OFFICIAL UNC VS. Michigan State THREAD

[superstar57]

Our problem hasn't been shooting. We've struggled to get open looks from 3. We've missed tough shots.

I agree other problems this game, but stats from outside had to be horrible. Joel Berry usually steps up and makes some regardless of defense. Michigan State did not score that many points (turnovers).

Somebody has to hit some shots because if not your exposing your Freshman bigs bad. Manely and Brooks understand after this game what bigs in big time programs look like.

I'm good with the game. Kinda wished Felton would have played better I think he can strive in a game like this one. His height and play making skills give him an advantage that we need in games like this.

 

[gauchoheel]

what chance has he had?

Well, first of all I'd say that tells us something in itself that he is not getting more chances. The very top echelon players tend to get more opportunities and excel in them. But shouldn't the burden of proof be on you? I don't know why the assumption would be that he is a top 5 talent, that is a high claim to make of anybody.

Certainly recruiting services didn't think so, none ranked him up there. NBA draft boards don't have him listed. He isn't starting or contributing much so far. I think it's pretty fair to say he's quite talented but not at Top 5 college/NBA level. I do think he'll play in the NBA in the future, and I think he'll start and shine next year. That's just different than saying he should have been a top 5 recruit, or will be a top 5 NBA pick.

 

[Sk1310]

Well, first of all I'd say that tells us something in itself that he is not getting more chances. The very top echelon players tend to get more opportunities and excel in them. But shouldn't the burden of proof be on you? I don't know why the assumption would be that he is a top 5 talent, that is a high claim to make of anybody.

Certainly recruiting services didn't think so, none ranked him up there. NBA draft boards don't have him listed. He isn't starting or contributing much so far. I think it's pretty fair to say he's quite talented but not at Top 5 college/NBA level. I do think he'll play in the NBA in the future, and I think he'll start and shine next year. That's just different than saying he should have been a top 5 recruit, or will be a top 5 NBA pick.

So he starts over Berry?

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Why are we arguing over probably the 8th piece of our puzzle at best right now? (Felton)

He literally is a matador on defense, hardly provides any resistance, doesn’t get to the glass despite his size, and hasn’t shown the ability yet to score against quality college talent.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I agree he should be getting more minutes over Seventh Woods and Platek getting Brandon Robinsons minutes. But he’s not a top 5 talent. Not even close.

 

[gauchoheel]

So he starts over Berry?

No, but that's a strawman anyway. Platek is outplaying him and getting more minutes, and he's also a freshman who I'm sure you'd agree is not at the talent level of a top 5 recruit. You can contribute in a number of ways.

I really am curious though, what evidence do you think points to Felton having top 5 talent?

 

[Ozheelfan]

Well, glad thats over.... stunk it up worse than a portable toilet in the middle of summer.

Upside? Well, how about these points:

• They can't play much worse this season!
• I don't have to buy a 40-0 shirt now
• Freshmen have now learned what a loss feels like.... and not just a loss but a butt whipping of epic proportions
• Theo doesn't look too hurt, though contact or not, that deserved a foul call
• Luke is not the second coming, he can now go back to being Luke

Downside:

• Joel put a massive dent in any draft stock tonight
• Frosh bigs were exposed
• Shea Rush didn't get enough court time

(OK, the last one was a joke, but all you can do is laugh after that)

 

[pln2013]

You argue, just to argue , and it's really annoying. My suggestion is to stop being a pest. On to Felton, he is a 6'4 PG, so that covers your size knock. He has great court vision, and for a PG, he is plenty atheltic. Im sorry, I dont base my analysis off of draft experts, I have eyes and a brain of my own. Jalek Felton can ball with the best of them.

You were the one who disagreed with someone else's assessment. I don't mind arguing. If you don't want to argue, don't start an argument.

He's 6'3", which is good-not-great for a PG. And he's nowhere close to guys like Sexton and Fox athletically. He'd be below average athletically for an NBA PG. His court vision is great - that's why he's a top-25 guy. And his jumper is solid. But it takes more than great court vision and a solid jumper to make you a top-5 talent.

 

[Sk1310]

No, but that's a strawman anyway. Platek is outplaying him and getting more minutes, and he's also a freshman who I'm sure you'd agree is not at the talent level of a top 5 recruit. You can contribute in a number of ways.

I really am curious though, what evidence do you think points to Felton having top 5 talent?

His high school games. I am very high on Felton. maybe I will be wrong.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Felton played shit for high school competition.

 

[gauchoheel]

Why are we arguing over probably the 8th piece of our puzzle at best right now? (Felton)

He literally is a matador on defense, hardly provides any resistance, doesn’t get to the glass despite his size, and hasn’t shown the ability yet to score against quality college talent.

Idk really. It seems to be a sore spot to point out our players aren't always uber-uber top 5 level talented. Like Felton was a 5 star recruit, everyone agrees he's pretty damn talented. But there's a difference between that and the top few freshman every year, those guys should be dominating college ball.

Kevin Knox dropped 25 points today. Sexton had 40 last night. Bagley is averaging over 20 a game. Felton has 14 points for the season in 60 minutes. I don't think it's a huge insult to say Felton is not at their level yet.

 

[gauchoheel]

His high school games. I am very high on Felton. maybe I will be wrong.

I hope you are right. I certainly think he will at least become very good with time.

 

[WhitePhantoms]

You argue, just to argue , and it's really annoying. My suggestion is to stop being a pest. On to Felton, he is a 6'4 PG, so that covers your size knock. He has great court vision, and for a PG, he is plenty atheltic. Im sorry, I dont base my analysis off of draft experts, I have eyes and a brain of my own. Jalek Felton can ball with the best of them.

what chance has he had?

1. I have a feeling this isnt your first season watching UNC Basketball, therefore, you know you EARN your chances.

2. Felton is a top 5 recruit? If you mean a top 5 recruit in UNCs 2017 recruiting class then you might be on to something. Hell he hasnt even been the best freshman. That surprisingly goes to Platek.

 

[Sk1310]

Felton played shit for high school competition.

lmao. I love it.

 

[pln2013]

Felton is at risk of not starting next year at this point. White could come in guns blazing.

I do think Felton is our "most important" player this year, in a sense - meaning the difference between his floor and ceiling would have the biggest impact on our success. He has the ability to hit from outside and create shots for himself and teammates. Probably our only guard who checks all 3 boxes. But to this point he's a no-show who doesn't play defense.

 

[Sk1310]

1. I have a feeling this isnt your first season watching UNC Basketball, therefore, you know you EARN your chances.

2. Felton is a top 5 recruit? If you mean a top 5 recruit in UNCs 2017 recruiting class then you might be on to something. Hell he hasnt even been the best freshman. That surprisingly goes to Platek.

ok

 

[Sk1310]

Felton is at risk of not starting next year at this point. White could come in guns blazing.

I do think Felton is our "most important" player this year, in a sense - meaning the difference between his floor and ceiling would have the biggest impact on our success.

This is a big time over reaction

 

[Sk1310]

Idk really. It seems to be a sore spot to point out our players aren't always uber-uber top 5 level talented. Like Felton was a 5 star recruit, everyone agrees he's pretty damn talented. But there's a difference between that and the top few freshman every year, those guys should be dominating college ball.

Kevin Knox dropped 25 points today. Sexton had 40 last night. Bagley is averaging over 20 a game. Felton has 14 points for the season in 60 minutes. I don't think it's a huge insult to say Felton is not at their level yet.

You do realize Kevin Knox and Colin Sexton werent consensu top 5 recruits, right?

 

[gauchoheel]

You do realize Kevin Knox and Colin Sexton werent consensu top 5 recruits, right?

Sexton is #5 on the 247 composite of the different rankings. You're right that Knox was #11, though I'm not sure how it makes a difference to our discussion. You would have rather had Felton than Bamba, Ayton, or a healthy Porter for our game today?

 

[GoNtheDistance]

2 points and 9 rebounds combined from our three bigs. We won’t win a game with that type of production from those guys. Got to get to 15-20 points and 10-15 rebounds from those three combined.

 

[pln2013]

You do realize Kevin Knox and Colin Sexton werent consensu top 5 recruits, right?

Sexton was. The top-5 was (247 composite):

Bagley --- 21.1 and 10.7
Porter --- out for the year
Bamba --- 10.8 and 10.0, plus 3.8 blocks (plus insane physical tools)
Ayton --- 20.3 and 12.0
Sexton --- 25.2 and 4.4 assists

If Jalek is really that type of player, then Roy deserves his reputation for holding top players back.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Also can’t have Felton and woods play nearly 20 minutes combined and give us 0 points and 3 assists.

 

[Sk1310]

Sexton is #5 on the 247 composite of the different rankings. You're right that Knox was #11, though I'm not sure how it makes a difference to our discussion. You would have rather had Felton than Bamba, Ayton, or a healthy Porter for our game today?

hahahaha. Those were YOUR examples, don't back track, then ask me what I want. I think Felton can ball, you don't. I think Berry actually took a year to learn the complexity of being a Carolina PG. Felton is doing the same thing, top 5 or not, that's a basic expectation for Carolina PG's.

 

[pln2013]

Sexton was. The top-5 was (247 composite):

Bagley --- 21.1 and 10.7
Porter --- out for the year
Bamba --- 10.8 and 10.0, plus 3.8 blocks (plus insane physical tools)
Ayton --- 20.3 and 12.0
Sexton --- 25.2 and 4.4 assists

If Jalek is really that type of player, then Roy deserves his reputation for holding top players back.

The next 10, just to round out the picture:

Duval --- 13.4 and 6.6 assists, plus 2.8 steals
Carter --- 13.7 and 9.4
Jackson --- 11.4 and 8.8
Robinson --- idiot
Diallo --- 11.8
Knox --- 14.7
Vanderbilt --- injured
Brown --- 11.5 and 7.0
McCoy --- 20.2 and 13.0
Washington --- 7.8 and 5.7

So I have to go down to #15 to find an active player not averaging double figures.

 

[Sk1310]

Sexton was. The top-5 was (247 composite):

Bagley --- 21.1 and 10.7
Porter --- out for the year
Bamba --- 10.8 and 10.0, plus 3.8 blocks (plus insane physical tools)
Ayton --- 20.3 and 12.0
Sexton --- 25.2 and 4.4 assists

If Jalek is really that type of player, then Roy deserves his reputation for holding top players back.

How many minutes do they play, compared to Jalek? this isn't hard folks

 

[Sk1310]

The next 10, just to round out the picture:

Duval --- 13.4 and 6.6 assists, plus 2.8 steals
Carter --- 13.7 and 9.4
Jackson --- 11.4 and 8.8
Robinson --- idiot
Diallo --- 11.8
Knox --- 14.7
Vanderbilt --- injured
Brown --- 11.5 and 7.0
McCoy --- 20.2 and 13.0
Washington --- 7.8 and 5.7

So I have to go down to #15 to find an active player not averaging double figures.

Man, I wish I had time to waste

 

[gauchoheel]

Also can’t have Felton and woods play nearly 20 minutes combined and give us 0 points and 3 assists.

I mean, everyone was bad. No reason to single out the bigs or the young point guards. Maye, Berry, and Kenny combined to shoot 6-31. The missed 9 free throws (out of 19), 5+ layups, and at least that many open three's.

Maybe Theo played okay, but otherwise it was just a stinker all around. I'm sure we'll learn from this though.

 

[pln2013]

I think Felton can ball, you don't.

Literally nobody said that

 

[gauchoheel]

How many minutes do they play, compared to Jalek? this isn't hard folks

If you can't see that these guys are better than Jalek right now, then this discussion is not worth having.

 

[pln2013]

How many minutes do they play, compared to Jalek? this isn't hard folks

Felton has 19 points and 8 assists in 81 minutes of play.

And those players play heavy minutes for a reason. Felton sits for a reason. Roy doesn't think he's the best option to help us win. Players with top-5 talent in almost all cases are worth playing more than 9 minutes in a big game.

Nobody is saying Felton isn't very talented. He's just not top-5 talented.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

Gaucho. My point is that In order for us to be a really good team, we need a certain level of consistent play from our 2nd tier guys to absorb nights like tonight when our starters aren’t playing well. We haven’t gotten much from Felton and Woods so far this year, although the freshman bigs have been solid until tonight when they looked severely overmatched.

 

[Sk1310]

Alright kids, I am out. No need to argue about one of our own. My eyes tell me Felton is top level talent, and I think we will see it soon. Have a good night fellas.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

VSP has good vision insurance. Kidding.

Talent and actual game production are 2 different things. The guys who are producing in games are playing right now. If Felton wants to get more minutes he needs to be productive, on BOTH ends.

 

[Sk1310]

VSP has good vision insurance. Kidding.

Talent and actual game production are 2 different things. The guys who are producing in games are playing right now. If Felton wants to get more minutes he needs to be productive, on BOTH ends.

lmao, nice.

I think we will see Felton get it soon. Have a good night.

 

[pln2013]

lmao, nice.

I think we will see Felton get it soon. Have a good night.

Certainly hope so. Felton at his best would make us a different team.

 

[gauchoheel]

Certainly hope so. Felton at his best would make us a different team.

Even getting Johnson I think will help make us more versatile.

 

[Heelswin]

This is fugly we look legit terrified out there

FUG!!!

 

[superstar57]

Gaucho. My point is that In order for us to be a really good team, we need a certain level of consistent play from our 2nd tier guys to absorb nights like tonight when our starters aren’t playing well. We haven’t gotten much from Felton and Woods so far this year, although the freshman bigs have been solid until tonight when they looked severely overmatched.

In order to have a special season we most definitely will need these guys to even out the load. Not saying everyone wasn't bad, because they were.

I hope Woods never pauses on a fast break and passes it to who knows where again. Time for that young heel to step his game up.

Felton was just an observation that in the future we need him to be a spark off the bench. I am rooting for Woods just no more expectations from me on him.

Luke is fundamentally great, but against athletic bigs, and his three ain't falling it's going to be difficult.

Pinson is another guy that can't hide anymore. He has got to hit wide open jumper at least a couple. Not expecting a high percentage.

Good thing is a lot of schools we play don't have the talented bigs they had, so overall we should be okay