Sure. So let's wait and see what we get out of him over the next couple of years.
For the Fedora haters - Which ACC coaches would you swap him with?
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Sure. So let's wait and see what we get out of him over the next couple of years.
I am in full agreement here. With all the NCAA mess behind him, the schools apparent effort to fix/support football, and some of the recruiting trends I expect 6-7 wins next year followed by 8-10 wins each of the years after. 3 years will be a good barometer of what we have.
If UNC applied that same logic and 'patience' to basketball, UNC basketball history would be far closer to that of UGA, or even Auburn, than UNC.
Your fear of what coach UNC could get as replacement fits hand in glove with the willingness to tolerate back to back to back to back losing seasons.
If we fired Fedora for the epic collapse, then coaches who burn to win and want a shot in a P5 league would be intrigued. The coaches who would be upset, like little girls, would be the ones too soft and goofy to ever have chance to take on Nick Saban and defeat him.
If your offered head football coach is too timid to take the job unless he is assured that a 3 win season will NOT get him fired, then the guy you want to hire as HC is a puss and anything but a winner. And that makes you stupid as busted rocks for wanting him.
Are you under the impression that we played with only 65 or 70 scholarship players in 2017 because of NCAA sanctions? Were we coming off a 3 year bowl ban that truly crippled recruiting?
Based on the 2018 schedule what about a 6-6, or even 7-5, record would be almost halfway impressive?
The first 3 years were the good barometer of what we had in Fedora.
My guess is that Fedora is too good to have 3 consecutive non-winning seasons. But he could have 5-7, 6-6, 7-5, or 3-9, 6-6, 7-5. And that equals mediocrity.
I know- we burn through basketball coaches like crazy.
I don't view Carolina football as an independent entity and I think the coach of Carolina football (and every other sport) has more responsibilities than just winning football games.
Other than a coach taking over a very bad situation - say, the team has had 5 consecutive losing seasons, which means TOTAL rebuilding is required - how many coaches ever have had back to back losing seasons, each at least 2 games under .500, and then turned that program around to win a Major conference championship?
It is far from easy to recover from bad losing seasons, unless by 'recover' you mean a 7-5 record.
And perhaps even more now than during the Bunting years, I think a large number of UNC football fans would be thrilled to take 7-5 every year.
How many years total should Fedora be given to accomplish each of the following:
1. Beat an SEC team, even one with as few as 3 wins total.
2. Beat a P5 OOC that finishes with a winning record.
3. Beat a P5 OOC that finishes ranked.
4. Beat a P5 in a bowl.
5. Win back to back bowls.
6. Win at least 8 games for 3 consecutive seasons.
7. Win the Coastal in at least 2 of 3 seasons, or win the ACC championship.
Until such time as he accomplishes all of the above, Larry Fedora is the very definition of mediocre.
What you mean is that Fedora in his 1st season, with a completely inherited team that was coming off 4 consecutive winning seasons, won 8 games (just like Butch Davis's final 3 seasons). And because the Coastal was perhaps its weakest ever, UNC ended in a 3-way tie for 1st.
And then he followed that team with a 6-6 regular season, which climaxed with a bowl win over nonP5 Cincinnati. And he followed that with another 6-6 regular season, which ended 6-7 after a 19 point bowl loss to lowly Rutgers.
That is far from an impressive 3 year stretch.
Not a hater of Fedora. Just hate a good portion of his results. He’s underachieved in 3 out of 5 seasons (with 1 free pass season, 2017, due to injuries).
I’d gladly trade for Richt, Dabo, Cutcliffe, Jimbo, Petrino and likely, Fuente. That doesn’t sound like “that” many, but it’s a weak field to begin with considering the lack of top 15 programs in the ACC. That says a lot.
I’d gladly trade for Richt, Dabo, Cutcliffe, Jimbo, Petrino and likely, Fuente. That doesn’t sound like “that” many, but it’s a weak field to begin with considering the lack of top 15 programs in the ACC. That says a lot.
To be fair fsu had a down yr but make no mistake they are a top 10 program not a top 15 Miami is a top 20 do the profile is rising, but I see what you are saying.
2011 was 7-6, but don't let facts get in the way of your narrative. So he improved that team in total wins and wasn't given a chance for a bowl. The offense was clicking and humming toward the end of the yr, too bad no opportunity to use those weapons in the bowl. Coin-flip, but could've ended with 9 wins in 2012 if given the chance.
2013 was disappoiting, BUT 2014 was riddled with lame-duck recruiting, guys transitioning due to academic issues, all kinds of crap. Not much defensive talent on that team, O was pretty young. Next yr was dynamite though, yeah?
2013, 2014 were bad yrs, can't defend that, but Fed turned things around with his own guys for 2015. He needs to win some games and/or beat the spread this year to prove he's the right man for the job.
I'd trade Fed for Richt, Dabo, Jimbo, Petrino and probably the guy from Wake before going with Cutcliffe. Still not sure about Fuente since his offense hasn't been impressive yet.
I assume you feel he underachieved in 13,14, so do you feel he underachieved in 2016 or 2012?
2012 could've easily been a 9 win team given the chance for a bowl. We had that massive OL, first yr players like Quinshad were coming on late, etc.
And Gio missed just two games that yr, both were losses (wake and ranked Louisville). With him we lost just two, that's also why I feel a 9th was likely.
That's a question to ask the people who thought Withers was a 1st rate DC.
As Withers routinely lost 4th quarter leads (which is the most damning stat for a DC), I saw him as a liability to the program.
So Fed matched Butch's best win total
despite one less game and surpassed withers... And broke O records doing it, so what's your point about that 2012?
Aside from too many penalties, the O was awesome that yr (compared to all previous UNC offenses). D was playing walkons and guys that were undersized...
My point about 2012 is that it was what we had been seeing recently - nothing better.
What makes 2012 largely meaningless in any case to laud Fedora is that the next 2 years he had 6-6 regular seasons.
Here are the meaningful questions
How many years total should Fedora be given to accomplish each of the following:
1. Beat an SEC team, even one with as few as 3 wins total.
2. Beat a P5 OOC that finishes with a winning record.
3. Beat a P5 OOC that finishes ranked.
4. Beat a P5 in a bowl.
5. Win back to back bowls.
6. Win at least 8 games for 3 consecutive seasons.
7. Win the Coastal in at least 2 of 3 seasons, or win the ACC championship.
Of course he went 6-7 and 7-6, he was left walk-ons for LBs, had to boot a ton of defenders (Underwood, Webb, Heaven, JJ Patterson, Darius Lipford, Heaven, Ellerbe ) due to academic issues (due to scandal-driven spotlight). Koenning had nothing left to work with personnel-wise. Despite a great offense, the D didn't have good personnel. I didn't like Koenning, but his D has been fine elsewhere.
How many more yrs? 2 more. The upcoming 5th yrs are the last of the sanction-restricted classes. So in this injury-riddled 2017 the RS-Jr, Sr, and 5thyrs were all sanction-restricted (limited to 20). Everyone accept the true frosh in 2018 came under the thread of more sanctions, so there are people here that were probably third or fourth on the wish list, but Fed has enough to field a good team.
What does 2 more years mean? We've had one Faithful in Fedora acknowledge that he would not definitely be on the new coach wagon until Fedora has 4 consecutive losing seasons. Does your '2 more' mean that you would support replacing Fedora if he has 3 consecutive losing seasons?
Or, perchance, are you saying that if Fedora has not completed a majority of my list within the next 2 seasons, he should be fired?
That latter is the stance that is required for UNC football to stop being mediocre. We are mediocre because we accept mediocrity.
Looking at our schedule, we could've gone undefeated in 2017, then undefeated in 2018 and we wouldn't meet half of your objectives since we don't play any sec, and since cal wasn't ranked (or no winning record) and since we'd probably wind up facing a non P5 like ucf in a bowl. Thus two undefeated seasons wouldn't satisfy your myopic standards. We would win 5 thru 7 and that's it.
^Good question. My subjective side says we need more good wins and fewer bad losses, more post-season rankings. Take 2016 for example, the UGA gm and dook losses were really bad, while I didn't feel the ncsu or Stanford (we were underdog and barely lost) gms were really bad losses. Duke we blew a lead and just stank, and same w uga. But there were a bunch of great wins that yr. So in my opinion 2016 was a fun, positive yr despite bowl loss, sec loss, and the lack of other objective metrics in woad's list.
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There were lots of highlights in 16 but for me it was a disappointing year. We were loaded with talent on offense and stumbled down the stretch. Taken in isolation 16 probably wasn't bad. But I'm looking at it from a program perspective when I say it was disappointing. We were coming off a big year in 15 and I thought we had a great opportunity for another Coastal championship and double digit win season. To really move to the next level we need to string together some double digit win, Coastal championship seasons. We are capable.
What your answer means is that Fedora has failed to accomplish such things thus far.
And that means he has been high mediocre over all.
So how many years as HC should it take Fedora to win at least 8 games for 3 consecutive years? Crum accomplished that in 4 seasons, and then made it 4 consecutive. And that was with an 11 game regular season. And Crum still got fired 4 seasons later, as UNC's all time winningest coach - which he still is.
Crum became mediocre. We hoped he would take the step that Danny Ford took at Clemson; instead, he took a step back. My guess at the time was that if Crum had stayed, we might gone 7-4 in 1988, and almost certainly would have won at least 5. Mack Brown was 1-10, with half a team that clearly pined to be playing Crum and Mack himself often seeming to be a deer in the headlights on a new level as HC.
But the firing of Crum was correct. He was never going to get UNC football to the Promised Land.
Yeah, it was a step back. Every gm was desti
I think you are misreading. What it means is that in 2017 and 2018 it is impossible, GIVEN THE SCHEDULE , even UNDEFEATED, to meet your criteria across those two yrs.
Extrapolate and see that your objective criteria doesn't reflect the only options for success, since UNDEFEATED would be successful.
Exactly.
When you are trying to build a program, and you struggle through a pair of 6-6 regular seasons, and then everything seems to click for a season, a downturn the following season must necessarily be a bitter pill to swallow. Because that downturn will be relived as a negative turning point if the season following it is even 1 game worse than it was.
Your ending declares that you think UNC football can be at the top of the heap. And you know what it takes.
We will never get there if we keep a coach who flounders around, his fans coming up with a series of excuses for his failures to get the program over the hump.
1 season of 9 Ws over 1A teams, with no W over a team that finished ranked, is not over the hump.
Dood, we finished TENTH in the CFP that season.
We BEAT the spread vs Stanford who finished THIRD nationally in the final AP poll.
I understand that you're salty about Marquise winning 11 straight games, but you aren't a UNC fan if you are trying to say 2015 wasn't special. TENTH!
Woad, I said we are capable not that I know what it takes. I wish I did but I'm just voicing opinions like everyone else. I do think we MUST address our defensive issues and quit playing like we're in Conference USA. I have faith that our offense will rebound if any of the QBs are good (that's a TBD IMO). I don't see us doing anything to change our defensive woes and that's a concern. Special teams have been a strength and I expect that to continue. Game management and in game adjustments must improve (as do penalties).
I think we are capable because I don't think the bar is that high. Miami is the only team that appears to be strong in the Coastal. They had a good year and a good recruiting year but we'll see. Maybe they burn hot and fast. VT, GT, Duke, Pitt, UVA - none of these are teams we shouldn't be able to beat. And other than Clemson and maybe FSU (who knows moving forward) - there's nobody in the Atlantic I would be scared of.
I think we are capable because I don't think the bar is that high. Miami is the only team that appears to be strong in the Coastal. They had a good year and a good recruiting year but we'll see. Maybe they burn hot and fast. VT, GT, Duke, Pitt, UVA - none of these are teams we shouldn't be able to beat. And other than Clemson and maybe FSU (who knows moving forward) - there's nobody in the Atlantic I would be scared of.
I am not misreading. I am pointing out that 2018 is not Fedora's 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd, or even 4th year at UNC. It is his 7th. In 6 seasons, he has failed to accomplish the kinds of things that would mark him as having made significant improvement in the health of the program.
Yes, being undefeated during the 2018 regular season would be a great thing. But if that team then were to lose the ACC Championship and then lose the Orange Bowl, and then finish the 2019 season 7-6, the undefeated 2018 regular season would have been ephemeral: it would not have produced something lasting.
But none of that is the reason you raise the impossibility of being undefeated in 2018. You do that to avoid making any specific statements about what you think Fedora should accomplish in order to remain.
I doubt many of the most Faithful in Fedora would sign on to that. That would mean an average of 8.5 Wins. A pair of 8-4 regular seasons with a bowl win to cap one of them is not that impressive. But how many Faithful in Fedora truly believe he can pull it off? We've already seen on here the excuses made pre-season.
I think that if we finish 6-7 this fall, virtually 100% of the Faithful in Fedora will remain devout, so devout that they will refuse to lower themselves to make any case for the man they have faith is the best, the only, choice for UNC football HC.
I am confident that even if we finish 4-8, many Faithful in Fedora will be asserting it is ridiculous to even think we need to make a change.
I can't judge a coach on something like openers. For next decade he could lose every opener then go undefeated til losing an ny-6 bowl game, finishing top 10 and I'd be thrilled every yr.
If he loses to USuCk again then I'm going to be pissed. Reasonably I think we should see 7-9 wins next year. Nine being optimistic, but anything less than 7 putting Fed on the immediate hot seat. We have at least two really good running backs ready to go for next year, and plenty of guys ready to compete for the QB spot. That should allow for a fairly quick turnaround.
In 2019 I'd like to see 9+ regular seasons with a win against USuCk. More importantly though, I really want to see an awesome incoming freshman class thats loaded with four star talent with a five star or two thrown in too.
In 2019 I'd like to see 9+ regular seasons with a win against USuCk. More importantly though, I really want to see an awesome incoming freshman class thats loaded with four star talent with a five star or two thrown in too.
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