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How Much Small Ball?

What Would Jesus Do?

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Nov 28, 2010
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How much time per game do you think we'll be playing small ball by, say, the end of January?

Obviously if we have really good upside surprises from a couple of our new bigs, there will be less need to play small ball - although we might still choose to do so against a number of teams.

OTOH, if our bigs don't develop particularly quickly, could we end up play half or more of our minutes in small ball mode? I think so.

My guess, at this too-early-to-know point in time, is that we play 20 minutes of small ball. If that's wrong, I think it will be because we play more small ball, not less.
 
15-20% MAX.

Yeah, I would maybe suggest a lil more but not much, maybe 25% so we can get Theo and Cam in the floor together and still have guys like Joel and Jalek as back court scoring threats. But I would really like our true big on the floor with them to be a rim protector rebounder, hope Huff can fill that role, I think he is more likely to than Manley this season but ya never know.
 
I heard an interview with Joel who said they were experimenting with Theo at the 4 in practice.
 
How much time per game do you think we'll be playing small ball by, say, the end of January?

Obviously if we have really good upside surprises from a couple of our new bigs, there will be less need to play small ball - although we might still choose to do so against a number of teams.

OTOH, if our bigs don't develop particularly quickly, could we end up play half or more of our minutes in small ball mode? I think so.

My guess, at this too-early-to-know point in time, is that we play 20 minutes of small ball. If that's wrong, I think it will be because we play more small ball, not less.

I have no idea, I just wish I had as much time on my hands as you do.
 
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15-20% MAX.

Yeah, I would maybe suggest a lil more but not much, maybe 25% so we can get Theo and Cam in the floor together and still have guys like Joel and Jalek as back court scoring threats. But I would really like our true big on the floor with them to be a rim protector rebounder, hope Huff can fill that role, I think he is more likely to than Manley this season but ya never know.

Im with you here. Im hoping Huffman will be good enough to be the 5 in a small ball lineup where his main job is to hit the boards on the offensive end and get putbacks, while defensively be disruptive, get rebounds and give it to our guards to push it up the floor.

I can see these possibilities:

Joel
Jalek
Cam
Theo
Huffman
Jalek, Joel and Cam will have to let it fly here and score like mad men. This could be a very fun one to watch.

Joel
Kenny
Cam
Theo
Luke
Having Kenny at the 2 here, gives you better perimter D, while also allowing you to have another good rebounder to help out in the paint. I can see this late in games due to experience and Roy having faith in Kenny's defense.

Also, I think Seventh can be effective in a small ball linuep at the 2 also.
 
Yeah, I would maybe suggest a lil more but not much, maybe 25% so we can get Theo and Cam in the floor together and still have guys like Joel and Jalek as back court scoring threats. But I would really like our true big on the floor with them to be a rim protector rebounder, hope Huff can fill that role, I think he is more likely to than Manley this season but ya never know.

[apologies in advance for this too-long exposition]

That's where I started out thinking. Ten minutes of small ball. But the more I thought, the more that didn't work.

Let's start by saying Luke can play 30 minutes. Similarly, let's say Garrison can play 20.

That's more than Luke has ever played. He only played over 20 minutes a few times last season, and never over 25. That doesn't mean he can't give us 30 game-in-and-game-out, but it might be a stretch.

We very seldom see a big give us even close to 20 minutes as a freshman. A few exceptions come to mind - Hansbrough and Wright. Anyone else? And those guys were top-ranked players. None of our bigs is anywhere close to those rankings. Which is to say that maybe Garrison can play 20 or even more. But 20 is pushing beyond what we usually see.

OK. We have 80 minutes to fill without going to small ball. And we just filled 50. Leaving 30.

Does Huff give us 15? Does Sterling give us 10? Does Walker give us 5? If so, we don't need to play any small ball. We might still WANT to play small ball - on the theory that our small ball squad will be better than a team depending on a lot of minutes from Sterling and Walker. But we wouldn't have to if those guys could give adequate minutes in those amounts.

But suppose the real numbers look more like this:

Luke = 26
Garrison = 18
Huff = 13
Sterling = 8
Walker = 3

That actually sounds plausible to me. That's 68 minutes. Leaving 12 out of the 80 we need.

Now that might make you think that we only have to play 12 minutes of small ball. But is that true?

The problem is it isn't a simple mix-and-match calculation.

For example, would you ever want Sterling and Walker on the floor at the same time? I'd say no.

Would you ever want Sterling or Walker to be the single big on the floor with the small ball squad? Again, I'd say no.

Next year, maybe; this year probably not.

The only guys I'd be comfortable with on the floor as the only big are Luke, Garrison and maybe Huff.

So . . . lets divvy up the solo big time like this
Luke = 6 solo minutes, leaving 20 Luke minutes
Garrison = 4 solo minutes, leaving 14 Garrison minutes
Huff = 2 solo minutes, leaving 11 Huff minutes

That accommodates 12 minutes of small ball. But does it give us our best team?

If you don't want Sterling or Walker on the floor with each other or by themselves, then you have to pair them with Luke, Garrison, or maybe Huff. Preferably with Luke, because of the experience and smarts he brings. So let's pair them with Luke. That leaves 9 Luke minutes to match him up with Garrison or Huff.

The end result is that Garrison and Huff play more minutes together than Luke and Garrison or Luke and Huff.

That's why I think we go small more. It gives more time for Luke and Garrison to play together and for either Luke or Garrison to pair with Huff. I think that gives us a stronger team.
 
You are starting to hear leaks that more and more small ball is being seen in practice. Truth is Roy will try to play traditional as long as he can but also knows that teams can and have been very successful by playing small (Villanova) in most years with how the college game is being played. We have the tools to play both ways which will give us great flexibility to match up with a lot of different teams but our challenges in the post prevent us from really having a big advantage that we usually have in being able to dominate the glass. I’m optimistic that at least 2 of our fresh bigs can play and be effective aka rebound and not kill us but we will need some points from them and I just don’t see it right now. I also worry that none of the young bigs will be able to stay on the floor without fouling which can kill continuity and flow on offense. Key early in the season will be for those guys to understand spacing and not get in the way. Hopefully by conference play we will have 1 who we can mostly rely on to help us, with another who can come in and not see a huge drop
Off for us.
 
12-18 MPG of small ball. If we have a lead in late game situations it will be small ball. But keep in mind small ball would have us going say 6'0 , 6'3 , 6'6 , 6'8 , 6'8. Not really that small , just not as much size as we are use to.
 
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Tell you what, let's trade ages and I'll post less. Deal?

(I'm assuming I'm enough older than you to make that a good deal for me.)

I doubt you are older than me, & I really didn't mean it as a wisecrack. I really wish I had as much time as you do to post. I'm jealous.
 
Hopefully by conference play we will have 1 who we can mostly rely on to help us, with another who can come in and not see a huge drop off for us.

Those two will be Brooks and Huffman, in that order. Their job will be to play rudimentary defense without fouling excessively, limit and-ones if they do foul, set good picks, rebound ferociously, and score in close when the opportunity presents itself.

As for the amount of small ball we will play, I'd estimate it to be 10-12 minutes. Roy will try his damndest to play a more traditional lineup with two bigs, even if neither is a true five. If this proves impossible due to none of the freshmen bigs being up to the task, he may be forced to go small more than he wishes.
 
Do you all think we will play two freshman bigs together? If not, then by definition we have to be playing small every minute that Luke sits. There are no other non-freshman bigs. For that reason I see 25 min of small ball at minimum, with possibly 50%+ of the minutes containing a wing player at the 4. It makes no sense to sit Felton so that Huffman can play right?
 
I doubt you are older than me, & I really didn't mean it as a wisecrack. I really wish I had as much time as you do to post. I'm jealous.
An advantage of retirement. I have plenty of other things I could do, and some I should do. But I like UNC basketball.

This is like being back in the old days shooting the breeze in Harry's.

There's an age check for you, by the way.
 
The only thing that bothers me about small ball, which is our best lineup, is that it makes taking 3 bigs last class look really dumb in hindsight.
 
The only thing that bothers me about small ball, which is our best lineup, is that it makes taking 3 bigs last class look really dumb in hindsight.
Well, it increased the odds that 1 or 2 will be able to give us good minutes this year.

Considering that Garrison was the last scholarship given to a big, I'm happy we didn't stop at 2 - since everybody is saying he's the most ready of the bunch.

The real question, imo, is not whether we were dumb this year to get 3 bigs (4, really, counting Walker). We needed to do something to cover the huge hole in our front line. No, I think the question is whether doing so was dumb for future years.

Having all these guys means we don't have many scholarships for high-ranked bigs. Plus, high-ranked bigs may look at us and not see much playing time. So if at least a couple of our frosh aren't diamonds in the rough, and if they don't develop fairly quickly, we could be facing a few years of weakness up front.

That said, I'm going to be optimistic about these guys until I've seen them play several games.
 
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Well, it increased the odds that 1 or 2 will be able to give us good minutes this year.

Considering that Garrison was the last scholarship given to a big, I'm happy we didn't stop at 2 - since everybody is saying he's the most ready of the bunch.

The real question, imo, is not whether we were dumb this year to get 3 bigs (4, really, counting Walker). We needed to do something to cover the huge hole in our front line. No, I think the question is whether doing so was dumb for future years.

Having all these guys means we don't have many scholarships for high-ranked bigs. Plus, high-ranked bigs may look at us and not see much playing time. So if at least a couple of our frosh aren't diamonds in the rough, and if they don't develop fairly quickly, we could be facing a few years of weakness up front.

That said, I'm going to be optimistic about these guys until I've seen them play several games.
That's what I mean.
 
That's what I mean.
I don't think it's a concern, we'll just have to be more selective with top ranked bigs. I don't think a player like Shittu is worried about not playing over our current freshman, with all due respect to them.
 
I don't think it's a concern, we'll just have to be more selective with top ranked bigs. I don't think a player like Shittu is worried about not playing over our current freshman, with all due respect to them.
I hope you are right because I think Shittu could make all the difference next year.

Of course then Roy will be faced with playing a lot of freshman (Shittu, Little, White and maybe even Black).
 
A foreshadowing of more small ball from Theo's interview:

"I love guarding bigs because they think they can just push me around."

You get'em Theo.
 
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