Wow. So people are simply being dumb if they associate a confederate solidier with racial oppression?
How Long til Silent Sam is Removed (one way or the other)?
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Wow. So people are simply being dumb if they associate a confederate solidier with racial oppression?
I think uneducated or ignorant is a more appropriate term. Surprisingly, not everything is as clear cut as you seem to think it is.
You are an angry man, aren't you?
It would be great if people would choose not to play the victim because each and every one of us has been victimized in some way and when one person claims to be a a victim, the next person will claim to be even more of a victim and on and on it goes.
Or lazy. Or seeking opportunity by claiming victimization.
The vagueness of your posts insinuate that you correlate ALL cherokees
with torture, which is obviously ridiculous and something I assume you don't believe - and i why I think your example shows a lack of empathy or awareness or you are just being argumentative.
100% of confederate soldier images are going to at least partly represent war for slavery to everyone, it was one of the large factors in the war.
Are you going to tell me that 100% of cherokee person images partly represent torture to you?
It is poasts like yours which shows society needs more empathy.
Despite conscription, despite state's rights, despite native american's own institutions of slavery you seem to ignore the fact that a confederate uniform is a sign of racial oppression. Ask most americans what that uniform represents. Ask black people, ask the neo-nazis and white supremists defending certain monuments what the uniform represents to them.
Hilter forced conscription and indoctrinated young minds, but does that mean the Nazi uniform won't represent genocide to people or that people are just sensitive to find make that association?
If you want someone to understand your perspective that the confederate soldiers represent something good and positive in this world (which is a totally legitimate feeling), then you need to try and understand someone else's perspective that a conf soldier might represent racism.
I might argue this is how our country has always worked. Abolition, women's suffrage, civil rights, etc. Those causes could all be characterized as people whining, bitching, and moaning the loudest until popular opinion changed. Maybe not the best comparison -- all of those were issues of equality -- but you get my point.
Who are you addressing here?
Hmm- that's an interesting way to look at it.
So what is the motivation of those doing the whining at the present? I'm really not sure.
Okay. That perspective is simple to adopt as a white, Christian, heterosexual male. It's not hard to argue that minorities/people of color, or non-Christians, or non-heterosexuals, or women/transgenders have had a tougher go of things. Expecting them to STFU and keep their bullshit to themselves isn't a very reasonable request.
I honestly don't know either. Their messaging is unclear, which I think is part of the problem.
What's not unclear was the message of the alt-righters who marched on Charlottesville last weekend. Although they were a coalition of different right-wing groups, some of them have very clearly defined objectives. It was shocking to hear some of them (the supremacists) talk openly about their desire for a white-only nation. You can draw your own conclusions about how they intend to meet that goal.
Maybe I should have went with GFY. That tends to work, at least over here.
I'm lucky or privileged enough to have trouble putting myself in the shoes of someone that might have horrific associations of torture with all Cherokee people. But imagine if that was you, and you have to walk by a Johnny Cash or Elizabeth Warren statue every day while going to the public University your tax dollars and your hard-earned tuition are funding. What would your motivation be?
No, it doesn't. See below, where I've added extra emphasis to a previous poast of mine:
I understand other peoples' perspectives just fine. My point is.... suck it up. It's history. Thus, the Cherokee example.
Also, you finally jumped the shark and went with the comparison of the Confederacy to Nazi Germany, which is the dumbest, laziest, most incorrect comparison that the Left always makes.
Fair enough. I'll admit that I'm a little bitchy about this particular subject. I'm a little confused as to why the people who listen and bow to everyone else's bitchiness don't give my concerns the time of day though.
Another thing I'll say is what I'm bitching about, and "offended by", is something that is happening in the here and now. Not something that happened 150+ years ago long before I, my parents, or my grandparents were even born.
In many cases, I'd say they're uniformed. In your case, when you've been told the truth of the matter multiple times and still continue down that path, then yes, I'd call that being dumb.
Lol. I'll just leave this wikipedia excerpt here:
"Scott Brown, her Republican opponent in the Senate race, speculated that she had fabricated Native American heritage to gain advantage in the job market. Former colleagues and supervisors at universities where she had worked stated that Warren's ancestry played no role in her hiring. Warren responded to the allegations, saying that she had self-identified as a minority in the directories in order to meet others with similar tribal roots. Her brothers defended her, stating that they "grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family's Cherokee and Delaware heritage". In her 2014 autobiography, Warren described the allegations as untrue and hurtful. The New England Historic Genealogical Society found a family newsletter that alluded to a marriage license application that listed Elizabeth Warren’s great-great-great grandmother as part Cherokee, but could not find the primary document and found no proof of her descent."
Nazi uniform and Confederate Uniform have much more in common than Cherokee Indian and torture. I had to go there since Cherokee was the most horrific thing you could dream up.
Did you leave your sarcasm meter next to your blinders? Johnny Cash wasn't cherokee either.
Just kidding regarding the blinders. Your perspective on being "offended" by the here and now of people vandalizing or tearing down monuments is totally valid, i see your side of the coin.
Dude, YOU asked for an example of something that could offend me, a white male, but doesn't, and I gave you one. Drop the Indian thing if it's causing you this much heartache.
And no, the Nazi uniform and Confederate uniform have virtually nothing in common. It's sweeping generalizations borne out of ignorance like that that has society at each other's throats right now. Very few people understand what the hell they're even talking about. This goes for the extremists too. Neo Nazis have no friggin clue what they're talking about or why they're using Nazi symbols as part of their "movement."
One thing which has people at each other's throats is the inability to take someone else's perspective. You can preach history, but doesn't mean huge swaths of americans , unc students, "we the people", don't see a racist commonality in nazi uniforms and confed uniforms.
The swastika was a symbol of good luck til the 1930's. Take that bit of history then go visit New York City with a swastika on your chest and see how well you fare.
It's like talking to a brick wall. You're pretty dead-set in your opinions/views for someone who admitted he didn't even think twice about Silent Sam until like 2 days ago.
The only things they had in common were:
1) They thought that God was on their side (a common thread with every soldier in every army)
2) The White Race was the superior race (For Germany it was the Aryan Race)
Other than that, they were pawns for the handful of people that start, end and profit from every war since the dawn of organized civilizations.
And, truth be told, the soldiers in the German Army and the Rebel Army were just like most soldiers in any army- they wanted to do their duty, look out for their buddies, and hopefully return home mostly intact.
You keep throwing the example of Nazi in the mix. Do you honestly think that every German who wore a uniform believed in all the principles that the Nazis promoted? I would say, no.. Many of them where fighting a war they had no choice in, only to protect their land and property. Yes, atrocities happened. In the same light, not every confederate soldier fought to keep his negroes. History paints pictures based on the victors view.
We have no control over anything that happened then.
We live in America. Even the lowest members of our society live fair. The divide that has been created is sickening. Let me say this, NO ONE has it right. Tree huggers, homos, white, black, republicans, democrats, left, right, KKK, or BLM.
The fault is in all of us. A life of freedom is offered, and we take that away because of extreme views. The divide in this country will never be repaired. The multiple fronts have dug in and use their position to further push for the overthrowing of the other. There is no reason we all can't play in the same sand box
Some even gave their lives and tried to submerge the principles the Nazis promoted:
These guys helped in the Valkyrie plot to assassinate Hitler.
To be clear, I don't believe the comparison of the CSA as being "like Nazi Germany" is accurate at all. Whatever the CSA was, as a society, the USA was an identical society for 80 years prior. So, the USA was like Nazi Germany, if the CSA was, by those standards.
I already made the point above that germany had conscription and young kids were forced to wear their uniform. YET, that nazi uniform is still a sign of racism to most people around the world, just like a confederate soldier is a sign of racism to many people here.
My dad was career military, my grandfather was in Korean War when he wasn't farming here, and I'm guessing forefather's on both sides of my fam were starving, dying and fighting for the south. I could be myopic about this topic, but i'm not.
The confederate soldier is also a point of pride for a lot people, for non-racist reasons (certainly not for me, as my time at UNC is the only time any member of my family has lived in the South to my knowledge). I'd be interested to know the numbers on how many people see/feel pride when they look at the statues, and how many see/feel hate (and by this, I mean those that actually do see/feel hate, not the ones that sympathize that others might feel that way, like yourself).
Again, I couldn't give two shits about a fuggin statue, but does it stop there? What if the next thing is that since Washington and Jefferson were slave owners, people start demanding the dismantling of the Washington/Jefferson monuments, demanding a name change for DC, Washington state, and every town that bears Washington or Jefferson in its name, demanding that we dynamite Mt. Rushmore because it has two racist heads on it. Then what if Japanese-Americans say that memorializing Pearl Harbor commemorates a dark time in their history - and they want it done away with. What do we say to the guy who's grandfather is still laying in the USS Arizona?
I think Newt Gingrich is a POS, which is why I bust out laughing at this incredible burn.
But yet you attribute every confederate soldier to the likes of a racist. I want to ask you a pointed question. Based on your knowledge, what was the civil war fought over. If multiple reasons, then give a percentage of each reason. And show me an image of the confederate flag
No, I don't attribute every confed soldier to the likes of a racist because not all confed soldiers were pro-slavery. There were many black men fighting in grey. I'm saying the confed soldier is a symbol is racism because one of the main reasons for the war was slavery related. Some folks are stating that some monuments were put up specifically as a reminder of oppression rather than a commemoration for those who died, but this is a pretty nasty accusation.
Main reason for the war was economics, just like most wars.
Flag - no idea, don't care.
It is a tough scenario, but STFU or GFY isn't the answer. I don't know... I thought it was weird when airport rd got renamed. First, people need to stop illegally toppling statues and vandalizing them. Silent Sam has been vandolized for years. Second, all parties need to listen to each other's perspectives to realize where they are coming from. Third, leaders need to find some compromise, maybe it can simply be a change to the plaques on some statues which states the values worth memorializing: "In honor of the 321 unc boys in gray fighting for family, state's rights, slow-cooked pork and sweet tea"... i don't know.
You just as well lump all southern white men into that argument rather than confederate soldiers. Society points that we need to hang our head in shame over so called events that took place back then. To be honest, I don't give 2 rats craps about what happened back then. I can't control what they did no more than they are could control me. I am almost certain that those monuments weren't erected to say FU to all the blacks in the world either. Taking pride in the south, being a part of a "rebel"state, and commemorating statues to fallen soldiers is an American right. I respect black people for standing up for their rights, fighting for equality, and getting a fair shake in life. But it sickens me to see people pouring out in droves to denounce such offensive things like a statue of a famous general. How quick would I make the news if I pulled down a memorial of Malcolm x. I bet I would face serious prison time.
And you acknowledge that the image of a confederate soldier reminds people of racism and oppression. I think I will erect a statue of a black confederate soldier. That will confuse the dumb masses
I'd love to see that on a billboard near the 285 beltway.
Might as well put bunch of web cams... Bait for the people that don't want to be civil. And put up a big suggestion/request box for people who do wanna be civil.
It's a point of pride for me, yes, and it has nothing to do with slavery or anything other than the fact that my ancestors fought (and died) for something they believe in, including their beloved state of North Carolina. It's part of history. Take away every statue and change every road name, but it still won't change the fact that North Carolina seceded from the Union. If you can't handle that history, move.
Agree all day long. The media, the Democratic move to the extreme left and right years of a President that threw gas on the fire and here we are. Very sad, considering 90% of this country interact and do great every day. Jmo
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