New 2017 post player offer
- Thread starter CarolinaMagic
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seems a tad late. could the lack of earlier offers be traced back to Roy's surgery?
Certainly a possibility . . or this is vintage Roy and his insistence of establishing a relationship first before offering.
This offer has been showing on the Rivals board for a good while now, but has yet to show on 247 or Scout. They can't all be right.
Chatter from where?
His dad has confirmed official visits to UNC, Tex, uk, and AZ and one more TBD.
uk thinks they lead for everybody.
Various sources.... Why, Does this not meet your "everything pro UNC" agenda that you spew?
I took it as you were questioning my initial comment because it didn't jive with what you believe and/or have heard.
Well, it may not necessarily... but always interested in what folks are hearing out there.
What if we all assumed good will? Jeez.
And some of us realize those aren't mutually exclusive.
Part of having a glass half empty or half full means that there is indeed something in the glass to decide on.
So when I see all these "RAH RAH GO TEAM UNC AND TEAM ROY! IF YOU DISAGREE YOURE A HATER" and the "sky isn't falling do just have faith" posts with not much reason or nuance to be supplied with other than rehashed quotes over the past 4-5 years, that just doesn't fly. Because that's not what realism is. Thats not even a combination. That's 110% of that "good will". Or as it should be called, blind optimism.
So, Roseheel, you just want Roy to quit offering top players? Do you think that is going to help, or is a reasonable approach to recruiting? Lay out your master plan for us.
Realism is all those banners in the rafters.
Optimism is believing we'll continue adding banners.
Pessimism is believing that we won't.
You're right. There is a choice in the matter. Most of us prefer to use our eyes and our memories to pontificate on our future. Rational optimism. Not blind.
Choosing not to see or remember all of our success at Carolina is the only blindness apparent to me here.
IDK Rose, I don't like to group all things in to a collective box. I take one issue at a time and in some I absolutely could be seen as a glass half full guy and others not so much. It just depends on that specific topic for me.
For me, if I disagree I just disagree with that particular aspect. There is nuance to most things, I just cannot understand why folks have to separate themselves in to groups. This rah rah vs gloomer stuff I just can not understand. ESPECIALLY when we actually agree more than disagree on discussion topics. I mean when someone on a UNC site flatly says "TIME TO GO OLE ROY" it just is not going to be received well by the majority of UNC fans that love Roy. But just as true are those that say don't question Roy or do you know more than Roy, he is in the hall of fame or even the simply I trust Roy. I disagree with what Roy does all the time but I explain what I disagree with as completely as I can and I say it with ut most of Respect toward Roy and the job he has done for UNC. So am I a rah rah or a gloomer, I don't even know, fact is I am some of both and I think most are as well.
Rose, you & I have agreed on things in the past as well as disagreed, I think we have agreed much more than not. I honestly do not think you are a gloomer or a rah rah, you seem like me, to be both, depending on the topic and what is going on at the time. Am i wrong?
That is exactly why my posts can get so long, I try to make sure I explain my nuance as clearly as I can. I absolutely hate to repeat things, I try to find different tangents to freshen up and old stale conversation that has already been had multiple times. I try to refrain telling folks what to think or offer as fact what is actually my opinion, you see me add a bunch of IMOs when I post so it can not be confused with my saying it is fact.
My rule is that I NEVER say anything here that I am not 100% willing to say to someone face to face, good bad or other wise.
Ned, what I honestly think is happening is that since our last natty we have been bombarded, for years now by bad thing after bad thing. Think about it, Henson's freshman season nearly the entire team was injured, then NCAA issues in football, then the AFAM stuff, then PJ and Lmac, death of Dean and Gut, one & done feeding recruits we used to get to our 2 hated rivals and watching them both win nattys, and even shooting slumps with marcus and Justin last season. It got to the point there for a while I was afraid to pull this site up not knowing what new scandal we would have to deal with today.
Honestly, it made me want to defend this home turf from the daily invasion of rival fans coming here to smear our troubles in our face or share with us their anti UNC spin. I think it got a lot of folks on the defensive end of things and I think it allowed those that took the path of just depression to be treated at times like invaders from a rival site. Honestly, at times it was really hard to tell the difference and truth is I have read things from UNC fans here that dukies would not even say here.
I do think that many became so conditioned to negative stuff and expecting the worst that it kinda became more of their over all view, that this is just the way it is going to be from now on. I have fought against that hard, because this is UNC and IMO we should remain PROUD, we may get knocked down but we get back up and take the fight to you. UNC fans should be coming together not continuing to divide, at least in my opinion.
Congrats on wildly missing the point. I meant in reading the tone of other's posts and replies.
Well let's see, we've continued to miss on the top 10-15 recruits for 3, going on 4, straight classes. Instead of trying to perhaps build our way back up to a destination that OAD's may want to come and play for?
But forget all that, considering most of the more...."seasoned" fans of this board don't want us to turn into OAD University anyway, why are you suddenly wanting to offer all the top recruits when the chances with them are astronomically low?? That's not only illogical, that's downright idiotic.
The question I've posed and is always avoided: why not make our first offers to guys we tend to have ground with or in our level of comfort? It seems the average level of recruit we tend to land now is 20-150, and considering that would give us the type of class that many of us have been pushing for vs building a stacked roster of OAD's, that should make more sense than going after the guys who "grow up Louisville fans with their parents wanting them at Dook" AKA our recent shot in the dark, Romeo Langford?
Now I can agree that Roy more than likely has better info on this than any of us would, but I also know that our current tactics are what resulted in our previous subpar classes.
But of course, sometimes I forget that simply asking questions and stating the obvious can relate to bashing/mistrusting Roy with some here. we should just continue avoiding the harder questions
Every time I step inside of the Dean Dome I recognize what an honor it is to be apart of that tradition, regardless of the banners. That's realism.
F*ck Pessimism or Optimism. I don't care if it takes 2 or 20 more years to win the next banner, but I sure as hell know that times have changed since we won that 5th NCAA Title and since we were so close to that 6th one last year. Something I don't think many of you recognize. Or simply try so hard to disregard, perhaps. Some of you want to stick your fingers in your ear and go "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA", but whether you want to accept it or not, times HAVE changed
I don't mean that with the doom and gloom some of my fellow posters bring it with, but with honesty. Lousiville is facing a more open ended scandal than we are, and yet the just landed a 4 * Guard with an Elite Big man in tow. Something we've been clamoring for for the past year. But just a coincidence again?
Said it before and I'll say it again, we don't have to become OAD University to win titles, but pretending our current strategy that's worked in the past will continue to work when it's clearly hasn't is insanity.
I'm not going to sing sweet, gentle praises in my posts like it seems many of you want to do with each other. I'll save that for your "Rational Optimistic" crowd.
And I'm not worried about when our next title comes. But I do like competing for them. Really not looking forward to what many of you will blame if and possibly when the NCAA scandal stuff clears and we're still taking the same approach.
I clearly wasn't even in this post. Try to respond to the quote that actually concerned your opinion, not the one meant for someone else.
DSouthr, I enjoy our discussions because you don't strike me as the gloom or rah rah type either. Normally I'd try to type up a longer response, but this post is already longer than it should be.
What gets so old is when people continue to make offhand responses about people not 100% rallying behind a recruiting offer as something negative. And let's be honest, there are literally only a few responses that "good will" remark could have only been towards those that disliked/felt negatively towards this offer. Because of our "tone".
There is a level of negativity and positivity that is just simply unrealistic and borderline ridiculous on this board, and it is usually addressed most occasions. Perhaps I've been leaning towards negativity recently, but anyone with the slightest idea with recruiting can get a hint of where our recruitment is going at this moment. I've "kept faith in Roy" before, but Roy can isn't a god. He's working with a lot on his plate.
That being said, Roy's recruiting patterns have always been one like a roller coaster. He'll have a stretch of making seemingly great recruiting decisions (Coby White, Rechon Black, Matthew Hurt) and then ones that make you pull your hair (Lack of offers to Big Men, Matt Coleman, Vanderbilt). Just tired of getting slack for disliking the bad ones when I do credit him for the good ones.
As far as Stokes, no inside info, but I imagine he won't get much covering of his recruitments seeing he's in the triple digits and switched to BB later on in his recruitment.
Never an easy commitment nowadays, but I imagine our biggest challenges are the schools in Tennessee
Never an easy commitment nowadays, but I imagine our biggest challenges are the schools in Tennessee
Rose, as you may realize, I strongly believe Tar Heel fans should be united in a us vs the world manner considering how we have been dragged thru the mud by the national media for so long now. We don't have to agree, we can't always agree, but I do believe we should all have a common thread sewn thru us of being Tar Heels.
I get it, some folks just feel really depressed at the state of things right now and find it hard to see how the glass can be half full. When you express what you feel you do not appreciate being mocked if you do not walk lock step with folks that want to tell you everything will be great. What happens is one side of the argument will escalate it and then the other side of the argument will have to one up that and before you know it both sides are at extremes saying things they don't even believe. And what you end up with is what we have seen right here, a war.
Rose, you & I have discussed things a good bit, if I believe something I believe it and I will defend what I believe hard, I throw hard balls, not soft balls but I try to do so fairly. I prefer to talk things out as opposed to picking sides but every now and then I will get fed up with the nonsense and then I go off! LOL
I guess maybe the more gloomy folks have more issue with me than those that see things as always sunny but I really see myself as sometimes things are great and sometimes they ain't, certain aspects of UNC basketball are GREAT right now and certain aspects of it are not. And I do not hesitate to talk about both the good and the bad. The dividing line for me is showing respect, to other posters, to the players, to the coaching staff, and to the school. But some folks don't seem able to define respect the same way I do, for some strange reason some feel that because you disagree with me you are not respectful so they go off in a tiff. If I believe in a position I take I do not find it hard to defend it or to explain it. But if people do not believe in something and someone challenges then childish dis-respectful things occur.
When you present things that you believe, don't worry how someone else will take it, as long as you offer your opinions respectfully, you have no need to worry that someone else may disagree. I NEVER worry if folks will disagree with what I say here, some will land some will not, I enjoy a discussion out of disagreement many times more than one of agreement.
From our exchanges, that is exactly how I see you, we will not always agree but we can discuss what we don't agree with and sometimes we agree to disagree, nothing at all wrong with that.
If for example, I were to say that our recruiting is a concern for me right now (and it is) and someone replies with TRUST ROY> That kinda drives me nutzs because it does not tell me anything, that is a discussion killer, not something that fosters discussion. Discussion is what boards like this are for. I trust Roy but tell me why our recruiting is not a concern, it should be just as much or more concern to Roy.
I get it, some folks just feel really depressed at the state of things right now and find it hard to see how the glass can be half full. When you express what you feel you do not appreciate being mocked if you do not walk lock step with folks that want to tell you everything will be great. What happens is one side of the argument will escalate it and then the other side of the argument will have to one up that and before you know it both sides are at extremes saying things they don't even believe. And what you end up with is what we have seen right here, a war.
Rose, you & I have discussed things a good bit, if I believe something I believe it and I will defend what I believe hard, I throw hard balls, not soft balls but I try to do so fairly. I prefer to talk things out as opposed to picking sides but every now and then I will get fed up with the nonsense and then I go off! LOL
I guess maybe the more gloomy folks have more issue with me than those that see things as always sunny but I really see myself as sometimes things are great and sometimes they ain't, certain aspects of UNC basketball are GREAT right now and certain aspects of it are not. And I do not hesitate to talk about both the good and the bad. The dividing line for me is showing respect, to other posters, to the players, to the coaching staff, and to the school. But some folks don't seem able to define respect the same way I do, for some strange reason some feel that because you disagree with me you are not respectful so they go off in a tiff. If I believe in a position I take I do not find it hard to defend it or to explain it. But if people do not believe in something and someone challenges then childish dis-respectful things occur.
When you present things that you believe, don't worry how someone else will take it, as long as you offer your opinions respectfully, you have no need to worry that someone else may disagree. I NEVER worry if folks will disagree with what I say here, some will land some will not, I enjoy a discussion out of disagreement many times more than one of agreement.
From our exchanges, that is exactly how I see you, we will not always agree but we can discuss what we don't agree with and sometimes we agree to disagree, nothing at all wrong with that.
If for example, I were to say that our recruiting is a concern for me right now (and it is) and someone replies with TRUST ROY> That kinda drives me nutzs because it does not tell me anything, that is a discussion killer, not something that fosters discussion. Discussion is what boards like this are for. I trust Roy but tell me why our recruiting is not a concern, it should be just as much or more concern to Roy.
Rose, not sure I completely understand "The question I've posed and is always avoided: why not make our first offers to guys we tend to have ground with or in our level of comfort?"
I would suggest, we are UNC and UNC recruits the top players in the country as all blue blood programs do. But I as well want us to not spend so much effort on guys we are not going to get and forget about the guys we could get. Now that doesn't mean oh no duke or ky just offered the kid, time for us to cut & run. But as much as we would love to snag Bamba, Carter, Knox, PJ ... does not look great for us with any of those guys and even if it did, still offer the 3 or 4 star that you feel can help your program. That does not mean offer a kid out of desperation, it just means HEDGE YOUR BETS because you are not always or often getting every one you want. Heard the ole saying, fail to plan and you plan to fail, well no back up plan to me is a plan to fail. You do not have a back up plan in place until you offer a kid and if you wait to long your back up plan is gone and you are left holding...
Recruiting right is a problem for us and you darn right times have changed. Now the real power brokers with the top 20 kids are the summer league coaches, much more than their high school coaches and appreal companies like Nike. It was not long ago that AAU coaches used to beg to place their players at UNC, they are no longer begging. Other schools, more successful in recruiting than we are right now are working the summer league programs and those coaches much better than we are, Roy tends to place more stock in high school coaches. The summer league coaches tend to be dirter, they tend to look for what is in it for them, now rather than their begging college coaches to place their players at a blue blood program it is almost the college coach begging the summer league coach for his players. We are really getting smoked in that department IMO, I really think Roy needs to adjust to this by bringing in an ambassador for the program to work on AAU and EYBL relationship building. And really, UNC needs to exert some of its influence with Nike, we are a big time Nike program, Nike needs to support us better than they strike me as doing for the last few years.
I would suggest, we are UNC and UNC recruits the top players in the country as all blue blood programs do. But I as well want us to not spend so much effort on guys we are not going to get and forget about the guys we could get. Now that doesn't mean oh no duke or ky just offered the kid, time for us to cut & run. But as much as we would love to snag Bamba, Carter, Knox, PJ ... does not look great for us with any of those guys and even if it did, still offer the 3 or 4 star that you feel can help your program. That does not mean offer a kid out of desperation, it just means HEDGE YOUR BETS because you are not always or often getting every one you want. Heard the ole saying, fail to plan and you plan to fail, well no back up plan to me is a plan to fail. You do not have a back up plan in place until you offer a kid and if you wait to long your back up plan is gone and you are left holding...
Recruiting right is a problem for us and you darn right times have changed. Now the real power brokers with the top 20 kids are the summer league coaches, much more than their high school coaches and appreal companies like Nike. It was not long ago that AAU coaches used to beg to place their players at UNC, they are no longer begging. Other schools, more successful in recruiting than we are right now are working the summer league programs and those coaches much better than we are, Roy tends to place more stock in high school coaches. The summer league coaches tend to be dirter, they tend to look for what is in it for them, now rather than their begging college coaches to place their players at a blue blood program it is almost the college coach begging the summer league coach for his players. We are really getting smoked in that department IMO, I really think Roy needs to adjust to this by bringing in an ambassador for the program to work on AAU and EYBL relationship building. And really, UNC needs to exert some of its influence with Nike, we are a big time Nike program, Nike needs to support us better than they strike me as doing for the last few years.
In spite of the dark clouds hanging over UNC Roy took our boys to withtin seconds of a Championship last season. How is that for "reason"?
Mike I wish that I could like this 200 times. There is a lot more to basketball than just recruiting. "Get what you get and don't pitch a fit." We destroyed Indiana, which beat the team that "out recruits us." Roy is gonna get his and is never gonna lay down.
Which takes us back to an important point, NCAA titles are not won in the summer, they are won in march and the first week in april.
We can all agree, recruiting is not what it was, we may disagree to an extent why that is and maybe what we would like done about it. But the more important point is actually not looking to jump off a cliff if we do not get the mega talents that duke or Ky are getting. The MUCH MORE important point is no matter what star ratings we may have, it is about how the team plays and how far we advance.
Do you really care if we played in the natty game last season with or without a single one & done player, cause I don't. I could care less how many stars a kid had coming in, I care more about the fact we played in the natty game and don't look now but we are one of the favorites to do that again this season. If Roy can coach 3 stars to win a natty, I am just as happy as I would be if we won the natty with 5 five stars.
Frankly, I would rather we get a 3 or 4 star kid to play like a 5 star than a 5 star play like a 3 or 4 star recruit. Ky right now, IMO, has a couple of 5 star bigs that I think will play below their 5 star rating because they will be in a system that does not fit their game well. Duke has a couple 5star bigs that IMO could well be out played by meeks and Hicks.
I understand that folks want the best talents they can get but when that 5star leaves after a freshman season, you are never really getting 5 star play from him many times. Towns for example, had a solid NBA rook season but he was not the driving force behind Ky in his one season there. Anthony Davis for example, great frosh season for Ky and was the driving force behind their natty but imagine what he would have done as a soph in college?
Point is the NBA is drafting one & dones more on potential than production but in college we should care more about production than potential. Potential does not win you games in college, production does. Yet we worry about potential this time of the season and forget how good our coaching staff is at getting our players to produce.
Of the top 10 players in last NBA draft, how many of them played in this past final 4 , how many played in the natty game? Same as the number of one & dones we have had since Brandan Wright, ZERO !!! How many 3 & 4 stars played ion this past final 4 and natty game, A LOT!
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South I can see you drop the mic and scream WHOOOOO!!! Just like ol Rick Flair baby.
Some of you complaining about Roy not getting BIGS need to use that "Trial" membership for premi and see the discussion about AAU and Shoe Companies thread. You will understand why we are struggling when Roy won't play those games.
Well then Roy needs to reevaluate how he's approaching things. Times change and if you aren't willing to make some adjustments you will be left in the cold. I'm not asking him to cheat just adjust to today's world of recruiting.
Na. I dont want my HC to get invlolved with handlers and show companies. Im good with the Brice Johnsons of the world if it comes to that.
I agree. But please let me know when we sign even a Brice Johnson caliber big.
Might have one coming in this year..... Not saying Tony will round out to AA first team, but he could be pretty good in a couple of years.
As for 2017 I'd like Roy to hone in on players who'll want to play for UNC and if that means letting the shoe whores go elsewhere then so be it.
I love Brice, but I'll take Tony all day over Brice as a true freshman recruit ready to contribute minutes-I hope he develops and has the upside as Brice did, but as far as a HS recruit, TB all day!
IMO, Where the staff could improve is with social media and just relating to today's kids. We don't have a capel or Kenny Payne on this staff. Our coaches are recruiting like we're still in the 1990's. Maybe they should take some tips from Fedora's staff with how to use social media as a recruiting tool.
Tony Bradley is a top 25 recruit, is he not? Lets get worried when the 2017 recruiting cycle is over and no bigs have signed.
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