JJ comes back unc will be better than Kensucky again
- Thread starter 3skinny
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Before Mikey says it, "Oh NO, not another Ky thread"! LOL
But seriously, Ky, I think a lot depends on if they get Bolden and Lee coming back. I love Bam, he IMO is a day 1 starter at the 4, Bolden should day 1 start at the 5 and both are HUGE upgrades over Skal. I like Gabriel as a strong motor guy, I am not as sold on Shasha as many are, think he could develop in to a very solid college player but I think he is a guy I could see play a senior season in college.
But I am not sold on that back court minus Ulis and Murry. Monk is a scorer but I am not sure he is a super star as a freshman, kinda of a volumn shooter IMO. I like the PG they are getting but not as much as the 2 they are losing. I think their back court takes a step back and their front court is improved.
But seriously, Ky, I think a lot depends on if they get Bolden and Lee coming back. I love Bam, he IMO is a day 1 starter at the 4, Bolden should day 1 start at the 5 and both are HUGE upgrades over Skal. I like Gabriel as a strong motor guy, I am not as sold on Shasha as many are, think he could develop in to a very solid college player but I think he is a guy I could see play a senior season in college.
But I am not sold on that back court minus Ulis and Murry. Monk is a scorer but I am not sure he is a super star as a freshman, kinda of a volumn shooter IMO. I like the PG they are getting but not as much as the 2 they are losing. I think their back court takes a step back and their front court is improved.
There frontcourt has to be better than it was last year,it was garbage. Ulis and Murray where by far there best players. Unc will have a better backcourt and frontcourt. Love are chances to better are head to head record against those cheaters unc owns them.
I think what it'll boil down to in terms of our strength vs Kentucky's is our ability to translate our experience into a proper cohesional unit, because they'll have the better overall raw talent.
And that's why we play the games
jc, kinda off topic, but how do you like having a "New Team" every season?
it doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me is the NBA forcing kids to go to college if they don't want to. I understand a lot of NBA teams in the past drafted and invested a lot of money into them and a lot were a bust. So that's why they started the one year deal.
But as far as my personal opinion about one year guys, it doesn't bother me. They didn't have a option and they represented UK very well. Hell, those one and dones come back year after to games, Madness, off season, etc... Most have established organizations in their new NBA town to help kids, animals, etc...
I really don't understand why anyone would hate one and done players. I also don't understand why anyone wouldn't want them on their team. Because if they are one and done, more than likely they're going to help your team.
If you're asking me if I would like to have Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Davis, MKG, Knight, Randle, Young, KAT, etc... For four years? Hell yes I would. And if you're asking me if one and dones have been a problem at UK? No they haven't.
I love my team. We've had four year players as well as OAD. I love them all. Anyone that comes to UK I support. As long as they do the right thing while here.
I've never understood anyone from any fanbase having a problem with a kid being forced to play one year of college. Let alone say they don't want that player. That they want a 4 year player.
That makes me SMH. You'd rather have a player that will stay four years(In which means that 99.9% of those players want see the NBA) But you don't want a OAD player which more than likely 80% will get drafted.
I'm sorry, but I'll take talent over experience. In the real world, experience and talent would be awesome. But NBA talent want stay around to get experience. That's true.
To be honest Mike, my friends I talk to on the Duke boards felt the same way UNC fans feel here about the OAD player until they started getting them. Now, they embrace them as much as a four year player. And they should. Because that OAD player is no less of a player for their program than a four year player.
And trust me Mike, in a couple of years y'all will be opening your arms to the OAD done players as well. I guarantee it. Y'all will be defending them with your last breath. But y'all (along with everyone else's fanbase including ours) will try to say their OAD players aren't like other OAD players.
The cloud over UNC basketball has been lifted. And Roy has said many times that he recruits the same players UK and Duke recruits. But that cloud has hurt him in recruiting. That's his words.
Now, Roy doesn't have to worry about that anymore. And I figure next year he will land some OAD's. And I can't wait. Because just to see this board for the last few years swear off OAD players will turn right around and praise the same kids they have swore if they ever committed to UNC then they would stop watching UNC basketball.
With that being said, I hope you're doing good buddy. I think about you all the time. You know I'm a cancer survivor myself but never had to go through what you have. I'll keep sending prayers up to the big guy in the sky and you just kick the shit out of this disease. I love you buddy. Hold down the fort.
Whether we are or not, it's too early to say IMO. They still have no idea who's coming back. Didn't their entire team (walk ons and all) declare for the draft?
I'd like to know what they're working with before I make predictions.
I do believe that we will be good, they will be good, and the matchup will be a hell of a game in December.
I'd like to know what they're working with before I make predictions.
I do believe that we will be good, they will be good, and the matchup will be a hell of a game in December.
it doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me is the NBA forcing kids to go to college if they don't want to. I understand a lot of NBA teams in the past drafted and invested a lot of money into them and a lot were a bust. So that's why they started the one year deal.
But as far as my personal opinion about one year guys, it doesn't bother me. They didn't have a option and they represented UK very well. Hell, those one and dones come back year after to games, Madness, off season, etc... Most have established organizations in their new NBA town to help kids, animals, etc...
I really don't understand why anyone would hate one and done players. I also don't understand why anyone wouldn't want them on their team. Because if they are one and done, more than likely they're going to help your team.
If you're asking me if I would like to have Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Davis, MKG, Knight, Randle, Young, KAT, etc... For four years? Hell yes I would. And if you're asking me if one and dones have been a problem at UK? No they haven't.
I love my team. We've had four year players as well as OAD. I love them all. Anyone that comes to UK I support. As long as they do the right thing while here.
I've never understood anyone from any fanbase having a problem with a kid being forced to play one year of college. Let alone say they don't want that player. That they want a 4 year player.
That makes me SMH. You'd rather have a player that will stay four years(In which means that 99.9% of those players want see the NBA) But you don't want a OAD player which more than likely 80% will get drafted.
I'm sorry, but I'll take talent over experience. In the real world, experience and talent would be awesome. But NBA talent want stay around to get experience. That's true.
To be honest Mike, my friends I talk to on the Duke boards felt the same way UNC fans feel here about the OAD player until they started getting them. Now, they embrace them as much as a four year player. And they should. Because that OAD player is no less of a player for their program than a four year player.
And trust me Mike, in a couple of years y'all will be opening your arms to the OAD done players as well. I guarantee it. Y'all will be defending them with your last breath. But y'all (along with everyone else's fanbase including ours) will try to say their OAD players aren't like other OAD players.
The cloud over UNC basketball has been lifted. And Roy has said many times that he recruits the same players UK and Duke recruits. But that cloud has hurt him in recruiting. That's his words.
Now, Roy doesn't have to worry about that anymore. And I figure next year he will land some OAD's. And I can't wait. Because just to see this board for the last few years swear off OAD players will turn right around and praise the same kids they have swore if they ever committed to UNC then they would stop watching UNC basketball.
With that being said, I hope you're doing good buddy. I think about you all the time. You know I'm a cancer survivor myself but never had to go through what you have. I'll keep sending prayers up to the big guy in the sky and you just kick the shit out of this disease. I love you buddy. Hold down the fort.
It's according if these OAD's have handlers,you can thank roy for not going all in on John Wall.
it doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me is the NBA forcing kids to go to college if they don't want to. I understand a lot of NBA teams in the past drafted and invested a lot of money into them and a lot were a bust. So that's why they started the one year deal.
But as far as my personal opinion about one year guys, it doesn't bother me. They didn't have a option and they represented UK very well. Hell, those one and dones come back year after to games, Madness, off season, etc... Most have established organizations in their new NBA town to help kids, animals, etc...
I really don't understand why anyone would hate one and done players. I also don't understand why anyone wouldn't want them on their team. Because if they are one and done, more than likely they're going to help your team.
If you're asking me if I would like to have Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Davis, MKG, Knight, Randle, Young, KAT, etc... For four years? Hell yes I would. And if you're asking me if one and dones have been a problem at UK? No they haven't.
I love my team. We've had four year players as well as OAD. I love them all. Anyone that comes to UK I support. As long as they do the right thing while here.
I've never understood anyone from any fanbase having a problem with a kid being forced to play one year of college. Let alone say they don't want that player. That they want a 4 year player.
That makes me SMH. You'd rather have a player that will stay four years(In which means that 99.9% of those players want see the NBA) But you don't want a OAD player which more than likely 80% will get drafted.
I'm sorry, but I'll take talent over experience. In the real world, experience and talent would be awesome. But NBA talent want stay around to get experience. That's true.
To be honest Mike, my friends I talk to on the Duke boards felt the same way UNC fans feel here about the OAD player until they started getting them. Now, they embrace them as much as a four year player. And they should. Because that OAD player is no less of a player for their program than a four year player.
And trust me Mike, in a couple of years y'all will be opening your arms to the OAD done players as well. I guarantee it. Y'all will be defending them with your last breath. But y'all (along with everyone else's fanbase including ours) will try to say their OAD players aren't like other OAD players.
The cloud over UNC basketball has been lifted. And Roy has said many times that he recruits the same players UK and Duke recruits. But that cloud has hurt him in recruiting. That's his words.
Now, Roy doesn't have to worry about that anymore. And I figure next year he will land some OAD's. And I can't wait. Because just to see this board for the last few years swear off OAD players will turn right around and praise the same kids they have swore if they ever committed to UNC then they would stop watching UNC basketball.
With that being said, I hope you're doing good buddy. I think about you all the time. You know I'm a cancer survivor myself but never had to go through what you have. I'll keep sending prayers up to the big guy in the sky and you just kick the shit out of this disease. I love you buddy. Hold down the fort.
First off JC, respectfully, you have to stop with the whole UNC fans say they don't want any one & done players. That is nothing but negative anti UNC spin used to negatively recruit against UNC. That may be the popular line to use on a Ky site but I can not let that pass here.
WE, me, have never said we didn't want a one & done player, none of us have ever said that to my recall. What we have said is that we do not want to load up on one & done players and be in a situation that we have to totally rebuild our team each and every year. And guess what boss, last season many of your own Ky fans were of that same opinion that having experienced returning players is better than having to roll the dice every single season and hope your total rebuild works this time.
No, we, maybe better said I, do not want Roy down playing the college aspect, NO, do not want Roy telling any recruit that he will not allow him to come back for a soph season. NO, many, most, maybe all UNC fans would not prefer 5 freshmen in our starting line up and see our returning players marginalized so that star freshman can show case himself to the NBA scouts.
Speaking for myself I would love to see us snag 1 or 2 one & done level players in every class. But I do not want to us us having to make back room deals with handlers and street agents and I darn sure do not want our program to be associated with scum like WWW and all the dirty tricks he plays as your ambassador for your program. Lot of these one & done kids are involved with some things that your fans would not like getting out there for the public to really see. You think they drilled us over AFAM, that is nothing comparred to the nonsense WWW is involved in that is directly under the NCAA authority to punish over. So the John Walls and the Bledsoe's and the Boogers are not really what we want at UNC, love their talent but don't really want the baggage that comes with them. We had enough of that stuff with the minor issues PJ got involved with, we sure don't want to take on a kid like that and know problems have to be hidden. I really wanted bam but he hooked up with a handler and these kids should have parents handling them, not men looking to profit off the kid's present and future playing ability.
Confusing to me JC, you say you hate that a kid can not jump straight to the NBA from high school but love the one & done player and the coach that uses the one & done rule as his primary and major selling point? Isn't that a bit like loving the Bible and satan at the same time?
Understand, by making this one & done route to the NBA so popular we now have kids ranked in the 50s looking to be one & done, gee, thanks for that by the way... AND WHY IS THAT YOU ASK, now the street agents and the AAU coaches and everyone can now see a early pay day off their kid so they pump them all up, not just the rare kid that can be and should be a one & done but many more now are convinced. For that to happen it took 2 things, first the NBA putting the one & done rule and the rookie salary cap in place and college coaches to embrace it, to do the NBA;s job of marketing the NBA to them. And first in that line was kalipari, ah don't worry about what college ya go to, you only have to be there 6mo, this could be podunk U for all that matters, we kinda love UNC and the school part of things actually does matter to most UNC fans.
ya see, dummy me actually at one time thought Ky fans loved Ky more than the NBA, dummmy me didn't think he would ever see a day when their head coach that is so worshipped called the day of the NBA draft the best day in Kentucy;s history? ya see, for at least this UNC fan, draft day is a bit on the depressing side, we love it for the kids that get drafted but we miss watching them play in Tar Heel blue so you will have to excuse us if we want to enjoy them playing in Tar Heel blue for as long as possible.
But for myself and I suspect for many UNC fans, we would LOVE to have a one & doner or 2, we just would prefer to not have 5 at the same time and have to rebuild every single season. But that isn't how you described things is it, you said we didn't want ANY one & done talents, didn't ya? Now I have not said anything in this post I have not said multiple times before or see said by many UNC fans. So how we see this is not vauge, it is pretty clear and it has been stated this way many many times by many many different posters. So why is it still unclear for you man, why do you even now say that UNC fans do not want a one & done player, Why?
The sad thing is that handlers are making thousands of dollars "legally" and the NCAA can't do a darn thing about it. Some kids have no control of their school choice. You have a kid like Udoka who wanted badley to come to UNC and could not commit to UNC because of money hungry handlers. A high percentage of one-and-done players have handlers and UNC will not play the games to get these kids.
Sorry jc, but this is a gross misrepresentation of what has been posted here. No one has said they hate OAD's or that they don't want us to recruit them. We have said we don't want to build our program around them, like Cal and Krazywhiskey have done. The occasional OAD is fine, but our program is, and should be, built on 3-4 year players. If you're content with Cal's approach, fine. I don't want to see that at UNC.it doesn't bother me at al
To be honest Mike, my friends I talk to on the Duke boards felt the same way UNC fans feel here about the OAD player until they started getting them. Now, they embrace them as much as a four year player. And they should. Because that OAD player is no less of a player for their program than a four year player.
And trust me Mike, in a couple of years y'all will be opening your arms to the OAD done players as well. I guarantee it. Y'all will be defending them with your last breath. But y'all (along with everyone else's fanbase including ours) will try to say their OAD players aren't like other OAD players.
The cloud over UNC basketball has been lifted. And Roy has said many times that he recruits the same players UK and Duke recruits. But that cloud has hurt him in recruiting. That's his words.
Now, Roy doesn't have to worry about that anymore. And I figure next year he will land some OAD's. And I can't wait. Because just to see this board for the last few years swear off OAD players will turn right around and praise the same kids they have swore if they ever committed to UNC then they would stop watching UNC basketball.
Many of us actually don't think the lifting of the NCAA cloud will impact our signing of OAD's much at all. UNC simply isn't seen as a OAD type of school. Again, I'm happy we aren't. Now I do think we'll be able to sign more players ranked in the 15-40 range, very good players who aren't seen as OAD's. And those are the players I want to see at UNC.
its easier to comment to your short post than to D's. No disrespect D. But I'll reply to both of you.
I reread my previous post, what was I wrong in saying?
To Mike, you're a mod and you read everything here. Is it not true that a lot of people here has said multiple times they hate OAD? Have they also said that Roy doesn't recruit them? Have they also said that if UNC recruits OAD's and gets them then they would stop watching basketball? Of course you've read this. Did I ever say "YOU" said this? No. So I don't know where you think I brought you into these people. You have always defended UNC and Roy. Hell, half of this board wanted Roy fired before the season started. You know what I stated was true and don't understand why you're offended.
And "D", why do you always want to come to this boards defense when it doesn't pertain to you? Did I specify you? Or did I say people on this board?
I love your loyalty. Hell, that's the reason I love you to death. But don't come to me with a book long response about how "I" am lying and you never said that. I never said you did. But a lot of people here have. And you have made many remarks as well.
"D" how many OAD are the limit? One? Two? Three? If you get just one, are you still respected? Is three to many? But two is okay? What if Roy lands five in a single season? Are you so freaking mad that you're going to despise the last three OAD's?
Nope, you're going to enjoy them. Like any fan would.
But proceed to trash me or talk Down to me. I guarantee we'll have this conversation in the next two years and you'll love having thes kids.
it doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me is the NBA forcing kids to go to college if they don't want to. I understand a lot of NBA teams in the past drafted and invested a lot of money into them and a lot were a bust. So that's why they started the one year deal.
But as far as my personal opinion about one year guys, it doesn't bother me. They didn't have a option and they represented UK very well. Hell, those one and dones come back year after to games, Madness, off season, etc... Most have established organizations in their new NBA town to help kids, animals, etc...
I really don't understand why anyone would hate one and done players. I also don't understand why anyone wouldn't want them on their team. Because if they are one and done, more than likely they're going to help your team.
If you're asking me if I would like to have Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Davis, MKG, Knight, Randle, Young, KAT, etc... For four years? Hell yes I would. And if you're asking me if one and dones have been a problem at UK? No they haven't.
I love my team. We've had four year players as well as OAD. I love them all. Anyone that comes to UK I support. As long as they do the right thing while here.
I've never understood anyone from any fanbase having a problem with a kid being forced to play one year of college. Let alone say they don't want that player. That they want a 4 year player.
That makes me SMH. You'd rather have a player that will stay four years(In which means that 99.9% of those players want see the NBA) But you don't want a OAD player which more than likely 80% will get drafted.
I'm sorry, but I'll take talent over experience. In the real world, experience and talent would be awesome. But NBA talent want stay around to get experience. That's true.
To be honest Mike, my friends I talk to on the Duke boards felt the same way UNC fans feel here about the OAD player until they started getting them. Now, they embrace them as much as a four year player. And they should. Because that OAD player is no less of a player for their program than a four year player.
And trust me Mike, in a couple of years y'all will be opening your arms to the OAD done players as well. I guarantee it. Y'all will be defending them with your last breath. But y'all (along with everyone else's fanbase including ours) will try to say their OAD players aren't like other OAD players.
The cloud over UNC basketball has been lifted. And Roy has said many times that he recruits the same players UK and Duke recruits. But that cloud has hurt him in recruiting. That's his words.
Now, Roy doesn't have to worry about that anymore. And I figure next year he will land some OAD's. And I can't wait. Because just to see this board for the last few years swear off OAD players will turn right around and praise the same kids they have swore if they ever committed to UNC then they would stop watching UNC basketball.
With that being said, I hope you're doing good buddy. I think about you all the time. You know I'm a cancer survivor myself but never had to go through what you have. I'll keep sending prayers up to the big guy in the sky and you just kick the shit out of this disease. I love you buddy. Hold down the fort.
Well said JCits easier to comment to your short post than to D's. No disrespect D. But I'll reply to both of you.
I reread my previous post, what was I wrong in saying?
To Mike, you're a mod and you read everything here. Is it not true that a lot of people here has said multiple times they hate OAD? Have they also said that Roy doesn't recruit them? Have they also said that if UNC recruits OAD's and gets them then they would stop watching basketball? Of course you've read this. Did I ever say "YOU" said this? No. So I don't know where you think I brought you into these people. You have always defended UNC and Roy. Hell, half of this board wanted Roy fired before the season started. You know what I stated was true and don't understand why you're offended.
And "D", why do you always want to come to this boards defense when it doesn't pertain to you? Did I specify you? Or did I say people on this board?
I love your loyalty. Hell, that's the reason I love you to death. But don't come to me with a book long response about how "I" am lying and you never said that. I never said you did. But a lot of people here have. And you have made many remarks as well.
"D" how many OAD are the limit? One? Two? Three? If you get just one, are you still respected? Is three to many? But two is okay? What if Roy lands five in a single season? Are you so freaking mad that you're going to despise the last three OAD's?
Nope, you're going to enjoy them. Like any fan would.
But proceed to trash me or talk Down to me. I guarantee we'll have this conversation in the next two years and you'll love having thes kids.
I agree with most of what you said. Kids should have every right to go out of High school, NBA clubs need to do a better job of evaluation so they don't get burnt. Stop drafting on potential alone!
Carolina is now without this mess over our heads and I believe all 4 BLUEBLOODS will be in heavy battles over the same OAD types for the foreseeable future.
its easier to comment to your short post than to D's. No disrespect D. But I'll reply to both of you.
I reread my previous post, what was I wrong in saying?
To Mike, you're a mod and you read everything here. Is it not true that a lot of people here has said multiple times they hate OAD? Have they also said that Roy doesn't recruit them? Have they also said that if UNC recruits OAD's and gets them then they would stop watching basketball? Of course you've read this. Did I ever say "YOU" said this? No. So I don't know where you think I brought you into these people. You have always defended UNC and Roy. Hell, half of this board wanted Roy fired before the season started. You know what I stated was true and don't understand why you're offended.
And "D", why do you always want to come to this boards defense when it doesn't pertain to you? Did I specify you? Or did I say people on this board?
I love your loyalty. Hell, that's the reason I love you to death. But don't come to me with a book long response about how "I" am lying and you never said that. I never said you did. But a lot of people here have. And you have made many remarks as well.
"D" how many OAD are the limit? One? Two? Three? If you get just one, are you still respected? Is three to many? But two is okay? What if Roy lands five in a single season? Are you so freaking mad that you're going to despise the last three OAD's?
Nope, you're going to enjoy them. Like any fan would.
But proceed to trash me or talk Down to me. I guarantee we'll have this conversation in the next two years and you'll love having thes kids.
That's all that will be is a what if scenario,there is not 5 OADS that will sign with UNC at one time because roy prefers having experienced players in his mix.It showed more than anything this past season.
So Hell, half of this board wanted Roy fired before the season started. You know what I stated was true and don't understand why you're offended.
What is not true is that half of this board wanted Roy fired.
Gracious! You getting your "facts" more twisted with each post jc.
YES! We hate the OAD RULE not the players! YES kids should be allowed to go straight out of High School.
Who says they don't want Roy recruiting OAD players? Most of us simply don't want our team built around them.
But alas, you looking thru the wrong shade of Blue glasses.
YES! We hate the OAD RULE not the players! YES kids should be allowed to go straight out of High School.
Who says they don't want Roy recruiting OAD players? Most of us simply don't want our team built around them.
But alas, you looking thru the wrong shade of Blue glasses.
Are you surprised? Every thread he is in over here has him in issues with posters.
its easier to comment to your short post than to D's. No disrespect D. But I'll reply to both of you.
I reread my previous post, what was I wrong in saying?
To Mike, you're a mod and you read everything here. Is it not true that a lot of people here has said multiple times they hate OAD? Have they also said that Roy doesn't recruit them? Have they also said that if UNC recruits OAD's and gets them then they would stop watching basketball? Of course you've read this. Did I ever say "YOU" said this? No. So I don't know where you think I brought you into these people. You have always defended UNC and Roy. Hell, half of this board wanted Roy fired before the season started. You know what I stated was true and don't understand why you're offended.
And "D", why do you always want to come to this boards defense when it doesn't pertain to you? Did I specify you? Or did I say people on this board?
I love your loyalty. Hell, that's the reason I love you to death. But don't come to me with a book long response about how "I" am lying and you never said that. I never said you did. But a lot of people here have. And you have made many remarks as well.
"D" how many OAD are the limit? One? Two? Three? If you get just one, are you still respected? Is three to many? But two is okay? What if Roy lands five in a single season? Are you so freaking mad that you're going to despise the last three OAD's?
Nope, you're going to enjoy them. Like any fan would.
But proceed to trash me or talk Down to me. I guarantee we'll have this conversation in the next two years and you'll love having thes kids.
I was very respectful to your post in my reply JC and will always be toward you. But you present it as if the majority of UNC fans do not want any one & done players and now say you have seen that many times on this board. WHERE? Where are those many posts on this board that say they do not want a one & done? All I ever see is UNC fans wanting badly individual one & done players with the very constant theme that we do not want to load up on them.
How any is to many, why not ask Ky fans that bemoaned your lack of experienced players this past season, ask them how many one & dones is to many? As for me, I would prefer no more than 2 in any class, I believe if you have 2 and mix them in with experienced talent you have a formidable team. One with a handler that feels he can tell our coach how to coach his team is to many, some try that and some just want whats best for the kid. But I don't want to see the back room dealers start flocking to UNC, que up the article on William Wesley if you feel you need to understand that better.
They flaw in your thinking JC is that you can't tell the difference between Roy and Kal, Roy is simply not going to bring in 5 one & done kids in a class, it isn't the way he sets his program up and it never has been.
And don't forget this JC, way back when Kal was at memphis, Ky fans hated him just as much as we do today because of the fact that there is nothing he will not do to add a win or 2. Pull kids from diploma mills was never a problem for kal before coming to KY and was hated by Ky fans then, now he pulls them from a diploma mill and all the sudden he is worshipped in Ky? UNC fans have been consistent thru all of this, you guys seem to change your mind like you change your underwear and in some cases more often. Duke fans as you mention have as well adopted the one & done approach, clearly they stand for nothing as well, at least UNC has stood for the same thing consistently.
How many are to many for you JC, 6, 7?
You have been reading and exchanging with me how long now? And all the sudden now the fact that I write long replies becomes a problem? That is the kind of responce I get from folks that know I have them cornered and can not reply to what I said so they come back with he writes to long, I can't read that much, duh...For example of that checkout the dukies board, those folks can't read more than 5 words at the same sit and understand much less hold a reasonable discussion. You can, I appreciate that you can, so don't resort to the cheap stuff, you better than that man.
And for the record, I do not trash you nor do I down talk you JC, I have always been respectful toward you...
it doesn't bother me at all.
What bothers me is the NBA forcing kids to go to college if they don't want to. I understand a lot of NBA teams in the past drafted and invested a lot of money into them and a lot were a bust. So that's why they started the one year deal.
But as far as my personal opinion about one year guys, it doesn't bother me. They didn't have a option and they represented UK very well. Hell, those one and dones come back year after to games, Madness, off season, etc... Most have established organizations in their new NBA town to help kids, animals, etc...
I really don't understand why anyone would hate one and done players. I also don't understand why anyone wouldn't want them on their team. Because if they are one and done, more than likely they're going to help your team.
If you're asking me if I would like to have Wall, Cousins, Bledsoe, Davis, MKG, Knight, Randle, Young, KAT, etc... For four years? Hell yes I would. And if you're asking me if one and dones have been a problem at UK? No they haven't.
I love my team. We've had four year players as well as OAD. I love them all. Anyone that comes to UK I support. As long as they do the right thing while here.
I've never understood anyone from any fanbase having a problem with a kid being forced to play one year of college. Let alone say they don't want that player. That they want a 4 year player.
That makes me SMH. You'd rather have a player that will stay four years(In which means that 99.9% of those players want see the NBA) But you don't want a OAD player which more than likely 80% will get drafted.
I'm sorry, but I'll take talent over experience. In the real world, experience and talent would be awesome. But NBA talent want stay around to get experience. That's true.
To be honest Mike, my friends I talk to on the Duke boards felt the same way UNC fans feel here about the OAD player until they started getting them. Now, they embrace them as much as a four year player. And they should. Because that OAD player is no less of a player for their program than a four year player.
And trust me Mike, in a couple of years y'all will be opening your arms to the OAD done players as well. I guarantee it. Y'all will be defending them with your last breath. But y'all (along with everyone else's fanbase including ours) will try to say their OAD players aren't like other OAD players.
The cloud over UNC basketball has been lifted. And Roy has said many times that he recruits the same players UK and Duke recruits. But that cloud has hurt him in recruiting. That's his words.
Now, Roy doesn't have to worry about that anymore. And I figure next year he will land some OAD's. And I can't wait. Because just to see this board for the last few years swear off OAD players will turn right around and praise the same kids they have swore if they ever committed to UNC then they would stop watching UNC basketball.
With that being said, I hope you're doing good buddy. I think about you all the time. You know I'm a cancer survivor myself but never had to go through what you have. I'll keep sending prayers up to the big guy in the sky and you just kick the shit out of this disease. I love you buddy. Hold down the fort.
1 - A OAD player is not like a 4 year player. No. False. Wrong. There is no way in hell you can compare the hard work, dedication and sacrifices that a player made for 8 months versus the hard work, dedication and sacrifices that a player made for 4 years. Just no way. I don't think anyone here "hates" OAD players. But what the one year rule has done is make us have a stronger appreciation for guys that like being in school, like being a college student and appear to have more to them than just being a basketball player. I think the idea that I could develop the same kind of admiration and appreciation for a one year player as I do for a 4 year player is absurd.
2 - Roy is wrong - kind of. I don't care what Roy said. I disagree with him as to why we're not landing OAD players. I'm sure the scandal hasn't helped recruiting any players - let alone OADs. But as we've discussed in many other threads, Roy doesn't land OAD players because basically, they're not going to be OAD here. And that word is on the street. So kids are looking elsewhere. For me personally, I'm ok with it. I wouldn't mind a OAD player every now and then (maybe 2-3 over a 10 year period of time). But I can deal with the system Roy has in place. He builds a championship caliber team every 3-4 years. I like the process. I like seeing guys struggle and go out in the Sweet 16 only to be driven to come back the next year and make a FF run. That's the fun part for me.
Yup, gets all up in arms that someone may have thrown a jab at his garbage program, and then posts some 1000 word ball of crap poking at our team/fans - but then ends it with a "oh but you guys know we're friends"
Sooner or later that BS is gonna wear out its welcome with the mods and he'll be banned. Sure as hell has already worn out its welcome with me.
me too. watching a player develop over 3 or 4 years and developing a loyalty for that player is what i love most about college basketball. my favorite recent example: brice johnson! a few years ago it was hard to imagine he would be as strong and well-rounded player as we saw his senior year. congratulations to roy and his staff for their excellent coaching with this young man, and most of all to brice himself for all his hard work and sticking around 4 years. GO HEELS!!!
I get where ya coming from hark but I don't see it that way. I actually enjoy fans of other programs that will post here and discuss respectfully. I hate we do not have more, for me it is more fun to get in to a really good debate with a rival fan than a Tar Heel because I love to play hard ball, fair but hard ball none the less. As long as a rival fan wants to discuss respectfully I welcome them, I like to see opinions of others that don't always agree with me. Sometimes I really need to see opposing opinions else I get trapped in one line of thinking that may be flawed. I just want folks to be real in what they portray, I want them to respect this as a Tar Heel house and understand the rope they get here will be shorter than it is on their home site. If I were to go to their site I would absolutely obey that standard.
I think one of the main reasons you see me defend JC as I do, in addition to just him being a good person, is that I know how hard it is to post on a big time rivals site. Folks know you by your words at your home site and they just seem unable to discuss anything fairly with ya, they want to shout you down when you are not there for any other reason outside of looking for discussion. So when I see such things aimed at JC, yeah, I try to defend him as best I can, I do believe he would do the same for me if I tried to post on Rupps.
As you see in this thread, if I disagree with JC I tell him and why, if I see him say something that I don't think is fair I call him on it, he would do no less to me on Rupps. he knows, I play hard but he as well knows I play fair, he wouldn't want it any other way.
Ya know jimmy, you kinda hint at an interesting tangent that I have long believed. I honestly think coaches that get so much big time talent tend to lose their edge as a coach in developing players. Roy has not got a ton of top 10 recruits over the last few years but the fact that he has not has to me forced to become an even better coach. I see an increase in player development from one season to the next more so than I did earlier in his career, even early in his being back at UNC.
Roy seems to work harder over the last couple years as a floor coach, believe it or not Roy has actually had his teams go to a zone defense in the last couple years. Look even now, when was the last time you saw UNC have this many jump shooters, he is moving more & more to making the 3pt shot a key to his offense. When you don't have the same level of talent the other guy has you have to work harder to make up the difference and Roy seems to be having to work double hard over the last few years.
The attribute Roy used to be known for was recruiting but now days that isn't really what defines him or his teams, for the last few years it has been more about player development and keeping teams chemistry in tact. I think that has been an interesting turn in events.
On the other end of that IMO is K, not to long ago K was a master at working a game and preparing his team, his individual players for opponent tendencys, if a guard was right hand dominate K's teams would ALWAYS hedge his right hand and force him to use that left hand. Ks teams used to be nightmares to play their man to man defense but the last few years he has seemed to me to get comfortable with having elevated talent levels and they don't defend nearly as tuff as they used to.
I know this will be an unpopular opinion on here, but I would prefer OAD-type players over 3- and 4-year players if it meant a better chance at a national championship. My opinion/desire comes with this caveat: when I say I want Carolina to recruit OAD-type players, I do not mean the ones with handlers or other shady baggage. But if there are OAD players out there who pass Carolina's vetting process, then I'd prefer we land those guys.
Is it fun to watch guys like Paige develop over four years? Yes, of course it is. But it's kinda ridiculous (IMO) how this fanbase has come to regard one-and-done players as some form of modern lepers that should be shunned. Do you know why players jump to the league after just one year? Because they're good enough to do it! That's just how it is. There are a select few 17- and 18-year-olds every year who are good enough to jump to the NBA and stick on a roster. Do you know why college football players don't try to challenge the rule and jump to the NFL before their three years is up? Because they know they physically are not ready for the NFL; they know they'd get crushed and wouldn't make a team. If players were regularly good enough to jump to the NFL after one year of college ball, they'd challenge to do so.
That's my view on it. These elite basketball recruits are good enough to go pro.....why not enlist the services of a pro-level guy for a year? Seems like tying one arm behind your back if you don't.
Is it fun to watch guys like Paige develop over four years? Yes, of course it is. But it's kinda ridiculous (IMO) how this fanbase has come to regard one-and-done players as some form of modern lepers that should be shunned. Do you know why players jump to the league after just one year? Because they're good enough to do it! That's just how it is. There are a select few 17- and 18-year-olds every year who are good enough to jump to the NBA and stick on a roster. Do you know why college football players don't try to challenge the rule and jump to the NFL before their three years is up? Because they know they physically are not ready for the NFL; they know they'd get crushed and wouldn't make a team. If players were regularly good enough to jump to the NFL after one year of college ball, they'd challenge to do so.
That's my view on it. These elite basketball recruits are good enough to go pro.....why not enlist the services of a pro-level guy for a year? Seems like tying one arm behind your back if you don't.
Why is it so hard to leave out the snide back handed comments from his responses? I don't know him from Adam so it is hard for me to judge if he is a "good person" or not; but I read and comprehend well and he always slips in passive aggressive jabs. I could accept most of what he says, (even though this recent commentary had nary a true word), but I see too many instances of unnecessary proclamations that are identical to the ABCers that they are hard to ignore! If it walks like a troll, and quacks like a troll........
I have never seen posts by Tar Heel fans who say they don't want OADs! -This is patented ABC lying!
Y'all will be saying you LOVE OAD teams after you recruit team full of them-This is ABC wishful thinking.
UNC fans wanted to fire Roy.- This was said by an insignificant, emotional, and idiotic few, most of which are bandwagon fans or trolls-ABcers ALWAYS use this lie as a fact.
I have never found sincere courtesy all that difficult!
I have never seen posts by Tar Heel fans who say they don't want OADs! -This is patented ABC lying!
Y'all will be saying you LOVE OAD teams after you recruit team full of them-This is ABC wishful thinking.
UNC fans wanted to fire Roy.- This was said by an insignificant, emotional, and idiotic few, most of which are bandwagon fans or trolls-ABcers ALWAYS use this lie as a fact.
I have never found sincere courtesy all that difficult!
We WANT OADs!
WE DON'T WANT an ENTIRE team of them. We think the mix gives you a better chance of wining consistently!
Why is this so hard a concept for peeps to accept?
WE DON'T WANT an ENTIRE team of them. We think the mix gives you a better chance of wining consistently!
Why is this so hard a concept for peeps to accept?
I completely disagree with all of that. If all you care about is winning a title, then yeah. But some of us enjoy other aspects of UNC athletic programs. Like, watching Marcus grow and develop over the past 4 years is worth to me than had he won a championship as a freshman and then left. That's for real. I have enjoyed him so much that I would rather have not won a title if it meant him leaving. Same with Hansbrough, granted he did both - stayed 4 years and won a title. But the point is, that having a legendary player that I can tell my grandkids about is worth more to me than a bunch of mercenaries who haven't endeared themselves to me (because like a woman, that takes time for me) winning a title. And to have the view that you do is disappointing and what I expect of UK fans and millennials. Sorry/not sorry.
Hey, different strokes for different folks. If you'll calm down a second though and re-read my post, you'll see that I too pointed out the fun of watching a guy like Marcus develop. I am not disputing the thrill of that whatsoever. What am I saying is mix them. There's no reason you can't have 3- and 4-year guys in addition to OAD elite talent. Both can co-exist. I've heard Roy say, with his own mouth, that he prefers multi-year players and in a perfect world, would prefer not to recruit OAD players. That's pretty silly to me.
I also think (again, this is my opinion) that it's a little pretentious when Carolina fans say "well he was only here for a year or two years, so they didn't really endear themselves to me." That's a you problem, not a UNC problem. It is also laughable to me that you and others refer to OAD-level recruits as "mercenaries." Why are they mercenaries? Because they want to go to the league but can't yet? I bet Marcus Paige wants to play in the NBA.....where he'll get paid. He's then a mercenary too, by definition.
I think (again, my opinion) that the rise of the OAD concept coupled with the fact that Carolina virtually never lands OAD players has provided a convenient platform for Carolina basketball fans to claim the moral high ground and say "well we don't recruit THAT type of player." And that narrative is bought into by a lot of the fanbase now.
Calm down? Who's excited? If my post came off as one with heightened tone, it was probably just because I'm right and when I'm right, I speak very matter-of-factly.
I would prefer for every student that played every sport at UNC to be there for at least 3 years. It doesn't mean I hate the ones that aren't. It just means I prefer it.
As far as kids not endearing themselves to me...ok, so it's a me problem. I don't really care about you problems. So I care about me problems. Nonetheless, they don't endear themselves to me in 8 months time. If they do for you and you don't care about watching a player grow and develop, then goodie for you. I guess things are set up well for your ilk.
I call them mercenaries because they are hired guns with little or no investment in the school. You mentioning Marcus Paige makes no sense and is downright silly. You obviously didn't see his senior night speech.
I don't have a hypothesis on the suppos d narrative. I know what I like and what I don't like. If that comes across as "holier-than-thou", then so be it. I can promise I won't waste any time wondering how my opinion paints me.
You're not answering or even addressing any of my points. You're just stating your own personal wants and preferences.
Let me first go back to Paige for a second. Let me make this perfectly clear: Marcus Paige is one of my Top 10 favorite Tar Heels of all time, easily, regardless of sport. Heck he's probably Top 5. So don't think that I want nothing but OAD players. For one, I also like seeing the development of long-term players. Secondly, recent history (think: Kentucky's teams) has shown that you probably aren't going to win a championship with just OAD players. You need a mix of long-term "program guys" and elite-level one-year guys.
If I could make the rules, I'd make it two required seasons in college, but I don't make the rules. The rule is what it is, and the NBA doesn't really have a reason to alter the rule. Therefore, everyone (including Roy) needs to make peace with the fact that OAD players will exist every recruiting cycle. Roy is getting paid a lot of money to put together a national championship-caliber program every season. It doesn't make a ton of sense for him to hamstring himself a bit on that, simply to adhere to his own beliefs that Carolina should sparingly recruit OAD-caliber players. The problem is the rule -- not the players. Be mad at the NBA's rule, not at the players who are forced to wait a year after graduating HS to go pro. It's easy to say "well he can just go to Europe for a year if he has no interest in college," but come on......would you do that in their position? Heck no you wouldn't. That's a ton of trouble to go overseas and learn Italian or Spanish or whatever just for one year, while receiving drastically less marketing and U.S. TV exposure (which is important for potential self-brand building) than you'd receive by playing a year of college ball.
I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out what they are. It seems as if yesterday was one of those days when you just want to come over to Raiser and be disagreeable.
This part is true. This is a main theme in my poasting. I do this a lot. Message boards are for opinions.
Ok...I agree with the first part but not with the last sentence. Nova did not have elite level one year guys and neither did we and we played for the championship. So recent history would shoot holes in that hypothesis.
I understand what the rule is. I'm fully aware that neither you nor I make the rules. I made peace with it years ago when it was adopted. I don't have to like it and I don't have to support taking advantage of it.
Ahh, I see now where you went wrong. But it's an easy fix so pay attention. Roy is not paid well to "put together a national championship caliber program every season". He's paid well to put a good product on the floor every year, build leaders, mentor and educate the men that play for him and represent the University in a positive light. That's what he's paid to do. If he were paid to put a title contender on the floor every year, then he would have been fired by now because if you've noticed, we don't win the title every year. There's more to our program than winning. Thank goodness Roy subscribes to that philosophy.
Maybe it's not hamstringing himself. Maybe Roy sees issues with many OAD players that he feels will erode at the chemistry his teams have worked to create. Maybe Roy sees that many OADs are me first guys that need the ball in their hands and aren't built to buy into the team concept. Maybe Roy believes that it's simply not worth it. That's his call. Not yours or UK and duke fans. He's been entrusted to run the program as he sees fit. And apparently the way he sees fit is to tell recruits to think about your senior year in our program and work backwards. That to me says that Roy has little use for a player that only wants to be in CH for less than one year. Like I said, I think Roy still recruits potential OADs hoping that they'll change their mind about being OAD. And I think Roy sends the message with his actions that upperclassmen get the benefit of the doubt based on their loyalty to the program and putting in the work over the course of several years. I'm glad Roy rewards those guys. They deserve it. If that means OADs don't see UNC as a good fit, I'm perfectly happy with that. If that doesn't suit you, then that's a you problem and not a UNC problem.
No, he's paid to put as good of a team as possible on the court every season. Yes, showing the university in a positive light and mentoring young men is part of his job, but those parts are ancillary to winning. This is big-time athletics, not the Boy Scouts. I don't mind that he recruits 3- and 4-year guys and I like the character of most of the guys he brings in, BUT if he doesn't bring in elite OAD-type talent to go with it, we're not going to win natty's, as evidenced by our 7-year drought.
I can get on board with this, but I'm not gonna believe that 100% of OAD guys are me-first and "bad" guys. That's why I couched my argument with them having to pass UNC/Roy's vetting process first, and then go after them. As to the second part I underlined, I mean, it can ultimately be a UNC problem if Roy keeps failing to win national championships. Eventually, that will force a change. Not next season nor the season after, but eventually it would force Carolina to make a change. The purpose is to win. I like that Carolina is maintaining its desire to recruit high-character guys that show the university in a good light, but ultimately the goal is to win.
We were a miracle shot away from winning the title DOING IT ROY'S WAY. And we were beaten by a team that does it Roy's way. What better proof could you need to see that your assertion that if Roy doesn't start landing OAD players we're doomed, is wrong?
What constitutes a good product at UNC though? Fair or not UNC has higher standards than most teams. There are plenty of teams that would be happy winning 20-25 games every year, make the tourney most years and getting to the occasional sweet 16. That's not considered a good product by UNC standards. That might not be fair, but he is getting paid money to do better than that.
Why even waste so much time recruiting kids that are one and done on the off chance they change their mind? There was almost no chance a player like Ingram would stay for more than one year, but Roy recruited him heavily. Roy would have been one of the first people to tell him to enter the draft after his freshman season too. I think you are getting too hung up on the "looking at a senior year" comment he made. In my opinion he's just letting recruits/players know that when the time comes to make that decision that they should always take everything into account and make the decision that's best for them.
Because every college basketball analyst in the country repeatedly said last year that there were no dominant teams and that is was one of the weaker overall fields in college basketball recent history. Do you not think that's one reason Villanova was able to advance so far? Look at our tourney run.....our Final Four opponent was a damn double-digit team who arguably shouldn't have even made the tourney.
What constitutes a good product at UNC though? Fair or not UNC has higher standards than most teams. There are plenty of teams that would be happy winning 20-25 games every year, make the tourney most years and getting to the occasional sweet 16. That's not considered a good product by UNC standards. That might not be fair, but he is getting paid money to do better than that.
Exactly my point.
This circular argument about nothing is why the off-season sux!
ROY RECRUITS OADS! HE NEVER SAID HE WOULDN'T, HE SAID HE PREFERRED PEEPS WITH SOME DESIRE TO GROW IN COLLEGE.
UNC does NOT put ANY limitations or expectations on how Roy builds a team; he has the 100% support of all decision makers and 100% autonomy in the makeup of the team. Roy will coach until he WANTS to leave regardless of records.
I prefer to get 1-2 OADs and mix them with experienced talent that goes at least 10 deep. This formula wins, but takes time to build.
I would rather have a 4 star that loves bball and UNC than a 5 star who is only interested in auditioning for the NBA.
However,
I am a Tar Heel first, so if Roy changes and goes the route of shady and ratty; I will cheer for my Heels just as passionately!
ROY RECRUITS OADS! HE NEVER SAID HE WOULDN'T, HE SAID HE PREFERRED PEEPS WITH SOME DESIRE TO GROW IN COLLEGE.
UNC does NOT put ANY limitations or expectations on how Roy builds a team; he has the 100% support of all decision makers and 100% autonomy in the makeup of the team. Roy will coach until he WANTS to leave regardless of records.
I prefer to get 1-2 OADs and mix them with experienced talent that goes at least 10 deep. This formula wins, but takes time to build.
I would rather have a 4 star that loves bball and UNC than a 5 star who is only interested in auditioning for the NBA.
However,
I am a Tar Heel first, so if Roy changes and goes the route of shady and ratty; I will cheer for my Heels just as passionately!
That's the popular line, but if Roy has 2-3 seasons in a row where we don't get into the tourney then I would imaging there would be plenty of people to suggest that they are worried about his health and maybe he should step down. Luckily he is a good enough coach that the chances of this happening is almost non existent.
I think that's the best way to do it. You need to find a middle ground between all one and done teams and no one and done teams. Kentucky has shown that the all one and done team is not a strategy that pays off all of the time. They have just as many NIT appearances as they do titles under Cal. You could even argue that his title team was his most experienced team at UK
