Prayers for All Affected @ Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School

[Raising Heel]

I can't do that since I don't know the mental makeup of every single person who has shot someone. If you feel ok with making the assumption that you do know their makeup, then that's ok. I understand why people want to always blame mental illness. It's hard to face the fact that some people in this world are just evil and by saying they have an illness it gives us false hope that we can stop this from happening if we can just get them some help.

In no way have I ever suggested that we can stop this from happening. Not everyone with mental health issues can be helped.

I fail to see a distinction between people who are "just evil" and those who are mentally ill enough to slaughter innocents, other than semantics.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I can't do that since I don't know the mental makeup of every single person who has shot someone. If you feel ok with making the assumption that you do know their makeup, then that's ok. I understand why people want to always blame mental illness. It's hard to face the fact that some people in this world are just evil and by saying they have an illness it gives us false hope that we can stop this from happening if we can just get them some help.

If it's not mental illness, what is it?

 

[nctransplant]

If we ban these guns are we going to ban all the video games kids play that all they do is blow people away? I truly believe the mental midgets we are raising today are affected by these games.

 

[tarheel0910]

In no way have I ever suggested that we can stop this from happening. Not everyone with mental health issues can be helped.

I fail to see a distinction between people who are "just evil" and those who are mentally ill enough to slaughter innocents, other than semantics.

If it's not mental illness, what is it?

Mental illness hits close to home for me, so we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't want this to devolve into an unproductive conversation due to my personal experience.

 

[notashelbyfan]

When I saw the breaking news yesterday afternoon, I was tempted to start a thread here, but knew what it would devolve into, so I deferred.

Look, I don't want anyone to have their freaking guns taken away, and honestly, I don't know what the optimal solution is... but something has got to be done! I'm so ****ing sick of hearing politicians offer their thoughts and prayers every time this happens, and then go stick their head in a damn hole or take more NRA contributions and tell us how it's too early to talk about this after yet another tragedy. This is why I pretty much can't stand all politicians - they are all full of shit. I'm an equal opportunity hater - both sides. So, get off your asses and get something done dammit!

I will humor you, let's ban ar-15's and take them away now how are you going to do it?

Let say you can make people stop making them what do you do about the ones that are already out?

So you put it on the news to tell everyone to bring them on a certain date and turn them in only the law abiding people are going to do this and some of the law abiding people are going to say the hell with you your not getting mine. Well those you are never going to know about because those people don't break the law with guns and the criminals are going not turn theirs in because they are criminals and that's what they do and when you here about another one it is going to be because he has shot up something taking the AR-15'S won't do shit but punish good people, and haven't stopped anything.

I don't know the answer but that isn't it!

 

[gunslingerdick]

Mental illness hits close to home for me, so we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't want this to devolve into an unproductive conversation due to my personal experience.

I'm not in any way hostile or upset and I have no intentions in coming at you for your perspective. I'm simply asking, if you wouldn't characterize all these offenders as "mentally ill", what are the other options? Just angry? Bored? Overly excited?

 

[TarHeelMark]

At least this loser didn’t kill himself like so many of these cowards. He needs to stand for his crime, and deserves appropriate punishment for it (IMO, death penalty). Not that it will deter others. The dudes lawyer will probably claim that he is mentally ill anyway...

 

[nctransplant]

Today's Family
Social Media
Guns
Video Games

Only one of these is an inanimate object that people blame for this violence.

 

[notashelbyfan]

I know this POV wore out but if laws stopped crime why do we have murders, rape, drugs, robbery, DWI, speeding, bank fraud, child molesters or pipe bombs?

We have a humanity problem!

 

[gunslingerdick]

At least this loser didn’t kill himself like so many of these cowards. He needs to stand for his crime, and deserves appropriate punishment for it (IMO, death penalty). Not that it will deter others. The dudes lawyer will probably claim that he is mentally ill anyway...

So what? He'll go to jail, be raped and beaten in jail for years to come and then he'll die after we've spent millions of dollars "rehabilitating" him. Nothing will change. Of course he'll never commit another crime, but for every one we lock up or kill, there are 10 waiting in the wings.

This isn't a gun problem. This isn't a mental health problem. This is humanity.

 

[notashelbyfan]

At least this loser didn’t kill himself like so many of these cowards. He needs to stand for his crime, and deserves appropriate punishment for it (IMO, death penalty). Not that it will deter others. The dudes lawyer will probably claim that he is mentally ill anyway...

Hell anyone that shoots up a school and murders people is mentally ill that's not an excuse it's the truth.

 

[heelbent]

18 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS SINCE JAN. 1, 2018. Everytown for Gun Safety says this is the 18th school shooting in 2018 -- which includes shootings where guns were fired accidentally and no one was injured, suicides, and those near campus grounds. Three were in Texas. including one where a teen at Italy High School shot and wounded a girl over a breakup. There have been more than 300 school shootings since 2013. That's an average of one per week.

 

[gunslingerdick]

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bullet-proof-backpack-shield.html

If you had told me 25 years ago that one day kids will wear bulletproof backpacks to school, I would have thought you were crazy.

 

[Raising Heel]

Be careful with that thought. Not all of them are mentally ill and saying something like that creates a stigma about mentally ill people. Many of these people do have issues, but some are just good old fashion evil.

I'm not in any way hostile or upset and I have no intentions in coming at you for your perspective. I'm simply asking, if you wouldn't characterize all these offenders as "mentally ill", what are the other options? Just angry? Bored? Overly excited?

GSD and I have the same question. Neither of us are suggesting that mentally ill people are predisposed to violence, but rather that anyone who commits this kind of atrocity is mentally unwell. This is your chance to help remove inaccurate stigmas.

 

[gteeitup]

the fla gov just said “someone that is mentally ill should not own a gun”...so now that we’ve crossed that line, again, let’s hope the potus doesn’t walk back.

 

[notashelbyfan]

the fla gov just said “someone that is mentally ill should not own a gun”...so now that we’ve crossed that line, again, let’s hope the potus doesn’t walk back.

Most of the time you don't know someone is mentally ill until they shoot up a school.

So now what do we do?

As long as people have hate in their hearts we will always have these problems!

 

[nctransplant]

So this guy was reported to the FBI months ago.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...-reported-to-fbi-months-ago-vlogger-says.html

 

[heelbent]

So this guy was reported to the FBI months ago.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/1...-reported-to-fbi-months-ago-vlogger-says.html

They were too busy chasing ghosts

 

[heelbent]

 

[heelbent]

 

[gteeitup]

Most of the time you don't know someone is mentally ill until they shoot up a school.

So now what do we do?

As long as people have hate in their hearts we will always have these problems!

but if you do know, shouldn’t legislation be in place to prevent the purchase and ownership of guns?

 

[nctransplant]

but if you do know, shouldn’t legislation be in place to prevent the purchase and ownership of guns?

Not trying to be cute here but how would you know someone is mentally ill? Do they carry a card, go in a data base(HIPPA)?

 

[strummingram]

View embedded media

The guns are basically the same, even if you go back 200+ years. The guns do the same thing now that they did when they were invented. The damage they can do has increased, but I don't believe that is the culprit, or the reason, these kinds of tragedies occur more frequently. It may affect the body counts, but I don't think that's the real concern. The guns are not to blame. Access to guns by certain people are a factor, but that's not the catalyst or the foundation for this, in my opinion.


But, that sheriff even said "... enamored by the school shooting culture." There's a pretty good scent to put the dogs on, to start with. Our culture glorifies violence and war and discontent of all sorts. It glorifies it, and acts-it-out, and, more importantly, rewards it. That will come back to manifest itself in ways that we didn't expect- like school shootings. I'd say the solution is to reverse that culture that glorifies and rewards those actions. We reap what we sow.

 

[gteeitup]

Not trying to be cute here but how would you know someone is mentally ill? Do they carry a card, go in a data base(HIPPA)?

very valid question...i have experience with this, as i have been a guardian and conservator appointed by a court before...it would have to be documented, of course.

 

[nctransplant]

very valid question...i have experience with this, as i have been a guardian and conservator appointed by a court before...it would have to be documented, of course.

I have absolutely no issue with thorough background checks but where is the line drawn for mental illness? If you are prescribe prozak for depression, you're on the list, bipolar but medicated? Where is the line? Also if there is a database sooner or later it will be hacked and information will be out there for all to see.

I don't have an answer either other than what I have suggested previously.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I'm familiar with this pic/story. Seen it many times and I think it can move this conversation along. Thanks for poasting.

Obviously, I recognize that we could never allow juniors and seniors in high school to go out to their cars and get their weapons and guard the doors between classes. Let's talk about why that can't happen today. Who wants to take a stab at that?

 

[notashelbyfan]

but if you do know, shouldn’t legislation be in place to prevent the purchase and ownership of guns?

I agree but how do you know?

 

[heelbent]

I'm familiar with this pic/story. Seen it many times and I think it can move this conversation along. Thanks for poasting.

Obviously, I recognize that we could never allow juniors and seniors in high school to go out to their cars and get their weapons and guard the doors between classes. Let's talk about why that can't happen today. Who wants to take a stab at that?

The same reasons Jrs. and Srs. don't drive the buses anymore.

 

[gunslingerdick]

The same reasons Jrs. and Srs. don't drive the buses anymore.

Why?

 

[heelbent]

Why?

Lol, you want a list? I drove a bus when I was a Jr/Sr...that should be enough reason to never do it again.

Seriously...kids today, for the most part, simply aren't mature enough to handle that responsibility, IMO. And I'm talking about guns at school or driving the buses.

 

[gteeitup]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says

 

[gunslingerdick]

Lol, you want a list? I drove a bus when I was a Jr/Sr...that should be enough reason to never do it again.

Seriously...kids today, for the most part, simply aren't mature enough to handle that responsibility, IMO. And I'm talking about guns at school or driving the buses.

Now we're getting somewhere. Why aren't kids today as mature as when you and I were younger?

 

[BillyL]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says

WOW . . a wannabe good old boy Trumpkin that fell in with the White Supremacists and it corrupted, brainwashed and motivated his feeble little mind.

Wore a MAGA hat, a member of a white nationalist group, and a violent thug.

Who woulda thunk it . .

 

[BillyL]

Prolly a good thing this dude wasn't an illegal immigrant huh . .? If he was, then 45 would be out front and center declaring how this country would need his wall and they're rapists and killers.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Prolly a good thing this dude wasn't an illegal immigrant huh . .? If he was, then 45 would be out front and center declaring how this country would need his wall and they're rapists and killers.

We get it, man. You dislike Trump. I understand that completely. I just don’t feel this is the thread for repeatedly stating it.

 

[BillyL]

We get it, man. You dislike Trump. I understand that completely. I just don’t feel this is the thread for repeatedly stating it.

It's my thread right . . ? I'll decide what direction this goes . . and btw, it isn't a bus driver thread.

I'm speaking to GTeeItUp when it comes to 45 . . I unnerstand you're a Trumpkin too. I'm not . .

 

[strummingram]

We get it, man. You dislike Trump. I understand that completely. I just don’t feel this is the thread for repeatedly stating it.

I don't think Billy "hates Trump" as much as he's frustrated and bothered by the way the man's presence in our political and social discussions is, apparently, enabling these types of people to feel validated and, therefore, more likely to act-out their prejudices in violent ways.

 

[nctransplant]

I don't think Billy "hates Trump" as much as he's frustrated and bothered by the way the man's presence in our political and social discussions is, apparently, enabling these types of people to feel validated and, therefore, more likely to act-out their prejudices in violent ways.

How has Trump's presidency influenced more violence than we've had the last 10 years? This shits been going on for years now, there is no logical way you can really pin this on Trump.
Were the shootings in Sandy Hook, Aurora, Co., Florida night club, and in California Trumps fault too?

 

[gteeitup]

Prolly a good thing this dude wasn't an illegal immigrant huh . .? If he was, then 45 would be out front and center declaring how this country would need his wall and they're rapists and killers.

fact

 

[BillyL]

I don't think Billy "hates Trump" as much as he's frustrated and bothered by the way the man's presence in our political and social discussions is, apparently, enabling these types of people to feel validated and, therefore, more likely to act-out their prejudices in violent ways.

It's a bit of both . . I despise this man, make no bones about it, Eddie.

I personally think he is a traitorous, treasonous **** . . and I 100% believe that Special Counsel Mueller will validate my thoughts.

Bannon invoked 'executive privilege' in today's congressional hearings, saying that the White House has asked him to do so.

LOL @ that BS.