Next Year
- Thread starter Tarheels39
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I don’t know who comes back and who doesn’t. They may dig into the NIL bag to keep Bacot from going overseas but we will see. Do want to see RJ back. Wouldn’t mind Love coming back if Hubert can just make him play within the system instead of him trying to seemingly audition for the NBA a lot of the time. The rest, I could care less. Although he is a good athlete, their late season fascination with Dunn is confusing to me. Figure Styles will leave. Great athlete, but just can’t find a place. Trimble? Offensively limited, but a good potential pure point guard. But has to learn that nobody is paying to watch him dribble for 20 seconds of the shot clock which he seems to like to do. As far as recruits, UNC will get some good ones. But one thing they desperately have to have, and the one thing that the great UNC teams always had, was an absolute dead eye three point shooter. A Donald Williams, Wayne Ellington, type. You leave them open and it is three. That is one thing currently missing from this team and needs to be addresses
If I didn't have an unbreakable rule not to like anything said by SDung,I might have given him his first one. Except for the inevitable troll in his last line he is unbelievably correct! This is like my Dad often said, "The sun shines on a dog's ass every now and then!" Caleb is an awesome athlete who I love to see going to the basket now, but his handle is too loose for real running. I love how much RJ and Caleb are putting into improving on D. RJ is almost always in the right spot now but he can't do anything about his size. Caleb has far fewer lapses in concentration and is staying with his man. Nance is rotating much quicker now and for the past few games has developed the ability to protect the rim. Bacot has been a stopper all season. We can defend any team, but will we???
One factor determining whether we lose guys to the portal will be just how much they like playing for Hubert.
We take it as a given that working for Mr. Personality is probably fun most of the time. So if they like working with this staff, I wouldn't expect players like Dunn, Trimble, Styles or Nickel to leave - even if they may not be getting all the PT they want.
But if they aren't having fun or if they are tired of optimism not translating into wins, then some will leave. Perhaps even starters.
We take it as a given that working for Mr. Personality is probably fun most of the time. So if they like working with this staff, I wouldn't expect players like Dunn, Trimble, Styles or Nickel to leave - even if they may not be getting all the PT they want.
But if they aren't having fun or if they are tired of optimism not translating into wins, then some will leave. Perhaps even starters.
No, I never said we should run Tony Bennett's offense. I actually think our pace has been fine. Would I prefer stylistically that we run more? Sure. But for this team's talent, I don't think running 75 possessions would be helpful. We aren't good enough to without a lot of negative consequences.
We've averaging 69 possessions per game.
In conference play plus ACC Tourney:
In games we have 71 or more possessions: 4-3
In games we have 68-70 possessions: 4-2 (our average and median in pace)
In games we have 67 or fewer possessions: 4-4
Our 5 highest pace conference games: 2-3 (72-83 possessions)
Our 5 slowest pace conference games: 2-3 (63-65 possessions, and we won both 63 possession games)
So no indication that we're anymore or less successful really if we play slow or fast. We're pretty bad when we play faster than our average. We're pretty bad when we play slower than our average. We're above average when we play our average tempo. Sounds like what an average team is!
And yes, I think Caleb would be absolutely abysmal in a high tempo system. The problem is, he's the most gifted player on our roster so he probably has to play. The best way to do that is to play slower. I'm not saying we should play at UVA tempo. That's obviously an extreme and I never said we should. What I'm saying is we shouldn't intentionally just play faster. Caleb has never proven he can be good in that system. I know he was a freshman, but he was historically bad as a freshman. And he really showed 0 proof at anytime he could flourish in that kind of system.
Lol, I seem to be hearing this more and more. Hopefully a few of you don't think I'm just a troll, lol.
It’s a joke around my house when we all see him play. Someone is gonna holler SHOOT IT AGAIN RUSS. He’s lost a lot of games by overshooting. Lol. Nba peeps have caught up with his athleticism
You are quoting stats, but the stats you share show what occurred in a time where we DO NOT RUN OUR BREAKS! We run now basically only when we have great ops to run, we don't pitch it ahead, we don't look to push off made baskets, we do rip it down a fly down the court. Yeah, Caleb does not have great handles to drive thru double teams, he is just fine to drive off a break. This is a very athletic team, it lacks skill at some key positions which makes it harder for us to score in the half court and we are lost in free lance. But athletic teams are built to run the ball, to push the pace, to finish with that athletism.
I’m still trying to get used to HD….differentiating his
optimism vs hyperbole vs delusion
There are a lot of opinions on here, but none of ours are what count. As for Caleb, we all get frustrated with him and he has become the whipping boy for most fans. What I will say is that I hope he doesn't read this board. It's pretty sad to say such things about a kid playing a game. What if it were your kid and you read some of the comments on here about them? There is a reason that Roy and Caleb are close and not just because Roy was his coach. Roy saw and still sees the potential in him. Love would do himself a big favor if he focused more on the mid range game and hitting pull up jumpers after faking the 3 point shot. His 3's should only come in the flow of a real offense where he is open. Caleb and RJ were recruited to run an up and down offense with multiple players that can score and usually a deep enough bench to give them proper rest. Hubert put in a whole new system and it worked the second half of last year, because Brady moved into the starting lineup after Garcia left. Folks underestimate the huge difference Manek was for this team. He not only made shots, but he played good defense and he rebounded. You take that away, and add in Leaky whose not a real scorer and you get three people on the floor that can score. Nance hasn't added up to half of what Brady was and that's a huge deal. No wonder Caleb and RJ feel like they have to do it all and they rarely get rest. Hubert should've developed a bench early in the season like Roy would do. This time of year, you need someone coming off the bench that can score and someone to give the bigs a break. Hubert needs to watch some of the teams like Arizona or Uconn and put together a motion offense and for heavens sake, what happened to UNC playing with pace. The slow down game leads to desperation as the shot clock is running down when you're playing good defensive teams. This team had a highly ranked Alabama beat, should've beaten Iowa State, should've beaten Pitt, had Duke down late in the game, and even others. They have talent, they just need to be put in the best situation to succeed. Hubert needs to either hire a defensive coach or have someone come in and teach defense. When he was hired he said he would play multiple defenses like Dean did. I have yet to see that. He also needs to find an athletic rim protector and a shooter in the portal. All in all, I can count at least 4 games that coaching or lack of adjustments resulted in a loss.
There's zero data that supports that Caleb Love would be better in an up-tempo offense apart from the "he's athletic" part, which doesn't automatically translate. Caleb is a terrible finisher at the rim. 43% as a freshman, 49% as a sophomore, 54% this year. 54% is still below average. And 43% came from the up-tempo system. I would think the ability to finish at the rim is a direct indicator of your success at a faster tempo.
I also don't think we're all that athletic. RJ's a pretty average athlete. Leaky looks like a good athlete, but that hasn't helped him at all, even in seasons where he played in Roy's system. I think he's just an offense zero regardless of the system. Bacot's an ok athlete, but isn't nearly as explosive as our past bigs were.
Idk. You and I just view this team differently. I think they suck. I think they would've sucked more if they played more possessions.
This year just came down to Caleb missing a ton of 3's and Nance not being Manek from 3. We were better from 2pt this year vs last year. We had a higher FT rate this year vs last year. We had a lower TO rate this year vs last year. We actually had a slighter lower 3pt rate this year vs last year.
It is difficult to listen to. I like to see when coaches are trying to be realistic and transparent. Some of the stuff HD spews about his team/players/performance is so unrealistic fantasy land stuff that I can’t believe he says it and genuinely hope he doesn’t believe it.
100% This HAS to happen moving forward. I know Leaky was a great defender, but having a guy at the 4 who simply doesn't score or shoot well from the outside has crippled our spacing for years now. We gotta have scorers at the 4!
Last year, in the first 26 games, we were 18-8 and ranked 42nd overall on BartTorvik.
Our tempo was 71.6 possessions/game, 37th fastest in the country during that time.
Last year, in the last 13 games, we were 11-2 and ranked 3rd overall on BartTorvik.
Our tempo was 69.9 possessions/game, 68th fastest in the country during that time.
So last year, we were better when we played slower. Maybe some false equivalency to connect to this season, but there isn't a ton of evidence that this core group played better when it played faster.
The number of possessions is just one metric but imho the issue this group has suffered from this past season would come under the heading of "intangibles" like bball IQ, effort, attitude/enthusiasm and dedication. But if you break it down on an individual basis with the starter minutes this past season it was really obvious. Bacot has improved very little and has few pro prospects so he's spent his time milking the NIL/movie career, Leaky has not improved offensively and he has been dis-served by the coaching staff for not exploiting his handle and athleticism to attack the basket and improve his outside shooting mechanics. Love is a bball black hole that f'd himself by coming back this year .. be glad to see him go. I'll give RJ some credit for effort but at the end of the day he is not a very good pg and undersized to boot and his defense is "meh". No idea why Nance was ported in .. he's not a stretch and it's glaringly obvious.
By the same token the coaching is not without fault because it really sucked with the stale 4 out o/d sets and lack of adjustments and you have to think that the enthusiasm and effort starts with the HC. I can't remember how many times I've seen Roy and even Dean get out there screaming and being animated to encourage the teams and hubcap just kind of walks around most of the time with his arms crossed .. and his pressers are just as bland... body language speaks volumes. IMO the players have taken on the personality of the coach as both seem totally disconnected and indifferent and the season of apathy has finally unceremoniously ended as a bust and incredible disappointment.
I just disagree with your opinion that this team would struggle in a more uptempo system.
It makes no sense to slow the game down to a halfcourt situation when your team shoots so poorly, and can't make/ see post entry's. Kids grow up playing up and down in pickup games, making passes within that framework is a natural act.
This team for it's faults did NOT commit an absorbent amoubt of turnovers.
Our shot selection and corresponding percentage certainly would have been better in the Carolina system.
If you need a data point to dictate every thing you see in a basketball game then you miss most of the game! If you rely on metrics then you see very little value in a player like Leaky yet Leaky was maybe the most effective player we had consistently. You give me data but that data is based on a period of time where they were NOT doing what I am wanting them to do. Just because an opposing team takes shots quickly in the shot clock and does not grab a lot of offensive rebounds does not mean we were running our breaks but it results in a lot of possessions. So your metrics do not point to an argument against this team running the ball, pushing tempo, you give me the ultimate straw man and keep referring back to it?
This team was not good, it was not because of the way they were either allowed or asked to play, either way not good. I went thru most of this season going WTF, I know we are better than this, I know we have more talented players than this, why do we keep watching this. I finally figured out why. The last pod from Andrew and David Sisk (if you are a UNC fan this is a MUST SEE) gave me a couple of things I did not realize. Example, I knew Hubert ran a lot of set plays but Andrew sharing that Hubert calls out set plays after EVERY made basket, that Hubert calls set plays on nearly 90% of our offensive trips? Yep, that was HUGE info right there. And David talking about how this team plays with a back to the basket center as opposed to a center that plays facing, well OK, that explains a ton and we actually got to see that in a couple games of late.
Hate to tell you guys, Caleb Love was actually not the problem, he actually played much better than he is credited for but few guys in his position look great when they are constantly doubled every game. This team has a severe structural set of problems, one is we start 2 and ONLY 2 guys that play at what should be considered their natural position, Love and Bacot, everyone else was playing out of position. RJ is not a PG, Nance is not a 4 and frankly, Leaky does not have a position, not sure if Leak ahs played the 5 at all but he has been put at the other 4 spots. This is just 1 of the problems this team has had to deal with. Hate to say it but that is on Hubert, Hubert had a much worse season than any of our players did. He is making mistakes that most middle school coaches would quickly fix? Hubert needs to put pride aside and ask for help from more seasoned coaches that will be more than happy to help him, he is a man of faith, please put pride aside!
Let me stop you right here, in the last 2 seasons you tell me the game we CONSISTENTLY ran the UNC breaks? UT oh, come on now, you giving me stats but those stats are anchored in quick sand. I have spent more than my fair share of time in a stats classes, give me enough time and numbers and I will prove to you that a Angus Bull could win the next Kentucky Derby! But when I did you should know that it was all angus bull shiat! LOL
I have known all my life, numbers do not lie BUT liars always use numbers? That is cause numbers can always be skewed to make them mean anything you want them to.
We have no idea who will be on the roster next year. With Bacot UNC made the tourney twice and won tourney games only one year, albeit 5 of them.
Hey bro. Hope all is well.
I don’t think Love will come back. I think he transfers. I can see both RJ and Armando back though .
Then I'd say hubcap is one of the few and not the many .. maybe him and Grover but I think Grover jumped of the Love train and board too .. can't say's I blame him.
Because Bacot has spent 3 of his 4 seasons on teams with no outside shooting. We'd have twice as many losses without Bacot carrying these poorly shooting teams.
Take away Bacot's rebounding, high field goal %, and ability to defend strong post players; and all you have is a bunch of bad shooters going 1-and-out on every possession. You'd be lucky to win 8 games.
He was just named 3rd team All American.
I know he’d like to see more outside shots made. He’s literally double and triple teamed, knowing we have weak shooters. Hopefully that’s going to change. We’ll see. Heck, they may all be gone, including him.
Everyone should hope he stays. Because Hubert has been recruiting bigs who prefer to shoot perimeter shots, and who are mediocre rebounders. Even the 1 traditional low post big he's gotten (James Brown) is not a particularly good rebounder.
Once Bacot is gone we're going to get destroyed on the boards, beat up by every physical center we face, and be even more dependent on 3pt shooting than we have been.
I hate to pile on but I think Love leaving might be addition by subtraction. There is zero offensive flow when he is on the court.
Dream would be to have Bacot back, a stone cold shooter, maybe Nickel, get starter minutes, a Cadeau reclass pushing RJ to a secondary ball handler who moves over to play PG when Cadeau gets rest, and a transfer big who can play.
Dream would be to have Bacot back, a stone cold shooter, maybe Nickel, get starter minutes, a Cadeau reclass pushing RJ to a secondary ball handler who moves over to play PG when Cadeau gets rest, and a transfer big who can play.
Next year is going to be bad.. if we couldn't win with the talent we had this year, what makes anyone think we are going to win next year by adding 2 freshman (one which will hardly play)??
We lost our best defender to an already horrible defensive team.
I just don't see how Wilcher replacing Love and High replacing Black will help anything, unless we magically gain 2 studs from the portal or Wilcher is an absolute stud freshman like Brandon Miller is for Alabama.
That's also if we lose nobody else
We lost our best defender to an already horrible defensive team.
I just don't see how Wilcher replacing Love and High replacing Black will help anything, unless we magically gain 2 studs from the portal or Wilcher is an absolute stud freshman like Brandon Miller is for Alabama.
That's also if we lose nobody else
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Where is this talent that people are speaking of?
RJ's a 5'10" shooting guard. Caleb's talent is irrelevant because of his basketball IQ. Leaky is a good defender but he can't play on an offensive unit that doesn't have 4 great shooters around him. If Caleb leaves, then if any of the players replacing Caleb or Leaky's minutes shoots above 35% from 3 (high volume shooters), then it's going to be a huge upgrade on offense and offense was this team's biggest liability.
I said coming into this season (like last March) that this team was going to go as far as Caleb took them. Caleb is what made this team have the potential to be great, but also have the potential to be pretty bad. That's how it turned out this season. Caleb massively regressed and despite RJ having a really good year and Bacot being pretty productive, we never had a chance because Caleb basically reverted back to his freshman year efficiency. He shot less than 30% from 3 this year, lol.
And as a result, Leaky attempted 63 more FGA and 35 more 3PA despite playing 5 fewer games than last year. So a Caleb Love dependent team had a really bad year from Caleb Love. As a result, it needed a little bit more from Leaky... And it turned into a disaster.
What is all this talent people are talking about? I don't get it. This team was full of empty calories.
Too early for this way of thinking. Programs can turn around in a years time, heck 3 ACC teams made hige turnaround just this year.
With building blocks like Bacot and Davis, we would be well ahead of the game.
Attitude and philosophy as much as talent will decide if Carolina will be one of those success stories.
Coaching and Athleticism must improve.
Portal is a vital opportunity to add 1-3 players depending on need.
I think the 2-3-4 spots could all be upgraded with the right portal guys. Love is not the singular problem, but his low basketball awareness makes him one of them. We have so little bench talent on this team though, so I really do think the help needs to come from the portal and Cadeau/Jackson reclassing.
I don't think he regressed as much as people seem to. The drop off in spacing from Manek to Nance killed a lot of his drive attempts, and there was not many guys willing to shoot when we had no offense going. I thought he would take another leap forward and he definitely did not, but I also think this team was a horrible fit for Caleb's skillset. One ball dominant center who struggles to pass, a small shooting guard who's not much of a passer, and two forwards who don't bring much to the table offensively.
Good players fit in anywhere. Although I understand and agree with your point.
I don’t want to shit on Caleb. We’ve done that all season. @SJung851 did indeed call it early - this team’s potential was based almost entirely on Caleb becoming the player he has the talent to be. He did not become that player. I take it things soured about halfway in when he was struggling mightily. And then Hubert didn’t have the experience to bring the team back from the brink of self destruction. And that doesn’t bode well for next year. We will be really bad without Mando and RJ returning. But how much better can we be with them back? They were at least partly to blame for things spiraling out of control. Neither had the leadership chops to take control and elevate their teammates. How will they face adversity next year, because I can guarantee we will see some.
I think with one of RJ/Armando and Cadeau you can assemble enough pieces to have a good team next year. Lots of our competitors did so mostly via transfers. We do need to land multiple quality starters in the portal though, not an easy task; I'm curious to see how things will play out. We should know a lot more in as little as the next couple weeks.
Actually Leaky was more consistent from 3 than most anyone else was we had aside from RJ. Caleb sure as hell threw up a ton of bricks/ air ball prayers, Nance barely looked for his 3 (which he was touted for) and was flat when he shot it, Tremble had no shot, and Puff... well, he may have one of the ugliest shooting strokes I've seen in Carolina blue for someone who is supposed to be a shooter. Dunn seems to have a decent stroke but didn't exactly get a lot of chances.
Agreed. Look at the turn around we had from last year! 😅
Of course you could but you start doing that stupid crap and you're committing recruiting suicide and turning your school in to a glorified G league or worse. C'mon man (hat tip joe bidden) !!
