NBA analying foul call errors

[Archer2]

You can't control the refs. Do you know what we could control but didn't? Meeks missing shots inside, not guarding the inbounder on the final play, not dominating the interior like we should have, not closing out the first half strong. We had plenty of opportunities to win that game and squandered them all. That's the long and short of it. We played our C+ game and Villanova toppled us. Sucks, but that's the truth. Refs had little impact.

Let's see. They shot significantly better from the field, slightly better from the line. We shot 65% to their 57% from long distance and made 3 more treys. We dominated them on the boards, including a 16-2 advantage on the offensive glass. We almost tripled their number of assists, 16-6. TO's were a wash, 11-10. Still think we played our C+ game? The numbers don't support your revisionist history.

They shot better, we dominated the other statistical categories. And if the obvious foul on JJ had been called, we probably would have finished the first half stronger. Eight straight fouls on the Heels completely changed the momentum of the game. Several uncalled travels on Villanova didn't help. To say the refs didn't significantly impact this game is ludicrous.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

They shot better

And therefore won.

If the refs were such a factor don't you think Roy or one of the guys would have mentioned it post game? Switzer and Fedora talked pointedly about the blown onside kick call in the ACCCG post game, but I don't recall reading anybody mentioning the refs following the national championship game. I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone doing that. They knew they got beat, and what's worse, didn't play anywhere near their best game.

 

[Archer2]

Shooting is just one aspect of the game, albeit an important one. If we hadn't beaten them in every other statistical category, I might agree with you.

Roy's too classy to mention it and his players reflect that. You don't think the refs affected the outcome, I do. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Shooting is just one aspect of the game, albeit an important one. If we hadn't beaten them in every other statistical category, I might agree with you.

Roy's too classy to mention it and his players reflect that. You don't think the refs affected the outcome, I do. We'll agree to disagree.

Fair enough. I enjoy talking sports with you, even when we disagree. I also do not dislike Carolina basketball, despite how I sometimes come off on here. Carolina basketball was my first love and my first introduction as a kid to UNC and UNC athletics.

Go Heels!

 

[Archer2]

Likewise, THN11.

Go Heels!

 

[HeelFan58]

And therefore won.

If the refs were such a factor don't you think Roy or one of the guys would have mentioned it post game? Switzer and Fedora talked pointedly about the blown onside kick call in the ACCCG post game, but I don't recall reading anybody mentioning the refs following the national championship game. I could be wrong, but I don't remember anyone doing that. They knew they got beat, and what's worse, didn't play anywhere near their best game.

Plenty of people mentioned the officiating after the NCG , Roy just wasn't one of them. Hell even a business website mentioned it.

 

[gary-7]

Oh noes . . the rayuffs screwed us over again, was it the rayuffs that shot 58.3% from the field for the Wildcats on Championship night.

11 TOs by the Heels, led by starting PG Berry's 3 . . . . them GD rayuffs again.

Meeks 1 of 8 from the field . . oh noes, more rayuffs' shenanigans.

Villanova blows to OU by 44 in a freaking semifinal game, I'll bet OU was pissed at the rayuffs for giving that game to 'Nova so handily.

#coldhardfacts

#coldhardnonsense

 

[gary-7]

Plenty of people mentioned the officiating after the NCG , Roy just wasn't one of them. Hell even a business website mentioned it.

Indeed they did, 58. And here's the irony: The theory (which I don't subscribe to, BTW) that the bad officiating was the NCAA trying to keep Carolina from winning was actually much more prominent among non-UNC fans (most of whom believe(d) that we were gonna get put on probation). I have friends who are fans of SEC schools who have shown me threads on their boards about it. In other words, the fact that we got hosed by the zebras was widely noticed and discussed... way beyond the boundaries of the Tar Heel fan base.

Speaking of which, funny thing, I travel to Northern Virginia 5 or 6 times a year --- just got here Friday, first time back since the season ended. There's a cool sports bar I go to watch games when I'm up here (last time I was up was during the 1st NCAA weekend), and I'm friends with one of the bartenders who's a big UNC fan. He loves it when I come in for a game because most times that means the number of UNC fans in the room just doubled. Most people up here are UVA, VaTech, MD or GTown, and trust me, there are plenty of ABCers among them.

Anyway, I stopped in Friday night and of course he wanted to talk about the championship game. He said he was trying to watch the game and work, and that it was doubly frustrating hearing everyone at the bar talking about how bad UNC was getting jobbed by the refs. I asked him if there were more UNC fans than usual and he said no --- just one lady in a UNC shirt, one Villanova couple and everyone else were regulars... and they were the ones talking about the refs. And I can tell ya there were non-UNC fans talking about it in the bar I watched it in ATL.

All the speculation aside, all I can say to those ITT who actually believe the Natty game was called fairly and didn't benefit nova, is that I've got some unicorns for sale --- real cheap.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

Oh noes . . the rayuffs screwed us over again, was it the rayuffs that shot 58.3% from the field for the Wildcats on Championship night.

11 TOs by the Heels, led by starting PG Berry's 3 . . . . them GD rayuffs again.

Meeks 1 of 8 from the field . . oh noes, more rayuffs' shenanigans.

Villanova blows to OU by 44 in a freaking semifinal game, I'll bet OU was pissed at the rayuffs for giving that game to 'Nova so handily.

#coldhardfacts

Billy... Don't know why you are in a mocking type tone here (opinion only). However, if you do not think that JJ got killed just before the half in that game, then I do not know what you did see... UNC should have gone into halftime with a nine point lead (opinion again). That is only one time that the officials did not make the correct call. In fact they made no call at all. Being that JJ was now up in the stands 'Nova simply had one less Tar Heel to worry about when they went the other way and scored. Looking back at that one play I know that it was huge as far as I am concerned. There were many others that were just as bad, going against UNC...

 

[BillyL]

#coldhardnonsense

LOL

Nova shot 58.3% from the field . . almost 60% . . ! Question here, did we beat anyone this year that shot almost 60% . . ? If, we did who . . ?

UNC shot a paltry 42.9% . . . the Heels took 15 more shots and only hit one more FG than 'Nova. We shot the ball poorly that night compared to our usual effort, because 'Nova played solid defense.
The zebras called 4 more fouls (20-16) on the Heels giving 'Nova only 4 extra FT attempts. No big disparity there IMO.

I'll remind you yet once gain that 'Nova blew the socks off of a very, very good Oklahoma team, it was truly a massacre wouldn't you say . . ? They locked up the NCAA's leading scorer, Buddy Heild, and held him to 9 pts., and in the process limited OU to a pathetic 31.7% FG.

Joel Berry scored 15 points in the 1st half . . we got only 5 from him the 2nd half because the Wildcats put the clamps down on him. Not totally unexpected because 'Nova is an excellent defensive squad, something they were constant with all season long. JB led the team in turnovers that night, one less TO by JB or any other of our players and one more made FG and we win a game that you are saying the refs gifted to 'Nova.

We shot poorly, they shot much better over the entire game. Maybe, we should give credit to them instead of accusing the rayuffs of giving the game to our opponent. Are we becoming wuffpecker fans . . ? Sounds to me like some of you folks are already living in Rawlee . .

#webelookinglikecoldhardcrybabies

Billy... Don't know why you are in a mocking type tone here (opinion only). However, if you do not think that JJ got killed just before the half in that game, then I do not know what you did see... UNC should have gone into halftime with a nine point lead (opinion again). That is only one time that the officials did not make the correct call. In fact they made no call at all. Being that JJ was now up in the stands 'Nova simply had one less Tar Heel to worry about when they went the other way and scored. Looking back at that one play I know that it was huge as far as I am concerned. There were many others that were just as bad, going against UNC...

Was Championship game night the first time you saw JJ go to the hole in a weaker than normal fashion . . ? He has a long history of being a weak finisher at the basket. He went in weak and didn't get the call, it happens. Everyone here knows he needs to get stronger . . maybe, next year he dunks that ball instead huh . . ?

 

[HeelFan58]

#coldhardnonsense

Billy L is fullof coldhardnonsense though I usually call it something else. He also thinks spelling it rayuffs is clever.

 

[HeelFan58]

LOL

Nova shot 58.3% from the field . . almost 60% . . ! Question here, did we beat anyone this year that shot almost 60% . . ? If, we did who . . ?

UNC shot a paltry 42.9% . . . the Heels took 15 more shots and only hit one more FG than 'Nova. We shot the ball poorly that night compared to our usual effort, because 'Nova played solid defense.
The zebras called 4 more fouls (20-16) on the Heels giving 'Nova only 4 extra FT attempts. No big disparity there IMO.

I'll remind you yet once gain that 'Nova blew the socks off of a very, very good Oklahoma team, it was truly a massacre wouldn't you say . . ? They locked up the NCAA's leading scorer, Buddy Heild, and held him to 9 pts., and in the process limited OU to a pathetic 31.7% FG.

Joel Berry scored 15 points in the 1st half . . we got only 5 from him the 2nd half because the Wildcats put the clamps down on him. Not totally unexpected because 'Nova is an excellent defensive squad, something they were constant with all season long. JB led the team in turnovers that night, one less TO by JB or any other of our players and one more made FG and we win a game that you are saying the refs gifted to 'Nova.

We shot poorly, they shot much better over the entire game. Maybe, we should give credit to them instead of accusing the rayuffs of giving the game to our opponent. Are we becoming wuffpecker fans . . ? Sounds to me like some of you folks are already living in Rawlee . .

#webelookinglikecoldhardcrybabies





Was Championship game night the first time you saw JJ go to the hole in a weaker than normal fashion . . ? He has a long history of being a weak finisher at the basket. He went in weak and didn't get the call, it happens. Everyone here knows he needs to get stronger . . maybe, next year he dunks that ball instead huh . . ?

Villanova found out early they would be allowed to play karate defense. Kennedy Brice and Isaiah found out early they weren't gonna get the same courtesy. Was it a conspiracy? No. Do some refs have biases against some teams? If you don't believe they do then you live in a fantasy land. Just go back and watch the enthusiasm and border line showboating from the refs when they made calls against UNC.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

In other words, the fact that we got hosed by the zebras was widely noticed and discussed... way beyond the boundaries of the Tar Heel fan base.

Link? To a reputable source, not a message board that is. I was looking for media attention to the refs in the game - but wasn't able to find anything.

 

[HeelFan58]

Link? To a reputable source, not a message board that is. I was looking for media attention to the refs in the game - but wasn't able to find anything.

OK. Here you go , you must not have looked very hard.

Tarheelblog.com
USA today - just check out the tweets
collegespun.com "Michael Jordan not happy with refs in NTG. (but I guess he knows nothing)
scout.com "UNC got hased on officiating"
Businessinsider.com but of course they are UNC homers.
Adam Schein "Schein on sports" probably a closet UNC fan

Found all these in about 5 mins. Do you really think CBS , ESPN or major networks are gonna criticize the officials in this PC world we live in?

 

[Archer2]

Villanova found out early they would be allowed to play karate defense. Kennedy Brice and Isaiah found out early they weren't gonna get the same courtesy. Was it a conspiracy? No. Do some refs have biases against some teams? If you don't believe they do then you live in a fantasy land. Just go back and watch the enthusiasm and border line showboating from the refs when they made calls against UNC.

Spot on.

 

[BillyL]

Villanova found out early they would be allowed to play karate defense. Kennedy Brice and Isaiah found out early they weren't gonna get the same courtesy. Was it a conspiracy? No. Do some refs have biases against some teams? If you don't believe they do then you live in a fantasy land. Just go back and watch the enthusiasm and border line showboating from the refs when they made calls against UNC.

There probably are refs that have biases, are you saying that we saw a whole crew of them, and they were biased against us . . ?
I've watched the game twice already. I didn't notice any showboating or anyone overly enthused that was wearing a striped shirt.

I'm sure there are some peeps that feel we got hosed by the refs, there almost always are after a loss . . sometimes when you don't play your best game, its the refs that got in the way.

 

[HeelFan58]

There probably are refs that have biases, are you saying that we saw a whole crew of them, and they were biased against us . . ?
I've watched the game twice already. I didn't notice any showboating or anyone overly enthused that was wearing a striped shirt.

I'm sure there are some peeps that feel we got hosed by the refs, there almost always are after a loss . . sometimes when you don't play your best game, its the refs that got in the way.

you watch a couple of the calls against Brice and Kennedy and the enthusiasm of those calls , especially when Kennedy goes to the floor for a loose ball....if you can't see that then you are lying to yourself. Read my post again and tell me where I said the whole crew was biased.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

OK. Here you go , you must not have looked very hard.

Tarheelblog.com
USA today - just check out the tweets
collegespun.com "Michael Jordan not happy with refs in NTG. (but I guess he knows nothing)
scout.com "UNC got hased on officiating"
Businessinsider.com but of course they are UNC homers.
Adam Schein "Schein on sports" probably a closet UNC fan

Found all these in about 5 mins. Do you really think CBS , ESPN or major networks are gonna criticize the officials in this PC world we live in?

I agree there were some terrible calls in the game. I was looking for a link. I tried clicking on the statements you gave, but none were links.

 

[HeelFan58]

I agree there were some terrible calls in the game. I was looking for a link. I tried clicking on the statements you gave, but none were links.

just google it. you will see multiple entries. Villanova vs. UNC title game refs etc.

 

[BillyL]

you watch a couple of the calls against Brice and Kennedy and the enthusiasm of those calls , especially when Kennedy goes to the floor for a loose ball....if you can't see that then you are lying to yourself. Read my post again and tell me where I said the whole crew was biased.

ll re-watch it, not sure it will change my mind . .

Do you think any of the 3 had a bias against us . . ?

Jus' curious here . . do you think 'Nova played a better game . . ?

 

[HeelFan58]

ll re-watch it, not sure it will change my mind . .

Do you think any of the 3 had a bias against us . . ?

Jus' curious here . . do you think 'Nova played a better game . . ?

Oh I'm sure.

I'll just say I know Roy cringed when he saw Stephens. He could never admit it though.

They made one more FG than we did. Do you think basketball is only FG%. Plus hell both teams knew if UNC got close to a shooter it was going to be a foul.

Just go back and watch Stephens and also the "fat white guy" who pulled Justin away and lectured him without saying a word to the Nova player who initiated the contact.
Does anybody know the fat white guy's name?

 

[DSouthr]

Indeed they did, 58. And here's the irony: The theory (which I don't subscribe to, BTW) that the bad officiating was the NCAA trying to keep Carolina from winning was actually much more prominent among non-UNC fans (most of whom believe(d) that we were gonna get put on probation). I have friends who are fans of SEC schools who have shown me threads on their boards about it. In other words, the fact that we got hosed by the zebras was widely noticed and discussed... way beyond the boundaries of the Tar Heel fan base.

Speaking of which, funny thing, I travel to Northern Virginia 5 or 6 times a year --- just got here Friday, first time back since the season ended. There's a cool sports bar I go to watch games when I'm up here (last time I was up was during the 1st NCAA weekend), and I'm friends with one of the bartenders who's a big UNC fan. He loves it when I come in for a game because most times that means the number of UNC fans in the room just doubled. Most people up here are UVA, VaTech, MD or GTown, and trust me, there are plenty of ABCers among them.

Anyway, I stopped in Friday night and of course he wanted to talk about the championship game. He said he was trying to watch the game and work, and that it was doubly frustrating hearing everyone at the bar talking about how bad UNC was getting jobbed by the refs. I asked him if there were more UNC fans than usual and he said no --- just one lady in a UNC shirt, one Villanova couple and everyone else were regulars... and they were the ones talking about the refs. And I can tell ya there were non-UNC fans talking about it in the bar I watched it in ATL.

All the speculation aside, all I can say to those ITT who actually believe the Natty game was called fairly and didn't benefit nova, is that I've got some unicorns for sale --- real cheap.

Hey gary, ya remember that horse ya told me was dead...

 

[heelmanwilm]

What burned me was those two quick fouls against our best player early in the game that pretty much rendered him
Useless til late.

Oh wait that was against nova.

And furthermore...

If an official had a bias against us why did he pass on a dozen or so
Opportunities to kill our comeback? Why didnt he call a foul in the last 4 secs and put nova on the line instead of them having to hit a 30 footer? Sorry but common sense and rational thinking trumps the "biased officiating" theory. It belongs in the same trash heap as the "ncaa conspiracy theory". As for refs "showboating" and gloating over calling fouls against us? Uhhhh.... Get help.

I got no prob if anyone wants to point out missed calls. I got mad as hell during that stretch of 8 straight calls
Against us. Blaming the officiating for the loss is different though. I just know how i feel when a team we beat blames the refs. I think they're a bunch of ignorant whiney assed sore losers blinded by fanhood. If thats how u want to be known then by all means knocknyourselves the eff out. Of course the officiating impacted the game. It impacts EVERY GAME. But Anyone blaming the refs (and especially this imaginary bias by them) for the loss is the one living in a deluded fantasy land full of #coldhardnonsense and revisionist history. And once again anyone claiming a conspiracy to rig the officiating is just a flaming moron. Nova played better and deserved the win. They converted their opportunities and we didnt. Those are the facts.

 

[Archer2]

What burned me was those two quick fouls against our best player early in the game that pretty much rendered him
Useless til late.

Oh wait that was against nova.

And furthermore...

If an official had a bias against us why did he pass on a dozen or so
Opportunities to kill our comeback? Why didnt he call a foul in the last 4 secs and put nova on the line instead of them having to hit a 30 footer? Sorry but common sense and rational thinking trumps the "biased officiating" theory. It belongs in the same trash heap as the "ncaa conspiracy theory". As for refs "showboating" and gloating over calling fouls against us? Uhhhh.... Get help.

I got no prob if anyone wants to point out missed calls. I got mad as hell during that stretch of 8 straight calls
Against us. Blaming the officiating for the loss is different though. I just know how i feel when a team we beat blames the refs. I think they're a bunch of ignorant whiney assed sore losers blinded by fanhood. If thats how u want to be known then by all means knocknyourselves the eff out. Of course the officiating impacted the game. It impacts EVERY GAME. But Anyone blaming the refs (and especially this imaginary bias by them) for the loss is the one living in a deluded fantasy land full of #coldhardnonsense and revisionist history. And once again anyone claiming a conspiracy to rig the officiating is just a flaming moron. Nova played better and deserved the win. They converted their opportunities and we didnt. Those are the facts.

Hilarious, self-righteous post. Typical of you.

 

[BillyL]

@heelmanwilm

 

[HeelFan58]

What burned me was those two quick fouls against our best player early in the game that pretty much rendered him
Useless til late.

Oh wait that was against nova.

And furthermore...

If an official had a bias against us why did he pass on a dozen or so
Opportunities to kill our comeback? Why didnt he call a foul in the last 4 secs and put nova on the line instead of them having to hit a 30 footer? Sorry but common sense and rational thinking trumps the "biased officiating" theory. It belongs in the same trash heap as the "ncaa conspiracy theory". As for refs "showboating" and gloating over calling fouls against us? Uhhhh.... Get help.

I got no prob if anyone wants to point out missed calls. I got mad as hell during that stretch of 8 straight calls
Against us. Blaming the officiating for the loss is different though. I just know how i feel when a team we beat blames the refs. I think they're a bunch of ignorant whiney assed sore losers blinded by fanhood. If thats how u want to be known then by all means knocknyourselves the eff out. Of course the officiating impacted the game. It impacts EVERY GAME. But Anyone blaming the refs (and especially this imaginary bias by them) for the loss is the one living in a deluded fantasy land full of #coldhardnonsense and revisionist history. And once again anyone claiming a conspiracy to rig the officiating is just a flaming moron. Nova played better and deserved the win. They converted their opportunities and we didnt. Those are the facts.

yeah. apparently you are correct in your first sentence "your best player got 2 fouls in the opening minutes" none of which were protested by your team and your coach at all.

 

[UNC '92]

yeah. apparently you are correct in your first sentence "your best player got 2 fouls in the opening minutes" none of which were protested by your team and your coach at all.

 

[gary-7]

Hey gary, ya remember that horse ya told me was dead...

That's one horse that needs to be kept alive, D. Don't want to get back next season and see any of that crew in the Final 4

 

[gary-7]

LOL

Nova shot 58.3% from the field . . almost 60% . . ! Question here, did we beat anyone this year that shot almost 60% . . ? If, we did who . . ?

UNC shot a paltry 42.9% . . . the Heels took 15 more shots and only hit one more FG than 'Nova. We shot the ball poorly that night compared to our usual effort, because 'Nova played solid defense.
The zebras called 4 more fouls (20-16) on the Heels giving 'Nova only 4 extra FT attempts. No big disparity there IMO.

I'll remind you yet once gain that 'Nova blew the socks off of a very, very good Oklahoma team, it was truly a massacre wouldn't you say . . ? They locked up the NCAA's leading scorer, Buddy Heild, and held him to 9 pts., and in the process limited OU to a pathetic 31.7% FG.

Joel Berry scored 15 points in the 1st half . . we got only 5 from him the 2nd half because the Wildcats put the clamps down on him. Not totally unexpected because 'Nova is an excellent defensive squad, something they were constant with all season long. JB led the team in turnovers that night, one less TO by JB or any other of our players and one more made FG and we win a game that you are saying the refs gifted to 'Nova.

We shot poorly, they shot much better over the entire game. Maybe, we should give credit to them instead of accusing the rayuffs of giving the game to our opponent. Are we becoming wuffpecker fans . . ? Sounds to me like some of you folks are already living in Rawlee . .

Good Lord.

First, for the record I gave nova total props for playing well --- that does zero to mitigate the sorry, biased performance of the zebras.

Second, you point to us having 11 TOs --- gosh, 11 whole TOs? You mean, like right on our season average?
But worse, you point blame at Joel Berry?... Joel 7/12 FGs 4/4 3s, 2/2 FTs Berry??? Billy, you've posted some goofy sh** on here but now you've just jumped the shark. But I guess I should expect that --- If you had your way JB wouldn't have started this season. Of course then we wouldn't even be talking about an NCAA Final game because our season would have ended considerably earlier.

 

[heelmanwilm]

yeah. apparently you are correct in your first sentence "your best player got 2 fouls in the opening minutes" none of which were protested by your team and your coach at all.

Heh heh

 

[heelmanwilm]

Hilarious, self-righteous post. Typical of you.

 

[BillyL]

Good Lord.

First, for the record I gave nova total props for playing well --- that does zero to mitigate the sorry, biased performance of the zebras.

Second, you point to us having 11 TOs --- gosh, 11 whole TOs? You mean, like right on our season average?
But worse, you point blame at Joel Berry?... Joel 7/12 FGs 4/4 3s, 2/2 FTs Berry??? Billy, you've posted some goofy sh** on here but now you've just jumped the shark. But I guess I should expect that --- If you had your way JB wouldn't have started this season. Of course then we wouldn't even be talking about an NCAA Final game because our season would have ended considerably earlier.

LOL . . I said that JB led the team that night in TOs. That stat is accurate, and I didn't blame him for our loss anywhere in my post. Joel had a great 1st half(15 pts.) and totally carried the team the opening 20.
I'll credit 'Nova for a very good defensive 2nd half holding us to a 34.3% FG after we shot 53% in the first.
I'll give credit to 'Nova for shooting 58.3% FG in the 1st and 2nd half (14/24 both halves).

JB starting the season . . ? I may have offered a guess at who Roy chooses to start, but, I'm a long posting fan that has stated my opinion that who starts for us doesn't really mean as much as who plays the most minutes and finishes the game.

I'll remind you that I posted several times that I thought our most productive backcourt over the season was Berry-Britt and the stats proved it. I also, thought that JB was our best backcourt player this year.
I also don't rail against JB anything near the bad-mouthing you throw at Nate Britt. Stilman White ring a bell . . ? GMAFB.

There you go again with that embarrassing biased ref BS . . GMAFB.

 

[Archer2]

ll re-watch it, not sure it will change my mind . .

Do you think any of the 3 had a bias against us . . ?

Jus' curious here . . do you think 'Nova played a better game . . ?

They shot better than we did from two point range, period. Other than that, we dominated them. We crushed them on the boards(16-2 advantage in ORB), had 15 more FG attempts, almost tripled their assists(16-6), TO's were 11-10. So did they really play better or did we just miss a lot of wide open shots?

They made some very tough shots, we missed some chippies. End of story. If you don't think the refs played a significant role in their win, fine. Most people do, including most dook and State fans I know.

Again, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[BillyL]

They shot better than we did from two point range, period. Other than that, we dominated them. We crushed them on the boards(16-2 advantage in ORB), had 15 more FG attempts, almost tripled their assists(16-6), TO's were 11-10. So did they really play better or did we just miss a lot of wide open shots?

They made some very tough shots, we missed some chippies. End of story. If you don't think the refs played a significant role in their win, fine. Most people do, including most dook and State fans I know.

Again, we'll agree to disagree.

I agree, we won the boards, unfortunately, rebounds don't put points on the board. Lost the FG% contest, but, only after some paltry shooting in the 2nd half. Brice & Paige were 10/20(2nd half) . . but got no help from the rest of the cast, Meeks, Jackson, Berry, Britt combined for a very weak 1/13. (JB had the 1 FG).
JJ, KM, NB were 0/12. OUCH. Theo contributed just 2 personal fouls and 3 assists the entire game, 0 FGA.
The refs didn't shoot the ball for us in the 2nd half did they . . ? More FG attempts by UNC doesn't equal 'Nova's FG efficiency . .

When was the last time we won a game against a team that shot 58.3% for the game . . ?

 

[Archer2]

Again, I credit them with making a lot of tough shots. But we dominated every other statistic. So much so that despite them shooting lights out, the game was tied with 4.6 seconds to go. That's why the zebras had way too much influence on the outcome.

I'll ask you one question. Do you think the game was called evenly? Yes or no. If you say yes, then our debate is over. If not, it isn't.

The fact that we had 16 assists to Villanova's indicates that we were moving the ball better and getting better shots. Unfortunately, we missed several layups(a few of which we were fouled on), and they made a lot of shots with a hand in their face.

My point being, in a game that close, a handful of calls can mean the difference in the outcome. IMO, they did directly affect the outcome. Eight straight fouls on UNC took away our momentum and our ability to play aggressively on defense, it made our guys tentative and that affected our shooting as well.

Now, did we have opportunities to overcome the poor officiating? Yes, but we shouldn't have had to do so. All other things staying the same, we win by 4-5 points if the game is called evenly.

 

[BillyL]

Do you think the game was called evenly? Yes or no.

I think more of the judgment calls went against us this game, with the zebras calling 4 more PFs against us. Villanova came into the game noted as being the better defensive team, so, I don't see that # as being suspicious. Not like the ND loss where it was 27-16 in calls against us . . that to me was bothersome as a poorly officiated game, was that just home cooking . . ? Prolly so . .

 

[Archer2]

Preconceived notions should not affect how an official calls a game. Call each game exactly as it's played. Can we agree on that?

That argument is one of my pet peeves, often given as the excuse for dook getting the benefit of the doubt on close calls. It should have no bearing at all!

 

[BillyL]

Preconceived notions should not affect how an official calls a game. Call each game exactly as it's played. Can we agree on that?

I'll agree that the better defensive squad is far more likely to have less calls whistled on them.

Outside of JB and Theo, we have a group of guys that have shown difficulty playing position defense. Our entire front court at one point in time or another were notoriously known for being foul prone, and our opponents knew to drive on our backcourt players.

In a perfect world, yes, it would be great if the game was called exactly as it was played. However, its the recognition that human errors in sports are a very likely possibility, that we now have an officials replay and/or challenge provision in basketball, football and baseball.

 

[DSouthr]

That's one horse that needs to be kept alive, D. Don't want to get back next season and see any of that crew in the Final 4

OK gary but ya have to explain for me how we can effect that change?

I mean I am just guessing here but guessing the refs are not gonna come read our comments here and collectively agree, we better not do that to them again? We have played duke at duke, other teams have played them at their place, how has their fans or ours constant complaints about how those games have been called effected change in duke getting such great home cookin? I kinda do not see that it has, it is kinda one of those things that when we play duke at duke we have come to expect, maybe we have to expect it in all our huge games.

Look, I am not saying it is fair, I don't think it is, not saying we didn't get screwed in that natty game, felt the refs went way over board, especially the one that nearly dared our guy to get a tech as he was being picked up off the floor. Not saying any of that was right, just saying we have to adjust and over come when those things happen. Yeah, it may be a situation where we have to win by 10 for the final score board to say we won by 1, life ain't always fair as I would like it to be, sometimes life throws us these road blocks that are not fair. When that happens we have 2 choices, do nothing and complain how unfair life is or do what ever we can to over come.

That is all I am saying, we know in recruiting for example, things are not fair, the field is not a level field, it is way tilted to a couple of hated rivals, we know that, Roy knows that. Roy does the best he can to over come that, maybe he gets the best B-list kid but he develops that kid in to a A list player. In other words he works to over come. I am not in a position to make us any better, I can not give us the tools to over come but I can over come my own negative thoughts and look forward more to a positive tomorrow. It is about all I can really do but I think it is important to move past this and look at tomorrow.

I am not trying to tell you what to do my friend, telling you what I have done but that horse is dead and it don't matter how many more times we kick him, that is not changing.

 

[DSouthr]

Preconceived notions should not affect how an official calls a game. Call each game exactly as it's played. Can we agree on that?

That argument is one of my pet peeves, often given as the excuse for dook getting the benefit of the doubt on close calls. It should have no bearing at all!

Arch, yeah, they should not affect how a game is called but they do. As long as you have humans involved you will have the human imperfection that comes along with us.