Walton made a telling comment about that sorta thing years ago. Something like "there are good reasons All Americans ride the bench at UCLA and don't transfer or complain. You fill in the gaps".
PJ Washington to announce Thursday at 6pm
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But it's not irrelevant. The fact that Kentucky has effectively recruited top 10 talent and even produced a few stars in the NBA as a result weighs heavily in the minds of these kids when they choose a school. I'm not saying that some of the kids weren't already ready to head to the pros. But it's a snowball effect. You produce one star and others notice. Soon it catches on with everyone. Plus we all know how good of a salesman calipari is.
Yup, a self fulfilling prophecy.
So, up against that Roy can either choose:
a) To play dirty (like some programs likely do),
b) Play dirty within the rules (Like LSU giving Simmons' godfather a job),
c) Keep doing what he's doing: win more games, go to more final fours and rebuild 'the brand' with the players willing to play for him (a few of those being likely first round picks in the coming years)
I'm guessing Roy has chosen option c. It may take a little longer to bear fruit, but he probably sleeps better at night
It would seem that way. But I would also pose a question.
We know that Calipari has done some shady shit in the past. But how do we know with certainty that UK and other programs are playing dirty while we are not? Sounds like an excuse for why we're not landing the top talent we're used to. What is dirty? Paying players? That's certainly egregious, but is there any concrete evidence to support it?
All I'm saying is that there are a multitude of factors as to why our recruiting has not been quite up to snuff lately. I don't think saying "other teams are playing dirty while we're not" is a valid one. Brand is huge, image due to the scandal is another, and perception about the way we develop NBA talent is also enormous. If PJ chooses UK over us, which is all but guaranteed, I hypothesize it will be due to Cal's track record of getting kids to the league and NBA hype.
Hype. I think you nailed it. If you want to talk about what choosing uk will actually do for a player, I maintain the answer is very little. If you're asking what the perceived benefit is of choosing uk, it's that you're fast-tracked to the NBA.
Unfortunately the only way to battle the hype is to patiently prove that your process works...
That you show the ability to teach and improve players.
That you produce AA.
That you make deep tourney runs.
That you ultimately put kids in the league.
That you create an environment for kids to come back to later in life.
The only other way is involve yourself with handlers, recruit over kids, push them out the door, and run out a different glorified AAU team every year in hopes that they learn to play together by March.
It's not like we couldn't do that. We're huge. We're Carolina. We have the resources to pull off a brand switch like that and start grabbing the OAD mindset recruits. Why don't we? Because we don't want to. Simple as that. We literally hold ourselves to an old school higher standard. Our Momma's didn't raise us like that. And neither did Dean. I'm glad that's not changing under Roy's watch and I hope it never does. You just have to be patient and hope that enough kids get that. Our continued success makes me have full confidence that they will. PJ Washington just happens not to be one of those kids. We've gotta be OK with that if we still want to be Carolina.
Unfortunately the only way to battle the hype is to patiently prove that your process works...
That you show the ability to teach and improve players.
That you produce AA.
That you make deep tourney runs.
That you ultimately put kids in the league.
That you create an environment for kids to come back to later in life.
The only other way is involve yourself with handlers, recruit over kids, push them out the door, and run out a different glorified AAU team every year in hopes that they learn to play together by March.
It's not like we couldn't do that. We're huge. We're Carolina. We have the resources to pull off a brand switch like that and start grabbing the OAD mindset recruits. Why don't we? Because we don't want to. Simple as that. We literally hold ourselves to an old school higher standard. Our Momma's didn't raise us like that. And neither did Dean. I'm glad that's not changing under Roy's watch and I hope it never does. You just have to be patient and hope that enough kids get that. Our continued success makes me have full confidence that they will. PJ Washington just happens not to be one of those kids. We've gotta be OK with that if we still want to be Carolina.
100%
It's not about saying other schools are dirty and UNC isn't. It's about quick fix vs long term fix.
And to make a quick fix there'd be compromises that Roy, the school and most fans don't want (at least that seems the case)
What compromises? I don't get it. I don't think we're compromising anything by adapting a bit.
@Ned Cota, this is a topic you and I constantly disagree on, but if we have the resources to pull a brand switch, pull that ****in lever like there's no tomorrow. It's a different world we're living in now with recruiting. You either keep up or get left behind. And for the record I was completely content with what Roy was doing before, I still enjoy that system. But Roy has been on record saying it's difficult to recruit that way now.
Why not make adjustments? Why not try and fix our image and rebuild our brand? I for one do not want to become an afterthought in college basketball.
What compromises? Are you feigning naivety?
Considering the massive hits to the team over the last 5 years it's pretty obvious Roy has to keep clean, squeaky clean, to the point of being over-cautious clean... That likely rules out a bunch of recruits straight away.
That leaves with compromising the system, playing style and team culture in order to satisfy the demands of current OAD players.
It seems Roy is not prepared to do that and I, as a fan, am glad for it.
And yes, I'd love for Roy to land some top 10 talents and I think he will, just not likely for '17.
Considering the massive hits to the team over the last 5 years it's pretty obvious Roy has to keep clean, squeaky clean, to the point of being over-cautious clean... That likely rules out a bunch of recruits straight away.
That leaves with compromising the system, playing style and team culture in order to satisfy the demands of current OAD players.
It seems Roy is not prepared to do that and I, as a fan, am glad for it.
And yes, I'd love for Roy to land some top 10 talents and I think he will, just not likely for '17.
Some of our fan base haven't studied the numbers on OAD's. The numbers do not support the argument of OAD over team building as we do at UNC. Sure we'll take OAD's that "fit" at UNC and in our system and do not disrupt team chemistry.
I hope PJ understands how UNC and staff can help him improve and achieve his goals.
I hope PJ understands how UNC and staff can help him improve and achieve his goals.
You don't pull that lever because you don't sell your soul to become contemporary.
Sorry but you guys are being complete homers if you think UK's track record in the NBA draft is not something that is a real advantage when recruiting. I don't see how you can even argue that it's not.
I agree 100% with you. Cal sells the NBA draft better than anybody. But I feel it's a little bit of smoke & mirrors.
He's had many many 1st round picks but for every Wall,Cousins, Towns & Davis.... there's also kids highly ranked in HS that have struggled playing for him. Harrison Twins, Teague, Goodwin, Young,
I believe a lot of those kids wanted to stay more than one year but was pushed out at UK. When you have 13 kids on scholarship & only 1 or 2 seniors but he signs 7 or 8 kids then kids are being forced to leave if they're ready or not.
It takes a lot less than smoke and mirrors to fool HS kids. You know like shiny things.
Fantastic post Ned, you said it exactly as I see it. Maybe it is a concept lost in today's world if it is then it is really heart breaking. You see the post from the Ky fan that easy admits he knows kal cheats, he doesn't care because to him it is all about winning, how does not matter. That is not what Dean taught us and it darn sure is not how I was raised, you win clean or it is a hollow victory. But how you win does not seem to matter as much now days, all that matters is the end result. Sad to say...
Why are you so cranky lately?
Gary said there is not one reason why PJ should chose UK. I provided that reason and people said it was not true.
Stealing one from my boy Shun: SMILE NED! It's a GDTBATH and have a good one!
@dadika13 is dead on. Ky has sold their program as an nba pipeline and they are reaping huge benefits. I think theres like 27 hillbillies in the nba and around 15 heels. Thats nearly twice. And freaking dook is rising up. Thats huge to a kid wanting to play in the league. I think its whats costing us pj. How many heels are starting in the nba? Two? Theres barnes and williams. I dont know if zeller starts. Maybe lawson? None are all stars and barnes screwed the pooch big time in the championship game while a dookie dominated.
Exactly, it's one of the biggest advantages they have, if not the biggest. How some of our fans jump to the conclusions they do is beyond me. The Top 10 players these days consider themselves OAD for the most part. And they see dook and UK as the quickest way to get to the NBA ASAP. And while we're going to land the occasional OAD, it isn't going to be very often.
Most of us appear to be okay with that, some obviously aren't. One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
Key word from Gary there is "should". He didn't say there isn't one reason why PJ "will" pick uk. He "will" pick uk because he perceives uk to be better at sending OADs to the league. He "should" pick UNC because we are better at developing players and have more playing time for PJ, and he's going to be OAD wherever he goes, uk or elsewhere.
If you don't get or disagree with the idea that uk's image as a OAD factory is nothing more than that, image, then I don't know what else to say. Great prospects go there. Great prospects leave there 200 days later. There is nothing about uk that produces OADs.
And I'm cranky because I get tired of explaining what makes Carolina the best, and why we won't ever roll in shit with uk and puke. Especially when all we should be doing is talking about Jalek Felton, Andrew Platek, Brandon Huffman, Sterling Manley, and hopefully Garrison Brooks. I mean we are patient enough with Brooks to convince him to come to Carolina and all some of y'all want to do is whine that we don't slick our hair back, wear shiny suits, and surround ourselves with bagmen for 17 year olds. If you wanna be that so badly, go root for some other bullshit program like cal and rat run.
If a kid's #1 priority is getting to the NBA, he should go to UK. Since 2010, no one has done a better job at doing that and to ignore that is foolish.
Asking a kid to ignore all trends and stats with such an important decision is just being a homer.
We have a ton to offer any 5* prospect that has priorities like immediate playing time, family atmosphere, and talent development. If a prospect's priority is how fast can I get a paycheck, then we do not have as much to offer as UK.
Asking a kid to ignore all trends and stats with such an important decision is just being a homer.
We have a ton to offer any 5* prospect that has priorities like immediate playing time, family atmosphere, and talent development. If a prospect's priority is how fast can I get a paycheck, then we do not have as much to offer as UK.
But i think whats being asked is why? Why cant PJ go to the NBA after 1 year at UNC? Does Roy not play inside out? if its 5 OADs I agree, but you would think an elite big man would look and UNC minutes next year and the way Roy feeds his bigs and drool.
He can, but the track record is not there of other kids doing so when compared to UK.
It's like...can Dwight Howard hit a free throw? Yeah, about 50% of the time. Can Steph Curry? Yes, 90% of the time. Your future is on the line, who do you want shooting that free throw?
If you're going on past statistics, a kid has to feel much more confident being OAD at UK than at UNC.
So they make the league, how many stay or play at that level.
Ty Zeller just locked up a huge contract.
The numbers show that quite a few 1st rounders do not pan out. Same with the newer version, OAD's, there are quite a few of them that are in the league and certainly a number that did not do as well. I would be willing to bet the numbers on how many do not make it from a factory like UK is almost as high or higher than those that do make it.
And I may be very wrong...
Ty Zeller just locked up a huge contract.
The numbers show that quite a few 1st rounders do not pan out. Same with the newer version, OAD's, there are quite a few of them that are in the league and certainly a number that did not do as well. I would be willing to bet the numbers on how many do not make it from a factory like UK is almost as high or higher than those that do make it.
And I may be very wrong...
There is a correlation between uk and OADs. My point is that the correlation is of a coincidental nature. It is not a causal relationship.
I hear what your saying. im more so venting that these kids should realize they make the league after 1 year at UNC. lol
I won't argue that, but I will argue kids don't think that way. Especially when it's a decision as important as this.
Ya know, everyone is saying the same thing here.
We all recognise the advantage UK has in recruiting in relation to NBA production.
Most believe it is perception - not the actual numbers, they're real, but the perception of preparedness.
Some here would like Roy to change the playing style, culture of the program etc to attract a few OAD's, turn around the perception and get back o track. Some of us don't but not all of us don't.
It's an Internet debate.... You go round and round in circles saying the same stuff but 99.99% of the time you won't change your view and you'll change the other guys view less than that.
We all recognise the advantage UK has in recruiting in relation to NBA production.
Most believe it is perception - not the actual numbers, they're real, but the perception of preparedness.
Some here would like Roy to change the playing style, culture of the program etc to attract a few OAD's, turn around the perception and get back o track. Some of us don't but not all of us don't.
It's an Internet debate.... You go round and round in circles saying the same stuff but 99.99% of the time you won't change your view and you'll change the other guys view less than that.
That is a circular argument, it is like saying I have a 800 credit score and Bank of America gives me a home loan and concluding that Bank of America is the only place anyone with a 800 score can get a home loan.
No, that's not an accurate analogy. More accurately...
If you have an 800 credit score, you have a 90% chance of getting a home loan at BoA. If you have an 800 credit score, you have a 50% chance of getting a home loan at Wells Fargo. Where ya gonna go?
I would love to see PJ come to UNC. That Roy has pursued him so hard is enough evidence for me of PJs value as a player and a person.
That said, to steal from Dean Smith - we will win with him, or without him.
That said, to steal from Dean Smith - we will win with him, or without him.
No surprise, we've known this for weeks. Oh well, focus on Vandy and Knox.
I thought Mr. Vanderbilt was an option, but either way UNC moves on!
The uncertainty involved with trying to sway the minds of youngsters who have been told how special they are since 6th grade makes for some really shaky ground. You have to continuously re-recruit even those who have given their verbals right up to the moment they actually enroll! This is why I'm glad Roy banked some good players that fit our needs and THEN left the door open to the superstars!
I feel confident we will get some good news this Spring! (might be recruiting, might be the FF!)
The uncertainty involved with trying to sway the minds of youngsters who have been told how special they are since 6th grade makes for some really shaky ground. You have to continuously re-recruit even those who have given their verbals right up to the moment they actually enroll! This is why I'm glad Roy banked some good players that fit our needs and THEN left the door open to the superstars!
I feel confident we will get some good news this Spring! (might be recruiting, might be the FF!)
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