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Considering this election from a different POV- (not supportive of Trump or Hillary)

If it's any consolation; I think this shows we're shifting politically and I think this is all a harbinger of things to come. I think that, collectively, Americans are getting very sick of the way their government is treating them. I think the campaigns of Ron Paul, the Tea Party movement, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump are all proof that the people are tired of it and they're taking serious measures to show their "leaders" that the apathy is shifting.

I just wish the people could do this without being so divisive with each other.
 
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strummingram said:
If it's any consolation; I think this shows we're shifting politically and I think this is all a harbinger of things to come. I think that, collectively, Americans are getting very sick of the way their government is treating them. I think the campaigns of Ron Paul, the Tea Party movement, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump are all proof that the people are tired of it and they're taking serious measures to show their "leaders" that the apathy is shifting.

I just wish the people could do this without being so divisive with each other.
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I think you're right and it's a damn shame that the 2 choices we have are these two clowns.
 
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prlyles said:
I think you're right and it's a damn shame that the 2 choices we have are these two clowns.
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Well, the system produces what is put into it, too. If all of us, right now, began fervently trying to find an ideal candidate for our NEXT congressional election, we'd be making progress. I'd be willing to bet that Jeff Duncan, my congressman, is running virtually unopposed! That guy has the most direct impact on me at a national level.

I remember Lindsay Graham stating he was going to ONLY serve two terms, and thereby set an example of term limits. And, he still has a senate seat 20+ years later.
 
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strummingram said:
Just his entire persona. His whole presence has very selfish vibe to me.

I used to watch/listen to Howard Stern a lot. When I couldn't get his radio show anymore, I watched the E! show a lot. Trump would come on there fairly regularly and make comments about whatever was going on. And, that persona is what I grew to know and expect. It wasn't "good" or "bad", necessarily, just... Donald Trump. He'd call-in and give his 2 cents about what was going on. Howard Stern is hardly an intellectual's mainstay. It was comedy and extreme gags... I liked that! But, he (Trump) was never someone that ever exhibited any insight that I could empathize with.

I never took him serious. He's always been sort of an inside joke, I guess. He's like an entertainment icon. He thinks he's amazing, but no one takes him seriously. He does have things that he knows how to do well. He has his "zone" for sure. He markets well. I don't mean that he is vapid, like, say, the Kardashians. But, he's not many rungs above that!
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So it's not that you don't trust him, it is that you don't like him.
 
strummingram said:
I'm also not very pleased to find out that he stiffed a lot of these people he did business with. assuming thy're true, of course.
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It's not true, at least not in the sense it is being reported. I have no doubt he refused to pay bills to a few contractors who didn't complete job to his satisfaction. I would do the same.

But just like with all the women they tried to roll out last week, if any of it were true, it would have been in court a long, long time ago and would be public record now.
 
prlyles said:
No, I think that is one of his many problems, he does "need this shit" and he needs it in a way that is bad for the country. Everything that has been said bad about Clinton is true but your guy is just too far out there and too big of a risk.
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No, he doesn't need this shit. Or why don't you tell me why he does need it?

You don't like him- that's been obvious from the get go. But he is not out there and he is not risky.
 
prlyles said:
I haven't seen anything that would show he has been successful in anything. The only thing any of us can go by is his long history of failed businesses.
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Now you are just being silly.
 
prlyles said:
I think you're right and it's a damn shame that the 2 choices we have are these two clowns.
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Trump is the best GOP candidate since Reagan and there is no close second.

And it should be noted that the GOP back then hated Reagan just like they hate Trump.
 
UNC71-00 said:
So it's not that you don't trust him, it is that you don't like him.
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Well, both, actually. I don't know him, personally. From what I have seen of him, through the years, no... he doesn't seem like someone I'd like to be around. But, as I said, I have no doubt that he excels at marketing himself and his ventures.

And, again, if you have a policy speech, I'll gladly watch it.
 
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strummingram said:
Well, both, actually. I don't know him, personally. From what I have seen of him, through the years, no... he doesn't seem like someone I'd like to be around. But, as I said, I have no doubt that he excels at marketing himself and his ventures.

And, again, if you have a policy speech, I'll gladly watch it.
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Don't be obtuse. No one thinks you know him personally. My comment was that you don't like his persona.

I ask again- what don't you trust?
 
UNC71-00 said:
It's not true, at least not in the sense it is being reported. I have no doubt he refused to pay bills to a few contractors who didn't complete job to his satisfaction. I would do the same.

But just like with all the women they tried to roll out last week, if any of it were true, it would have been in court a long, long time ago and would be public record now.
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That may be true. I would hope that he paid for more than ones where he stiffed them.
 
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nctransplant said:
Pretty sure his wealth surpasses anyone's on this board.
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The growth of his wealth has failed to keep up with the growth of the market. If he had just invested the money he got from his daddy in index funds he'd have more money than he does today. Which means he's not even the successful businessman that his supporters love to claim he is.
 
UNC71-00 said:
Don't be obtuse. No one thinks you know him personally. My comment was that you don't like his persona.

I ask again- what don't you trust?
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Well, if I don't like how the man presents himself, acts towards others, and has conducted business, then it's not likely that I will trust him either. Especially to be the president of the United States... when he has never held any elected office of any kind. I don't think he has a full understanding of what he's getting himself into and I think that proves he's even less qualified. So, I don't trust that things will go very well for him, the administration, and the country as a whole.

Maybe trust wasn't a totally accurate word toward HIM, directly. I simply don't believe he's qualified or has what it takes to be the President. He seems to enjoy creating enemies, too.

But, I would appreciate any link to a video or something where he's giving a speech or explaining what you were referring to earlier. I will watch it.
 
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UNC71-00 said:
Don't be obtuse. No one thinks you know him personally. My comment was that you don't like his persona.

I ask again- what don't you trust?
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I'll tell you what I don't trust. I don't trust that he will have a clue how to handle issues pertinent to the middle and lower class. In order to help you sometimes have to KNOW what it's like to have an idea of how to take care of those issues.

I don't expect you to get it either so save your hateful speech about hand outs. I'm not talking about that.
 
chick_bleeds_carolina_blue said:
I'll tell you what I don't trust. I don't trust that he will have a clue how to handle issues pertinent to the middle and lower class. In order to help you sometimes have to KNOW what it's like to have an idea of how to take care of those issues.

I don't expect you to get it either so save your hateful speech about hand outs. I'm not talking about that.
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You know what I don't trust?

2 people with the same IP.
 
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uncboy10 said:
The growth of his wealth has failed to keep up with the growth of the market. If he had just invested the money he got from his daddy in index funds he'd have more money than he does today. Which means he's not even the successful businessman that his supporters love to claim he is.
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Almost all business ventures fail. To barely miss the S&P record is a success.

How many people have jobs because Trump started his business? How many would have had jobs if he had just invested Dad's money in an index fund?

Business in this country is based on people taking risks. He took risks and succeeded.

Don't be a hater, Son.
 
UNC71-00 said:
Almost all business ventures fail. To barely miss the S&P record is a success.

How many people have jobs because Trump started his business? How many would have had jobs if he had just invested Dad's money in an index fund?

Business in this country is based on people taking risks. He took risks and succeeded.

Don't be a hater, Son.
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How many business start out with access to millions of dollars of capital without going into debt? He should have had a much higher rate of success than the average entrepreneur. Yet, he's well known for running businesses, pageants, golf tournaments and anything else he can get his hands on into the ground.

How many people has Trump shafted by refusing to pay them for their services?

I'm sure that not too many people still have jobs from Trump's ventures, largely because nearly all of them have gone belly up. But even for his ventures that are still going, he isn't the one creating the jobs. The consumers who buy his products are. If demand disappears then the business goes bankrupt and can't employ anyone at all. The notion that capitalists create jobs is a myth. Consumers create jobs, because their demand has to be met. Without consumers buying products, you can't keep paying laborers to produce.
 
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uncboy10 said:
How many business start out with access to millions of dollars of capital without going into debt? He should have had a much higher rate of success than the average entrepreneur. Yet, he's well known for running businesses, pageants, golf tournaments and anything else he can get his hands on into the ground.

How many people has Trump shafted by refusing to pay them for their services?

I'm sure that not too many people still have jobs from Trump's ventures, largely because nearly all of them have gone belly up. But even for his ventures that are still going, he isn't the one creating the jobs. The consumers who buy his products are. If demand disappears then the business goes bankrupt and can't employ anyone at all. The notion that capitalists create jobs is a myth. Consumers create jobs, because their demand has to be met. Without consumers buying products, you can't keep paying laborers to produce.
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That's simply not true. And you tell me how many people got "shafted" vs how many did a shitty job and still wanted to get paid. Those of us who have hired contractors know who to believe in this dispute.

the part about consumers Is true. But everyone always forgets that consumers are also workers.
 
UNC71-00 said:
That's simply not true. And you tell me how many people got "shafted" vs how many did a shitty job and still wanted to get paid. Those of us who have hired contractors know who to believe in this dispute.

the part about consumers Is true. But everyone always forgets that consumers are also workers.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ress-are-probably-never-ever-going-to-happen/

That actually has a video. Technically, he says "oppose term limits", but I think he meant to say IMPOSE term limits.

Then, the article goes on to say how it's not likely. But, not likely doesn't mean impossible. I just wonder if it's like Obama promising what he couldn't deliver (or most politicians), about Guantanamo. Regardless, that was actually a positive thing to hear him say. The first comment under the article said :

"This is probably the first thing Trump has said that I agree with. If the President can't serve for more than 2 terms, then neither should anyone in Congress."
 
strummingram said:
If it's any consolation; I think this shows we're shifting politically and I think this is all a harbinger of things to come. I think that, collectively, Americans are getting very sick of the way their government is treating them. I think the campaigns of Ron Paul, the Tea Party movement, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump are all proof that the people are tired of it and they're taking serious measures to show their "leaders" that the apathy is shifting.

I just wish the people could do this without being so divisive with each other.
Click to expand...

I agree. But it will be too late when people wake up. I don't think most of y'all understand the severity of the situation. America - as you know it - may not exist in 2020 for the next election. I know some of y'all will slough that off as tin foil hat-ish, but the risk of that happening is real.
 
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gunslingerdick said:
I agree. But it will be too late when people wake up. I don't think most of y'all understand the severity of the situation. America - as you know it - may not exist in 2020 for the next election. I know some of y'all will slough that off as tin foil hat-ish, but the risk of that happening is real.
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I understand completely. This is our last shot because just like I will drop out of giving a shit about doing anything other than figuring out how to leave assets for my kids (and doing so any and every way possible) so too will many others.

Hillary is the worst candidate ever. And without the media rigging this thing for her, she would be down 60 points.
 
gunslingerdick said:
I agree. But it will be too late when people wake up. I don't think most of y'all understand the severity of the situation. America - as you know it - may not exist in 2020 for the next election. I know some of y'all will slough that off as tin foil hat-ish, but the risk of that happening is real.
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Well, I don't think it's ever "too late." No matter who wins the presidential election, the country will survive and continue on. Even I dialed-back on the SHTF if Trump were to win. So, I'm good either way.

I don't want America to be the same in 2020 as it is now. But, I'm assuming you're referring to we would no longer have a democratically-elected republic. I think we will.
 
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