ADVERTISEMENT

Joel Berry’s lack of Respect

A small quibble - I don't like the words you used. I won't agree that Shamet has been individually better. I'll agree that his individual stats are better. As I've acknowledged, I don't think Berry is deserving of the award strictly based on a stats driven rationale. But if you replace Berry with Shamet on our team, we're absolutely no better than we are now and most likely worse. Berry is the kind of player that stats can't measure his true value to our team - especially our team. Maybe it wouldn't be so much like that if Berry was playing in a different system. But Berry is the engine for us and his shooting %, usage rate, PER and all the other overanalyzing stats don't mean much in the grand scheme of team play.

Yeah, but Shamet is also the kinda guy that stats don't measure how impactful he is to that Witchy team.

I've watched at least 6-7 of their games (I like betting on their games for some reason) and he is their engine.

I'd argue these two are equally important to their team's success and Shamet this season has been better in almost every stat.

That's why I say Shamet has had the better season thus far.
 
those "facts" as you call them are not created in a vacuum. Something to remember.


well, here are the facts:

-He is shooting under 40% from the field
-He barely averages 3 assists per game in arguably the most PG friendly system in the country. Larry Drew averaged twice as many

Again, I'll take JBII on my team over all of them because he's a proven winner and plays like a dog, but he hasnt done anything to warrant being on any national merit lists THIS YEAR
 
The only fact that matters is who is better to lead UNC playing in Roy's system? I don't really care if other guards are listed ahead of the Dog since I never look at AA lists! My only concern with these popularity contests is that sometimes a UNC player gets on there and non-UNC fans can appreciate one of our own a little better. I hope they leave the Dog off every list because he is great , eerily similar to his coach, at using slights as fuel!

If anyone would take Young, Brunson, or whoever Shamet is over the Dog after the last two years, then this would actually indicate an appalling lack of bball knowledge in general and UNC bball specifically! (And once again, the personal attacks reveal the maturity level of our posters! )
 
Wow i had no idea hes under 3 assists/gm. Thats gotta be very low for a unc starting pg. You wont get, or frankly deserve, much natl recognition with that stat. Still love him though.

Eta i’ve googled every single starting pg in my era othat i can remember, larry drew ii was the only one under 3apg. No otheres were under 3 apg or even 4 for that matter. Might have left some out

Lawson
Paige
Marshall
Felton
Cota
Smith
Phelps
Ford
Black
Rice

This isnt to bash berry. Its just bizarre given how good he is and important to the team that assists would be so low.
 
Last edited:
They're glaringly useless. Seriously, if you want to live in a virtual world and continue to spend your time looking up stuff to make yourself sound knowledgeable, go right ahead.

You can make up your own definitions too. Enjoy yourself. At some point it actually has to mean something in context of the actual game and system in which its used. Otherwise its little more than statistical wanking. Hell, Dean Smith all but invented the use of what some call "metrics" in basketball and he would most likely roll his eyes if not LHFAO at some of the stuff you trot out.

Right now I'm rolling my own eyes at these incessant tiresome arguments. I'm done with it, but since you like numbers so much, I'll just leave you with this: A metric Dean quite literally invented (that has become a go-to because of its usefulness) is Points Per Possession (PPP), a number most teams hope they can get over 1.0. I saw a stat from this season that when JB is in the game vs when he's not makes a .44 net difference in our PPP vs our opponents' (in other words it covers offense and defense). Given the small ranges dealt with (from 0 to just over 1), a .44 team turn-around from one player is astounding.

Get this straight: No one is arguing that JB's individual efficiency numbers are up to his standards thus far this season. They are clearly not. However, as I tried (probably in vain) to explain to another arguer, that can be traced directly to his hand injury and the compensation both during and after, plus as Roy (who knows a little bit about these things) said, he then started pressing to recapture his mojo, not to mention all the while trying to wrangle struggling freshman Bigs into being a component of our inside-out game in a mostly free-lance offense.

And finally (and of course overlooked) is the fact that, like a great baseball player who is in a temporary slump at the plate but continues to play great in the field, Joel puts on a nightly clinic on defending from the Point (that none of these other PGs can touch) whilst running the system in a manner that puts his team first over trying to ring up individual stats --- all the while putting in the work to get his offensive efficiency back clicking to his standards.

I judge great players by the entirety of their impact on the team and the system in which they're operating. You can judge them any way you want. And I'll start my ideal college team with Joel F***ing Berry. You start yours with whomever else is out there, and as the old southern coach saying goes, "his'n will beat your'n" way more often than not.

Over and out.

I mean obviously our PPP vs opponents will go down a lot without our starting PG and one of our best players... That's common sense Gary.

Your team would be awful if you pick Joel Berry to start your team with (this is coming from a Berry fan). I can name at least 20 guys I would rather have than him if I'm starting a team today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pln2013
I mean obviously our PPP vs opponents will go down a lot without our starting PG and one of our best players... That's common sense Gary.

Your team would be awful if you pick Joel Berry to start your team with (this is coming from a Berry fan). I can name at least 20 guys I would rather have than him if I'm starting a team today.
And once again it flies over your head if you think anyone having a .44 impact is just "common sense". But then, that seems to be par for the course.

As for your last statement, LMFAO.
 
Wow i had no idea hes under 3 assists/gm. Thats gotta be very low for a unc starting pg. You wont get, or frankly deserve, much natl recognition with that stat. Still love him though.

Eta i’ve googled every single starting pg in my era othat i can remember, larry drew ii was the only one under 3apg. No otheres were under 3 apg or even 4 for that matter. Might have left some out

Lawson
Paige
Marshall
Felton
Cota
Smith
Phelps
Ford
Black
Rice

This isnt to bash berry. Its just bizarre given how good he is and important to the team that assists would be so low.

Berry is a new age scoring PG. I would expect his assist to be low. I expect Cody White assists to be low if he play PG at UNC too.
 
And once again it flies over your head if you think anyone having a .44 impact is just "common sense". But then, that seems to be par for the course.

As for your last statement, LMFAO.

I said obviously our team gets worse with Berry off the court - never disputed the impact he has on the team with .44 PPP difference.

I mean I love Berry but he's not even one of the top 5 PG's in the country. He's not having a very good year so far and 3 APG is pretty pitiful in UNC's system. He has time to turn it around though.
 
The only fact that matters is who is better to lead UNC playing in Roy's system? I don't really care if other guards are listed ahead of the Dog since I never look at AA lists! My only concern with these popularity contests is that sometimes a UNC player gets on there and non-UNC fans can appreciate one of our own a little better. I hope they leave the Dog off every list because he is great , eerily similar to his coach, at using slights as fuel!

If anyone would take Young, Brunson, or whoever Shamet is over the Dog after the last two years, then this would actually indicate an appalling lack of bball knowledge in general and UNC bball specifically! (And once again, the personal attacks reveal the maturity level of our posters! )
Hi TPFKAPFS...SMILE...go get'em. If you can't say something GOOD about our UNC TAR HEELS,PLEASE go to another web site...BLESS ALL OF YOUR HEARTS

!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU GO TPFKAPFS !!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT