PJ Dozier Gone
- Thread starter Steat
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I think GM's are going to like him when they see more, he has an NBA body.
Kids are giving up college hoops for second round spots now. There will be 30-40 kids that will go undrafted because there are only 2 rounds in the draft.
Bottom line, many don't care. It seems many of these kids are just rejecting college rather than accepting NBA. Many don't care if they have to play in the D League or overseas. They just don't care folks.
Bottom line, many don't care. It seems many of these kids are just rejecting college rather than accepting NBA. Many don't care if they have to play in the D League or overseas. They just don't care folks.
I understand the concern but this really doesn't bother me, especially in the case of a kid who may not improve their position dramatically. Obviously "potential" is a bigger positive than "development" when it comes to the draft. The reality for many of these guys is that their basketball ability is far and away their most marketable skillset and has a limited window unlike anything most of us will ever experience.
I fail to see what problem you're trying to point out here. Having the opportunity to make 6+ figures overseas and feed their families for years to come beats multiple years in College any day.
A professional career in basketball is not a guarantee. An education is something that can't be taken away.
That's true too. But how many will. It took Marvin Williams 10 yrs. Most kids these days wouldn't even try IMO
this is an astute observation. the trend in recent years is far more girls than boys enrolling in and/or graduating from college. there is a strong anti-intellectual, anti-education bias in our culture and the idea that what you learn in college has any value other than making a buck has been lost somewhere along the way (among boys anyway).
So very true. Most of these guys just want to play basketball so I agree they are rejecting college and its structured lifestyle. Playing overseas for an income is not the way toward retirement however as you are just one cut away from blowing a knee and having nothing. Even if you play for years for the most part the money is not as much as you would hope for. Yes, some folks prosper and good for them but many more flame out with little to lean on. A college education is always available down the road but your chances for success deminish IMO the longer you wait. Still best to stay in school for 2-3 years unless you are a top pick with lots of money which gives you so many more options. The injury excuse is widely overused as most all players who stay in school can play down the road elseware. It is a rare case where a player is hurt in college that precludes him from making money in basketball if they are good enough. Problem is, these guys all think they are good enough so there are so many more thinking they will play in the NBA and get drafted than actually are. Time to change the rules to force those going to college to stay for 2 years and then move on if you wish. Those good enough now can play overseas and get drafted as they wish.
As it's already been pointed out, they can come back whenever they want. The timeframe doesn't and shouldn't matter to anyone. All that matters is if they finish. And that's assuming they even want too. If they make enough money and invest it wisely, they may not even need to attend depending on how good they are and how much they make over their career.
I don't know how others feel, but a College Education is essentially a credential behind your name to help you find a career path in today's society. If these kids do right with the money they earn, they'd be better off than the majority of the people on this board discussing this.
It's not a guarantee, but if the opportunity is there, not considering it would be crazy.
Also, nba are signing more 2nd round picks then ever before. So kids are becoming OK with that with the new salary cap. Some contracts are still 7 figure deals.
Perfect example K.J. McDaniels, the No. 32 in the 2014 draft, famously accepted the required tender rather than sign long-term with the 76ers. He then signed a three-year, $6,523,127.
You think he cares he was draft in the 2nd round? I know a lot of guys no longer watch the NBA, but the rules have changed on and off the court from the 90s.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21...-get-paid-more-than-first-rounders-this-year/
You think he cares he was draft in the 2nd round? I know a lot of guys no longer watch the NBA, but the rules have changed on and off the court from the 90s.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21...-get-paid-more-than-first-rounders-this-year/
Bolded is something a lot of people need to keep in mind regarding the Overseas/D-League vs College talk. Can count on multiple hands the amount of times I've seen people proclaim their dislike of the NBA or how they "haven't watched NBA since Jordan". Times have changed since '98, folks. These comments seem like Sour Grapes because the college game is taking the brunt of the impact.
Going into debt for the next 20+ years for an education that may not have any impact on your future may be a reason why.
My wife regrets this everyday
Yep. My mother just finished paying off her debt a few years ago, and she's 54. She's worked in the Public Health sector for the last 10+ years. Meanwhile her degree was in "Communication Studies" at UNC.
The cost of college versus the value is going the wrong way fast, and at a time when the cost should be decreasing based on the availability of online substitutes. The feds' takeover of college loans has produced a harmful distorted market and a bubble that needs to pop.
Not saying this is a problem at all. I'm more critical of the fans. It's just that many fans want to criticize these kids if they are leaving and are not projected in the first round. Many of these kids don't care about getting a college degree and that's perfectly okay with me. I don't agree with what many of these kids are doing, but it's their choice. It is sad to look back at some of of the players that didn't make it in the NBA that are now broke and working as janitors or some other low paying job.
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You are correct. The dollar figure is approximately 2 million.
Here is example of a player (20-yr old) playing in Europe for 15-years ($600,000 salary) and retiring at age 35. If he invest 2 million in a Life Time Income Annuity and does not "touch it" for 10 years, he would be looking at approximatly $200,000 a year for life at age 35.
Here are the figures:
$600,000 annual salary
$100,000 ( minus taxes)
$ 100,000( minus living expenses)
_____________________________
Net $400,000
Bank $400,000 per year for 5 years. After 5 years (age 25), invest the 2M in an annuity. At age 35 start collecting $200,000 for life!
Now, ask yourself this question: Would most of these kids leaving early have at least a decent chance of playing overseas and making some decent money?
The player does not need a college degree if saves his money and invest it wisely. But, the sad thing is that many do not save their money or invest it wisely. But, it can be done!
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as far as income potential goes does anyone know whether 1 year in school or 2-3 years in school makes a difference in the real world?
People may learn stuff in the extra year or two that they wouldn't have learned in just 1 year, but other than that there's no difference.
You either have the degree or you don't. If you don't, no one is going to care that you took 5 semesters of classes instead of 3. It all amounts to the same thing - a failure to complete something you started.
But in the cases of these kids that will play basketball professionally - who cares? The money they'll make playing basketball far exceeds whatever value their B.S. in Communications would have gotten them. And if they don't have the long career they expected, they can always go back to finish the degree later if they think they need to (although by that point, their resume of having played professionally will probably open up more doors for them in the field they want to work in than a college degree).
Bolded is so true. They often end up spending it on so much frivolous stuff too early. But you're right that it can be done.
Its why hearing the whole "stay in school" spiel regarding these kids is getting a bit old, IMHO. A college education can be valuable, but you have to go where the money is. Those opportunities won't always be there. College will.
I agree with a lot of the comments in this thread and that makes me kind of sad. We're breaking down reasons to avoid getting a college degree. Think about that. Long gone are the days when one was admired for going to college. Hell, the NBA and basketball pundits penalize kids for staying in school; as if juggling the rigors of improving yourself intellectually and socially while playing basketball for 4 years is worth nothing. I'll be the first to admit that for much of college, I went through the motions. I had the mindset of a former Tar Heel in that I was just "doing my time". With that said, I learned far more than I had first thought I would or even realized I had until years later. Much of the college experience is about far more than the academic work. It's about growing into an overall, more well-rounded person. And many athletes don't ever do that. And it shows with the way many of them handle their money. It shows in their relationships. It shows in many aspects of their lives. It's no surprise though. Sports leagues don't value having well rounded individuals on their rosters if the illiterate, socially awkward criminal at the other end of the bench can out perform him. So from that perspective, you can't blame that illiterate, socially awkward criminal from skipping out on an opportunity to better himself.
But with respect to some of the numbers we're discussing here, let's use Steat's $600k example. That seemed a little too simple for me. IMO, that $600k isn't really going as far as some of y'all think it is. These dudes have agents that are going to get theirs. They have other hidden costs that we don't know about - they don't even know about them until it's too late. And many of these guys come from homes where when you got your hands on some money, you spent it before a bill collector showed up at the door. And being that they might have left school before learning something as simple as budgeting, I bet many guys that play overseas end up living paycheck to paycheck. That's ok. My family lives paycheck to paycheck. But there are basketball leagues around the world and they're not all offering the glamourous life. But it's not all bad news. Throughout the last 30-40 years as sports have really grown, smarter athletes have realized that even if they don't make it as a player, there are many opportunities for a life close to the game where they can leverage their experience. It's saved a ton of these guys who have flamed out and most likely were ill prepared for a life in any other well paying industry.
Oh yeah, I like PJ Dozier's game.
But with respect to some of the numbers we're discussing here, let's use Steat's $600k example. That seemed a little too simple for me. IMO, that $600k isn't really going as far as some of y'all think it is. These dudes have agents that are going to get theirs. They have other hidden costs that we don't know about - they don't even know about them until it's too late. And many of these guys come from homes where when you got your hands on some money, you spent it before a bill collector showed up at the door. And being that they might have left school before learning something as simple as budgeting, I bet many guys that play overseas end up living paycheck to paycheck. That's ok. My family lives paycheck to paycheck. But there are basketball leagues around the world and they're not all offering the glamourous life. But it's not all bad news. Throughout the last 30-40 years as sports have really grown, smarter athletes have realized that even if they don't make it as a player, there are many opportunities for a life close to the game where they can leverage their experience. It's saved a ton of these guys who have flamed out and most likely were ill prepared for a life in any other well paying industry.
Oh yeah, I like PJ Dozier's game.
Gun, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. On the other hand, some players can make more than $600,000 a year overseas and many can have a nice living making considerably less than $200,000 a year. I agree that some of these players have so many people pulling on them that they are left with little money. In addition, many lack the disciphine to manage their money. If Justin Jackson would had a freshman year like he had this year, I think he would have been OAD. Now, Justin is a kid that any parent would be proud of, but from a fan standpoint many would not have been happy with him being OAD. Just as some kids have a goal to be a doctor or lawyer, some only want to be NBA players and will not take no for answer until they have tried and failed. It's sad.
My 4 years in college were the best 4 years of my life.
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where in europe are you going to only pay 100k in taxes, other than switzerland? and don't forget that you are the property of uncle sam and he's going to want his fair share as well.
600k annual salary - 300k+ in taxes.
Even if they stay 4 years, I wonder how much their degree or major even benefits these guys. Most of our players major in African American studies. Perhaps they just attain a strong knowledge base.
Most of these guys end up selling insurance after they're playing days anyway, right?
How much of Magic Johnson's business empire is a product of his Michigan State education? Or Jordan's at UNC?
Most of these guys end up selling insurance after they're playing days anyway, right?
How much of Magic Johnson's business empire is a product of his Michigan State education? Or Jordan's at UNC?
Magic and MJ were all time greats so it's apples to oranges comparing them to a second round pick. Ever increasing money and the ever increasing desire for instant gratification mean more guys will gamble and hope to be drafted. Many won't be drafted but it's certainly their right to take that gamble.
I don't watch much pro sports. If I see a highlight or hear talk of a former UNC players who is doing well, I'm glad and it makes me smile. But that's about the extent of my following their pro careers.
I'd like to see the NBDL pay their players a decent salary and entice the very elite players, those going to college only because they feel they have to, to go directly to the NBDL out of high school.
I don't watch much pro sports. If I see a highlight or hear talk of a former UNC players who is doing well, I'm glad and it makes me smile. But that's about the extent of my following their pro careers.
I'd like to see the NBDL pay their players a decent salary and entice the very elite players, those going to college only because they feel they have to, to go directly to the NBDL out of high school.
1st NOT ONE OF OUR PLAYERS MAJORS IN AFAM STUDIES!
Magic has a doctorate in Business!
Both Magic and MJ gained something really important in college: connections, exposure, and both took business courses that they used to create and maintain billion dollar brands. (in addition to their bball fame) College is about getting a credential, but that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to total impact of the college experience on a young person's life. Graduating in debt is the result of CHOICES and does not have to happen. There are work study, grants, scholarships, internships, part time jobs, and many other options that mean you can graduate with minimal or no debt. I did it twice (undergrad and grad)!
I celebrate the fact that the youngsters have the right to choose what is best for them, but college should always remain a viable choice!
Magic has a doctorate in Business!
Both Magic and MJ gained something really important in college: connections, exposure, and both took business courses that they used to create and maintain billion dollar brands. (in addition to their bball fame) College is about getting a credential, but that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to total impact of the college experience on a young person's life. Graduating in debt is the result of CHOICES and does not have to happen. There are work study, grants, scholarships, internships, part time jobs, and many other options that mean you can graduate with minimal or no debt. I did it twice (undergrad and grad)!
I celebrate the fact that the youngsters have the right to choose what is best for them, but college should always remain a viable choice!
i appreciate this thread exploring the trend of kids (mostly boys) blowing off college. some valid reasons have been pointed out, but it still saddens me to see higher education so denigrated, whatever the causes. i received my appreciation of higher education from my father (who by the way attended grad school at carolina) and coach dean smith. at his summer basketball camp (called carolina basketball school) coach smith was present every day and he always took some time in his clinics to extol the value of education. nowadays, it's very common to hear people expressing regret that they wasted their time and money going to college. you also hear people who didn't go to college saying they're very glad they didn't. i can certainly understand those sentiments. in fact, i spent last weekend celebrating Easter with cousins who chose to forego college and became fabulously wealthy (which i most certainly am not). oh well, one of the things i learned in my education at unc is that any comparison between one's life and the road not taken is highly speculative.
There are mu
Guys who make 600k spend much more than 100k for living expenses.
200k a year doesn't go very far in 2017 and likely less in 15 years.
So he is going to pay less than 20% in taxes?
There are much better ways for a young guy to invest his money.
Guys who make 600k spend much more than 100k for living expenses.
200k a year doesn't go very far in 2017 and likely less in 15 years.
So he is going to pay less than 20% in taxes?
I vaguely remember when there used to be many more rounds. When did that stop? Should there be another round? Should the guaranteed money (even if only small amounts) reach deeper into the draft?
More rounds and especially more guaranteed money would probably encourage more kids to leave early. Or would it?
I've always been underwhelmed by Dozier. Not bad, obviously. But somehow not quite all "there" if you know what I mean. For example, he would sometimes do something really impressive, but usually he seemed to be coasting, and you couldn't count on him to step up when needed.
Maybe some team will figure they can train him to perform at a higher level most of the time. But if not, I don't see him being drafted too high. Not enough motor or BB IQ.
To be fair, I haven't seen him play all that often. So I could be way off.
Maybe some team will figure they can train him to perform at a higher level most of the time. But if not, I don't see him being drafted too high. Not enough motor or BB IQ.
To be fair, I haven't seen him play all that often. So I could be way off.
Your assessment is about right. Also he seems like he can't create his shot at will because of his skill level.
A lot of people don't need college for their job. That's why you see so many people with a degree that has nothing to do with what they are doing now. Society needs to be honest and admit that the truth is not everyone is cut out for college and shouldn't go to college. Technical schools and associate degrees need to be pushed more than they are.
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