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I was Wrong

Ryan was never an elite shooter. He had one 40% 3PT shooting season and the rest were 31-34%. So an inefficient 3PT shooting season was in play for him. I didn't think a 29% 3PT shooting season was in play, lol. But I also didn't expect Ingram to be at 42% from 3 when he was a career 31-32% shooter coming in. Maybe the basketball gods are evening things out and not giving us everything, lol.

It is strange though how poorly he's shooting and how well Ingram is shooting. It's strange to me at least.

The prevailing thought was that Ryan's shooting would go up when he had better players surrounding him providing him with better looks and opportunities. Strange how he's actually been worse. The same thought was applicable to Ingram and that's worked out.
 
The prevailing thought was that Ryan's shooting would go up when he had better players surrounding him providing him with better looks and opportunities. Strange how he's actually been worse. The same thought was applicable to Ingram and that's worked out.
It is strange. I don't have access to some of the individual player shooting metrics since you have to pay for that. I know Ingram's catch-and-shoot 3 percentage was pretty good at Stanford and I'm guessing he's shooting a lot more catch-and-shoot 3s here. BartTorvik has 95.5% of his made 3s as assisted ones.

I thought Cormac would fit really well here. He was an elite transition 3PT shooter at Notre Dame. Like 95th percentile or something close to that. I'm sure he had the same quick release at Notre Dame too so I'm not going to link his fundamentals as the reason.

The prevailing thought was that Elliot Cadeau was some combination of Joel Berry, Ed Cota, and Jason Kidd. Maybe one day, but right now he shoots it like Seventh Woods.
 
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That explains a lot. If only I had done my homework perhaps my expectations of his 3ball wouldnt have been so high. My hope is that he at least make enough to warrant respect from the defense otherwise things can get crazy quick. He is a very smart dude so I think he will improve in that area and surprise us all.

Can’t deny all the other intangibles he brings though.
 
I is becoming a larger issue. We need to game plan around it the best we can, but he is at his best with the ball. I don't think the shooting gets fixed this year fellas, Summer is best bet. The inconsistencies of both Cadeau and Ryan are very alarming for a deep run. If neither can make a shot, we will see more of what occurred tonight with R.J. shooting less than desired contested shots.
It’s not only his shot that the opponents know won’t go in thus they lay off him, but he always goes to the right. Thus they are ignoring his shot as well a drive to the left. He has lots to learn but could end of great. Not now however. IMO he will be here a few more years unless the damn portal comes into play.
 
Can anyone enlighten us to how was Cadeau’s shot in high school? His outside shot not the dribble and drive since most elite players are able to dominate on the drive. Surely he didn’t shoot this bad in HS.
 
I am wondering if both Cadeau and Cormac could benefit from a little mental coaching with regard to their shooting. Commenters here have noted that Cormac is 'rushing' his shots at times, maybe the normal staff can or has tried to address that. Idk if the team has a sports psychologist in the fold, but might be worth trying.
Not a bad idea at all. I believe both get in their heads if their shot doesn’t fall early
 
It’s not only his shot that the opponents know won’t go in thus they lay off him, but he always goes to the right. Thus they are ignoring his shot as well a drive to the left. He has lots to learn but could end of great. Not now however. IMO he will be here a few more years unless the damn portal comes into play.
Man hopefully not - I definitely want to see him pair up with his original classmates next year. Hopefully can shore up the bigs with the portal
 
Don’t know what the plus or minus was tonight with RJ running point but it looked better than EC…Even the win against dook we have not looked good the last 3 games…

Huberts Coaching.

We changed defenses, stop pounding it inside to where Mondo doesn't want to be active on the boards And took Withers out the rotation right after his best stretch of the season. RJ got to full of himself with terrible shot selection.

Winning creates bad habits too. That dont show up til the competition does.


They just need to refocus on why they had a 10 game win streak.
 
Stats don’t lie…I love the kid but he has been bad shooting the 3…I said early in the season he looked better with the pull up jumper for 2…

Once again you are blind for 1 player you do it every year and that player can do no wrong…You have yet to say 1 thing about EC and his shooting in your post game breakdowns…
 
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Stats don’t lie…I love the kid but he has been bad shooting the 3…I said early in the season he looked better with the pull up jumper for 2…

Once again you are blind for 1 player you do it every year and that player can do no wrong…You have yet to say 1 thing about EC and his shooting in your post game breakdowns…
Troll didn't age well, huh?
And that's a lie. I most certainly have discussed it. Take your stupid attack and shove it.
 
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Troll didn't age well, huh?
And that's a lie. I most certainly have discussed it. Take your stupid attack and shove it.
lol you really think you are something..Nothing I said is wrong…You still a Auburn fan that looks down on other people…
 
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Player A after today: 43% fg 19% 3p %
Player B 2002-2003: 50% fg 36% 3p %.
No need to give this clown facts…He is a know it all that knows nothing…He acts like he knows that I am some former troll that changed their name…I was on this site forever Kool123….Like I said he talks down on people and is never wrong…

I don’t know anything but he is the same guy that said Coby White should have not been the starting PG his freshman year…Plus he is not even a Tar Heel fan he pulls for Auburn in football and UNC in basketball….

Also I have been saying that if EC starts hitting from 3 this team can win the whole damn thing…I hope yesterday gets him going…
 
Can anyone enlighten us to how was Cadeau’s shot in high school? His outside shot not the dribble and drive since most elite players are able to dominate on the drive. Surely he didn’t shoot this bad in HS.
Cadeua's jump shooting in high school was OK, about what you would expect from a PG that is pass first, it needed work but not the worst I have seen either. The kid literally didn't need to jump shoot in high school, there was no defenders able to stay in front of him, he got layups about any time he wanted. Why jump shoot when you can get a lay up? LOL

But the kid is a worker, he takes weakness in his game very seriously, maybe even to a fault, he works to make it in to a strength. Kid from his own mouth shares, he has 3 shooting sessions a day and looks to make over a thousand shots, each daily session being about 45mins. That is a LOT of shots put up every day, keep doing that and his shot will hone in solid.
 
No need to give this clown facts…He is a know it all that knows nothing…He acts like he knows that I am some former troll that changed their name…I was on this site forever Kool123….Like I said he talks down on people and is never wrong…

I don’t know anything but he is the same guy that said Coby White should have not been the starting PG his freshman year…Plus he is not even a Tar Heel fan he pulls for Auburn in football and UNC in basketball….

Also I have been saying that if EC starts hitting from 3 this team can win the whole damn thing…I hope yesterday gets him going…
Your OP was just passive-aggressive fish-bait, but hey, what else is new? Oh, and "talking down" to you could happen just by saying random words.

You are both a former and current troll, and since you always default to assinine juvenile attacks, I'll go ahead and add that you're a serial douche (as you were called out for in another thread).

FYI, I'm a life-long Carolina fan, and I'll assume you are as well... but in your case, that doesn't seem to mitigate the douche thing.

You have a nice day, hear?
 
Your OP was just passive-aggressive fish-bait, but hey, what else is new? Oh, and "talking down" to you could happen just by saying random words.

You are both a former and current troll, and since you always default to assinine juvenile attacks, I'll go ahead and add that you're a serial douche (as you were called out for in another thread).

FYI, I'm a life-long Carolina fan, and I'll assume you are as well... but in your case, that doesn't seem to mitigate the douche thing.

You have a nice day, hear?
It really hurts your ego when you are wrong…😂😂😂😂
 
Cadeua's jump shooting in high school was OK, about what you would expect from a PG that is pass first, it needed work but not the worst I have seen either. The kid literally didn't need to jump shoot in high school, there was no defenders able to stay in front of him, he got layups about any time he wanted. Why jump shoot when you can get a lay up? LOL

But the kid is a worker, he takes weakness in his game very seriously, maybe even to a fault, he works to make it in to a strength. Kid from his own mouth shares, he has 3 shooting sessions a day and looks to make over a thousand shots, each daily session being about 45mins. That is a LOT of shots put up every day, keep doing that and his shot will hone in solid.
First paragraph pretty much was what I expected
 
That is an interesting question, does only pulling for basketball only, not make you a Tar Heel fan?
I don't lose any sleep if Carolina football loses. I will pull for the Emblem but basketball is the only sport that moves the needle for me. Of course I didn't grow up in North Carolina like many of you.
 
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No one has even mentioned at all how opponents have figured out the way to compete and beat Carolina is to attack their smaller guards over and over again..:Forget about pointing fingers at one or two players because others have, look at the real root of the Tuesday night Curse the UNC guards cannot stop the opponents guards. Just look at the stats for Mintz and Bell last night. Case closed…
 
No one has even mentioned at all how opponents have figured out the way to compete and beat Carolina is to attack their smaller guards over and over again..:Forget about pointing fingers at one or two players because others have, look at the real root of the Tuesday night Curse the UNC guards cannot stop the opponents guards. Just look at the stats for Mintz and Bell last night. Case closed…
Even more reason EC has to give us some points…He can’t allow his man to have 20 and he only gets 4…Got to have something…
 
Even more reason EC has to give us some points…He can’t allow his man to have 20 and he only gets 4…Got to have something…
Cadeau may have only had 4pts but he did have 7 dimes. I just am not real in to being real critical (not aimed at any poster by saying this) of a freshman, freshmen will prove to you they are freshmen, we tend to forget that to often. I defend JWash a lot again, I consider him as a freshman considering how much time he has had to deal with recovery from those knee issues, don't like being overly critical of him because of that, High same thing. I am going to tend to be way more critical of a JR or Sr than I will be of a freshman or soph. I am going to look at mistakes frosh or sophs make with the thought of you need to work on that and clean it up. With Jr and Seniors I more think you should know better by now.

Now I do agree and even I looking back expected to much of Cadeau, yeah the hype got me to. I am not saying this to return to some of the disagreement gary and I have had, I would prefer not to revisit that but it has rubbed me raw at times the over the top praise of Cadeau even after games where it clearly was not justified. I think we all, I know I do, have our favored guys that it is harder for us to be really fair of when we watch them play. My favorite guy on this team is Seth, I don't think anyone would be surprised at my saying that, I do maybe have a slight blind spot for Jalen as well. But I do discuss their short comings as well as their strengths, when they have a bad game I do try to say just that. I am not going to constantly ignore their short comings and blame their mistakes on others.

Kool, talking directly to you now, I don't know what your beef with gary is, I don't like his getting abrupt either when I or any other poster simply disagrees with him. But it looks like your mission is exclusively hawking gary and that isn't kool either. I could care less if gary is a Auburn football fan and a UNC basketball fan, in the same way I could care less if someone actually attended UNC or not yet claims to be a life long UNC fan. The ONLY thing that matters to me is that they are really a UNC basketball fan and in that respect I find it hard to question gary's fanhood when it comes to UNC basketball. Your strongest bullet seems to be that he is a Auburn football fan, sorry but that strikes me like a bullet with no gun powder, well I guess it doesn't strike me or anyone else if that powder is MIA? How about we chill and talk UNC basketball, wouldn't that be KOOL! LoL
 
No one has even mentioned at all how opponents have figured out the way to compete and beat Carolina is to attack their smaller guards over and over again..:Forget about pointing fingers at one or two players because others have, look at the real root of the Tuesday night Curse the UNC guards cannot stop the opponents guards. Just look at the stats for Mintz and Bell last night. Case closed…
Same team with the same guards lost to us by what, 36 the first time we played them as well as we playing the same guards? That is about as applies to apples as it gets so we have to ask why such a difference? Bet I could ask that same question to 1,000 strong college basketball fans and the 90%+ answer will be they watched our game film and they adjusted to that film. THAT would be MY answer as well! But is it the right question, what changed? Clearly, last night we allowed them to get red hot jump shooting, 62.5% for the game they shot! We didn't let them get hot shooting it last time, we did work before the catch, last night it was after the catch and that is to late, to late to keep guys from getting down hill on you and we switched in to to many mismatches, been a season long problem that hurts us more in some games if we are not having a great shooting night. If you are going to do all that switching then you absolutely MUST communicate on defense and it did not look to me like we communicated well at all. Example, Seth is guarding their guard just as he crossed half court, a screener steps up and nails Seth and Seth had a team mate about 3ftg away that didn't call out that screen or pick up as the ball handler went by Seth.

I would love to hear AJ's take on how UNC communicated on defense last night considering he was at the game and I wasn't. Solid defense absolutely screams for great communication and best I could tell we were silent last night in that aspect.
 
Cadeau may have only had 4pts but he did have 7 dimes. I just am not real in to being real critical (not aimed at any poster by saying this) of a freshman, freshmen will prove to you they are freshmen, we tend to forget that to often. I defend JWash a lot again, I consider him as a freshman considering how much time he has had to deal with recovery from those knee issues, don't like being overly critical of him because of that, High same thing. I am going to tend to be way more critical of a JR or Sr than I will be of a freshman or soph. I am going to look at mistakes frosh or sophs make with the thought of you need to work on that and clean it up. With Jr and Seniors I more think you should know better by now.

Now I do agree and even I looking back expected to much of Cadeau, yeah the hype got me to. I am not saying this to return to some of the disagreement gary and I have had, I would prefer not to revisit that but it has rubbed me raw at times the over the top praise of Cadeau even after games where it clearly was not justified. I think we all, I know I do, have our favored guys that it is harder for us to be really fair of when we watch them play. My favorite guy on this team is Seth, I don't think anyone would be surprised at my saying that, I do maybe have a slight blind spot for Jalen as well. But I do discuss their short comings as well as their strengths, when they have a bad game I do try to say just that. I am not going to constantly ignore their short comings and blame their mistakes on others.

Kool, talking directly to you now, I don't know what your beef with gary is, I don't like his getting abrupt either when I or any other poster simply disagrees with him. But it looks like your mission is exclusively hawking gary and that isn't kool either. I could care less if gary is a Auburn football fan and a UNC basketball fan, in the same way I could care less if someone actually attended UNC or not yet claims to be a life long UNC fan. The ONLY thing that matters to me is that they are really a UNC basketball fan and in that respect I find it hard to question gary's fanhood when it comes to UNC basketball. Your strongest bullet seems to be that he is a Auburn football fan, sorry but that strikes me like a bullet with no gun powder, well I guess it doesn't strike me or anyone else if that powder is MIA? How about we chill and talk UNC basketball, wouldn't that be KOOL! LoL
No problem I will leave Gary alone…Go Heels….
 
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Y’all carry on.

Just when it seemed, as some have said, the “cancer” from last year’s team wasn’t here and this team had come together and was “getting” it they start playing like last year’s team again. So I guess I was wrong too thinking they were different this year. Time to prove me wrong
 
Y’all carry on.

Just when it seemed, as some have said, the “cancer” from last year’s team wasn’t here and this team had come together and was “getting” it they start playing like last year’s team again. So I guess I was wrong too thinking they were different this year. Time to prove me wrong
Cuz they lost to a team that shot lights out?
 
A big part of the disagreement around EC comes from what you think a PG, particularly a Carolina PG is supposed to do. Stats are one thing but despite some typical freshman struggles and inconsistency (yes and weird targeting by refs) few players have had a bigger impact on a team and it's potential than this kid. RJ still isn't a quality PG in my eyes but he has definitely been influenced in a positive manner to look to distribute and pitch ahead by EC's presence. I'm not sure how much we saw what Hubert wants his teams to look like in his first two seasons but this year has been a relief to some degree in seeing more typical Carolina pace and ball movement and no one impacts that half as much as EC. It's been a pretty good season overall but I can't help but think we'd be further along had he gotten big starter minutes from Day 1 and maybe worked through things and gained confidence against weaker competition.
 
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Love the way he runs the team and how hard he plays..But it drives me nuts when he will not pull the trigger…Perfect example when he was in the middle of the Zone the other night he has to take and hit those shots…Might have been better to put Ingram in the sweet spot of the Zone..

I know 1 thing EC is the key for this team…Not just passing either he has to become a threat to score…
 
Does it matter how we fans prefer our PGs to play, not really, what matters is how Hubert seems to want them to play. Personally, I prefer more of a "game manager" at the point to a spot light scorer. Definition of a manager is one who gets things done thru other people. IN addition to the PG there are 4 team mates on the floor and I want my PG actively looking to spread the wealth by working to get each of those other 4 the ball in position that they can score. Assists to me mean a lot because they reflect the work of spreading that wealth around. I want the ball in my PGs hands, need him to be a very strong ball handler, love extreme quickness in my PG and a smart passer. I want my PG to attack the defense as soon as he crosses half court if there is not a break opportunity. I need my PG to be able to move defenses, to force them to switch in to mismatches. Each player not only has their own unique abilities, IE RJ as a jump shooter but they all have different spots on the floor they prefer. My PG has to understand the different strengths and weakness of his mates and set things up to their individual strengths. Ryan for example, I prefer he not get the pass when he curls hard around a defender for a catch and shoot, Ryan is not the same shooter coming off a curl but can shoot it well on a catch and pop.

Cadeau fits most of what I want in my PG, I think he would be even better if we played more free lance motion than all those set plays. The difference as a PG between Cadeau and RJ is to me striking. When Cadeau is in our pace is much faster and we actually manufacture break ops, when RJ is the point guard we become a half court team and the tempo slows. Teams fear our running game and high tempo so they do not send as many guys to the offensive boards. With Cadeau you just have to keep in mind, he is still a freshman that did have another season of eligibility where he could have played high school ball this season. IO see it mentioned all the time that he is old for his class, OK but it isn't about how old he is, it is about how many seasons did he play prior to college and that makes him more like any other reclass guy, not yet as ready to lead a college program as a kid that finished 4yrs of high school ball before joining a college team. I am not a huge fan of reclass high school guys because they really struggle to meet the incoming hype. Give this kid the next off season to work on his game exclusively with this season of experience under his belt, I think you will see something really special, I just hope we have the talent to put on the floor with him to allow him to really flourish.

A HUGE difference between this season and the last 2 is that the first 2 seasons we had to really work hard to get clean looks for guys that should be able to finish them. I have seen a TON more clean looks for jump shooters that SHOULD be finishing at a much higher rate than they do. I have as well seen a LOT of missed easy "bunnies" deep in the paint and fumbles catching the ball while in a great position to finish had the catch been clean. We simply are not having to live off of highly contested shots from volume shooters that result in low efficiency. I look at my PG when I see a lot of open shots happen for shooters than should be able to knock them down.

What I do not understand is why we are not shooting better than we are? I mean come on, if your shots are always with a hand in your face, like we watched last season, I for sure do not expect great efficiency but without that hand in the face, a clean look, I expect a decent but not great shooter to be able to make 50%, lets say a Ingram level player, not a great jump shooter but decent. How much different is a wide open clean look to a solid jump shooter that he takes in a game from the shots he takes in shooting practice? Put a kid in a gym by himself that is considered to be a solid jump shooter and all he does is put up 3pt jumpers. A solid jump shooter is going to make 70-80% of those practice shots at a min, some days he will make 90%. Game pressure, situational considerations aside in a game a solid shooter getting wide open looks should be making 50%. Give RJ nothing but clean looks for 40mins and you tell me how many he makes, it would be MOST of them but it is rare that RJ gets anything close to a wide open clean look. But Ryan, Ingram at times should be feasting on the clean looks they get?
 
Love the way he runs the team and how hard he plays..But it drives me nuts when he will not pull the trigger…Perfect example when he was in the middle of the Zone the other night he has to take and hit those shots…Might have been better to put Ingram in the sweet spot of the Zone..

I know 1 thing EC is the key for this team…Not just passing either he has to become a threat to score…
You hit on something I have been itching to talk about, putting Cadeau in the middle of that cuse zone? You know how Roy loved to attack that cuse zone, put Brice (ok, a big man) in the middle of it and him make the quick decision to pass it or shoot it. Having our PG there struck me as weird but it did create some interesting things, Cadeau seemed to have a lot of really open floater ops, hard to understand why he missed those but he did have some nice slips to Bacot. But the struggles we had simply passing the ball in to Cadeau in the middle of that zone were amazing in how poor they were, in TOs coming from what should be a easy pass. Felt like we left a LOT of points on the table there.

I would have preferred Ingram to be the guy in the middle of that zone as well as a few minutes of Jalen because I think both would be money hitting the mid range jumpers in that spot.
 
You hit on something I have been itching to talk about, putting Cadeau in the middle of that cuse zone? You know how Roy loved to attack that cuse zone, put Brice (ok, a big man) in the middle of it and him make the quick decision to pass it or shoot it. Having our PG there struck me as weird but it did create some interesting things, Cadeau seemed to have a lot of really open floater ops, hard to understand why he missed those but he did have some nice slips to Bacot. But the struggles we had simply passing the ball in to Cadeau in the middle of that zone were amazing in how poor they were, in TOs coming from what should be a easy pass. Felt like we left a LOT of points on the table there.

I would have preferred Ingram to be the guy in the middle of that zone as well as a few minutes of Jalen because I think both would be money hitting the mid range jumpers in that spot.
It's not as easy of a pass when the guy in the middle is 6 foot instead of 6'10.
 
Same team with the same guards lost to us by what, 36 the first time we played them as well as we playing the same guards? That is about as applies to apples as it gets so we have to ask why such a difference? Bet I could ask that same question to 1,000 strong college basketball fans and the 90%+ answer will be they watched our game film and they adjusted to that film. THAT would be MY answer as well! But is it the right question, what changed? Clearly, last night we allowed them to get red hot jump shooting, 62.5% for the game they shot! We didn't let them get hot shooting it last time, we did work before the catch, last night it was after the catch and that is to late, to late to keep guys from getting down hill on you and we switched in to to many mismatches, been a season long problem that hurts us more in some games if we are not having a great shooting night. If you are going to do all that switching then you absolutely MUST communicate on defense and it did not look to me like we communicated well at all. Example, Seth is guarding their guard just as he crossed half court, a screener steps up and nails Seth and Seth had a team mate about 3ftg away that didn't call out that screen or pick up as the ball handler went by Seth.

I would love to hear AJ's take on how UNC communicated on defense last night considering he was at the game and I wasn't. Solid defense absolutely screams for great communication and best I could tell we were silent last night in that aspect.
Good perspective Dave
 
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