I was Wrong
- Thread starter Kool1234567
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I didn't follow this closely enough and not doing this to rip on you or anything... But you thought Elliot Cadeau was like Ty Lawson as a freshman? Why on earth did you think that? Because they're both small and right handed?
Ty Lawson was built like a tank and had an elite layup game from day 1. Also, his biggest weakness was probably his perimeter shooting and he was a 35% 3PT shooter as a freshman.
How on earth are they similar? Elliot Cadeau is like a million other freshman PGs who can't shoot, lol.
Sorry, not making fun of you. But the comparison took me aback. I thought we were WAY past comparing EC to legit studs. I still can't get over his comparison to Jason Kidd, lol. Even freshman year Jason Kidd was a revelation as a basketball prodigy.
Unreal to me at this point he want even think about shooting the ball…Just watch him…it’s killing us…Guard everyone else and when he drives they block that shot…Coach has to make a adjustment…If not we will hit a slide to end this season…
I place the blame less on Cadeau than on Ryan, RJ, and Ingram. This team is designed for those 3 to consistently hit jump shots. If they don't, someone has to do something above their usual capability.
Weird game today. We're not as deep IMO as other people think. If one of our top 6 is out like they were tonight, it makes a huge difference.
Being healthy is the most important thing in March. This isn't a roster that can withstand an injury to EC, RJ, Ryan, Ingram, Bacot, or Seth IMO. And preferably Withers and Washington don't get hurt either. But especially those top 6 are vital. They must stay healthy.
Hopefully Seth gets healthier. I don't think tonight's loss is a huge deal unless Seth's injury is longterm or affects him longterm. A completely different defensive team without him.
Not at all have I ever compared them but a certain poster said EC had handles that Ty Lawson could never dream of…I will say EC was playing well and if the outside shot came he would get in that Lawson range as a freshman…He has regressed….But I am sure in the quick notes I will hear he played great…Like that other guy should have been starting over Coby White at PG…
I hope so because I love how hard that kid plays…Now it’s like he want even shoot the ball..
Gotcha. I mean, Cadeau is having the typical freshman season. A lot of variance. The good looks really good, the bad looks really bad. I wouldn't even call it regressing. Stacking good games is really hard for freshmen guards, especially in conference play.
Lawson, White, and Marshall were not typical freshmen.
I personally think EC is right on schedule. He just has some significant flaws and those specific flaws gets exploited in today's style of basketball. He has to get better in obvious areas of his game. However, you show me a freshman PG who's lightning-quick, and can get to the basket, but has no idea where his jump shot will end up... I bet I'll show you the vast majority of freshmen PGs in the country.
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Have not looked at the stats but EC has not hit a 3 in 2024…Maybe I am wrong…It’s not helping the team…
Of course not but remember EC is not your typical freshman, he re-classed!
Andrew freaking Platek over Coby at PG.
And doncha know - the only shots EC has ever missed are Hubs fault not ECs. You see, hubs has subbed EC wrong - and that stole all ECs confidence. I’m not making this up - the ol ball coach actually said this.
But on EC the kid works so hard - and Hubert is a great all time shooter. They’re way past the “keep doing what you’re doing and hope to break out of it, hope for the best”.
At this point why haven’t they sat down with EC analyzed how his shot is flat ugly, and tweaked it to give it a better chance of going in? It will need fixed if he ever wants to play pro ball. So why not now?
. Honestly how can it get any worse for him? I know that sounds like a jinx but he’s shooting at lil 10-15% on perimeter shots. How can it get any worse. Nobody else on this team in the top 10 guys shoots that bad.
Should have stayed in his class then…These dudes are getting payed now and a free education…You play like crap you get called out…I support NIL at UNC so his play the last few games has been crap…How are you a 5 star prospect at guard ain’t can’t shoot the ball…They are not even guarding you….
I agree that lack of shooting is one of a player's biggest limitations offensively. But I think that's more of an expectation thing. I know Gary said he had Joel Berry's scoring ability, but he absolutely does not right now. He's a 0 shooter. But there aren't good solutions unless you're comfortable moving RJ to the 1.
This was always one of the potential limitations for this team. And it's a really difficult thing to coach around IMO.
I think they're kind of stuck though. This team's upside is directly linked to Cadeau's development.
He turned 19 in September. Hard to be a 20 year old freshman.
Don’t know what the plus or minus was tonight with RJ running point but it looked better than EC…Even the win against dook we have not looked good the last 3 games…
I agree to a sort, but we gotta play like we did vs dook. Running the ball up the defenses back and playing on instinct in the open court. There's no better way to get EC's swag going. Assisting to open shooters or driving for lay ups in transition.
EC has same birthday as me - Sept 4. I thought that was a great reason to root for him, and like him even more.
I think all we can do is be patient. Remember that I think even Marcus Paige went through long stretches as junior and senior where he couldn’t hit anything and worked his way out of it.
I just hope he and Cormac adjust what needs adjusting, THEN go to work practicing game situation shots. Not necessarily close guarded, but at other extreme I don’t think shooting with zero defense, all day to line up shots is relevant to in game shots either.
Did you think this team was going to roll through the ACC? lol.
It's a good team. KenPom had them #8 coming into the Clemson loss. BartTorvik has them #12 after the loss. They're a good team. But good teams get beat. That's the nature of college basketball conference play.
Yes. And like people said - Clemson was super desperate - this is one time when I do think a team - Clemson - is better than their record. They got royally hosed in Cameron to lose late, got nipped by GT and UVA.
I don’t know how the Heels thought they could win with 50 or 80% of the effort that Clemson gave. Wasn’t Clemson pretty high ranked early in the year?
Heels shot like crap but again thats 2 of 3 games. How to fix it unless EC and Ryan at least hit 40% of wide open shots (instead of 10%). We can’t revert to rj taking 30-35 shots a game. That’s stupid.
It's really easy to say "you should always play like you did in your best game of the season." It doesn't work that way.
Didn't Clemson hit 7 of their first 8 shots? How are you going to turn defense into offense if the other team doesn't miss? I'll give Clemson credit for making shots.
Hey flamer. Get pissed off at the team. Not the one who doesn't think it's the end of the world because we lost at home to Clemson.
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I heard the PTI guys wilbon and kornheiser say with nil and transfer portal etc men’s college bb viewership is way down including title game last year. Granted that was a snoozer.
But they were saying womens college basketball is more interesting to watch and people prefer it because players stay 4 years at same school.
Ok - they are parroting the espn woke dei company line but it’s not true. It will never get to where even say 30% of the viewing audience prefers women’s basketball over men’s.
Just stop SJUNG you Dook Homer. Every knows who you are. Too bad K- Rat is retired. R U retired from being T-Bagged from Ole Mikey?
Well, I can't do anything about everyone's expectations then. I've tried to be pretty measured about this team all season. I think they're a good team that has some limitations.
One of Roy's greatest strengths was not losing the game after the Duke (first leg) game. He didn't until his final two seasons. He did lose 4 times the game before Duke. It happens. Second straight year for Hubert that he lost the two games around Duke. Something he needs to get better at.
2006-07, lost the game before Duke to unranked NC State.
2009-10, lost the game before Duke to unranked Maryland
2013-14, lost the game before Duke to #8 Miami
2014-15, lost the game before Duke to unranked Pitt
2019-20, lost both games surrounding the Duke game
2020-21, lost both games surrounding the Duke game
I agree with the RJ point. When this team is in trouble, they have a habit of letting RJ try to bail them out every time. There are probably better other options. But at the same time, he might be the only one who has the balls to take those shots. But that's a bad habit this team has when they're in trouble.
I wish I was retired, lol. Disney has good retirement benefits, but they aren't that good!
And again, don't get pissed off at me. Get pissed off at the team for laying an egg. And get pissed off at yourself that you're taking it this hard.
Damn, devastated that you make homophobic insults at me and call me "dook boy." Absolutely devastating a gutted.
I is becoming a larger issue. We need to game plan around it the best we can, but he is at his best with the ball. I don't think the shooting gets fixed this year fellas, Summer is best bet. The inconsistencies of both Cadeau and Ryan are very alarming for a deep run. If neither can make a shot, we will see more of what occurred tonight with R.J. shooting less than desired contested shots.
And that's what needs to be said from the head coach... If they ain't hitting net, make it a 2 way game with RJ and Mando. They are our best players and we will win or lose on their performance
EC need to get his shots up EARLY in games when nothing is yet on the line (in the first 5minutes or so)…and he must do so on his own terms otherwise him *ONLY* taking shots when forced is the game plan of the opponent.
Again, Imo, getting his shots up early is the best way to improve his confidence without jeopardizing the game as much. Keep shooting EC but do so early early!!
As for Ryan, I love the leadership he brings to the team and I also like his pesty defense but man, his 3ball is becoming hard to watch at times. Not quite Leaky Black hard but trending - am I tripping? Lol
Again, Imo, getting his shots up early is the best way to improve his confidence without jeopardizing the game as much. Keep shooting EC but do so early early!!
As for Ryan, I love the leadership he brings to the team and I also like his pesty defense but man, his 3ball is becoming hard to watch at times. Not quite Leaky Black hard but trending - am I tripping? Lol
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Ummm, I mentioned after Duke win, EC got exposed. Teams played off EC before that game, but that game in particular was terrible for EC.
It's a battle, I agree with someone's comment, "he has to find his shot". I think Kendal went with the floater, and spinning to lane. EC is good, but not being able connect is a real issue.
It's a battle, I agree with someone's comment, "he has to find his shot". I think Kendal went with the floater, and spinning to lane. EC is good, but not being able connect is a real issue.
Marshall was 39% and 35% from 3 in his respective seasons. Usually that ugly put shot from the top of the key, but he made it enough to keep teams honest (actually arguably shot it well).
This opened up a lot of his lanes for passing because they couldn't ignore him.
Think it has been noticed before the Duke game. I had to laugh 4 or 5 games ago when defenders would bite on his shot fake. Almost like the other teams coaching staff hadn't watched any tape on us. Cadeau is good and will be very good when he is a threat to shoot and improves his d.
We all know you can't teach his vision and passing ability. You either have that or you don't. It is hard to believe that he has played the level he has without having a serviceable shot. He must be in his head. I saw guys who would miss a few and then start aiming instead of shooting. The time to think about your shot is during practice. In the game, you just shoot in the flow of the game and trust all the time you spent practicing.
We all know you can't teach his vision and passing ability. You either have that or you don't. It is hard to believe that he has played the level he has without having a serviceable shot. He must be in his head. I saw guys who would miss a few and then start aiming instead of shooting. The time to think about your shot is during practice. In the game, you just shoot in the flow of the game and trust all the time you spent practicing.
I am wondering if both Cadeau and Cormac could benefit from a little mental coaching with regard to their shooting. Commenters here have noted that Cormac is 'rushing' his shots at times, maybe the normal staff can or has tried to address that. Idk if the team has a sports psychologist in the fold, but might be worth trying.
Ryan was never an elite shooter. He had one 40% 3PT shooting season and the rest were 31-34%. So an inefficient 3PT shooting season was in play for him. I didn't think a 29% 3PT shooting season was in play, lol. But I also didn't expect Ingram to be at 42% from 3 when he was a career 31-32% shooter coming in. Maybe the basketball gods are evening things out and not giving us everything, lol.
It is strange though how poorly he's shooting and how well Ingram is shooting. It's strange to me at least.
Not looking at numbers but EC's free throw stroke has shown some signs of late, just letting it go more crisply and confidently more often. The biggest adjustment he can make during this season is mental. He knows he can shoot better than he's shown but the uncertainty is killing it. He and Ryan must get in a better mental place shooting the ball by March.
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