NCAA Committee on Infractions tomorrow at noon will release its final report, including sanctions
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Fat cats in the Pope Box were saying that we ask to postpone til Monday as many big donors and alumni were being courted for donations during the Notre Dame football weekend. Apparently the NCAA agreed to this request
Seems that coach Williams may have tipped his hand a little though so maybe we breathe a sigh of relief a little after tomorrow?
Hoping it comes out tomorrow. Let's get it out there and move on to whatever the next step shall be.
Roy has consistently maintained he doesnt expect significant punishment for mens bball. I dont suspect he has any new info.
The coaches stay in the loop with all the Athletic Admin. If Coach thought there was ANY chance we wouldn't get to play in the postseason, I don't think he would have let JB and Theo come back.
Why would he not let them come back? That comment makes zero sense. Theo wasn't going to get drafted and JB would have snuck into the second round in a best case scenario.
So Theo will get drafted next year and JB will be better than a 2nd Rd Pick? Possible, but not likely. They came back to make another deep March run.
The NCAA has been embarrassed enough with the whole FBI pay for play scandal. In my opinion it looks like the NCAA knew that shoe companies were paying players and steering them to certain schools. They don't need anymore bad press. Giving Carolina made up sanctions and then losing in court would be another black eye. Also I've said all along the NCAA is all about money and going to court means losing big money.
They came back because of the fact that Theo wasn't going to be drafted and JB wasn't guaranteed. Show me one mock draft that says otherwise.
The Ram's Club is calling around letting top donors know the NCAA has decided to just drop it.
Now, IF that is true, everyone needs to go get some popcorn, don a hazmat suite and rubber gloves and go trolling at CrackRide, 'cause it's gonna get FUN!
Just make sure to shower really good after you leave from over there (Sorry, not even the hazmat suit will keep you from being infested with what they have over there!)
Being a college basketball fan in general, but not particularly a UNC fan, I admit that I haven't kept up with this situation as well as most posters on this site. It is my understanding that:
(1) The NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over academic issues once an athlete is enrolled. The university administration has jurisdiction over administration issues. Did the UNC administration self impose any penalties on the UNC athletic department? If so, this will probably help the UNC cause. If not, the NCAA may feel that they have to do something. It may not be legal and UNC will probably win on appeal in court.
(2) It is my understanding that when Roy Williams was informed that the sham classes were happening he took immediate action to ensure his basketball players no longer participated in the sham classes. Is this correct? Did other coaches do likewise? If so, this may help the UNC cause.
I'm not here to argue or make a point. I'm just trying to figure the situation out.
(1) The NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over academic issues once an athlete is enrolled. The university administration has jurisdiction over administration issues. Did the UNC administration self impose any penalties on the UNC athletic department? If so, this will probably help the UNC cause. If not, the NCAA may feel that they have to do something. It may not be legal and UNC will probably win on appeal in court.
(2) It is my understanding that when Roy Williams was informed that the sham classes were happening he took immediate action to ensure his basketball players no longer participated in the sham classes. Is this correct? Did other coaches do likewise? If so, this may help the UNC cause.
I'm not here to argue or make a point. I'm just trying to figure the situation out.
2nd team? Kid is one of the most decorated post season producing point guard in recent memory and he gets 2nd team preseason? Get the **** outta here
I highly doubt anybody knows what the NCAA ruling is right now, even university officials and administration. Information has not been leaked and things have been pretty button down concerning any information on the case. Highly doubt Ram Club members know anything more right now, let alone calling other members to let them know. Maybe I am wrong, but not buying that story on the case at all!
Dude. Toying with our emotions like that is just mean.
The jurisdiction over academic issues is that if the sanctioning body and yes they have already handled that. It is only if it is proven that the coaching staff of any of our sports tried to steer athletes to classes that were fake or tried to influence grades of real classes.
Now the truth is these classes may not have been difficult but they were actually real, even if they were not traditional type classes, ends up they were Independent study classes, some were not intended to be that initially and ended up being so.Not one of us, no UNC fan that I have seen as said these classes were anything but easy grade classes. Nor have I yet to see a UNC fan suggest the level of difficulty of those classes reflected that of the typical class at the school. What we have said is that easy grade classes exist at every D-1 school and are available for both athletes as well as non-athletes.
I see rival fans that love to label those AFAM classes as No Show classes, as if that were such a strange and different thing? But fact is the very school they love has both Independent study classes as well as online classes that do not meet in the traditional way, just as we do. And they point to us as having something different? You do know that many programs grant class credit for practicing your sport, available to only athletes in that sport, and lead, taught, and directed by their coaches? Regular students can not get in to those, they are 100% totally run by the coaching staffs and yet they worry about our easy grade classes that are open to all students and that had more regular students than athletes in them?
Debbie Crowder's name is a fire brand for those that love to hate us, she was the admin assistant that helped put together many of these classes and graded many of the turned in assignments. It is as if the fact that a department chair professor not doing the grading personally is this amazing discovery? Every time I see some one go off about that I have to wonder, did you ever attend college, a major university, did every one of your professors grade all your work or did they turn that over to their assistants? Man, you were lucky to get an after hours meeting with your professor, most of that kind of stuff was done by grad assistants and admin folk, in other words Debbie Crowder like folk.
This recent steering scandal that has rocked the NCAA was in direct violation of the NCAAs principle charter, it is in no way in the grey area of their jurisdiction, it is kinda their main function, maybe their only real reason for existing. But made very clear by the NCAAs charter is that they do now have nor do they ever want jurisdiction over the quality of classes at its member institutions.
So boiled down this AFAM stuff is and has always been about easy grade classes, like every other D-1 program has, that were not traditional type classes, like every other D-1 has, that were graded by admins like occurs at every other D-1 school, that is about academic difficulty and not that they didn't exist which is specifically per the NCAA not within their jurisdiction, where unlike the frequent allegation work was done and handed in.
It isn't as if UNC has a history of having others take SATs for their athletes, athletes where the NCAA acknowledges that high school class grades were changed but do not want to track it down and correct it, athletes that fail algebra 1 and yet magically pass ONLINE Algebra 2? And our athletes do not have $30k to drop down on bling to a jeweler and then rip him off for the balance due either...
Thank you so much for the reply. I attended a regional state university that had a mediocre academic reputation. I must admit that after the requirements of my major and minor were fulfilled, I took every easy class I could as electives. However, just reading the description of the A&AM studies classes in question, these would go far beyond the description of "easy." They appear to be at a early elementary school level. Which brings up another question. What was the purpose of these classes? Was it to increase the percentages of minorities at UNC? To keep athletes eligible? Was it just a few classes or could you get a major in A&AM studies?
If by elementary you think turning in a 30page synopsis then yes elementary. While not the hardest of thesis statements I never had to do a thirty pager in grade school. Now once I got to college they flew by that to 60-70 pg thesis statements but never 30 lol
Here's all I will say about colleges and some of the classes they offer. When I was a senior in college, I had 1 class I was required to take to graduate my last semester there. Problem was I had to have 12 hours minimum to stay in a dorm, so I had to fill my schedule with whatever I could. There was no way in hell I was taking a quantum physics class, so I did what ever other college student would and still does to this day when given a choice of classes to take: I found the easiest ones I could. (showing my age here) I took Gun Handling, where we shot skeet and reloaded shotgun shells, rock climbing and canoeing. Yes, canoeing. Since my dad owned a canoe shop and I had been on the rivers practically all my life, you can guess how difficult that class was. Sound like a difficult schedule?
Granted, nowadays there is no way you will find gun handling on a college campus (I even brought my own shotgun and stored it in the vault at the campus police department), but the point is it was offered and a lot of people took it. Same with rock climbing and canoeing. And, yes, there were athletes who took those classes, too.
A friend of mine played baseball at Campbell. He talked about having people do papers for him and even go to classes and take notes for him. He said if he wanted, he could've not set foot in a single class all through spring semester and passed with flying colors. At CAMPBELL.
Anyone who thinks these AFAM classes are unique to UNC is an idiot.
Granted, nowadays there is no way you will find gun handling on a college campus (I even brought my own shotgun and stored it in the vault at the campus police department), but the point is it was offered and a lot of people took it. Same with rock climbing and canoeing. And, yes, there were athletes who took those classes, too.
A friend of mine played baseball at Campbell. He talked about having people do papers for him and even go to classes and take notes for him. He said if he wanted, he could've not set foot in a single class all through spring semester and passed with flying colors. At CAMPBELL.
Anyone who thinks these AFAM classes are unique to UNC is an idiot.
that may be so, but if he had been exposed, would it result in an investigation at CAMPBELL, Just asking.Our professors couldn't care less if we went to class, but we had to show up for the exams.
rojas, first we covered this ground years ago. You need to re-read on the AFAM curriculum. The purposes of the curriculum/classes were to create an AFAM studies major and it was open to the entire UNC student enrollment. The classes/courses were never about athlete eligibility, although some took the easier classes. As with any major or University there are easy classes to be found.
Easy is easy, no other way to put it and of course, some athletes rook advantage of how easy they were but the point is extremely easy classes are offered everywhere AND it was not just athletes taking ours. Now yes, athletes will find these classes, they found them at UNC and the will find them at the rest of the D-1 schools as well. Their counselors will guide them to the easier classes either because they need the time that more difficult classes would drain for working on their sport or the fact that in season it is hard on athletes because they have travel schedules that do not agree with standard meeting classes.
And the truth is, many of the athletes at any D-1 program would not qualify to get in to the school they play for if they were not athletes. Yes, many have been passed thru high school and end up in college in no way ready to be a typical student taking a challenging schedule of classes, we absolutely get those just as every D-1 program does. But the ACC itself has a higher bar than many conferences and within the ACC UNC is harder to gain admissions for than many of the ACC programs.
Tell me this, same thing I ask every rival fan that comes here looking at our AFAM issue, do you look at your own program with the same critical eye? We Tar Heel fans are not proud of this, far from it but we are not hypocritical about it either. There are things that occur in every D-1 program in the nation and athletes finding and taking easy grade classes is one, players going out on the town and getting their bar tab covered happens. A few years back a KY restaurant owner was found to be feeding athletes and their friends and not charging them, media made a deal out of it for about a week but to me it was a non-issue, that kind of thing is just going to happen and no one really cares if it does. But this NCAA steering scandal, strippers being brought in to entertain HS kids on recruiting visits, sorry but that just isn't one of those happens everywhere things. That and William Wesley, who is maybe the most powerful off the books associate a college coach can have, he makes what the FBI have so far found to look down right amateurish. Nah, we don't all do that stuff and that is the stuff worth getting upset over.
Of course it would've resulted in an investigation and he didn't take anyone up on it, but it wasn't a big secret and it was available to him. My point being that it happens everywhere and for these rival fans to pretend like it doesn't is ridiculous.
Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. Nor do I condone anyone getting credit for anything they didn't do. I don't excuse violating rules for anyone and, IF UNC is ever shown to have broken the rules for athletes or regular students alike, I will not condone that either.
In this case, however, the only thing the NCAA has said is the classes were bogus. Well, sorry, but that isn't their call. UNC approved them and so did the accreditation service that handles ALL academic programs for universities. At best, the NCAA can prove WBB may have steered some athletes to these classes, but that is it. MBB didn't and Roy appears to have specifically steered his kids away from it once he started getting the impression something wasn't right with the major. And, with their own numbers showing slightly less than half of all participants being athletes, the NCAA really has nothing to stand on with this issue.
Now, if you want to talk about the validity of these classes and this major program, then that is another discussion altogether. IMHO, it was a politically motivated and driven major created to pacify a certain segment of the population and make UNC appear to be "enlightened". Frankly, I can't stand any "studies" majors, as they almost all have no real relevance to the real world. Students in these majors almost always end up as professors or in some government paid think tank somewhere and don't live in reality. Go major in something that has tangible value to the world as a whole and I will be impressed. But, that is a topic of discussion for another time, another thread and another board (OOTB).
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