Late stuff (uk game)...

[ChiShankCity]

Jalen Washington is averaging 6.0 fouls committed per 40 minutes. That doesn't mean that will happen when he starts. With his reduced minutes, a couple of games with a lot of fouls probably skewed that number. But last year he averaged 5.7 fouls committed per 40 minutes. So there is some sample that defending without fouling is something he needs to work on.

I wouldn't change the starting lineup if it were up to me. I just think Bacot needs to play better. I do think Washington should get more minutes though.

 

[DSouthr]

And I agree

Jalen Washington is averaging 6.0 fouls committed per 40 minutes. That doesn't mean that will happen when he starts. With his reduced minutes, a couple of games with a lot of fouls probably skewed that number. But last year he averaged 5.7 fouls committed per 40 minutes. So there is some sample that defending without fouling is something he needs to work on.

I wouldn't change the starting lineup if it were up to me. I just think Bacot needs to play better. I do think Washington should get more minutes though.

I agree, Jalen does strongly need to work on his defense, I never said he didn't. But a kid that was well respected that is getting the low minutes Jalen is tends to try to do to much at times and that usually ends up with a foul call, a rushed shot, or a bad TO; Withers is dealing with the very same issue.

I as well agree, Bacot is being out worked, Bradshaw out worked him for Ky, he was out worked pretty much the whole Bahamas trip. For a guy that went thru the awful injury plagues season with Roy as a freshman, to get to the natty game and be up big at the half and his being really limited with that ankle, had to watch as his team sank in that second half of the natty game. Then go thru all the terrible press of going from the team everyone favored to win it all as well as he himself being a front runner for NCAA POY (pre-season) and to see the historic fall from grace last season? You would expect there to be a fire in his belly that only winning the natty could cool off and so far that fire has been MIA.

 

[al would]

Idk where this optimism on Washington is coming from. He's tall and can shoot, which is a great combo, but he can't defend even at the college level. To be honest I'm worried about him ever starting at UNC. Even if he put on muscle to rebound better, he is too slow to defend anybody.

Fair points. My optimism springs from the fact he has great length and a really nice touch on his shots and you have to remember this kid has basically been injured, or recovering from an injury since HS. And when did great defense mean a lot in the pro's? Not sure it means much at UNC anymore.

 

[al would]

You would expect there to be a fire in his belly that only winning the natty could cool off and so far that fire has been MIA.

Sometimes you can have the heart of a thoroughbred without actually being one. Nicest way I could put it.

 

[2DDIMOND]

Is he? 27% career shooter from 3.

75% this year. 0% last year.

Both on 4 attempts total. Relatively completely uncovered for all 8 attempts as well.

Wouldn't it make more sense to put more weight on this year's numbers since he obviously is more comfortable this year, than to use last year's numbers when he was a deer in the headlights? If you were in sales and had a shitty year the year before, but a great year this year, would you want your boss to stiff you on a bonus by including your numbers from the year before with your numbers this year?

 

[ChiShankCity]

Wouldn't it make more sense to put more weight on this year's numbers since he obviously is more comfortable this year, than to use last year's numbers when he was a deer in the headlights? If you were in sales and had a shitty year the year before, but a great year this year, would you want your boss to stiff you on a bonus by including your numbers from the year before with your numbers this year?

I would play Washington more not for his size or rebounding potential. I would play him more because he can score more easily than Withers can.

 

[dtodd4475]

I said this on the video someone posted of him in the off-season. The surgery has made him too slow now. He gets burned over and over defensively and has no real burst to do more than use height to shoot over someone.

Don't know about too slow for an adjusted style, he is still adjusting to his post injury form. Kid was a different skill set prior. He's a spot up Scott Williams type now. That could work, but it's an adjustment, because it is not what he was pre injuries.

 

[gauchoheel]

Fair points. My optimism springs from the fact he has great length and a really nice touch on his shots and you have to remember this kid has basically been injured, or recovering from an injury since HS. And when did great defense mean a lot in the pro's? Not sure it means much at UNC anymore.

Defense is very important at the NBA level. Most NBA guys were good college defenders, certainly if they stayed until they are upperclassmen. And usually the big guys in the NBA aren't stiffs who can't move laterally, otherwise they get killed in space.

 

[imajericho]

LOLOLOL

Dude, have you watched our guards play? LOL Now ya want to talk a lack of defending, watch our guards not named Seth, it is really bad. It is so bad that we are now using a junk defense as our primary defense because our guards are not staying in front of their primary assignment, especially late shot clock. You know how you keep a guy from driving you late in the shot clock, you get to the spot before he does, it ain't rocket science. You DO NOT SWITCH UNLESS YOU ARE FORCED TO other wise you create confusion in your own players. Oh, you want guys to block out so we can maybe get a rebound and yet those guys are not real sure who there defender is much less where LOL.

So this makes Washington a good defender or...? What was the point of this post?

 

[imajericho]

Oh no, for so many reasons you don't get to down grade him, lowering his stats by including last season, that is not fair to the kid or this discussion. Kid is playing what 7-8mins a game and you point to his low shot numbers? Excuse me but isn't the fact that he is taking clean open looks and dropping them with what looks like a really solid stoke, last I heard that was a great thing, when did taking and making really good clean shots become a problem? Would you prefer he have more Caleb Love like numbers and has a if it is leather it is a good shot approach?

Do you realize that Jalen is making 70% of his shots per the stats on this site, Bacot is at 52%, Seth is 53% and those are the guys closest to Jalen. By comparison Withers is shooting 39% over all and 14% from 3.

You are using a small sample size on wide open shots against lesser competition to make sweeping statements. I am saying nothing says he is this 3 level threat you make it seem like he is.

Nobody would say leaky was a 3 level threat when he was like 40% from 3 for awhile cuz no one would even cover him out there because they wanted him to shoot.

If you wanna use the small sample size of this season to say he is shooting 75% from 3, you can't discount the small sample size of 0% from the prior season.

Nothing says he is actually this threat right now just that the potential to be one is possibly there.

 

[imajericho]

Wouldn't it make more sense to put more weight on this year's numbers since he obviously is more comfortable this year, than to use last year's numbers when he was a deer in the headlights? If you were in sales and had a shitty year the year before, but a great year this year, would you want your boss to stiff you on a bonus by including your numbers from the year before with your numbers this year?

Not on a small sample size of 4 shots. We don't know if that will crater in simply 4 more shots or continue. Either way at 4 shots from 3 over like 12 game or whatever it isn't really a good idea to call him a legitimate threat at this point. He has a good stroke though.

 

[DSouthr]

You are using a small sample size on wide open shots against lesser competition to make sweeping statements. I am saying nothing says he is this 3 level threat you make it seem like he is.

Nobody would say leaky was a 3 level threat when he was like 40% from 3 for awhile cuz no one would even cover him out there because they wanted him to shoot.

If you wanna use the small sample size of this season to say he is shooting 75% from 3, you can't discount the small sample size of 0% from the prior season.

Nothing says he is actually this threat right now just that the potential to be one is possibly there.

Then what says he ISN"T a 3 level jump shooter? No matter the sample size, he so far has hit 75% of his treys and BTW, they all looked really good leaving his hand. Gonna bang on him for shooting 70% from the field, how about his hitting BOTH of his shots last night in his 5mins of PT? That 0% from last season was LAST season and we are now in THIS season? We are talking about this season, the ONLY season in the last what, 3yrs or so than he did not have to spend the entire off season rehabbing?

Go check for the season Jalen's over all shooting from the floor, you tell me what it is, you tell me how many he has taken and how many he has made and then try to tell me that he is not a scoring threat. I suspect if Jalen were 1 for 4 on treys rather than 3 for 4 you would not hesitate to share with me that he is shooting 25% from 3.

 

[montana_heel]

Don't know that we need him to float out to the 3. Guy is 6'10" with a 7'5" wingspan. 10 to 15 foot jumpers should be easy to get. Being is this area also gives him a better shot at crashing for an offensive board.

Defensively, I agree that he gets hurt because our guards put everyone else in mismatches by not sticking with their guy.

That and rebounding are the 2 biggest issues we face to becoming a viable national championship contender.

 

[DSouthr]

So this makes Washington a good defender or...? What was the point of this post?

First, I invite you or anyone else to look back and show me where I have said Jalen was a solid defender. You would be wasting your time because not only have I NEVER said that, I have clearly shared that he needs to put in a lot of work on that aspect of his game. Don't attribute words or imply words that I have not used.

Next, I am here to discuss not to argue. You are hung up in what seems to me to be a desire to argue more than discuss. The POINT and BTW the point was very clear was that I see no reason to bang on Jalen for his defensive lacking when we have a team that is defensively lacking. More so, we have a back court that has been a sieve and they play a heck of a lot more than Jalen does yet for some reason it is Jalen's lacking on defense as your main take away? And you actually have the set to talk about sample size of his shooting being small? I would tell you that Jalen playing 7mins a game average is a small sample size for his ability to defend. So which point would you like to run away from, his shooting sample size is to little or his defense sample size is to little?

 

[DSouthr]

Don't know that we need him to float out to the 3. Guy is 6'10" with a 7'5" wingspan. 10 to 15 foot jumpers should be easy to get. Being is this area also gives him a better shot at crashing for an offensive board.

Defensively, I agree that he gets hurt because our guards put everyone else in mismatches by not sticking with their guy.

That and rebounding are the 2 biggest issues we face to becoming a viable national championship contender.

Ding ding ding, ladies & gents, we have a winner! Solid Montana, appreciate it!

 

[al would]

Defensively, I agree that he gets hurt because our guards put everyone else in mismatches by not sticking with their guy.

Hammer meet nail !!

 

[imajericho]

First, I invite you or anyone else to look back and show me where I have said Jalen was a solid defender. You would be wasting your time because not only have I NEVER said that, I have clearly shared that he needs to put in a lot of work on that aspect of his game. Don't attribute words or imply words that I have not used.

Next, I am here to discuss not to argue. You are hung up in what seems to me to be a desire to argue more than discuss. The POINT and BTW the point was very clear was that I see no reason to bang on Jalen for his defensive lacking when we have a team that is defensively lacking. More so, we have a back court that has been a sieve and they play a heck of a lot more than Jalen does yet for some reason it is Jalen's lacking on defense as your main take away? And you actually have the set to talk about sample size of his shooting being small? I would tell you that Jalen playing 7mins a game average is a small sample size for his ability to defend. So which point would you like to run away from, his shooting sample size is to little or his defense sample size is to little?

My post was talking about Washington's speed and defense. You went off tangent about the guards. That's what I am trying to say. I talked about Washington's defense and you talked about someone else's defense. I am not sure if you meant its okay cuz others aren't good at defense in your opinion or what exactly you were going for in your response.

 

[imajericho]

First, I invite you or anyone else to look back and show me where I have said Jalen was a solid defender. You would be wasting your time because not only have I NEVER said that, I have clearly shared that he needs to put in a lot of work on that aspect of his game. Don't attribute words or imply words that I have not used.

Next, I am here to discuss not to argue. You are hung up in what seems to me to be a desire to argue more than discuss. The POINT and BTW the point was very clear was that I see no reason to bang on Jalen for his defensive lacking when we have a team that is defensively lacking. More so, we have a back court that has been a sieve and they play a heck of a lot more than Jalen does yet for some reason it is Jalen's lacking on defense as your main take away? And you actually have the set to talk about sample size of his shooting being small? I would tell you that Jalen playing 7mins a game average is a small sample size for his ability to defend. So which point would you like to run away from, his shooting sample size is to little or his defense sample size is to little?

His 3 point shooting is inconsistent on sample sizes. His defense has been consistent to show the same over both seasons. He is too slow to stay in front of 4s. He was regularly out of position badly last year. I haven't seen that as much this year, but he is still simply gone by on defense still.

 

[alabamaheel]

His 3 point shooting is inconsistent on sample sizes. His defense has been consistent to show the same over both seasons. He is too slow to stay in front of 4s. He was regularly out of position badly last year. I haven't seen that as much this year, but he is still simply gone by on defense still.

Just curious, do you think Seth’s shot has improved?

 

[imajericho]

Just curious, do you think Seth’s shot has improved?

I think it seems to, but I ain't ready to call him a deep threat by any means. I think the issue here is the usage of him being a 3 level threat.

I don't think anyone is really threatened by Washington on the perimeter right now. Or Trimble. Or Cadeau. Or Bacot. Etc. If he continues to keep nailing from 3, then I think the label is fitting. I haven't seen nearly enough yet.

 

[alabamaheel]

I think it seems to, but I ain't ready to call him a deep threat by any means. I think the issue here is the usage of him being a 3 level threat.

I don't think anyone is really threatened by Washington on the perimeter right now. Or Trimble. Or Cadeau. Or Bacot. Etc. If he continues to keep nailing from 3, then I think the label is fitting. I haven't seen nearly enough yet.

I totally agree, and like you I think there is improvement. I believe there’s that same improvement in Wash’s game also but I don’t think there’s enough sample size to call them good shooters. I do wish wash would get more of highs mins. High can’t catch a ball.

 

[dtodd4475]

I think Washington is still adjusting to his new physical makeup. Prior to the knee issues, he was a slasher, who also could shoot, crazy long, a top 5 ranked kid. Totally different game.

After he came back he played well on the AAU circuit, but was almost exclusively shooting, which he worked hard on while healing, shot it very well, but not near the same game style. He was then looked to be more of a stretch 4/5 type. Top 25/30 type prospect. He then had to go back under the knife. Top 60 type guy, while people waited to see the version he emerged from this time.

His lateral movement is almost a complete 180 from his top 5 prospect days, which is how he played for most if his life. He looks to be a stretch 5 type at the moment while showing decreased lateral movement ability.

His work ethic is great, he is young, and still adjusting to the cards he has been dealt. I'm okay with his usage so far. I also believe he will continue to grow into his new game. The best is yet to come from this version.

 

[DSouthr]

My post was talking about Washington's speed and defense. You went off tangent about the guards. That's what I am trying to say. I talked about Washington's defense and you talked about someone else's defense. I am not sure if you meant its okay cuz others aren't good at defense in your opinion or what exactly you were going for in your response.

My point was and continues to be that it makes no sense to me to single out Jalen's defense when the whole defense is lacking outside of Seth and at times Ingram. You are not able to see the underlying problem, it is the position Jalen is being put in that is more the problem. If you can't see that our guards are allowing big men to be switched on to what should be our guards responsibility then I don't know what to tell ya?

 

[imajericho]

My point was and continues to be that it makes no sense to me to single out Jalen's defense when the whole defense is lacking outside of Seth and at times Ingram. You are not able to see the underlying problem, it is the position Jalen is being put in that is more the problem. If you can't see that our guards are allowing big men to be switched on to what should be our guards responsibility then I don't know what to tell ya?

He is being blown past by his own person regularly, not just guards. Complete non-entity. It's actually him on screens that leaves the guards out to dry last season. Not sure if that has continued or not this year.

There was a perfect example of it last year versus I believe Clemson, when it seemed he was having a coming out party in the 1st half until the 2nd half where his defensive issues were entirely exposed. If you rewatch that game, you will see where he left a wide open basket for an easy layup from the 3 point line by hanging our guard, RJ, out to dry.

It's a weird hill to die on here, personally. We have a couple plus defenders, a couple average defenders, and a couple of horrendous ones. Washington would definitely fall in the horrendous slot from what we have seen so far in his career.

Trimble is good at pressuring the ball, but it does routinely end up with a late shot make by the person he is guarding. I am not entirely sure why that seems to happen a lot.

 

[dtodd4475]

He is being blown past by his own person regularly, not just guards. Complete non-entity. It's actually him on screens that leaves the guards out to dry last season. Not sure if that has continued or not this year.

There was a perfect example of it last year versus I believe Clemson, when it seemed he was having a coming out party in the 1st half until the 2nd half where his defensive issues were entirely exposed. If you rewatch that game, you will see where he left a wide open basket for an easy layup from the 3 point line by hanging our guard, RJ, out to dry.

It's a weird hill to die on here, personally. We have a couple plus defenders, a couple average defenders, and a couple of horrendous ones. Washington would definitely fall in the horrendous slot from what we have seen so far in his career.

Trimble is good at pressuring the ball, but it does routinely end up with a late shot make by the person he is guarding. I am not entirely sure why that seems to happen a lot.

I agree, except the last part, and I've followed the kid from 8th grade on. He is having trouble moving in space. His lateral basketball slides in space are very slow.

 

[DSouthr]

He is being blown past by his own person regularly, not just guards. Complete non-entity. It's actually him on screens that leaves the guards out to dry last season. Not sure if that has continued or not this year.

There was a perfect example of it last year versus I believe Clemson, when it seemed he was having a coming out party in the 1st half until the 2nd half where his defensive issues were entirely exposed. If you rewatch that game, you will see where he left a wide open basket for an easy layup from the 3 point line by hanging our guard, RJ, out to dry.

It's a weird hill to die on here, personally. We have a couple plus defenders, a couple average defenders, and a couple of horrendous ones. Washington would definitely fall in the horrendous slot from what we have seen so far in his career.

Trimble is good at pressuring the ball, but it does routinely end up with a late shot make by the person he is guarding. I am not entirely sure why that seems to happen a lot.

Why do you keep bringing up last season, last season has nothing at all to do with this season as it applies to Jalen, do I need to explain why it doesn't, I can if I need to but I would think I would need to?

Let's flash back to the Tenn game this season, a couple of those blow bys you are talking about. Ingram is on, I think Josiah James, 6'6" wing that weights in around 215-225 and puts the ball on the floor like you expect a wing to, well out front a few feet from half court. Jalen follows his man out to where Ingram and James are, Jalen's man sets a screen on Ingram, Jalen goes over the screen and is trailing James, would have liked to have seen either Jalen go under or Ingram pick James back up but as it happens James took a B-line to the rim from that far out and Jalen got no help. I suggest there is not a big man in the country that is going to catch James with he has the step on him.

Shortly afterward, we are playing that 5 way switch deal where our 5 man go to drop, which leaves someone wide open, Bacot does this a lot but this time it was Jalen that went to the drop. James pops wide open around the foul line so rather than give him a jump shot from the foul line Jalen steps to him and as he should James drove the pressure coming at him, you have Jalen moving to the defender and James drives, they are going opposite directions, of course James was able to drive by Jalen, he would have drove by most every big man in the college game in that situation. Yet directly following that the announcer says Roy has to get him out because he is not defending? He was defending, he was just caught in a bad situation. But that series has lite the fire of Jalen can't defend?

That is just 2 examples and neither say that Jalen is a outstanding defender but they don't say he is a poor one either, they are examples of how the switch 5 and drop one is a problem. Hubert adjusted the switching more against Okey, he needed to. Now IDK how much the injury stuff is still effecting Jalen, you don't go thru 2 knee surgeries on the same knee and be on the shelf for 2-3yrs and not come away from that with any ill effects. Nor do I know what the staff can see in practice with Jalen but I see a lot of folks making declarative statements about what the kid can and can not do but I don't see much backing it up? I will simply say that if Jalen had not had the injury you would still not expect him to successfully guard a ball handing strong wing 40ft from the basket nor any center for that matter.