New 2017 post player offer
- Thread starter CarolinaMagic
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So you're telling people to worry when the ship is under water, not when it's sinking. Gotcha.
He is. And I'm stoked to have him. I think he's going to be really, really good - maybe by the end of this season. I like everything about him - his size, his style of play, his attitude, etc. But you had to have known I was bemoaning our inability to sign a big for the 2017 class.
lol. That's what I thought too. But the use of the word "worrying" is bothering me a little. Because rest assured, stuff like this certainly doesn't keep me up at night. But from a trivial, sports-watching standpoint, I guess "worrying" works.
The bottom line is that many of us are not comfortable with how 2017 recruiting is going in regards to our frontcourt. Yes, we can all remain positive and hope it works out. I plan to do that. But that doesn't mean I can't legitimately express a frustrated opinion. And when Roy is doling out scholarships to guards like @TarHeelNation11 is doling out handsies in the men's room, it has some of us perplexed. I'm not sure why we would have Roy or any of the staff even watching a guard from 2017 or 2018 right now. The focus should be big men and figuring out why we can't seem to garner interest from any.
Let me explain worrying in scientific terms:
If you worry and Roy ends up signing a couple of good bigs, that proves worrying works.
If you worry and we don't get any good bigs, that proves you were right to worry.
There is no downside to worrying. Everybody needs to do more of it.
Not sure why the word worrying is bothering you, since that's exactly what you are doing. Just because it doesn't keep you up at night, doesn't make it not worrying. It's August. We didn't get a commitment from Tony Bradley until midway through his senior season in high school. Same with Brob, and Seventh towards the end of his senior year, and I am supposed to sit here and act like Roy doesn't know what hes doing because we haven't gotten a commitment from a big in August, before school has even started? It's a sinking ship because no big has signed early. OK. Call it what you want to call it. I am going to call it worrying, and I'm not.
I tried to explain my comment and I think I did a pretty good job. It's not worrying because in the grand scheme of things, the players Carolina signs don't mean much to me. And in grown up world, worrying about something as meaningless as what high school basketball players we get would be absurd. I'm worried about paying tuition for my kids, the lawlessness culture that's being created in our country and radical Islam beheading people. Those are things to "worry" about.
But because this is a basketball message board and because I come here to escape concerns of the real world, I guess things would be relative. So from a meaningless sports-watching standpoint and because you seem excited to characterize it as "worrying", I guess I'll get on board for arguments' sake. And while it was great to get a commitment from Bradley, if he hadn't committed, we would have been ok with Meeks, Hicks and Maye. Thuis, less worry. If we do not get a commitment from a 2017 big that's ready to play, we're looking at Bradley and Maye playing 40 minutes per game. That's a bit different than had Bradley not committed. And so it heightens the anxiety.
I can't explain either point better than that.
Whatever you say slinger. Hopefully your anxiety level remains tolerable during this time.
Looking at the anxiety level of some here, can you even stop and imagine how Roy & Company must feel seeing all these "behind closed doors" deals are going down to get recruits?
Roy will not play the game with "Handlers" and shoe companies to get these recruits and I'm glad he won't.
Roy will not play the game with "Handlers" and shoe companies to get these recruits and I'm glad he won't.
We use words all the time to express feelings on something like sports that we really all understand mean different things than real world real life issues do. But lets face it, we do take our sports seriously, other wise we wouldn't really care, we wouldn't watch them, we wouldn't discuss them on message boards. There are actually fans li
I think people tend to under estimate how seriously they take sports in their lives. WE try to dismiss it as nothing but a distraction but is it really? For example, those emotions you felt right after that nova kid hit that last shot, were they intense? Did you really forget about that shot 5mins after the game had ended? There were folks here still upset over it a month later, may be some still upset over it? That seems to me to be something they took seriously. People have been killed at soccer matches, that is serious and that is real.
Of course when you step back and take a look it may seem silly, all this mental investment in a game that I have no say so in the out come of. But it is a passion that strikes at the heart of our emotions and when your emotions get involved it is already serious. And it is OK, to take something as silly as a sport that you have no input to the final out come, it is OK to take that seriously even if all it does is take your mind away from things that are much more important for just a little while.
Do we take our passion for a sport as seriously as some other things in our lives, hopefully not but that is not saying that they mean nothing to us, if they ment nothing none of us would even have this web site saved in our puter!
Mikey, don't ya just have to wonder why, when a coach trying to do things the right way discovers dirty tricks, why he does not report them to the NCAA? Evil exists when good men do nothing...
It's a game he could not win. NEVER try and wallow in the dirt with trash, it will beat you every time with experience.
And we just ignore the 3 previous 10+ loss seasons in a row, right? No that's not reason, that's picking and choosing what to focus on.
You know as well as I do that the previous season doesn't have much effect when it comes to tournament results. Just because Villanova won the title, doesn't guarantee a return trip.
Roy obviously did extremely well despite the circumstances stacked against us. But you also have to keep in mind that schools like Dook and UK were extremely untalented compared to prior years before. The circumstances were perfect for a year where having playing experience trumped young raw talent.
This is not discrediting Roy, but just examining without my UNC blue goggles on.
Winning is great. Consistency is greater. So let's see if Roy can keep that same momentum.
I think it's important to have a good mix of youth and experience. Granted there are some, albeit few, very talented freshman college players that are NBA lottery draft-able but that doesn't necessarily mean they can walk on the court and blow away an experienced college senior because the NBA drafts potential and the 3 yr. age gap is actually pretty steep from both the physical/body standpoint as well as the benefit of 3 or so yrs. of team chemistry. If you look back UNC has had some incredibly talented players and the majority of them were not OAD but were players that were developed in fundamentals and a work ethic which served them well as they moved to the professional ranks.
Now to be honest, I do not dwell on the recruiting aspect of UNC bb as much as some because that is more of an objective observational evaluation than opinion, and I can assure you the UNC coaching staff (and probably most regular posters on this board) is exponentially better at assessing potential for their college basketball program and its needs. Will the shooting guard recruited today grow to a SF ?? Does the program see a small ball athletic group with a point forward or 2 SG's where either are point capable .. or 3 decent outside shooters with smaller athletic forwards that will penetrate and crash the boards? There is so much that has to go into making a college team that can be competitive in D1 BB year in and year out I don't have the time to "worry" about who dresses out in '17, '18, '19 or '20 but I do believe this. We will have a really good bb team this year and I honestly believe we will add two big 4*+ players before the 17 season starts.
To many people are in to this instant gratification crap and all your doing is looking for an ego quickie .. sit back and appreciate the "here and now" .. next year will be hear soon enough .. or not .... jmho
Now to be honest, I do not dwell on the recruiting aspect of UNC bb as much as some because that is more of an objective observational evaluation than opinion, and I can assure you the UNC coaching staff (and probably most regular posters on this board) is exponentially better at assessing potential for their college basketball program and its needs. Will the shooting guard recruited today grow to a SF ?? Does the program see a small ball athletic group with a point forward or 2 SG's where either are point capable .. or 3 decent outside shooters with smaller athletic forwards that will penetrate and crash the boards? There is so much that has to go into making a college team that can be competitive in D1 BB year in and year out I don't have the time to "worry" about who dresses out in '17, '18, '19 or '20 but I do believe this. We will have a really good bb team this year and I honestly believe we will add two big 4*+ players before the 17 season starts.
To many people are in to this instant gratification crap and all your doing is looking for an ego quickie .. sit back and appreciate the "here and now" .. next year will be hear soon enough .. or not .... jmho
We have more tournament wins than Dook does in the past 5 years (12 to 11) and the past 10 years (28 to 22). Outside of 2010 and 2015, Dook has only won 10 tournament games in the last 10 season. If you take out 2009 and 2016 for us, we've still won 17 tournament games in the last 10 years, which is significantly more than Dook (70% more). Contrary to popular opinion around the college basketball world, we've actually been the more consistent program.
I'd take a title over 10 1st and 2nd round wins any day.
As would we all. But dook has the same number of titles in the last 15 years as UNC does.
I'll bet very few UNC fans are even aware of this. In fact, I'd bet most would have thought just the opposite. For all of the LOMs success, he's had a lot of early exits with very talented teams.
As would I. But the narrative being presented around the country seems to suggest that Dook is leaps and bounds ahead of us - which is the furthest thing from the truth. We've made it to the Elite 8 six times in the last 10 years. We're consistently competing for ACC Titles, Regional Titles, and National Titles. But I agree with the above, national titles are obviously preferred. We've been there before, and we'll get back there again.
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It's not in dook's favor either and they're supposedly the bench mark right now. It's glass half full vs glass half empty. I tend to see the first.
LOL, sometimes I wonder if the better question would be "Is the red solo cup half full or half empty"?
Are you serious? they've managed to win 5 national championships in the span of 25 years, more than any school in that same span in this era, and that doesn't give them a claim for top dog at the moment?
This is not a glass half full or half empty situation, this is just delusional. If they aren't considered to be ahead of us "at the moment", I don't know what you all think "ahead" actually is.
Is it a year from now, maybe 2, could be 3, maybe 4, at some point the negative recruiting is going to hammer K because he is on his last legs. Would YOU be shocked if I told ya next season would be Ks last? Surprised maybe but not shocked, they are about done, dukies know it even if they do not want to talk about it, K is about history. he will not be there 5yrs from now, may not be there 2 more years. The duke will have to face what we have already had to face, losing their legend. We rebounded very quickly, some programs never really do, UCLA has had good seasons but they have never regained what they once were, would you call them a true blue blood today?
We Tar Heel already know, replacing a legend is not as easy as you think. We are going to have to replace Roy in the next few years but replacing Roy is no where near what it was to replace Dean and it will be no where near what it will be to replace K either. No disrespect to Roy but Roy will tell ya quicker than I will, Roy ain't Dean and what dukies will come to realize, no matter who they bring in, that guy will not be K. They can think they are ready for the transition all they want, the reality its much worse than they realize, we know, we been there, they have not been.
It's crazy but I don't even think recruits look at how many tourney games won/lost, and if you ask most 15-17yr old kids they wouldn't have a clue who Lehigh or Mercer are.
BUT, when Roy brings a recruit into the Dean Dome for the massive rivalry game and the Heels lay an egg, that sinks in. UNC has lost at home to Dook 5 times since Psycho T left.
In that time (AT - After Tyler) Dook holds an 11-4 record (Including an ACC tourney win)
Not only that, it's the nature of some of the losses: The Rivers Shot in '12, Curry going off in '13, The meltdown in Cameron in '15 and this year's unexplainable home loss.
Some of Roy's best recruiting occurred between '05 and '09 when, backed up by championship momentum, the Heels had a 7-3 advantage over Dook and, the term Hansborough Indoor Stadium was coined.
I've said on here many times, the Heels need to at least match it with Dook in the regular season, those are the games recruits remember. The kids are sitting there, courtside and able to watch and feel the magic of the game. There's not much magic nor locker room celebrations when you're run off your home court.
BUT, when Roy brings a recruit into the Dean Dome for the massive rivalry game and the Heels lay an egg, that sinks in. UNC has lost at home to Dook 5 times since Psycho T left.
In that time (AT - After Tyler) Dook holds an 11-4 record (Including an ACC tourney win)
Not only that, it's the nature of some of the losses: The Rivers Shot in '12, Curry going off in '13, The meltdown in Cameron in '15 and this year's unexplainable home loss.
Some of Roy's best recruiting occurred between '05 and '09 when, backed up by championship momentum, the Heels had a 7-3 advantage over Dook and, the term Hansborough Indoor Stadium was coined.
I've said on here many times, the Heels need to at least match it with Dook in the regular season, those are the games recruits remember. The kids are sitting there, courtside and able to watch and feel the magic of the game. There's not much magic nor locker room celebrations when you're run off your home court.
Well you are about to get consistency, because we are going to make another deep run in the tourny.
K has been "on his last legs" and "done" for years now. Some thought K was done after we won our title in 2009. He said otherwise. If it's not talking about Cal jumping to the NBA or getting hit with infractions, it's K retiring. Almost an urban legend or myth of the college basketball world every offseason.
Thanks to Capel and other factors like Kyrie Irving, K has revitalized the Dook program. Almost to the point that these younger kids now consider Dook to be a prime spot. As strange as it sounds to fans, it's clearly the case when looking from a recruiting standpoint.
It will happen eventually, of course. But until it does, he'll have that program up and running most likely.
And that doesn't necessarily mean they fall to obscurity like some believe. They'll hit some rough ground just like we did, but to claim it will be of UCLA magnitude is not realistic IMO.
Who knows, Dook may get their "Roy". I'd imagine that'd be a guy like Brey at ND. Perhaps not, but you never know. I was fairly young around the Dean-Roy transition, but I imagine the same could have been said when Dean stepped down for us too.
Sure hope so. All this fan could ask for.
If K retired next year, I'm 95% certain they'd hire Capel. Not sure about Capel's coaching ability, but the guy can recruit.
Once again, your tendency to overreact to something someone posts surfaces. There's a reason I mentioned they were supposed to be the bench mark right now. And we're tied with UK for second with three. Horrible, right?
"Ahead" is clearly what some peeps keep firmly stuck up their...... (along with reading comprehension and the concept of thinking before speaking!)
Boy would I LOVE it if they hired Capel! He can "recruit" but he can also leave programs under suspicion so puke and he deserve each other!
On a topical note: I love the wider net Roy is casting now. I trust his talent evaluation more than any other coach and I can't wait to see the completed hauls of '17 and '18!
Boy would I LOVE it if they hired Capel! He can "recruit" but he can also leave programs under suspicion so puke and he deserve each other!
On a topical note: I love the wider net Roy is casting now. I trust his talent evaluation more than any other coach and I can't wait to see the completed hauls of '17 and '18!
Uconn has 4...
And if there's one thing I can't stand it's being behind Uconn in anything.
We can certainly agree on that. There's also no doubt that they're one of the basketball blue bloods.
First off, FATHER TIME IS UN-DEFEATED ! In the end he ALWAYS wins...
"K has been "on his last legs" and "done" for years now", yep now make the case for me that is less true today than it has ever been?
Duke, the hip spot for great talent, yeah, they are the hot recruiting program right now but why is that? Is some part of that due to K and his gig with USA basketball, I think we can all agree that to some extent that has been a huge help. K is NOW done as head coach for USA Olympic basketball, so to what ever extent that helped, that help is now done. Unless they have discovered the fountain of youth and have not told anyone, K is not getting any younger, now if they have please give me a link to it cause I want a bottle! LOL
Capel, well the history is there concerning his head coaching gig at Okey, he may get a ;little extra cover by K now but when K goes away that extra cover he gets now goes away. No NCAA trying to preserve the K legacy puts Capel on his own and we have already watched that movie, maybe he will add Quinn Snyder to that staff! LOL
Who is the duke version of Roy, if there were one he would be very high profiled right now because agree or not, K is long in the tooth. Simply put, there is not version of Roy, as a well established and very successful coach for many seasons for duke to fall back to. What do they have Capel, Snyder, Hurley, Mike Brey is not going back to duke, that didn't end well when he left. Duke fans talk in terms of coaches that are not from K's tree as the main guys they want to take over when K steps down, I was one of the very few that did not automatically prefer Roy (I wanted Phil Ford) on the day we were all shocked at Dean's retirement.
Duke could hire a great coach when K steps down but typically you just do not want to take over as the head coach when a legendary coach steps down because the bar of expectation makes it nearly impossible for the next coach to be seen as successful. If dean or K were young coaches today they would have both been fired before they had a chance to really turn their programs in to what they are today. It is going to be extremely hard for the next duke coach and usually translates in to a fan base getting really upset really quick.
And I would suggest, while Roy is a hall of fame coach, he is not a legendary coach, it will not be nearly as hard for us to replace Roy when that time comes as it will be for duke to replace K. When was it, the last time a program saw their legendary coach retire and there not be very notable slippage?
Now my list of legendary coaches may not agree with yours but look at the fortunes of programs when legendary coaches stepped own. Wooden, Dean, Rupp, Iba, Bobby Knight, yes I have Bobby Knight on that list and don't care if any one else agrees. K will join that list, I don't have to like it, I do respect it. You just don't replace guys like that without that program slipping hard...
We did okay post-Dean minus the Doherty years. Kentucky did okay without Rupp (made it to the Elite 8 the first year and a FF within 3 years). In more recent times, UConn and Arizona have both transitioned well without Jim Calhoun and Lute Olsen. UConn isn't as consistent as they were with Calhoun, but Ollie already has himself a Natty - and Sean Miller has been to several Elite Eights.
I don't think this argument holds much weight, personally. Will Duke be the same without K? Idk, probably not. But it's not like they're going to suddenly become a fringe top-25 team once he departs.
I don't think this argument holds much weight, personally. Will Duke be the same without K? Idk, probably not. But it's not like they're going to suddenly become a fringe top-25 team once he departs.
First, as stated, UConn has 4, so we're actually tied for 3rd.
Second, you said Dook winning 5 national championships doesn't help their claim of being "the benchmark". Now I'm going to assume whatever "benchmark" means is similar to saying "top dog". So again, that means you are saying winning 5 natonal championships in a 25 year span, more than any other team mind you, doesn't mean they have a claim for the best team at the moment.
From a statistical and fan standpoint, you are making zero sense. So I'm trying to figure out who you think has a better claim, and what makes it better? Truthfully, I just think you're hung up on the fact that
Stop this absurdity. No one is overreacting. I, and it seems a few others, are simply tired of you and others passing off inaccurate, biased logic as "being optimistic", while anyone who calls you out with an objecting opinion who isn't preaching the brand of "RAH-RAH" propaganda some of you love get branded as "being pessimistic".
Truth is, you just aren't making an ounce of sense and want to focus on me calling you out on it.
Banking on K's retirement every year is like playing the same number each time at a roulette table and continuing to lose. Meaning, your stake is diminishing each time. Whenever it happens, so be it. I'll be glad as I'm sure many of you will. But it's pointless to keep waiting on it.
But why is it hard to believe that they can't find a "Roy"? Considering the current landscape of HC, can't imagine many coaches wouldn't heavily consider making the jump if given the opportunity.
And if they're so certain to not find the guy who can come in and keep the program running, then why is it a guarantee that it won't be just as hard to replace Roy? Roy may not be a "Legendary" coach but he sure as hell is a good one.
Who do you have in mind that's going to jump when that time comes and keep us gunning? Considering even mentioning Roy's inevitable replacement is considered sacrilegious by some here, I'd love to hear some folks talk about it more candidly. I'd love to believe we're going to get a guy who comes in and furthers the UNC Basketball franchise at an elite level immediately after Roy steps down, but to say it won't be "as hard" is an underestimate IMO.
I don't have a list of "legendary coaches" handy to go off of, but I can think of a few examples of schools that managed to keep from falling into complete obscurity after their prominent HC stepped down. Calhoun (Replaced by Ollie) and Roy @ Kansas (Replaced by Self). Olson (Replaced by Miller), although Arizona may not be considered an "Elite School", they do manage to stay relevant in today's CB climate.
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