NBA analying foul call errors

[northfan]

The NBA is issuing an after game review of foul call/non-call errors made during the last two minutes of each play-off game.
This would have been interesting re Heels game with Villanova as well as Texas and first dook games.

 

[DevilBlue]

The NBA is issuing an after game review of foul call/non-call errors made during the last two minutes of each play-off game.
This would have been interesting re Heels game with Villanova as well as Texas and first dook games.

The first Duke UNC game was called very well. Couple of calls for both teams, but evenly called. As somebody who has officiated college level sports(soccer) I would say that its pretty easy to sit in a booth with replay and criticize. I would defy anyone who thinks they can do better to actually go ref games and see its not so easy.

 

[Archer2]

No one said it's easy. But officiating was atrocious all year long.

 

[DevilBlue]

I don't think anything has changed from 20 year ago except basketball was much more physical so little stuff wasn't called. I don't care if officials call it loose, or close. I want it both ways. Bad calls will be made, and the ones later in the game will be more critiqued. I mean if its a close game and mid first half refs miss a shooting foul against one team, then miss the same call but against the other team with 30 seconds left in a tied game people flip out that the refs screwed one team when in reality people just focus on the one call with all the excitement of a close game with time running out. The human factor is still there and the talent perception calls(giving calls to people perceived for whatever reason to be better) are still all there. We just have better cameras and high def so we can watch everything over and over. I openly admit I have yelled at my tv for what I thought was an obvious foul only to be proven wrong by replay 2 minutes later, or I thought it was a clean all ball and replay proved otherwise. I don't have issue with the idea that more training and follow up is needed with refs, but this last two minute thing is stupid. You review the entire game and correct mistakes as much as possible not say first 46 minutes are good we only want to fix the last 2 minutes worth of mistakes.

 

[al would]

I don't watch NBA ball but considering the gambling $$ floating around there are probably few games that have no influence exerted. Doubt if college is any different.

 

[DevilBlue]

I don't watch NBA ball but considering the gambling $$ floating around there are probably few games that have no influence exerted. Doubt if college is any different.

Perhaps but until its proven you just have to assume and roll with it. Clearly its impossible to prevent some people from being dishonest.

 

[Archer2]

The first Duke UNC game was called very well. Couple of calls for both teams, but evenly called. As somebody who has officiated college level sports(soccer) I would say that its pretty easy to sit in a booth with replay and criticize. I would defy anyone who thinks they can do better to actually go ref games and see its not so easy.

As someone who has reffed gàmes, did you think the final game was called fairly?

 

[DevilBlue]

As someone who has reffed gàmes, did you think the final game was called fairly?

I do think there were a number of missed calls in the Nova UNC game. I do think there were a few "make up" calls made as well that I don't agree with. I do think that if added up there were more in Nova's favor than UNCs(off the top of my head maybe 4-5 in UNCs favor and 8-9 Nova's) I don't think though that they were as bad as a number of games I have seen. Nor do I think they decided the outcome of the game. If a number of these calls were made or weren't I think the game would have been different and thus could have gone a completely different direction. I do think the timing of a few of those bad calls were later in the game that were against UNC(travel missed) that people seem to have fixated on more than other missed calls and as I said its not always as easy to saying 1 or 2 calls missed late are more damaging than 1 or 2 missed early. The three calls that stand out to me as having been wrong(straight from memory without rewatching the game) and I think shouldn't have been missed were the foul on Jackson late first half, the travel on NOVA with 2-3 left, and early blocking foul on Kris Jenkins.

 

[UNC-75]

I think the refs have been the same for quite a while. With multiple cameras from different angles and with slow motion the mistakes are confirmed. The changing rules along with the faster more gifted athletes also have made it more difficult. Also, with the clock management review each 0,1 sec now matters while years ago none of that was reviewed. The ref made the call and everyone went home. Now the reviews made under a microscope show that these guys are less than perfect.

 

[gary-7]

The first Duke UNC game was called very well. Couple of calls for both teams, but evenly called. As somebody who has officiated college level sports(soccer) I would say that its pretty easy to sit in a booth with replay and criticize. I would defy anyone who thinks they can do better to actually go ref games and see its not so easy.

A dookie jumping into an officiating thread on a Carolina board --- guess which side he's on

 

[DevilBlue]

A dookie jumping into an officiating thread on a Carolina board --- guess which side he's on

So you disagree with one of my comments?

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I do think there were a number of missed calls in the Nova UNC game. I do think there were a few "make up" calls made as well that I don't agree with. I do think that if added up there were more in Nova's favor than UNCs(off the top of my head maybe 4-5 in UNCs favor and 8-9 Nova's) I don't think though that they were as bad as a number of games I have seen. Nor do I think they decided the outcome of the game. If a number of these calls were made or weren't I think the game would have been different and thus could have gone a completely different direction. I do think the timing of a few of those bad calls were later in the game that were against UNC(travel missed) that people seem to have fixated on more than other missed calls and as I said its not always as easy to saying 1 or 2 calls missed late are more damaging than 1 or 2 missed early. The three calls that stand out to me as having been wrong(straight from memory without rewatching the game) and I think shouldn't have been missed were the foul on Jackson late first half, the travel on NOVA with 2-3 left, and early blocking foul on Kris Jenkins.[/QUO


...and I happen to think your post is full of Horsesh*t

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I do think there were a number of missed calls in the Nova UNC game. I do think there were a few Horsesh*t "make up" calls made as well that I don't agree with. I do think that if added up there were more in Nova's favor than UNCs(off the top of my head maybe1-2 in UNCs favor and 10-12 Nova's) I think though that they were as bad as a number of games I have seen. I think they decided the outcome of the game. If a number of these calls were made or weren't I think the game would have been different and thus could have gone a completely different direction. I do think the timing of a few of those bad calls were later in the game ) that people seem to have fixated on more than other missed calls and as I said its not always as easy to saying 1 or 2 calls missed late are more damaging than 1 or 2 missed early. The three calls that stand out to me as having been wrong(straight from memory without rewatching the game) and I think shouldn't have been missed were the foul on Jackson late first half, the travel on NOVA with 2-3 left, and early blocking foul on Kris Jenkins.

.... and I would also agree that a number of Horsesh*t calls (or non calls) undeniably decided the game as well...

 

[DevilBlue]

.... and I would also agree that a number of Horsesh*t calls (or non calls) undeniably decided the game as well...

Which ones decided the outcome of the game?

 

[tarheel0910]

A dookie jumping into an officiating thread on a Carolina board --- guess which side he's on

"The first Duke UNC game was called very well. Couple of calls for both teams, but evenly called."

Sounds to me like he is on no one's side unless you are saying that he has to bash the refs.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

This is gonna end well lol.

 

[gary-7]

So you disagree with one of my comments?

Since you asked, while it may be sometimes hard to get every call right it is not hard to call it fair. And it does make a difference whether a game is called "loose" or "tight". Call it by the damned rules.

I've seen it from all perspectives --- player, coach and yes, ref --- and the chronic issue is that 1) too many basketball refs (talk to em, you'll find out) have their own agendas as to how a game should be called, that more often than not does NOT comport with the actual rules of the game, and 2) the accountability process ranges from non-existent to totally flawed. The flaming case in point is how that gawdawful crew --- especially Michael Stephens --- ever got assigned to a championship game. That in and of itself is a scandal. Of course, you may not have had a problem with that, seeing as how he helped deliver a Natty to dook last year and helped steal one from Carolina this year... and that ain't sour grapes, that's a fact.

 

[BillyL]

This is gonna end well lol.

Its an 'analying' thread . . I've heard those never end well.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

seeing as how he helped deliver a Natty to dook last year and helped steal one from Carolina this year... and that ain't sour grapes, that's a fact.

That's an opinion, not a fact. We make more shots, we win that game. We sucked in the interior, and lost.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Back to the subject of this thread though, I think it's good that the NBA reviews calls and non-calls after the fact. You could argue that it doesn't change anything, but I think it does do two things:

1. Shows the league has accountability and knows its own rules. The NBA can point out and document "okay, this right here was a blown call and here's why."
2. It shows the league cares about the accuracy of its officiating and isn't hiding behind some sinister force that might be affecting calls (like gambling).

It would be nice if the NCAA would do the same in high-profile games. It could be an educational experience for the fans, coaches, referees, et al.

 

[DevilBlue]

Since you asked, while it may be sometimes hard to get every call right it is not hard to call it fair. And it does make a difference whether a game is called "loose" or "tight". Call it by the damned rules.

I've seen it from all perspectives --- player, coach and yes, ref --- and the chronic issue is that 1) too many basketball refs (talk to em, you'll find out) have their own agendas as to how a game should be called, that more often than not does NOT comport with the actual rules of the game, and 2) the accountability process ranges from non-existent to totally flawed. The flaming case in point is how that gawdawful crew --- especially Michael Stephens --- ever got assigned to a championship game. That in and of itself is a scandal. Of course, you may not have had a problem with that, seeing as how he helped deliver a Natty to dook last year and helped steal one from Carolina this year... and that ain't sour grapes, that's a fact.

I agree it makes a difference. I also say that as long as its called both ways...tight or loose... I also think that so long as the entire game is that way(non of this loose all game then tight at the end) its something everyone has to make adjustments to in that coaches and players need to adjust to if they are calling a game one way or another. Even on this board, there is debate of what contact is ok, what isn't, when and when isn't contact an issue. I mean if you wanted to call everything 100% rule almost every PG palms the ball these days walking up the court unguarded. Nobody calls it because there's no advantage gained if nobody is within 15 feet of you.... Basketball is a contact sport. Not the way football is, but you do push and bump people esp in the post. I personally am ok with that in most cases and in many cases I'd like to see a little less calls there. I see too many people who have a guy between them and the basket posted up and its bump, bump, bump harder and shoot. That defender has that space where he stands and straight up. Yes if he arms are down its a clear foul, but I see and ones all the time where the offensive player initiates the contact EVERY time. 20 years ago nobody called it. Rewatch Jordan and the Bulls play Ewing and the Knicks. It was almost no blood no foul.

As for that Duke delivered National Title in 15, the only call I have serious was the Justice out of bounds ball that should have been called the other way with that review. Other calls went both ways and you can't just say that one being in one half is bigger than one in the other half. I mean if the argument is that a missed call late in the game would have lead to 2 point, is that not the same as a missed call early that leads to 2 points?

 

[DevilBlue]

Back to the subject of this thread though, I think it's good that the NBA reviews calls and non-calls after the fact. You could argue that it doesn't change anything, but I think it does do two things:

1. Shows the league has accountability and knows its own rules. The NBA can point out and document "okay, this right here was a blown call and here's why."
2. It shows the league cares about the accuracy of its officiating and isn't hiding behind some sinister force that might be affecting calls (like gambling).

It would be nice if the NCAA would do the same in high-profile games. It could be an educational experience for the fans, coaches, referees, et al.

Completely agree with this post. There should be accountability(ie refs are graded) and they should review game tape to see what calls aren't being made or are and attempt to fix them. I just hate that it seems people key in on just the last 2 minutes...there are a lot of calls missed other times that should be worked on.

 

[DSouthr]

Kinda funny, so I was watching the end of a playoff game couple nights ago, they went to a commercial about something NBA related but it showed lebron driving the ball, splitting 2 defenders and finishing. Problem was in that feature lebron walked, clear walk and yet the NBA used that as their feature clip for that service? Kind of a global statement about the league in general in my mind.

 

[DevilBlue]

Kinda funny, so I was watching the end of a playoff game couple nights ago, they went to a commercial about something NBA related but it showed lebron driving the ball, splitting 2 defenders and finishing. Problem was in that feature lebron walked, clear walk and yet the NBA used that as their feature clip for that service? Kind of a global statement about the league in general in my mind.

Well I don't think anyone is denying on drives to the hoop that the NBA has been allowing more steps for years. I can't remember the last travel I saw that wasn't a lifted pivot foot when posting up or at least being stationary and trying to gain position.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Kinda funny, so I was watching the end of a playoff game couple nights ago, they went to a commercial about something NBA related but it showed lebron driving the ball, splitting 2 defenders and finishing. Problem was in that feature lebron walked, clear walk and yet the NBA used that as their feature clip for that service? Kind of a global statement about the league in general in my mind.

This is the other side of the coin. The NBA can harp on calls that were made to screw one team over, and make a big deal about correcting them, but the calls they put the spotlight on are completely up to the discretion of the league. And baby Bron Bron taking 4, 5, 6 steps isn't one that will be highlighted.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Its an 'analying' thread . . I've heard those never end well.

Anal lying- is that talking out your arse?

 

[ChapelHeeled]

I agree it makes a difference. I also say that as long as its called both ways...tight or loose... I also think that so long as the entire game is that way(non of this loose all game then tight at the end) its something everyone has to make adjustments to in that coaches and players need to adjust to if they are calling a game one way or another. Even on this board, there is debate of what contact is ok, what isn't, when and when isn't contact an issue. I mean if you wanted to call everything 100% rule almost every PG palms the ball these days walking up the court unguarded. Nobody calls it because there's no advantage gained if nobody is within 15 feet of you.... Basketball is a contact sport. Not the way football is, but you do push and bump people esp in the post. I personally am ok with that in most cases and in many cases I'd like to see a little less calls there. I see too many people who have a guy between them and the basket posted up and its bump, bump, bump harder and shoot. That defender has that space where he stands and straight up. Yes if he arms are down its a clear foul, but I see and ones all the time where the offensive player initiates the contact EVERY time. 20 years ago nobody called it. Rewatch Jordan and the Bulls play Ewing and the Knicks. It was almost no blood no foul.

As for that Duke delivered National Title in 15, the only call I have serious was the Justice out of bounds ball that should have been called the other way with that review. Other calls went both ways and you can't just say that one being in one half is bigger than one in the other half. I mean if the argument is that a missed call late in the game would have lead to 2 point, is that not the same as a missed call early that leads to 2 points?

2010 was the BIGGEST GIFT. However, 2015 was a rather Big Gift as well! All my view of the situation of course. No one can say that "K" and Duke do NOT get many, many calls as he is constantly on the officials. In my view Dook got HUGE BREAKS in 2015 and 2010! Also, the UNC Championship game against Villanova's (football) team obviously was called in a one-sided way in my opinion. I will add that many, many, many people share this same view!

 

[gary-7]

That's an opinion, not a fact. We make more shots, we win that game. We sucked in the interior, and lost.

"We make more shots, we win". Wow. And thus goes the faux analysis of every game ever played.
Don't suppose you want to explore the actual reasons for a large portion of our misses in the interior, huh? Our guys were getting hacked and had few FTs to show for it. That is not an opinion. It is a cold hard fact. Good grief.

 

[HeelFan58]

"We make more shots, we win". Wow. And thus goes the faux analysis of every game ever played.
Don't suppose you want to explore the actual reasons for a large portion of our misses in the interior, huh? Our guys were getting hacked and had few FTs to show for it. That is not an opinion. It is a cold hard fact. Good grief.

I agree just my opinion. I know I cussed enough during the game to fill a quart jar with quarters.

 

[Archer2]

I agree just my opinion. I know I cussed enough during the game to fill a quart jar with quarters.

I agree and I think if a football Championship game we were involved with was called as unevenly, THN11 would be much more incensed.

 

[tarheel0910]

I agree and I think if a football Championship game we were involved with was called as unevenly, THN11 would be much more incensed.

Well...maybe not.

If you think there's some master conspiracy that kept Carolina from winning that game against Clemson then I can't help you. That's too stupid to even debate about

the refs have no motivation to favor one team versus the other in your situation (Clemson going to the playoffs vs. Carolina winning and not going).

 

[BillyL]

Oh noes . . the rayuffs screwed us over again, was it the rayuffs that shot 58.3% from the field for the Wildcats on Championship night.

11 TOs by the Heels, led by starting PG Berry's 3 . . . . them GD rayuffs again.

Meeks 1 of 8 from the field . . oh noes, more rayuffs' shenanigans.

Villanova blows to OU by 44 in a freaking semifinal game, I'll bet OU was pissed at the rayuffs for giving that game to 'Nova so handily.

#coldhardfacts

 

[toophly1124]

It's always the refs Billy ... Some think UNC has never lost to a team bc that team was better ...nope it's crooked refs with crooked intentions every single damn time

 

[DSouthr]

I began reading this and I got so but then that became now I am just

 

[HeelFan58]

Well...maybe not.

Clemson FB game wasn't poorly called , it was just the one terrible call which was just a call that wasn't there..

 

[tarheel0910]

I give up @TarHeelNation11

 

[Archer2]

Clemson FB game wasn't poorly called , it was just the one terrible call which was just a call that wasn't there..

Exactly. The refs played a significant role in Villanova's win, not so in the Clemson victory. Clemson was the better team, as was Baylor. I'm not one to beotch about officiating very often. The NCAA final game is the exception to the rule.

If some of you don't think we got the short end of the stick in that game, fine. But don't try to demean those that do.

 

[heelmanwilm]

If anyone wants to say we got the short end of the stick then fine. If anyone starts a thread saying "did the ncaa get even with us" and imply or straight out claim that there was a conspiracy to
Rig the officiating against us then yea...you're gonna get demeaned. Demeaned and ridiculed and laughed at. Every single time.

 

[tarheel0910]

OK, now I understand. Just out of curiosity @TarHeelNation11 how many bad calls would it have taken for you to be incensed about that game?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

OK, now I understand. Just out of curiosity @TarHeelNation11 how many bad calls would it have taken for you to be incensed about that game?

The Clemson game? It would've taken several (5 or more) huge blown calls for me to even consider using the refs as an excuse.

As for basketball, guys it's such a subjectively officiated sport and there's such a big frequency of potential foul situations throughout the game. Football is a bit more cut and dry: was it a catch or not, was the DB all over the receiver or not, etc. Yes there's some subjective stuff too, but not nearly as much as basketball.

You can't control the refs. Do you know what we could control but didn't? Meeks missing shots inside, not guarding the inbounder on the final play, not dominating the interior like we should have, not closing out the first half strong. We had plenty of opportunities to win that game and squandered them all. That's the long and short of it. We played our C+ game and Villanova toppled us. Sucks, but that's the truth. Refs had little impact.