Heels vs Cavs Game Thread

[gteeitup]

Several of us have been clamoring for Fortin or Ruder to get some PT. Why they haven’t, only Fed knows.

I love Eliott, he makes the most of his limited skills. But he is just too limited to have much success at the D1 level.

As for Fed’s answer, he’ll review the film and not change a damn thing.

i know it’s been mentioned, but the red shirt rule allows this even if the position doesn’t have a clear number one.

has it not been asked?

is it possible he’s worse than elliott?...i just want it asked.

without adding another game, there are four left...it makes zero sense not to play a qb if you’re looking for one...i believe elliott is leaving, so this coach or the next one needs to play guys.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Several of us have been clamoring for Fortin or Ruder to get some PT. Why they haven’t, only Fed knows.

I love Eliott, he makes the most of his limited skills. But he is just too limited to have much success at the D1 level.

As for Fed’s answer, he’ll review the film and not change a damn thing.

You realize Fortin started at VT after Chazz went down, right?

 

[WoadBlue]

i know it’s been mentioned, but the red shirt rule allows this even if the position doesn’t have a clear number one.

has it not been asked?

is it possible he’s worse than elliott?...i just want it asked.

without adding another game, there are four left...it makes zero sense not to play a qb if you’re looking for one...i believe elliott is leaving, so this coach or the next one needs to play guys.

Elliott has shown to anyone paying attention that while he cannot be a star QB, he can control the ball and move the team. Many people will see that Elliott has been held back at least as much by UNC coaching (starting with Fedora's fetish to have the QB be THE star run-jump athlete, whose athleticism wins games) as by his built in limitations. Elliott will have options to go elsewhere as a 5th year SR.

But that does not mean he will go. Elliott might even be loyal to Fedora if Fedora stays, and he may well be so loyal to teammates and the school that he will not want to leave under a new HC.

I assume Fortin will not play anymore. I do want Ruder to play. Elliott is far from ruining our chances, but this program needs to see something more of young players.

 

[tarheel0910]

Elliott has shown to anyone paying attention that while he cannot be a star QB, he can control the ball and move the team.

He can move the ball outside of the red zone. He can't get us the touchdowns we need. The two plays he came in for during the first half of the VT game are a great example. We were driving down the field with some momentum. When he came in the drive stalled out.

 

[Archer2]

You realize Fortin started at VT after Chazz went down, right?

Of course I do. I watched the game. You're just trying to play devil's advocate to everything I say. You can't admit that you were wrong to continually promote Fed when it was obvious to most of us that he isn't the answer to our problems. He is the problem. Just like Fed, a day late and a dollar short.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Of course I do. I watched the game. You're just trying to play devil's advocate to everything I say. You can't admit that you were wrong to continually promote Fed when it was obvious to most of us that he isn't the answer to our problems. He is the problem. Just like Fed, a day late and a dollar short.

I’m just pointing out where you are wrong is all. Don’t post inaccurate stuff to further your agenda and you will rarely hear from me.

 

[Archer2]

I’m just pointing out where you are wrong is all. Don’t post inaccurate stuff to further your agenda and you will rarely hear from me.

Promises, promises.

 

[WoadBlue]

I’m just pointing out where you are wrong is all. Don’t post inaccurate stuff to further your agenda and you will rarely hear from me.

And if Surratt had not gone down?

I think Fedora anointed Surratt as his next backyard football QB hero and intended to play him come Hell or high water. He went hot after a grad transfer QB because he realized that Surratt as a RS froish would require an offense dumb down at least as much as Marquis Williams required as a 3rd year Soph when Renner went down. Fed's plan then was to play Brandon Harris a year, maximizing his athleticism that Miles had not, and then give the keys to Surratt for 3 seasons.

But Harris was as bad as I knew him to be, and Surratt was nothing more wild athleticism - brilliant open field running and not much less, plus the dumbed down playbook. Fed did not intend to give either Elliott or Byrd game time until Surratt got hurt. The injury forced Fed's hand.

I think that this year Fed intended to use Surratt no matter how erratic his play, no matter how dumbed down the playbook had to remain. But the suspension messed up that genius plan. I think the offense looked totally uncoached vs Cal and nearly as uncoached vs ECU precisely because the plan had been to play Surratt and base the offense on his open field running, and the coaches had not adjusted yet to reality.

If Surratt had not gotten injured, I think Fedora would have played him after the Miami game as much as he could have gotten away with. So I think Fortin got to play only because Surratt was injured.

And I think that Fedora is deluded enough to think that if only he can get Kelly Bryant next year, then he'll rack up 9 or 10 Ws and save his job. And if Ruder were to start playing now and look very promising, then Spring ball would be anything but a coronation for Bryant, who is going to demand a starting job.

 

[ticket2ride04]

And if Surratt had not gone down?

I think Fedora anointed Surratt as his next backyard football QB hero and intended to play him come Hell or high water. He went hot after a grad transfer QB because he realized that Surratt as a RS froish would require an offense dumb down at least as much as Marquis Williams required as a 3rd year Soph when Renner went down. Fed's plan then was to play Brandon Harris a year, maximizing his athleticism that Miles had not, and then give the keys to Surratt for 3 seasons.

But Harris was as bad as I knew him to be, and Surratt was nothing more wild athleticism - brilliant open field running and not much less, plus the dumbed down playbook. Fed did not intend to give either Elliott or Byrd game time until Surratt got hurt. The injury forced Fed's hand.

I think that this year Fed intended to use Surratt no matter how erratic his play, no matter how dumbed down the playbook had to remain. But the suspension messed up that genius plan. I think the offense looked totally uncoached vs Cal and nearly as uncoached vs ECU precisely because the plan had been to play Surratt and base the offense on his open field running, and the coaches had not adjusted yet to reality.

If Surratt had not gotten injured, I think Fedora would have played him after the Miami game as much as he could have gotten away with. So I think Fortin got to play only because Surratt was injured.

And I think that Fedora is deluded enough to think that if only he can get Kelly Bryant next year, then he'll rack up 9 or 10 Ws and save his job. And if Ruder were to start playing now and look very promising, then Spring ball would be anything but a coronation for Bryant, who is going to demand a starting job.

Why do you hate Black QBs?

 

[sctarheel30]

Where did the thought of Elliott leaving come from? Did I miss something?

 

[JimmyinVA]

i have a hard time discussing the players when fedora is still the coach. it's like re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

 

[Archer2]

 

[midline]

Doesn't really matter at this point. Program is in the tank. Surely Bubba can see it. He must know he has to make a move or he will have a worse problem than folks being upset about the program. Apathy will set in. If it hasn't already. At that point folks just won't care anymore. Then the program is dead in the water.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Doesn't really matter at this point. Program is in the tank. Surely Bubba can see it. He must know he has to make a move or he will have a worse problem than folks being upset about the program. Apathy will set in. If it hasn't already. At that point folks just won't care anymore. Then the program is dead in the water.

Apathy set in long ago. But you don’t make a change just to make a change. Not when at minimum the next guy is making $2MM annually plus the $13MM buyout.

Keeping Fed one more year won’t do irreversible harm. Canning him and missing on the next hire would be catastrophic. It’s a $30MM decision.

 

[riverswe]

there is no irreversible harm scenario, it's just how long it will take to climb out of the hole you've dug. if we make a bad hire it will definitely be a setback. keeping fed another year and winning 2-4 games will also be a setback. guess it gets down to your confidence in fed and how many games he might win next year. him being here is definitely killing recruiting - the 19 class is much worse than normal and that's after one bad season. we can blame it on the coaching turnover but it's foolish to think fed isn't being used against us at this point. almost anyone we bring in will result in an uptick in excitement surrounding the program (if it's a bad hire that excitement will be short lived). we have die hard fans at this point jut giving their tickets away or not showing up.

 

[Archer2]

Are we already having behind the scenes discussions with potential replacements, putting out feelers?

 

[ticket2ride04]

Are we already having behind the scenes discussions with potential replacements, putting out feelers?

Yes.

Bubba is working the phone hard. He will see where things lie at the end of the season.

 

[midline]

Apathy set in long ago. But you don’t make a change just to make a change. Not when at minimum the next guy is making $2MM annually plus the $13MM buyout.

Keeping Fed one more year won’t do irreversible harm. Canning him and missing on the next hire would be catastrophic. It’s a $30MM decision.

Keeping Fed one more year could do a lot more harm and cost even more money. A new coach would give hope to the point that ticket sales and gifts to the program wouldn't totally dry up. Not to mention digging the hole bigger for the next coach. A lot more to the equation than just exactly how much Fedora's buyout is.

 

[tarheel0910]

Keeping Fed one more year could do a lot more harm and cost even more money. A new coach would give hope to the point that ticket sales and gifts to the program wouldn't totally dry up. Not to mention digging the hole bigger for the next coach. A lot more to the equation than just exactly how much Fedora's buyout is.

Giving hope to the fan base isn't guaranteed just because it's a new coach. It could make things worse if it's a bad hire. It won't be an easy decision if Bubba can't get a coach that can generate some buzz.

 

[WoadBlue]

Giving hope to the fan base isn't guaranteed just because it's a new coach. It could make things worse if it's a bad hire. It won't be an easy decision if Bubba can't get a coach that can generate some buzz.

Generated buzz is worth nothing. In the past, before early signing, big generated buzz could help that recruiting class. Not now.

If Fedora is retained, this recruiting class will be ranked 11th to 14th in the ACC, and next year's class could shape up to be worse. Even if Fedora gets us to 8-5 in 2019, the recruiting class will not be very good because HS players and coaches can see the downward trend, just as they know that our D in 2020 will have so little talent that we probably have no hope of being better than a 6 win team.

 

[tarheel0910]

Generated buzz is worth nothing. In the past, before early signing, big generated buzz could help that recruiting class. Not now.

If Fedora is retained, this recruiting class will be ranked 11th to 14th in the ACC, and next year's class could shape up to be worse. Even if Fedora gets us to 8-5 in 2019, the recruiting class will not be very good because HS players and coaches can see the downward trend, just as they know that our D in 2020 will have so little talent that we probably have no hope of being better than a 6 win team.

When I said buzz, I meant the fan base. A new coach doesn't automatically mean increased ticket sales and fan excitement. If fans aren't excited about the hire, it could do even more damage.

 

[uncboy10]

Yes.

Bubba is working the phone hard. He will see where things lie at the end of the season.

Is this premium info or do you have your own inside source? Just curious. That would be good news

 

[midline]

Giving hope to the fan base isn't guaranteed just because it's a new coach. It could make things worse if it's a bad hire. It won't be an easy decision if Bubba can't get a coach that can generate some buzz.

Once again, UNC isn't in a position to hire a big time winner that would create that buzz you are looking for. But at this point, hiring some guy that has a pretty good track record at a middle school would be preferable to keeping Fed around. If they do, they might as well play games at the practice field next year as it would be able to accommodate the fans that would show up quite easily

 

[tarheel0910]

Once again, UNC isn't in a position to hire a big time winner that would create that buzz you are looking for. But at this point, hiring some guy that has a pretty good track record at a middle school would be preferable to keeping Fed around. If they do, they might as well play games at the practice field next year as it would be able to accommodate the fans that would show up quite easily

I'm not saying they need to hire Saban, but hiring someone like Satterfield won't move the needle. Someone like Strong, Kiffin, Brohm, etc. would create some buzz. I don't know if they would even consider us, but that's the type of person we need.

 

[midline]

Forget Brohm. If he would leave Purdue he would have much better opportunities than Chapel Hill. Strong? Nah. He isn't the answer. Kiffen would be good, and would take the gig. And would be the best recruiter

 

[ticket2ride04]

Forget Brohm. If he would leave Purdue he would have much better opportunities than Chapel Hill. Strong? Nah. He isn't the answer. Kiffen would be good, and would take the gig. And would be the best recruiter

Kiffin over Strong? Oh sure.

Is this premium info or do you have your own inside source? Just curious. That would be good news

I have my own sources.

 

[WoadBlue]

i know it’s been mentioned, but the red shirt rule allows this even if the position doesn’t have a clear number one.

has it not been asked?

is it possible he’s worse than elliott?...i just want it asked.

without adding another game, there are four left...it makes zero sense not to play a qb if you’re looking for one...i believe elliott is leaving, so this coach or the next one needs to play guys.

The Ruder 'problem' (as opposed to the Fedora problem with playing a freshman QB) is that he played in western KS. KS HS football is fairly weak, and the more thinly populated parts of the state produce the fewest top players who can get D1 scholarships. Fortin missed almost his entire HS senior season and still arrived in Chapel Hill with more experience than Ruder facing D1 and 1AA level players. Fortin played in GA.

I think Ruder has real potential, more than Elliott. And I think Fedora should play him to see what he can do right now. But Fedora is Fedora.