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did Clemson give the rest of the league the blueprint to stop Grayson Allen and Duke

IDUNK4HEELS

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Grayson is a tremendous college player no doubt but what Clemson did tonight was to cut off the lane so that Allen could not drive or get fouled where he makes a living from the foul line. Allen had 17 points but much was from the outside. Clemson also spread out Duke which lead to a bunch of easy baskets for the Tigers. Clemson wins over Duke, not a misprint Duke falls at Clemson just like Louisville did on Sunday
 
They have no depth, if they get into foul trouble they're finished until Amile gets back. Also they can't rebound very well, some of that is due to Amile but even with him they only have 2 usable bigs. They shot the 3 pretty well and still lost to a vastly inferior team.
 
Until Amile gets back, that's the way to beat us. Way too many easy baskets inside, he changes the entire way we play D, also doesn't give up nearly the amount of offensive rebounds Plumlee gives up. That's why I think we lose to you the first game unless he's back by then, which I don't think he will be. Also think we're too passive at times, especially Ingram and Allen. Neither of them really have that killer instinct yet.

Bummer of a loss but as long as Amile's back by the NCAA tournament, I'm not too worried.
 
When over half your points are from 3, it is just not a reliable system for success. Jeter is a disappointment, got to say it like it is. Top 15 recruit who sees very little time, Roy gets tons of flack when 5 stars don't meet "expectations" but this kid can't get on the floor when they have one legit healthy big. Coaching has nothing to do with it, some kids are ready to contribute, others aren't. Maybe some of them will realize that now.
 
I have had my doubts but I am now convinced Allen is the real thing. I think we will see him contribute in the NBA fairly soon. That being said, I do think stopping Allen is a key to compete against Duke but the bigs for Duke did not contribute like I thought they would after defending Allen.
Plumlee - 7 pts. 3 TO Jeter - 0 pts and fouled out. They obviously miss Jefferson more than I thought they would.

Duke is still going to be a very good team at the end of the year but has some issues at this point. It also goes to show that an away game in the ACC is a tough task in general and not loosing on your home court is extremely important for the final ACC standings.
 
Grayson is a tremendous college player no doubt but what Clemson did tonight was to cut off the lane so that Allen could not drive or get fouled where he makes a living from the foul line. Allen had 17 points but much was from the outside. Clemson also spread out Duke which lead to a bunch of easy baskets for the Tigers. Clemson wins over Duke, not a misprint Duke falls at Clemson just like Louisville did on Sunday

And it ain't even at Lil John! In Greenville SC no less.
 
I would also add without Jefferson they are playing 7 players the entire game. I think the Heels depth may be another "blueprint" to wear the Duke players out over the course of the entire game. Roy's running style will be most important in the matchups.
 
Plumlee in foul trouble they'll have no bigs, Ingram trying to defend the 4 will also get him a couple of fouls. Allen is the volume scorer to watch out for. We should treat him like Nolan Smith and take away the drive as the OP stated since Nolan was nearly unstoppable driving to the hole near the end of his career there. This is not one of their great defensive teams either so if we can get one of their top scorers like Ingram in early foul trouble, we should be able to score enough.
 
Grayson is a tremendous college player no doubt but what Clemson did tonight was to cut off the lane so that Allen could not drive or get fouled where he makes a living from the foul line. Allen had 17 points but much was from the outside. Clemson also spread out Duke which lead to a bunch of easy baskets for the Tigers. Clemson wins over Duke, not a misprint Duke falls at Clemson just like Louisville did on Sunday
Meh on Allen. Decent player but inflated numbers off their dribble-drive shenanigans. But you are correct, Allen constantly drives --- often out of control --- and hopes the zebras bail him out.
And yeah, I've watched dook a few times and they are NOT a sound defensive team by any means. If they get called for even half their fouls they are in trouble.
 
I have had my doubts but I am now convinced Allen is the real thing. I think we will see him contribute in the NBA fairly soon. That being said, I do think stopping Allen is a key to compete against Duke but the bigs for Duke did not contribute like I thought they would after defending Allen.
Plumlee - 7 pts. 3 TO Jeter - 0 pts and fouled out. They obviously miss Jefferson more than I thought they would.

Duke is still going to be a very good team at the end of the year but has some issues at this point. It also goes to show that an away game in the ACC is a tough task in general and not loosing on your home court is extremely important for the final ACC standings.[/QUO
I give you Allen as a talented player but his little temper tantrum on the last foul, throwing the Clemson player to the ground shows the typical dook foolishness. You got beat, take it and go home.
 
I pointed out to my wife the other day that Allen drives to the basket (mostly out of control ) with the intention of getting bailed out.
 
Bailed out?? You can say THAT again Time and time again he gets TOUCH fouls that inflate his numbers .Typical for the doochies ...he is just the latest version of the same old tired act we have been watching for over thirty years
 
Bailed out?? You can say THAT again Time and time again he gets TOUCH fouls that inflate his numbers .Typical for the doochies ...he is just the latest version of the same old tired act we have been watching for over thirty years
Yep. They used to do it a lot with Reddick and last year with Winslow and Jones (especially Jones) --- made me ****ing sick how he'd lunge into a defender and flop and most times they'd give him the damned call, (and make no mistake, you lurking dookies, it is the WRONG call by rule) and if they didn't give him the call the Rat would go apoplectic and browbeat the zebras. That chicken-sh**, cheating-a$$ tactic STOLE the national championship game from a better and deserving team. :mad: Travesty and a disgrace to the game of basketball.
F*** them. Good on ya, Clemson!
 
Yep. They used to do it a lot with Reddick and last year with Winslow and Jones (especially Jones) --- made me ****ing sick how he'd lunge into a defender and flop and most times they'd give him the damned call, (and make no mistake, you lurking dookies, it is the WRONG call by rule) and if they didn't give him the call the Rat would go apoplectic and browbeat the zebras. That chicken-sh**, cheating-a$$ tactic STOLE the national championship game from a better and deserving team. :mad: Travesty and a disgrace to the game of basketball.
F*** them. Good on ya, Clemson!
Wow Gary, tell us how you really feel!
Funny thing is though, I feel the same way.
I will pull you up though, your post makes no mention of the b.s "whiplash" move.
 
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Grayson flails around on the slightest touch or impact of another player. He was dribbling around a screen and we were watching him just lose control and throw his head out like he'd been hit by a Peterbilt. You never see UNC players with theatrics like that. It's embarrassing.
 
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Grayson flails around on the slightest touch or impact of another player. He was dribbling around a screen and we were watching him just lose control and throw his head out like he'd been hit by a Peterbilt. You never see UNC players with theatrics like that. It's embarrassing.
It truly is. If one of my players had ever done that he'd be sitting next to me for a while. Yet K condones it and actually rewards it --- SMDH. Some fine example for young players, huh?... :rolleyes:
 
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Yeah Tyus did that neck whip a ton and Grayson does it way too much, it's just annoying now and disingenuous. I can't really see anyone condoning it and it's so blatant man.
 
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I watched just a bit and in what I saw it was a second half on an inbounds under the basket, and that little boy, what's his name, Allen, was bodying his man in the lane, ref goes over tells the to cut it out , ref walks off and he's back at it, only he's acting as if the Tiger player is shoving him a bit more...that ethical failure of a coach teaches this stuff...
Dook is sorely over rated even with Jefferson back.
I think the OP is right, spread them and run 'em...
 
It truly is. If one of my players had ever done that he'd be sitting next to me for a while. Yet K condones it and actually rewards it --- SMDH. Some fine example for young players, huh?... :rolleyes:

I noticed Bryce Alford do it a few times during our win over UNC. Looks light it all started with Knight if Alford and K are teaching it. Disgusting
 
Run him off the 3 point line and force him to go left and never let him spin back to his right. Didn't need the Clemson game for that to be known.
 
Yep. They used to do it a lot with Reddick and last year with Winslow and Jones (especially Jones) --- made me ****ing sick how he'd lunge into a defender and flop and most times they'd give him the damned call, (and make no mistake, you lurking dookies, it is the WRONG call by rule) and if they didn't give him the call the Rat would go apoplectic and browbeat the zebras. That chicken-sh**, cheating-a$$ tactic STOLE the national championship game from a better and deserving team. :mad: Travesty and a disgrace to the game of basketball.
F*** them. Good on ya, Clemson!

Duke players are taught this, you see it every season, add drama to a no call and K will work the refs to the point they will give duke the call many more times than not. When you play duke you just have to accept this or else it gets in to your head, exactly what K wants it to do. K wants defenders to give his players that extra bit of space that allows them to drive by and he baits the refs in to being his allies.

The problem this duke teams has is the same that Ky has this season, the one & done can be high reward but it is as well high risk. High risk in that you are forced to replace your one & done star talents with similar one & done star talents every season, if you miss one or 2 then things can fall apart rapidly. Neither Skal nor Jeter have lived up to the hype for their programs, that is important because they were both key big men from this recruiting class and so far both are BUSTERS.

When Jefferson went down for duke they lost their by far most experienced front court guy, not like he was a game changer by any accord but he was a guy that should have been able to settle down that inexperienced front court. Huge problem now is k has not played his bench, the rust from Plum3 shows, Obi may as well dress in a suit as sweats. They are now totally guard driven, no front to back court balance, they go 7 deep, 1 guy picking up foul trouble sinks them. Ingram picked up his 3rd just before half time and finished with 1 point in the second half?

The dukies have to beat you with BOTH taking and MAKING a lot of treys and the occasional drive looking for the foul call because they get nothing inside from their bigs. Allen and Ingram want to put the ball on the floor and try to drive on you, take away Allen's right hand on the drive and he gets in to trouble. The one that concerns me is kennard, he is a jump shooter and can be deadly but he is not overly athletic, more of a spot up jump shooter, can't give him clean looks. Ingram is talented but I don't think I want my power forward putting the ball on the floor 30ft in front of the rim and trying to drive against guards.


W@E all know that by the time we face them they will be playing much better but this particular duke team does not seem to have much of a higher ceiling. Jefferson back would help them but Jefferson has never been a game changer. His experience gave them more than jeter gives them for sure but not like he was a all acc first teamer by any measure.
 
Without the refs being so easy to fool, Allen is an average player to me. I don't see any way he can be successful in the Pros with that weak flaccid neck move. He is athletic, but one dimensional, and defenders are too good not to take away his only move. I hated him, but RedDick is 10x the player than Allen. (he is better away from the evil one's influence) Who woulda thunk it, but puke is dependent on Jefferson to be successful!

puke will be good due to the rat king's chops, but they are not built for the long haul and they don't have the depth to stay with us!
 
Run him off the 3 point line and force him to go left and never let him spin back to his right. Didn't need the Clemson game for that to be known.

yep, take away Allen's right hand and he isn't nearly as potent. That is what Ky did early season, played him to spin to his right and drive and try to finish amoung the trees. It got comical, his stuff git blocked time after time, you could see it on the Ky players faces, what the heck is he thinking, does't he know we are waiting on that? LOL
 
Hey, did Clemson beat duke AND crash that dukie web site? I went over this morning to enjoy a good ole melt down and their site has changed? Didn't see a free board so I could enjoy the melt down? What up wid dat?

At least the wuffies left their site up so we could enjoy their melt downs...LOL
 
yep, take away Allen's right hand and he isn't nearly as potent. That is what Ky did early season, played him to spin to his right and drive and try to finish amoung the trees. It got comical, his stuff git blocked time after time, you could see it on the Ky players faces, what the heck is he thinking, does't he know we are waiting on that? LOL
College teams with any type of shot blocking are going to give K and his boys issues especially if the perimeter defense can funnel those guys into the shot blockers because their is little offensive production inside for them to dish off to. I don't know if they are significantly better then say Michigan. Both similar teams. They will get some boost when Jefferson comes back but not enough for them to not be a one dimensional team offensively.
 
As several have said, the blueprint I saw to beating dook is to get Ingram and Plumlee in foul trouble and then just pound the ball down low. That Nnoko kid made them look foolish at points last night. Brice and Hicks will have an absolute field day against them, assuming they don't get into foul trouble themselves. And we know K is probably already in the refs ears for that game letting them know they'll be looking for new employment if they foul out the dook bigs before the UNC bigs.

And ya, the Allen whiplash move is an embarrassment to the game. There's no way the dookies actually try to defend that jokester move, right? He learned well from Tyus, and I saw Matt Jones has been taking notes as well. He straight up dove into a defender. whiplashed sideways, and inexplicably did not only not pick up a charge, but actually got an and 1 - I think that was a little over halfway through the 2nd half.
 
Duke is missing Jefferson for sure especially since Jeter seems to be on a very slow learning curve. But they also suffer from inadequate PG play. That Thornton kid looks like a child that's simply not ready to play ACC ball. I'm sure he'll get better but I don't really see too much growth for him this year. By his junior year, he'll probably be a pretty good player. But right now, they rely on a volume shooter (Allen) to do too much. Allen can score, but he's not much of a defender or a guy that makes plays for other guys. There are some players that have more value than what you see in a box score. Allen is the opposite.
 
Wow I thought our board was bad after a loss but the Duke board is pretty funny too The Duke board reading is excellent not just after a loss but when you need to take a serious dump.
 
The key to beating dook never changes. You have to be up by at least a dozen so that when the Zebras give them 10 points, and they will, you still win. Take the refs out of the equation down the stretch.
To your point I only saw the highlights of the last couple possessions of last nights game. Clem up 3 and two Clem guys firmly set to get and offensive rebound to seal the deal. Some Dookie flies on out of nowhere sending the two Clem guys with proper rebounding position flying like bowling pins. No call play on and now it's 5 on 3 in favor of the dookbags for a potential game tying shot. Or maybe s game winning 4 pointer if a Clem guy is on the neighborhood of s dookbag 3 point shooter kicking his leg out. Sickening. But you're right on about how much they get bailed at end of games. Especially when their lack of depth burns them and they are gassed and can't hang with deeper better stamina more athletic teams
 
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"Refs" let the rush in and shove from behind go uncalled most of the time. Texas used that all game, and specifically used it to get their last two shots after they missed the initial attempts. They made their 2nd (illegally gained) try on both of those last 2 possessions for the "win".

Ima be honest, I pretty much despise refs in general.
 
What a bunch of low information posters on that site. They seem to detest Gary and Dave, who both know more about basketball thàn their whole fanbase combined. Seems I'm not too popular either. Of course with Mods like dookiejay, the inmates pretty much run the asylum. Being disliked by that group is a compliment.
Damn, we must be doing something right... now I feel like we're contributing to the betterment of society :cool:
 
God those doochie fans are just well pathetic. I have been saying this for years and years , most know very little about the game and are caught up in the cult that's Vader and his death grip on that program.... they are always good for a laugh.
 
God those doochie fans are just well pathetic. I have been saying this for years and years , most know very little about the game and are caught up in the cult that's Vader and his death grip on that program.... they are always good for a laugh.
I made it two pages into the THR thread and had to stop. That's just sad.
 
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