If you are so billy bad-ass, then why care when the statues are removed because people see them as offensive?
How Long til Silent Sam is Removed (one way or the other)?
- Thread starter UNC71-00
- Start date
I do not hate anyone on a personal level, but I absolutely hate these white supremacy, Nazi, KKK, Skin head idiots that are only in existence to stir up the racial pot. They spew their hate in the name of our God. They do not have my God in their hearts. I think that any hate group that terrorizes the community should be put to rest very quickly. Freedom of speech is one thing, but to blatantly use your hatred to hurt anyone should quickly remove your rights.
I also want to be frank and open minded with this. I am not sure how I would feel about these landmark/statues if I were black. I personally do not correlate the statues with white supremacy. However, if my ancestors were traced back to being slaves and there were stories about them being beaten, killed and raped, I probably would have some feeling that would upset me when I see them and think of what they meant to me.
Last but not least, history can never be changed. Nothing will change that slavery, Civil War, segregation and any other racial issues that have taken place. However, we can help with the future. I have many black friends and I would never hurt any of them deliberately and I am positive that they would feel the same about me. I too have family that can be traced back to the Civil War so I see both sides of the fight. I can say that if done the right way, I have zero problem with the removal of these statues and placing them in a Civil War Museum where you have a choice as to if you want to see them. I know that we are the land of the offended, but I can honestly say that I kind of understand.
Priority #1......shake out internal United States terrorism. That is what these racially motivated hate groups are in my opinion. You can't stop them from acting under the 1st Amendment, but you can sure make life a living hell for them.
Priority #2....The actual issues are from a handful of people, the rest of us need to keep our cool, keep God in our hearts and make a difference in a positive way.
Priority #3......The rioting, looting and vandalism that takes place due to reactions are not to be taken lightly or tolerated. These people should be arrested and handled appropriately.
Priority #4......Let Legislature and State Government figure this whole statue and monument thing. No one should have to guard or remove anything outside of the law.
I also want to be frank and open minded with this. I am not sure how I would feel about these landmark/statues if I were black. I personally do not correlate the statues with white supremacy. However, if my ancestors were traced back to being slaves and there were stories about them being beaten, killed and raped, I probably would have some feeling that would upset me when I see them and think of what they meant to me.
Last but not least, history can never be changed. Nothing will change that slavery, Civil War, segregation and any other racial issues that have taken place. However, we can help with the future. I have many black friends and I would never hurt any of them deliberately and I am positive that they would feel the same about me. I too have family that can be traced back to the Civil War so I see both sides of the fight. I can say that if done the right way, I have zero problem with the removal of these statues and placing them in a Civil War Museum where you have a choice as to if you want to see them. I know that we are the land of the offended, but I can honestly say that I kind of understand.
Priority #1......shake out internal United States terrorism. That is what these racially motivated hate groups are in my opinion. You can't stop them from acting under the 1st Amendment, but you can sure make life a living hell for them.
Priority #2....The actual issues are from a handful of people, the rest of us need to keep our cool, keep God in our hearts and make a difference in a positive way.
Priority #3......The rioting, looting and vandalism that takes place due to reactions are not to be taken lightly or tolerated. These people should be arrested and handled appropriately.
Priority #4......Let Legislature and State Government figure this whole statue and monument thing. No one should have to guard or remove anything outside of the law.
This is an uncharacteristically lame response from you. There is a difference tween tearing something down which was built by slaves vs memorializing a racist.
Good point on this - Priority #4......Let Legislature and State Government figure this whole statue and monument thing. No one should have to guard or remove anything outside of the law.
There are some really positive, great things that Silent Sam represents... so I think lots of education needs to go into these decisions.
Nobody wants a hitler statue, but all humans make mistakes, nobody is infallible, sometimes the good outweighs the bad and people/things deserve memorialization despite some painful attributes.
There are some really positive, great things that Silent Sam represents... so I think lots of education needs to go into these decisions.
Nobody wants a hitler statue, but all humans make mistakes, nobody is infallible, sometimes the good outweighs the bad and people/things deserve memorialization despite some painful attributes.
Because it pains me to watch society devolve into something where whoever whines, bitches, and moans the loudest gets their way. People no longer need to use logic and reason to get things accomplished. The strategy has now become
- Seek out something to be offended by
- Whine about how offended you are
- Get your way
1. I disagree.
2. Stick around, you'll see some more.
You know that Silent Sam isn't dedicated to Carr, right? You're moving the target.
You asked for something I could be offended by as a white but am not, and I gave you an example. There's plaques all over Georgia dedicated to Native Americans. Doesn't offend me whatsoever. It's history.
My thoughts:
1. What is the criteria for removal of a monument? Slave holder? Secessionist? Using that logic, then the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial in D.C. need to be torn down. The train has left the station....
2. I'm probably weird, but I don't like statues at all. It feels like hero worship to me. As much as I revere Dean Smith, I'd never want the University to build a statue of him. Like I said, I'm weird.
3. I'm writing in @botate for President. Loved every word of your poast, brother. Let's put these things in museums and be done with it. As hard as it is for me to understand the offense they supposedly cause, they're not worth driving another wedge into our country.
1. What is the criteria for removal of a monument? Slave holder? Secessionist? Using that logic, then the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial in D.C. need to be torn down. The train has left the station....
2. I'm probably weird, but I don't like statues at all. It feels like hero worship to me. As much as I revere Dean Smith, I'd never want the University to build a statue of him. Like I said, I'm weird.
3. I'm writing in @botate for President. Loved every word of your poast, brother. Let's put these things in museums and be done with it. As hard as it is for me to understand the offense they supposedly cause, they're not worth driving another wedge into our country.
http://www.wect.com/story/36142619/...derate-statues-to-come-down-in-north-carolina
Snow ball effect. Does anyone have balls to withstand the pressure these days
Snow ball effect. Does anyone have balls to withstand the pressure these days
In 2017 we honestly care, I mean HONESTLY CARE if we move statues to a Museum? I think Roy is right. Sit down and have a civil discussion about racism, slavery, etc. with your black friends, neighbors or co-workers that are not out protesting and are just living life like the most of us. Try to look at life with an open mind. I have and I 100% can understand how statues represent something different to them. Key words are open minded. It's easy to stay in our "White" line and say how dumb it is to move them.
Silent Sam is a bit more of a benign monument, in my view. In fact, the guy that made them even made sure of it. Sam has no cartridge box, so he cannot fire his weapon (figuratively, obviously). He intentionally left that off. It's more to commemorate the UNC students that died, I believe.
"Similar to the sculpture Wilson created of an unarmed Union soldier Daniel A. Bean, Wilson created a "silent" statue by not including a cartridge box on the Confederate soldier's belt so he cannot fire his gun. Like the Daniel A. Bean sculpture, Wilson used a northerner--Harold Langlois, a Boston man, as his model.
Wilson created a series of similar statues called the "Silent Sentinels." All were created in the North and then displayed in the South. Like these other statues, Silent Sam is positioned to face north towards the Union, rather than towards the Confederacy."
"Similar to the sculpture Wilson created of an unarmed Union soldier Daniel A. Bean, Wilson created a "silent" statue by not including a cartridge box on the Confederate soldier's belt so he cannot fire his gun. Like the Daniel A. Bean sculpture, Wilson used a northerner--Harold Langlois, a Boston man, as his model.
Wilson created a series of similar statues called the "Silent Sentinels." All were created in the North and then displayed in the South. Like these other statues, Silent Sam is positioned to face north towards the Union, rather than towards the Confederacy."
I have no problem moving the statues to a museum, per se. But does it end with the statues? What about whatever the next thing people find to be offended about?
That would be a great discussion for a civil group. What else offends you? You have to work together to improve. Our overall problem seems to be that we are stuck in the white or black lanes. Not in all areas of life, but are we truly okay with full integration.
I will open up a can of worms. Do you openly have true friends of the opposite race? How do you feel about interracial dating/marriage? Do you worship with different races? None of these questions being answered either way will identify you as a racist. However, it may definitely define if you are stuck in a white or black lane.
Until we can grow enough to be okay with integrated "lanes". We will continue down the same path. Is proving a point that we won't fold for you really worth it? This isn't a "snowflake" situation in my opinion. It's about true feelings that white people may not be mentally able to understand.
I will open up a can of worms. Do you openly have true friends of the opposite race? How do you feel about interracial dating/marriage? Do you worship with different races? None of these questions being answered either way will identify you as a racist. However, it may definitely define if you are stuck in a white or black lane.
Until we can grow enough to be okay with integrated "lanes". We will continue down the same path. Is proving a point that we won't fold for you really worth it? This isn't a "snowflake" situation in my opinion. It's about true feelings that white people may not be mentally able to understand.
Bo, I do not think "true" integration will ever happen, simply due to human nature. To some extent, segregation (i.e. tending to stick with your race in association...NOT segregation as a violent term) is natural. Asians stick with Asians. Blacks stick with blacks. Whites stick with whites. Etc. It's just natural. Human nature dictates it.
And this is not just a white-black thing. Case in point, comedian Kumaji Nanjilani (Silicon Valley)'s new movie The Big Sick. His character is Pakistani and lives in New York City and falls in love with a white girl. Those two share in something beautiful like true love, but meanwhile, his parents (both Pakistani) are not okay with it and keep trying to set him up with Pakistani-descent women. Same with the white woman. Her parents are very hesitant about the arrangement too. It's a comedy, but it highlights a truism about society, which is that we tend to not like those that are different or at least tend to not want to associate long-term (marriage, children) with those are different. Some do, of course. Many do not. Is one more right than the other? IMO, no.
Of course, I do grant you that there are things that, as a white male, I will never be able to truly understand about life as a woman or a black person or as a first-generation American immigrant. But that's just it, we will never truly understand someone of a different race or culture. We can try, but we never truly will.
As far as I'm concerned, you can hate groups or individuals all you want. You have every right to hold hate in your heart. Just keep that hate to yourself and don't act on it or expect others to act on it. I deal with people every day I despise, but I still am civil and cordial to them. It really isn't that hard to get along with people. JMO.
Bro. It's okay to stick to a lane. That doesn't make you a racist. I also don't think it's all white or black. However, when you stop going to a church because a black family joined or if you disassociate from a family member because they date a different race. Then there is a problem. Not to preach or go religious, but it kills me that so called Christians can hold so much hatred and intolerance. I'm speaking of all races. Get your heart in tune and it's easy to get along with others. I'm not going out starting a crusade because I hate how the pockets of idiots on all sides take things to the extreme. Just stating that we all need to improve.
I guess I don't quite get your point then because I've never done any of those things, nor would I ever do those things. Plenty do, though, and that should be their right as long as no crimes are committed.
Plenty of science and psychology says it's a "natural" thing.
Basically, you live in the best country in the world, so STFU, get along, and keep your bullshit to yourself.
Depends on the person and how much they know about the statue.[/QUOTE]
Let's go with the average person with average knowledge.
My point is that if you are only in your white or black lane you will never understand or see the others point of view. You tend to be stuck in that zone and when something in the "real world " takes place you cannot deal with reality. I'm reading all the remarks on social media about this subject and I am ashamed at how ignorant most people are. How does MLK offend white people where there come back is that we must tear down all MLK statues as well? Dumb!
That's just it. People are looking for reasons to be offended.
While I'm at it.....I'll hit up on ignorance at a different level as well. If anyone really thinks that our President had anything to do with this, they are beyond ignorant. He screwed the pooch with his response, but damn! Give the man a break. He's not the monster that he's portrayed as being. DUMB!!!
Bingo. That's what some in this country are about. And very sadly it's a minority on both sides. The media is to blame for much of this imo. The vast majority of Americans are decent folk that interact daily and get along great. Damn we have come so far as a country. I will stop at that. JMO
- I openly have friends of different races. I'm white, and friends that are black, Asian, Latino.
- I'm perfectly fine with interracial marriage. In fact my sister (white) is engaged to a Latino guy who I like and have no problems with their relationship.
- N/A, because I don't "worship". I was born Catholic, I still maintain strong spiritual beliefs which I've detailed on this board before, but no longer identify with a religion. I've dated an Asian girl, a couple Jewish girls, etc. One of the Jewish girls' family was displeased I wasn't Jewish, which eventually caused our breakup. I could have whined and been offended, but I chose to move on with my life instead.
It's not proving that we won't fold, for me. It's more that I don't want to see making a big deal out of nothing and whining til getting their way, to be rewarded. Same reason why I wouldn't give a 3 year old dessert before dinner just because they cried enough for it.
Uh, were all native Americans violent or hate-filled? If not, your example still seems vague. Are you referring to a Cherokee statue memorializing a specific group of torturers or just Cherokee people in general? Get where I'm going?
Considering Silent Sam (the topic of this thread) is a fictional character made to represent a "people" in general, I'd say it's on the same wavelength.
I guess on some level, people might be looking for something to be offended by. Some people definitely are.
But, there will always be something else that needs to be addressed. I say that not in a sarcastic or frustrated way. It's never supposed to be totally fixed and perfect. It always needs fixing.
But, there will always be something else that needs to be addressed. I say that not in a sarcastic or frustrated way. It's never supposed to be totally fixed and perfect. It always needs fixing.
Correct. It will never be "fixed" but we still live in the very best country on earth and it's not even close.
OK- I'm about to call the FBI and file a kidnapping report. You need to bring Strum back immediately or else I will get Chick to stalk you, whoever you are.
But to your point, PseudoStrum, you are 100% correct. There is always something else. Or alternatively stated, we all have our problems. And I have enough of my own problems without worrying about yours (which for your involve Federal Prison for the abduction of our friend)
It's a great country, no doubt. It's the only one I've ever lived in, so I don't feel any need to declare it better, or the best. It works for me. If someone in Estonia is happy with Estonia, then I'm happy for them, too.
One of my best friends used to be a pro tennis player and he said that if could, he would live in Switzerland. if he couldn't live in America. And the only reason he preferred America is because he was born and raised here... the familiarity. But, he said that Switzerland was, without a doubt, a great place to live and raise a family.
I'm the same guy. Maybe my delivery has gotten more refined.
Silent Sam depicts a Confederate soldier, and many people see images of conf soldiers as signs of racial oppression since that's what they were fighting for. A general img of a Cherokee Indian doesn't represent torture. Wavelength fail.
1- Estonia is a cool place. I had a really cute blonde chick try to pick me up there but as I was happily married and accompanied by my then wife, nothing came of it.
2- I have a cousin (who is quite gay) who lives in Switzerland with his partner and loves it. I'm going to go visit him soon. I also went to Switzerland once and while with my friends and their wives, accidentally stumbled into a gay bar. We got out before anyone could hit on us. There were lots of Tiki torches in that bar, which is ironic given the current state of affairs.
3- I myself would like to emigrate to the Republic of Fukoffya, which is located somewhere in the Caribbean and only accessible by sail boat. But I would like to play the occasional game of tennis once I get there.
Not buying it. And I doubt anyone else here is either.
What's the ransom? I like Strum but I'm also kinda broke at the moment, so don't get carried away.
I don't have time to give a full crash course on the civil war and the confederacy and the fact they were fighting for states rights, and that due to the age-old process of the victors writing the history books the general impression by the uninformed is that it was over slavery. Maybe I'll just tag @TarHeelNation11 as I know he likes taking people to task on that issue. But I will ask if some random southerner getting drafted into the CSA army meant that he was drafted into being a racist? History fail.
Everything in this poast after the word "soldier" is wrong.
Did you know that North Carolina was the last state to secede from the Union? The reason? Compared to Deep South states, N.C. had much fewer slaveholders. Even back then, N.C. was a very contemplative state. Its citizens valued states rights very much but were torn on the merits of slavery. Ultimately, states rights won out and the state seceded and then proceeded to send more soldiers to the war effort than any other CSA state.
Did you know that many, many UNC alumni fought (and died) for the South, including three I can think of off the top of my head who have buildings on campus named after them?
Did you know that, as @Hark_The_Sound_2010 mentioned, that in the later years of the war, the CSA had a ridiculous and very illegal (if going by the U.S. Constitution) conscription policy that forced basically every able-bodied male to fight?
Did you know that many, many, many people who fought for the Confederacy did so for reasons other than slavery? And regardless of why they fought, many Confederate veterans went on to help the country re-form after the war and integrate blacks into free society.
Did you know that Union troops committed myriad war crimes and unspeakable crimes against civilians during the war? Yep, Confederate soldiers did the same as well.
Did you know that both Native Americans AND American settlers committed numerous atrocities against each other? Oh wait....
Apparently you didn't know. I can do this all day long.
Surely, you see the failure of logic in your poastings. On the one hand, you're lumping 100% of Confederate soldiers in as evil racists and therefore Confederate memorials are wrong. On the other hand, you're saying memorials to Indians are okay because only some (i.e. less than 100%) of Indians were mean/murderers/rapists. Honestly, you lost me when you basically stated you're unaware that some Indians committed mass homicide against civilians.
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And my above poast is further getting us lost in the weeds, rather than focused on the big picture. The big picture is what @Hark_The_Sound_2010 @strummingram @UNC71-00 and @Raising Heel have both alluded to: when does it end? There will always be another 'sensitive issue' to address.
As a society, we are getting way too thin-skinned about everything. People need to take a deep breath.
As a society, we are getting way too thin-skinned about everything. People need to take a deep breath.
We should definitely dynamite the **** out of the Lincoln Memorial because Abraham Lincoln himself didn't believe blacks should have the same rights as whites. In an 1858 campaign speech, he said, "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” and then went on to say he did not believe blacks should be able to vote, marry white women, serve on juries, or hold office.
But grrrrr, damn those Confederate soldiers, the only racists that existed in 1861 - 1865 !!!111!!
But grrrrr, damn those Confederate soldiers, the only racists that existed in 1861 - 1865 !!!111!!
Good ole honest Abe is not the person history says he is. Slavery was only a portion of the platform for going to war. Every depiction of that era has white slave owners brutally beating their slaves. THN11, you the man on this subject.
People can find these original publishing's online, straight from the horse's mouth.
We are too thin skinned. I pisses me of that everyone is pisses off.
I love this. You say someone hurt by a symbol of oppression is a whiny bitch, then you whine and bitch about how painful it is that someone might be hurt by symbols of hatred. Which hurts more, your pussy, or the person who has family stories of abuse due to slavery?
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