Coach Fedora

[tarheel0910]

I know this will send THN into a rant but I still say build it and they will come. If we could string together 3 double digit win seasons, I think the stadium would fill up. But one trip to the ACCCG followed by an 8-5 season isn't going to do it. Heck, we may not even win 8 games next year.

I think two good seasons back to back with a bowl win could do it. The atmosphere the last couple of seasons when Mack was here was excellent. We were having to bring in temporary seats for big games. The biggest problem with the fan base is that we expect excellence because we are almost always a top 25 team in every other sport. Fair or not those expectations spill over to the football program and the fan base is constantly disappointed in the results. The fan base needs to adjust their expectations for the football program so they are not constantly disappointed.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Won't ever happen. All you have to do is look at the attendance at the Duke game immediately following the infamous FSU game in '97.

This fanbase sucks and won't support football. They don't even support basketball (talking attendance here) when that team drifts outside the Top 25. I do my part and go to the football games. I wish more would do the same instead of whining. Our fanbase will always find an excuse not to go to a game.

Fair or not those expectations spill over to the football program and the fan base is constantly disappointed in the results. The fan base needs to adjust their expectations for the football program so they are not constantly disappointed.

AKA, the fanbase needs to not be a funch of Frankie Frontrunners and need to develop some perspective.

 

[tarheel0910]

Won't ever happen. All you have to do is look at the attendance at the Duke game immediately following the infamous FSU game in '97.

This fanbase sucks and won't support football. They don't even support basketball (talking attendance here) when that team drifts outside the Top 25. I do my part and go to the football games. I wish more would do the same instead of whining. Our fanbase will always find an excuse not to go to a game.


AKA, the fanbase needs to not be a funch of Frankie Frontrunners and need to develop some perspective.

You do realize that this isn't unique to UNC though right? Even Alabama had a small attendance drop in 2015. There is not a single school that fills up their stadiums or arenas with fans that will show up no matter what. Sell outs happen because of casual fans, band wagon fans and fans who only want to waste money when the team is good. In other words, if you want people in the seats then you need to consistently win.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

You do realize that this isn't unique to UNC though right? Even Alabama had a small attendance drop in 2015. There is not a single school that fills up their stadiums or arenas with fans that will show up no matter what. Sell outs happen because of casual fans, band wagon fans and fans who only want to waste money when the team is good. In other words, if you want people in the seats then you need to consistently win.

Alabama's stadium holds 101,000 people. If 5,000 people don't show up, who the hell cares? Kenan is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than that. Even so, if we could get 59,000 of the 63,000 capacity to every game, I'd be completely happy. We hardly ever come close to hitting that 59,000 number though.

Lots of schools nearly double the size of Kenan with their attendance for one game. And even on the second tier of stadium size, a school like UGA.... say Sanford doesn't sell out and only 88,000 people show up. That's still 30,000 more people than we can manage to put in Kenan.

 

[tarheel0910]

Alabama's stadium holds 101,000 people. If 5,000 people don't show up, who the hell cares? Kenan is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than that. Even so, if we could get 59,000 of the 63,000 capacity to every game, I'd be completely happy. We hardly ever come close to hitting that 59,000 number though.

I know that, but my point is that attendance can go down for every program not just us. You're always trying to compare UNC's fan base with the big boys in other conferences, but they have the same problems that we do. It's just not as noticeable because of the results on the field. Texas is the perfect example of that. When they were winning all of their games were packed. They started losing and people stopped showing up.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I know that, but my point is that attendance can go down for every program not just us. You're always trying to compare UNC's fan base with the big boys in other conferences, but they have the same problems that we do. It's just not as noticeable because of the results on the field. Texas is the perfect example of that. When they were winning all of their games were packed. They started losing and people stopped showing up.

63,000 - 20,000 =/= 100,000 - 20,000

 

[tarheel0910]

63,000 - 20,000 =/= 100,000 - 20,000

Ok, so fan apathy is not a problem if the numbers are bigger?

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I'd go to a lot more games if I were in the area, but that being said - why should I go pay full price to watch UNC kick the crap out of some garbage team (ODU, JMU [sorry just because they won the FCS title doesn't make them a big draw], The Citadel, etc.)? And for the conference games, why go watch them lay up a clunker against a team they should roll like NCSU this year? And I'm an actual fan, a casual fan would have those sentiments x2.

Get better teams in for games, and better results, and the asses in seats will follow. Does anyone think the ND game won't be sold out next year? The Louisville game should be fairly close if not a sellout as well, based on their success this year. Ya the UVA game is supposedly a rivalry game, but that's not going to draw a crowd if neither team is ranked. Same for the Duke game.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'd go to a lot more games if I were in the area, but that being said - why should I go pay full price to watch UNC kick the crap out of some garbage team (ODU, JMU [sorry just because they won the FCS title doesn't make them a big draw], The Citadel, etc.)? And for the conference games, why go watch them lay up a clunker against a team they should roll like NCSU this year? And I'm an actual fan, a casual fan would have those sentiments x2.

Get better teams in for games, and better results, and the asses in seats will follow. Does anyone think the ND game won't be sold out next year? The Louisville game should be fairly close if not a sellout as well, based on their success this year. Ya the UVA game is supposedly a rivalry game, but that's not going to draw a crowd if neither team is ranked. Same for the Duke game.

Sorry, you're not a real fan. Real fans must show up every game, tailgate for at least 3 hours, buy thousands of dollars worth of merchandise and stand up the whole game.

 

[Archer2]

THN is nothing, if not predictable, when it comes to football. More success equates to more butts in the seats. There is no valid way to argue against that fact, but that never stops him from trying to blame it all on our horrible, front running, fickle fan base.

Yet IIRC, and he'll correct me if I'm wrong, he predicted losses in the SC game last year as well as the Georgia game this year, showing a marked lack of confidence in the quality of the product we're putting on the field.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Yet IIRC, and he'll correct me if I'm wrong, he predicted losses in the SC game last year as well as the Georgia game this year, showing a marked lack of confidence in the quality of the product we're putting on the field.

Yeah, but I still attended the game and cheered like hell. Did you?

Whatever. The excuse-making permeates this fanbase. BTW, I have never said people are required to go to every game. I totally get that some people live far away. Hell, Hark usually makes one game a season and he lives in frickin Boston!! Yet the millions of UNC alums who live in fuggin Raleigh / Durham / RTP can't be bothered to attend games. Drives me up the damn wall. There's 7/6 home games a year. If every fan just picked ONE game to go to a season, we could fill up Kenan 10 times over for each home game.

Oh and y'all want success? We just went11-1, our best season in 25 years, and still our fans couldn't be bothered to show up during that season or in the season after it. We need to scale Kenan's capacity down to 45,000

 

[tarheel0910]

Oh and y'all want success? We just went11-1, our best season in 25 years, and still our fans couldn't be bothered to show up during that season or in the season after it.

And what did we do for the 20 years before that? You have to have sustained success or at least above average success for more than one season.

 

[tarheel0910]

Yeah, but I still attended the game and cheered like hell. Did you?

Also, this is a FOS comment that I see too much on other boards. How about we keep it off of this one.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

And what did we do for the 20 years before that? You have to have sustained success or at least above average success for more than one season in order for our frontrunning fanbase to finally decide to show up, but only if it's a name opponent, and only if it's not too hot or too cold.

FTFY

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Also, this is a FOS comment that I see too much on other boards. How about we keep it off of this one.

I hate it too but y'all forced me into it with your pathetic excuse-laden arguments.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

If I see the NCAA cloud dropped as an excuse in this thread, my head may explode.

 

[tarheel0910]

I hate it too but y'all forced me into it with your pathetic excuse-laden arguments.

My arguments were fact based. The fact that you don't like it is your problem not mine.

If I see the NCAA cloud dropped as an excuse in this thread, my head may explode.

Well, it has hurt recruiting. It has led to recruits looking somewhere else. That leads to less talent, which results in more losses. So, it's the NCAA's fault.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Hell, Hark usually makes one game a season and he lives in frickin Boston!!

As for what fans require to go to games - I have no sympathy for the too hot/cold thing. If its a good game, get your ass in the seat regardless of the weather - dress appropriately and you'll be fine. However I do sympathize with those that are dependent on the opponent. If I were in the area, I'd probably go to every home conference game, and the home games against good OOC teams (or ND). I'd probably still be down to show up to tailgate for the ODUs, JMUs, Citadels, WCUs - but I would have pretty much no interest in actually going into the stadium to watch those games.

 

[grillheel]

Paging @Raising Heel

 

[tarheel0910]

As for what fans require to go to games - I have no sympathy for the too hot/cold thing. If its a good game, get your ass in the seat regardless of the weather - dress appropriately and you'll be fine. However I do sympathize with those that are dependent on the opponent. If I were in the area, I'd probably go to every home conference game, and the home games against good OOC teams (or ND). I'd probably still be down to show up to tailgate for the ODUs, JMUs, Citadels, WCUs - but I would have pretty much no interest in actually going into the stadium to watch those games.

I'm still not 100% convinced that @TarHeelNation11 wants people to go to the games. I mean, I'm probably a 30 minute drive from him and he has yet to offer to buy me a ticket and drive me up to the game so I could be there. Clearly if he wanted people to go he would have done that already. He's just like a woman, just wants something to complain about.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Well, it has hurt recruiting. It has led to recruits looking somewhere else. That leads to less talent, which results in more losses. So, it's the NCAA's fault.

If you choose not to show up to support the team because you're "embarrassed" (or whatever other adjective) about the NCAA cloud, then:

1). I never, ever want you in my foxhole because you're a quitter
2). GFY

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I'm still not 100% convinced that @TarHeelNation11 wants people to go to the games. I mean, I'm probably a 30 minute drive from him and he has yet to offer to buy me a ticket and drive me up to the game so I could be there. Clearly if he wanted people to go he would have done that already. He's just like a woman, just wants something to complain about.

I'd murder you before we made it to Easley. We'd rock good music up until that point though.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I'd murder you before we made it to Easley. We'd rock good music up until that point though.

You guys would get sidetracked chasing after your weird looking rocker chicks and never make it to the game anyways.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

You guys would get sidetracked chasing after your weird looking rocker chicks and never make it to the game anyways.

I mean... not sure you're gonna find many sexy rocker chicks in Braselton, Toccoa, Walhalla, Clemson, Easley, Gaffney, or Belmont. Maybe we'll stop in Charlotte and hunt for some though.

 

[Raising Heel]

Paging @Raising Heel

What did *I* do?

Look, everyone has their own perspective. I happen to love college football more than most things in the world, especially when my alma mater is playing. I would show up to watch them play just about anybody. However, I understand that people have jobs, lives and don't have all day to post on every message board have competing priorities that are more important than devoting 4+ hours of their fall Saturdays to being in Chapel Hill. I've mostly gotten past complaining about it.

One recent thing that has enhanced the whole experience for me is tailgating. I used to just show up to games in time to park and get in my seat, then head home when the game was over. Now that we've started committing to the tailgate, I probably look forward to that as much as the game. Day drinking and grilling with a bunch of Tar Heel fans? Hell yes.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

What did *I* do?

Look, everyone has their own perspective. I happen to love college football more than most things in the world, especially when my alma mater is playing. I would show up to watch them play just about anybody. However, I understand that people have jobs, lives and don't have all day to post on every message board have competing priorities that are more important than devoting 4+ hours of their fall Saturdays to being in Chapel Hill. I've mostly gotten past complaining about it.

One recent thing that has enhanced the whole experience for me is tailgating. I used to just show up to games in time to park and get in my seat, then head home when the game was over. Now that we've started committing to the tailgate, I probably look forward to that as much as the game. Day drinking and grilling with a bunch of Tar Heel fans? Hell yes.

Yesss. And I want to expand the crew. Hark is invited. Tarheel0910. . . . eh. We'll see.

Also, I'm gonna look into a way to make the TV happen this year.

 

[tarheel0910]

Tarheel0910. . . . eh. We'll see.

Well damn. I guess f**k you too.

 

[grillheel]

Well damn. I guess f**k you too.

Hey, you can always tailgate with us, man, and we'll all give THN hell...well, if he shows up, that is.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Well damn. I guess f**k you too.

Just joking with you, big hoss. The more, the merrier.

 

[Raising Heel]

Tarheel0910. . . . eh. We'll see.

Well damn. I guess f**k you too.

Just joking with you, big hoss. The more, the merrier.

If you do come up with THN, you're both welcome to crash at my place in Charlotte as a stop over point. I won't even make you share a bed.

 

[Archer2]

Years of mediocrity, one good year, and back to mediocrity. That's not going to fill the stadium. Be real.

 

[uncboy10]

You do realize that this isn't unique to UNC though right? Even Alabama had a small attendance drop in 2015. There is not a single school that fills up their stadiums or arenas with fans that will show up no matter what. Sell outs happen because of casual fans, band wagon fans and fans who only want to waste money when the team is good. In other words, if you want people in the seats then you need to consistently win.

USuCk used to damn near fill the dead cockroach when they were winning 2 games a year in the early 2000's. Clemson fills their stadium pretty much every game and that was going on long before they started experiencing the kind of success they are now. Those are just two examples I have first hand experience with. Tons of schools stay over 85-90% capacity even in down years.

It's also important to remember that having a sellout crowd that makes noise actually increases the chances of winning on any given saturday. Not only do you lose that home field advantage, the players definitely get dejected when they run out of the tunnel to a stadium that's 60% full. And you get a huge recruiting boost by having a great home football atmosphere. If Carolina fans really want to see us become a football power then they'll have to accept the fact that filling Kenan regardless of the team's record is a prerequisite for that.

What did *I* do?

Look, everyone has their own perspective. I happen to love college football more than most things in the world, especially when my alma mater is playing. I would show up to watch them play just about anybody. However, I understand that people have jobs, lives and don't have all day to post on every message board have competing priorities that are more important than devoting 4+ hours of their fall Saturdays to being in Chapel Hill. I've mostly gotten past complaining about it.

One recent thing that has enhanced the whole experience for me is tailgating. I used to just show up to games in time to park and get in my seat, then head home when the game was over. Now that we've started committing to the tailgate, I probably look forward to that as much as the game. Day drinking and grilling with a bunch of Tar Heel fans? Hell yes.

Tailgating is the real key to filling a college football stadium. Every place I've ever been that had a big time college football atmosphere had the tailgating scene to match.

 

[strummingram]

uncboy lives here, too (Clemson). This place breathes football year-round. Clemson has been the landmark ACC football school during most of the conference's existence. FSU left a huge mark when it first joined. UVA was the first team to beat them, and I forget how many years they'd been in the conference before that ever happened. But, Clemson is becoming another Alabama in terms of dominance. I go to the UNC games when we play here. But, we rarely win. But, still, Clemson is going to be in the Top 5 as long as Dabo is there now. He can get any recruit he wants in a 4-5 state radius. He'll beat-out UGA, Tennessee, even Forida. And, any ACC school except maybe FSU. He has the best staff and the best facilities. It's hard to compete against that.

UNC is just not that kind of a school. It never has been, nor will be. We have a basketball program that is one of the all-time greatest. That's why Bear Bryant left Kentucky in the 50's! Be glad we have a dominant sport!

It's a Catch-22 at UNC. If a coach brings UNC to a level like Mack Brown, they get lured away by a Texas or an SEC school. And, without seasons like 2015, the fans aren't going to fill that stadium with the access we have to see games now. And, our bowl game record isn't anything stellar either. It's pretty awful. Since 2000, we're 3 wins and 7 losses. Not much of an incentive to travel to El Paso or Detroit or Louisiana.

In the mid-late 90's I was living in Charlotte and went to at least 4 home games every year. But, now, the access is not the same and I don't have the spare cash in the fall to go to them. I was going to go to the ACC CG against Clemson, but unexpected circumstances prevented it.

As for Fedora? He's a decent coach, and his recruiting, and staff, will deliver 8-wins-on-average seasons at best. In my opinion, he totally showed his lack of ability when he lost to dook and moo this season with a great team- especially a better defense than he had last year. Marquise Williams was to thank for 2015. Not knocking Mitch at all. Mitch is awesome. Fedora and Co. pissed a potentially great encore season away with the 3 losses at the end.

 

[gauchoheel]

So why is the fanbase so lackluster? That's what I want to know. It can't be as simple as tailgating. Is it just that historically the team has not been successful, so people didn't grow up rooting for them?

Tennessee has been completely mediocre the last 10 years. They haven't had trouble filling a stadium that's nearly twice the size of ours.

Surely the home and home's with ODU aren't doing us any favors. Bubba need to get those games off the schedule. But that's a small part of it.

 

[UNC '92]

If you do come up with THN, you're both welcome to crash at my place in Charlotte as a stop over point. I won't even make you share a bed.

Yeah, because you'll probably make one of them sleep in your bed for a little forcey fun time.

 

[Raising Heel]

Yeah, because you'll probably make one of them sleep in your bed for a little forcey fun time.

Only after I pour them one of my famous Cosby Cocktails.

 

[CUTIGER91]

Won't ever happen. All you have to do is look at the attendance at the Duke game immediately following the infamous FSU game in '97.

This fanbase sucks and won't support football. They don't even support basketball (talking attendance here) when that team drifts outside the Top 25. I do my part and go to the football games. I wish more would do the same instead of whining. Our fanbase will always find an excuse not to go to a game.


AKA, the fanbase needs to not be a funch of Frankie Frontrunners and need to develop some perspective.

One word. Tailgating. It's the glue that holds it all together.

I'm a Clemson fan. We had a lot of crap teams in the 90's under Hatfield, West, Bowden. BUT, the fans kept coming b/c we'd still go enjoy the tailgate and hope for a win.

It's a chance to see old friends, enjoy a nice fall Saturday outside, etc. It gets young fans interested as they grow up going to games with family.

SC is the same way. They suck and always have, but for some reason they always had the party tailgate tradition going that kept fans coming through all the losing.

UNC isn't set up the same way as Clemson, but I think you have much nicer tailgating areas than SC and could make it work. It will take a long time to have an appreciable effect, but you have to start somewhere.

 

[GoToHeelDook]

How does that mean he's not playing a character?

I work in an industry where I've met and spent ample time around no less than 200 celebrities- some of the biggest in the world. Depending on the event- they often put on a show and play their "character" but are totally different in a quiet room amongst peers. Dabo, at an AAU game, I'm assuming in the Carolinas or somewhere in the south, HAS to be on his p's and q's and keep up the image. I'm just saying I don't really buy it.

His trigger to defend his team is potentially the biggest in college athletics other than K. It's almost like he has a Napoleonic complex for some odd reason. A couple of years ago when he flipped out about "Clemsoning", multiple times mentioning every big team they've ever beaten, this year calling out Cowherd (who yes, made an idiotic statement but as a head coach you ignore that- you don't bring it up the freakin' National Championship postgame press conference), etc. All those things come across more as "sore winner" than they do "humble guy", but for some reason because he's at a rags to riches program everyone gives him the benefit of the doubt.

Roy would never do half of the things that Dabo does, and he's a freakin' Hall of Famer. I prefer it that way to the alternative.

Like I said- I like Clemson football and typically always have. But Dabo's BS persona is starting to wear on my nerves.

I was talking to my boss at work this morning, he has a son the same age as Dabo's son and they played against each other on the AAU circuit. Dabo was at the game and his son's team got killed. He still took the time to meet and take pictures with the team that had just spanked his son. My boss came away very impressed with the humble man he was that day.

 

[GoToHeelDook]

You frankly have the best tailgating I've ever experienced in football anywhere, as well as the best game day environment I've ever seen.

And I've been to a lot of different venues. Death Valley is just a notch above.

One word. Tailgating. It's the glue that holds it all together.

I'm a Clemson fan. We had a lot of crap teams in the 90's under Hatfield, West, Bowden. BUT, the fans kept coming b/c we'd still go enjoy the tailgate and hope for a win.

It's a chance to see old friends, enjoy a nice fall Saturday outside, etc. It gets young fans interested as they grow up going to games with family.

SC is the same way. They suck and always have, but for some reason they always had the party tailgate tradition going that kept fans coming through all the losing.

UNC isn't set up the same way as Clemson, but I think you have much nicer tailgating areas than SC and could make it work. It will take a long time to have an appreciable effect, but you have to start somewhere.

 

[GoToHeelDook]

I assume you're suggesting it's because of his love of Dean? I get that argument. But his love of Dean kind of IS his love of Carolina. The two are synonymous.

I truly think the only way Roy wouldn't be here right now is if he won a title at Kansas. That legacy would have probably been enough to keep him there.

bad example.
roy isn't here because of his love of carolina.