Only problem is, it could change drastically by the time Roy steps down. But it is what it is, it comes up 2-3 times a year. Many believe Shaka will get the call 1st. I have no idea.
New 2017 post player offer
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Only problem is, it could change drastically by the time Roy steps down. But it is what it is, it comes up 2-3 times a year. Many believe Shaka will get the call 1st. I have no idea.
I hope coach williams stays for many years. I also hope when the time comes that the new guy isnt afraid to adapt to the changing game on the court and in recruiting.
Fact is i cant even imagine life after coach williams. I've known him since his owen days. I had several close friends play for him there and on the jv team at unc. I was privileged to have him in my dorm room a couple times when he visited with those friends. He was very engaging and friendly. He has represented unc better than anyone ever could. When the day comes for him to move on it will be a very sad one for me.
I believe the topic comes up simply for the very reason you mentioned, that things "change drastically" in CBB year-to-year. With coaching changes and recruiting becoming the integral key of College Basketball, you don't know what the landscape will look like more than the next 2 years or so. I don't think anyone was considering guys like Shaka Smart or Brad Stevens as a replacement in 2009. And seeing that Roy probably won't be coaching longer than 9 years (he was quoted for 10 last season), some are just looking at it more as what-ifs, rather than backup plans.
Concerning Smart, I imagine he will get a call, but he's turning Texas into a prime destination. We're even battling him for PJ right now. And it's looking like he might win out. May be hard to pull him from Texas, but who knows.
Me too! He saved our hineys and some seem to have forgotten that. He loves-bleeds UNC Blue. He has earned the right5 to step down when HE is ready and not before. jmhho
With the latest developments I'm not so sure it's Tx, may need to beat out UNLV.
heelman you just mentioned owen. What are your ties there? LOL thats where I attended.
I went to reynolds but hung out with several owen guys, Steve cantrell, james love, A guy named sonny whose last name i cant recall. Played a lot of pick up ball with porky spencer, was real good friends with the fb coach kenny ford.
No stinking way. I have no idea how to message you but how can we talk man? Whats the proper channel? You just did some name drops from the past!!!
Rose, first, for me there is a clear difference between very good hall of fame coaches and legendary coaches. Calhoun, Roy, Lute, John Thompson, Digger Phelps, Al McQuire, Lefty, Valvao and maybe a couple others that don't hit my mind due to a still lack of caffeine (only on my second cup of joe so still a lil slow) that for me is a list of great coaches that deserve to be in the hall of fame but to me they do not reach legendary status. Those men, as great a group of coaches as they are, are hard to replace but can be and Self replacing Roy is a great example of just that. But replacing a legendary coach is a different beast.
Yes, Gut replaced Dean and had a couple good seasons, for the most part he did so with Dean's recruits, harder to get the carry over from the legendary coaches recruits in this one & done era. K loads up on one & dones, who is he going to leave for that next coach? No matter if we like it or not, K is a legendary coach and we all know that even if we don't like it. I will tell any one right now, the darkest time I have ever witnessed in UNC basketball was in the Doh days, my opinion and unfortunately I was plugged in to be able to know a lot of stuff that went on that has never become public and I hope never does. It was hard to imagine how far this program had actually sunk in such a short while. For me the AFAM stuff was nothing in comparison.
Only reason I do not like to talk a lot about who I would like to see replace Roy is that front IMO is very static. I do not believe we will be as locked in to insisting the next coach has to be from the Roy or Dean tree, thou those that are will for sure have a leg up. Have said before one of the guys I wanted to see as a consideration from outside the family was Buzz Williams, I like Mark few a ton as well. Hubert's name comes up a lot but I don't think he is any where close to ready right now, maybe Phil could step in for a few years, I would LOVE to see that. I do not want it to be Steve or the guy in Maryland. Bobby Frazier may be ready by that time, King Rice the Monmouth coach, who IMO could lead the pack right now should get a strong look, maybe Haas by the time it becomes reality?
All I can tell ya is if it were my decision I would bring in Phil Ford, let him coach as long as he wants and bring in King Rice as an assistant along with Hubert. If that occurs, IMHO we would have at least 1 natty with Phil as the head coach and maybe more.
Having said all that, I don't know nor does anyone else here how long Roy will continue coaching. In a way the scandals may have extended his coaching tenure because I think Roy wants this program on top before he steps down, rather than leave it on the shaky footing it is still on but getting firmer by the day now the NCAA stuff has finally passed his program by. His health does seem to be draining away more & more so it could come sooner than many expect.
Nor do we know how long K will go on but the things that drive K seem to be less & less. he no longer chases the most wins goal, done with USA basketball, 2000 wins been there done that, maybe one more natty? Roy has reason to continue and K is kinda running out of reasons to. The last few years have seemed more as if K is trying to craft his legacy wanting to be seen more like Dean or Wooden, as loved and respected with a touch of not understanding why those men were so loved and he hated in so many corners. I think USA basketball was a way for him to craft his legendary status from the great cusser to a great coach that "saved" American Olympic basketball.
"Banking on K's retirement every year is like playing the same number each time at a roulette table and continuing to lose"
^ I disagree, it is more like playing the same slot machine over and over, absolute fact is that slot machine will pay off sooner or later and the more you play it the greater the odds in your favor become. K is not getting any younger and the day he will finally retire is closer today than it has ever been. Father time is and will always be undefeated, that is true for humans and cussin rodents! LOL
Go ask any Ky fan, before the recent Kalipari rise of that program has it ever been the same same Rupp. Go ask any UCLA fan, they have won a natty or 2 but it isn't nearly the same as it was with John Wooden, and go ask this or any other Tar Heel fan, everything changed the day Dean retired.
Sure, the brand that Dean forged for UNC will last, the brand all legendary coaches forge is lasting, but it fades over time. Now maybe lightening can strike twice in the same spot on consecutive days and one legendary coach can step down and another take his place, sure that is possible in as much as it is not impossible but the odds are up there with you winning the next mega bucks lotto so I would bet on it happening. AND if THAT does not happen then the only result is slippage, how far is hard to tell but history shows there is notable slippage, so far every time. That slippage may not have been seen as strong the years or 2 after a legend steps down because there is carry over but as that wanes and fans expectations do not, that is when things get real dicey as was the case with us in the Doh years.
It is not out of disrespect that I say replacing Roy will not be as hard as replacing Dean was and not a doubt in my mind that Roy would tell you the exact same thing 10 times to my one.
Kentucky did more than okay with Pitino in the 90's.
I think UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Dook are all safe as far having the brand-name/history that will sell recruits. Programs that are more liable to have a downward-swing, IMO, are schools like Syracuse and Michigan State with Boeheim and Izzo... One program that has already felt the effects of a great coaching leaving is Florida with Billy Donovan. I just can't see any of the four main blue-bloods losing too much ground in the recruiting wars. UCLA and Indiana have clearly lost traction over the years, so I suppose anything is possible.
I think UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Dook are all safe as far having the brand-name/history that will sell recruits. Programs that are more liable to have a downward-swing, IMO, are schools like Syracuse and Michigan State with Boeheim and Izzo... One program that has already felt the effects of a great coaching leaving is Florida with Billy Donovan. I just can't see any of the four main blue-bloods losing too much ground in the recruiting wars. UCLA and Indiana have clearly lost traction over the years, so I suppose anything is possible.
I'm not as enamored with Smart as many seem to be. I don't love that he's a system coach. We've done the system thing with Roy and while we've enjoyed great success, I don't think the next guy should go about it that way. I would prefer to have a real basketball mind - not just a recruiter and system guy. And really, is Smart that great of a recruiter? Texas is a big school with tons of money for great facilities and whatnot. How hard could it be to recruit to Texas. And I don't remember him signing any blue-chippers at VCU. I don't know...I like the guy but I'm not sure I'm all in on him for Roy's job when that day comes.
As you offer, Pitino was in the 90s, when did Rupp retire? I am not saying a program can never have more than 1 legendary coach thou I would not put Pitino in as a legendary coach but more in line with a great hall of fame coach, like Roy or Izzo, ect.
The UCLA brand is still there, it just does not shine as bright, the duke brand will be there but in time it is not going to shine as bright. The problem is, the legend steps down and while fans on one level can know things will not be the same, having them recall that when the out comes they got from that legendary coach are not met by the new coach does not last long.
It is not as simple as I built the house all you have to do is live in it. The bar of expectation is set by the legend, maybe to high for the legend to even meet. Funny how fans love a coach more when he retires than while he is still actively coaching? Rather than just live in the house the legend built in many ways the new coach will be expected to build an exact copy in the front yard and if that ain't impossible it is the next best thing.
slinger, I see Shaka and Tony Bennett in a much similar way, BOTH wonderful young coaches and could one day be hall of famer coaches themselves but not coaches that I want to head our program one day. And it is simply as you say, I don't love their preferred systems, respect it but I prefer a more wide open offense heavy on the running game.
Truth be told I don't love our defensive approach under Roy and have spoken to that many times.
Kentucky made it to a FF 3 years after Rupp left, and they won a Natty 6 years after he left. That's an improvement considering UK only had 1 FF in Rupp's final 14 seasons. Excuse me while I run to the toilet and vomit after defending Kentucky. That doesn't feel right.
http://johnclay.bloginky.com/2014/12/17/kentucky-and-ucla-after-adolph-rupp-and-john-wooden/
^ Interesting look at how Ky and UCLA each have done since their legendary coaches retired.
I don't know if we could pull it off but the guy to hire is Brad Stevens.
Bennett is a good coach but I'd hate to see that system at UNC. As already mentioned, Brad Stevens should get the first call and then probably Sean Miller or Mark Few. Maybe Haas if he has great success at Stanford.
Yup. He's building something nice with the Celtics, but I wouldn't be surprised if his heart is really in being a college coach. The Celtics won't be able to beat the Cavs until LeBron is old and washed up, so I think the race is between a job like UNC being open for Stevens to take, and LeBron retiring to open up the East for him and the Celtics.
I just hope Duke doesn't give him an offer before either of those happen.
Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin once did a movie called "Paint Your Wagon" .. the harmony parts between Clint and Lee were appropriate for this thread .. The tune was appropriately named in the credits as "I Was Born Under A Wandering Thread" .. And the movie "Crocodile Dundee" might also apply as this thread has gone walkabout in the outback. After a long enough time wine will turn to vinegar .. just saying.
You can go ahead and bet the ranch, when k steps down duke will do all they can to bring Brad Stevens in, ask any duke fan, they will tell you quickly, they want brad to replace K. Now I hope they don't but tell ya who I do NOT want them to pick, I don't want them to bring in Bobby Hurley because that guy IMO has potential to be a heck of a coach.
As for Brad Stevens, he is developing a lot of respect in the NBA and you do not see many NBA coaches come back to the college game that are successful as NBAS coaches, you see it when they bomb out like with kalipari but not the ones that are doing well. Think about it, you get paid more per season in the NBA than all but a very select few college coaches and the more you are respected that can even out pay all college coaches. You do not have to recruit, college coaches are either working with their teams, working clinics, or recruiting, very little time off as compared to NBA coaches that frankly, have a lot of their off season OFF.
Kinda hate to say this guys, the ship may not have yet sailed on our shots at a 5 star not yet committed but friends and family is waving goodbye from the dock. That is another way of saying the fat lady may not have sung yet but she is warming up her vocal cords...Vanderbilt is looking now like our best shot to snag a big man 5 star. PJ to play with his dad at UNLV, Bamba to Ky, Carter and Knox to duke, lets call that my opinion...
Agree Dave. I was the first to say that Findlay Prep hiring Pj's dad would be most beneficial to UNLV. I'd suggest going ahead and tempering expectations cause we ain't getting PJ. I also agree we're not getting any of the guys you mentioned and Vandebilt does appear to be our best shot but I even have my doubts about him. Unless Jalek is a 5* this year, we won't have any 5* commits for 2017.
whatever big 4/5 that's recruited and signs needs to play and develop in freshman year..cant have a "project" sitting a year, then 2018 recruiting comes recruiting another "project" type...cant be stubborn on the emphasis on the low post system RW is comfortable without the players to execute
If Pitino doesn't go to the pros after the '97 season and was still coaching there, I guarantee you UK would have at least a couple more championships than they won since he left, especially considering he left Tubby a championship team. He had UK on a serious roll before he was lured by NBA money. Thank God he was too! There's no doubt in my mind that he would have more rings than anybody not name Wooden if he had stayed. Can you imagine Wildcat fans if they had 10-11 titles vs the 8 they have now? Lordy.
Isnt Jalek a 5 star for every major recruiting site besides one? Are you going to go by the lone site that has him at 4 star?
I tend to think Arch is pretty close to the mark on this - Pitino was at the height of his powers at Kensuck. Not sure if he'd have reeled in 2-3 more titles, but if he'd stayed put from then till now he'd have a legacy like few others.
100% and it makes me think there have to be other forces at work out there.....
Any kid/parent/mentor, even a handler would agree that a top flight 2017 big man would get all the playing time, touches, attention and exposure he could hope for in the 17-18 season. It's a perfect storm for a OAD player.... and yet, no one is biting.
So if no top flight player sees or acknowledges the logic then, like I said, you have to wonder about other forces at work.
But, recruiting aint over and Roy hasn't stopped working, so we all can only hope he lands at least one elite level big and another good project big.
When the hurricane is over, it isn't back to normal, there is still a lot of clean up to do...
The cat 5 storm of NCAA investigation and the national media drilling us for 5 or so years may have mostly passed but now we have to deal with the clean up from that destruction of our recruiting.
I have asked the question "why is it just big men we are struggling to get"? We have done IMO well with guards and wings, it is big men we are missing on, why are we getting some very talented guards but struggling so much to get big men?
To answer my own question, have to realize, it isn't just one thing but multiple issues all coming together. First our guards have been 4 star guys with a couple of 5 star wings that were in reality more 4star than 5. We have gone in to the recruiting season for the last several years pretty much watching our big man offers go to 5 star big men with very few going to high 3star and 4 star guys.
This is important to understand because it is the 5 star big man that is the MOST likely by far to be one & done, it is MUCH more likely the 4 star big man stays in school more than just one season. Yet perception is that UNC is not the place for a one & done player to go so we have tended to offer the guy that would be the most hard for us to get while slow playing the guys we are more likely to get. But by the time we finally see the 5 star big man offers are not coming to us the high 3star and the 4 star big men have formed relationships with other programs. We could not even get the Watson kid to visit us?
Now I am not saying don't offer 5start big men, I am saying offer them yes but also offer the 4 star kids and if that bothers a 5 star you have offered then either take our offer or get over it. Roy has taken the 4 star kids and developed good teams with them, there are still several un-committed that could play for us, I mean play on a natty team, but it is real late in the game now, I feel like we needed to be in with at least 2 or 3 of these guys 2months ago but rather we are still chasing 5 star big men and our multiple offers have gone out to back court guys? I mean guys, we really have offers out right now to 2 more 2 guards? We already have 2 committed from this 2017 class, 1 or 2 more depending on what Leaky really is when he gets here, and an offer out to another 2018 2 guard?
Love Roy as our coach, trust Roy as our coach but I am really struggling to understand what he is doing? We needed offers out to 2 or 3 of these 4 star big men 2 months ago and we are still waiting? If we are still waiting on 5 star big men then I am afraid our success bringing in a solid big man that we desperately need will be like the 2015 class, swings and misses across the board. Brice & Joel are gone, Hicks and Meeks wil be after next season, kinda asking a lot of Tony to be our only guy 6'9" or more to handle our front court duty...
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