused of being a little greedy.

Reality to me is that we get three to sign. I believe we get one of Knox and PJ AND 2 of Huffman, Stokes and Brooks.
Roy will show his true genius in the coming years, just like he did in '05 .'12, and Last year! It is hard to find better overall coaching jobs than those three and I expect it to just get better.

I hope so as well.

 

[dadika13]

I hope so as well.

Jalek
Platek
Knox/PJ
Huffman
Brooks/Stokes

That is a great class.

 

[Archer2]

Jalek
Platek
Knox/PJ
Huffman
Brooks/Stokes

That is a great class.

Indeed. .

 

[TPFKAPFS]

I agree this visit is huge! Roy usually knocks the visit out of the park so I feel a positive vibe. Mr. Washington's father seems to have a clear vision for his son and I can't see how he would not trust Roy to help his son get it!

 

[dadika13]

Hey guys...I'm randomly going to be in Austin, TX the weekend that PJ is visiting UT. I will do my best to track him down and get in one last UNC pitch.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Better yet, wear a UT shirt and sabotage the visit!

 

[DSouthr]

I agree this visit is huge! Roy usually knocks the visit out of the park so I feel a positive vibe. Mr. Washington's father seems to have a clear vision for his son and I can't see how he would not trust Roy to help his son get it!

Roy's got this, don't worry!

 

[Butterbutt44]

I hadn't seen Washington play before have been checking out some of his highlights. if theres a better fit for UNC than the way this kid plays I haven't seen it. wow he would thrive here. hope the visit goes well. also, hate to bring it up again, but whoever said theyd rather have stokes should really go watch more tape of this guy. really impressed

 

[Butterbutt44]

Evan daniels saying he thinks Washington will be UK first commit and that he may not even make his ari and tex visits.

Vomit.

 

[DSouthr]

PJ is a gamechanger. Hi motor-do what it takes-get the heck out of my way type guy. LOVE to see him in Carolina Blue.

What ya saying Mikey is on the court PJ is what every program looks for, he is the alpha male, the guy that everyone just gets behind without question. Like a fella named Jordan, this kid knows when to blend in with his mates and he knows when to put them on his back and carry them.

He is that guy that will look his defender in the eye and without saying a word lets him know that you can't stop me, this ball is going in that basket if I have to go around you, over top of you, or thru you, it is up to you but this ball is going in that basket and there ain't a damn thing you are going to do to stop it.

 

[DSouthr]

Evan daniels saying he thinks Washington will be UK first commit and that he may not even make his ari and tex visits.

Vomit.

Consider the source, Evan Daniels will be wrong about that prediction.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Evan daniels saying he thinks Washington will be UK first commit and that he may not even make his ari and tex visits.

Vomit.

If there is a kid in this class who can't be bought by a snake oil salesman it's PJ.

 

[gary-7]

Evan daniels saying he thinks Washington will be UK first commit and that he may not even make his ari and tex visits.

Vomit.

Evan Daniels is a uk homer and part of their propaganda machine. Plain and simple. He basically recruits for them thru his access to the media and it shouldn't be allowed.
He called Ayton to uk the afternoon before he committed to AZ, and had he done actual homework he would have known Ayton had no interest in uk at that point.

 

[Butterbutt44]

Good to know about Daniels, thanks. I had only recognized his name all over recruiting sites, but wasn't aware of the uk connection.

 

[gary-7]

Good to know about Daniels, thanks. I had only recognized his name all over recruiting sites, but wasn't aware of the uk connection.

And also consider he has a say in ranking recruits. See where I'm goin' with this.....?

 

[dadika13]

Evan Daniels is a uk homer and part of their propaganda machine. Plain and simple. He basically recruits for them thru his access to the media and it shouldn't be allowed.
He called Ayton to uk the afternoon before he committed to AZ, and had he done actual homework he would have known Ayton had no interest in uk at that point.

I don't really see that at all. I follow him on Twitter and he covers all recruits pretty evenly, no matter where they are projected to land. It may seem like it's UK heavy because they land more top recruits than anyone else. He was wrong on Ayton, but he's been on the money for other kids and other schools.

He may no longer be as in the know as other scouts, but I don't really see a UK bias.

 

[gary-7]

I don't really see that at all. I follow him on Twitter and he covers all recruits pretty evenly, no matter where they are projected to land. It may seem like it's UK heavy because they land more top recruits than anyone else. He was wrong on Ayton, but he's been on the money for other kids and other schools.

He may no longer be as in the know as other scouts, but I don't really see a UK bias.

You ain't looking very hard then. He is personable and covers recruits because, well, it's his job. but when it comes to a recruit uk wants? His bias is clear and unmistakable.

 

[dadika13]

You ain't looking very hard then. He is personable and covers recruits because, well, it's his job. but when it comes to a recruit uk wants? His bias is clear and unmistakable.

I just went back and reread his piece on PJ's visits and there is zero UK bias. Same with Mo Bamba. Scrolled through his feed on Twitter and found info on literally every school/player. Where exactly are you seeing this so called bias specifically?

Can you give a specific example besides predicting Ayton would go to UK (which I don't even think is a bias because it just makes him look foolish to pick wrong on purpose..I don't see the benefit) and him thinking UK gets PJ?

I'm not here to defend someone I don't know but it's sorta crappy of us as a fan base to claim someone prominent in college basketball coverage has a bias with very little evidence of it.

 

[Ozheelfan]

No surprise, Carter just eliminated UNC.

https://www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/news/wendell-carter-down-to-four-schools/202434318

 

[gary-7]

I just went back and reread his piece on PJ's visits and there is zero UK bias. Same with Mo Bamba. Scrolled through his feed on Twitter and found info on literally every school/player. Where exactly are you seeing this so called bias specifically?

Can you give a specific example besides predicting Ayton would go to UK (which I don't even think is a bias because it just makes him look foolish to pick wrong on purpose..I don't see the benefit) and him thinking UK gets PJ?

I'm not here to defend someone I don't know but it's sorta crappy of us as a fan base to claim someone prominent in college basketball coverage has a bias with very little evidence of it.

Good grief. Of course he didn't pick Ayton wrong "on purpose" --- he just got caught up in his own blinders.
And there's nothing "crappy" about calling it as it is... it ain't like any of this is news for krissakes
But hey, believe what you want .

 

[gary-7]

No surprise, Carter just eliminated UNC.

https://www.sny.tv/college-recruiting/news/wendell-carter-down-to-four-schools/202434318

...and uk (who hasn't really been in it for a while now, which is probably news to Evan Daniels).

It really is a shame he swallowed the Capel Kool-aid, although believe it or not Harvard is, as of now, still a real possibility here.

 

[DSouthr]

...and uk (who hasn't really been in it for a while now, which is probably news to Evan Daniels).

It really is a shame he swallowed the Capel Kool-aid, although believe it or not Harvard is, as of now, still a real possibility here.

Come on gary, you know good & well Harvad as zero shot at this. This is a kid that is committing to play college basketball, he is committing to a school he will be at for what, 2 semesters? It will be a basketball decision, one that IMO has been made for a long while now and when it is exclusively about basketball it ain't gonna be about Harvard. Harvard is there to fluff up his resume, that he was offered and almost went to Harvard because they wanted him to badly, just before he eliminates them and tells everyone what they already know, he loves K-oolaid...

 

[DSouthr]

I don't really see that at all. I follow him on Twitter and he covers all recruits pretty evenly, no matter where they are projected to land. It may seem like it's UK heavy because they land more top recruits than anyone else. He was wrong on Ayton, but he's been on the money for other kids and other schools.

He may no longer be as in the know as other scouts, but I don't really see a UK bias.

Evan is just his penn name, his real first name is Jack...

 

[dadika13]

Good grief. Of course he didn't pick Ayton wrong "on purpose" --- he just got caught up in his own blinders.
And there's nothing "crappy" about calling it as it is... it ain't like any of this is news for krissakes
But hey, believe what you want .

Still waiting for that specific example to prove that you're "calling it as it is".

 

[Archer2]

Gary calls it as he sees it, Dadika, as do you and everyone else. Why can't people agree to disagree with someone else's opinion? If everyone had to provide proof for everything they post, there would be very few posts. Opinions are just that. Agree with them, disagree with them, or just ignore them.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Gary calls it as he sees it, Dadika, as do you and everyone else. Why can't people agree to disagree with someone else's opinion? If everyone had to provide proof for everything they post, there would be very few posts. Opinions are just that. Agree with them, disagree with them, or just ignore them.

Plus, while I don't have Gary's resources, when I read what he says, I sort of do.

Each of us forms opinions on the sources we encounter. This site, other discussion sites, ranking sites, and the rest.

We all put the information together differently. Which is what makes the conversation interesting.

 

[dadika13]

Gary calls it as he sees it, Dadika, as do you and everyone else. Why can't people agree to disagree with someone else's opinion? If everyone had to provide proof for everything they post, there would be very few posts. Opinions are just that. Agree with them, disagree with them, or just ignore them.

He's not making an opinion, that's the point. He's saying that Daniels, one of the biggest names in CBB recruiting, has a bias toward one school. That's trying to drub up something out of nothing because UK gets recruits. I read literally everything he tweets and haven't once felt one ounce of UK bias nor have I heard anyone call him out for that.

It's just a crap thing to make up about someone who does a good job for what he's asked to do.

 

[Archer2]

When he says Daniels is biased, it's just his opinion, nothing more and nothing less. When you disagree, that's your opinion. Daniels gets compensated well for what he does, I'm sure he couldn't care less what any of us thinks.

 

[dadika13]

He basically recruits for them thru his access to the media and it shouldn't be allowed.

This is a serious accusation you're making and you should have some sort of proof to back that up.

That's my entire point.